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daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 02:39 PM
I have been tinkering with illusionists since the E6 competition based on the gnome paragon, and I stumbled upon some weird synergies that yall might like to see. For all of these, the 3rd level Sonorous Hum (Spell Compendium, p. 196) spell is probably necessary, as well as the chains of disbelief ACF from UA.

Assume that the illusionist in question is 6th level.

Silent image and caster level boosters
Cormanthyran Moon Magic (Lost Empires of Faerun, p. 7)When you cast a spell under moonlight, your effective caster level increases by 2.

Make an illusionary moon and fail your check to disbelieve and enjoy +2 caster levels.

Storm Magic (Frostburn, p. 50) [General] All spells you cast while you are affected by a storm (either natural or magical) manifest at +1 caster level.

Make an illusory storm on your square and enjoy +1 caster level.

Ship's Mage (Stormwrack, p. 93) Add +1 to the caster level of all spells cast while you are aboard a ship that is familiar to you.

blow a bunch of spells to get familiar with your illusory ship. You may need a wand of remove fatigue to deal with the concentration for weeks on end, or be a creature that doesn't need sleep (necropolitan?) +1 caster level

Silent image and wierd things

Scourge of the Seas (Stormwrack, p. 93) You can make an Intimidate check to daunt the captain of another ship who can see you or your distinctive colors: If you succeed on the Intimidate check, the target is frightened for as long as it remains able to see you.

cast a silent image of you and your opponent in different small ships, with companion illusory captain hats for you and your opponent, and with the ships being in water where the ground is and intimidate away! You are only one demoralization away from Panic!

Major Image and temperature

Major image allows for thermal illusions!

Snowcasting, Frozen magic: In areas of extreme cold (below -20° F), cold spells cast by you manifest at caster level +2.

Make your major image spell affect the temperature all the way down to -40. Gain +2 caster levels casting the strange illusion [cold] spells. Plus you get the benefits of this.

Extreme cold (below –20° F) deals 1d6 points of lethal damage per minute (no save). In addition, a character must make a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Those wearing metal armor or coming into
contact with very cold metal are affected as if by a chill metal spell.

You can take frostfell prodigy to get a few more first level spell slots, if you can use spell slots unprepared for things, like arcane strike or whatnot.

But that's not all. You can use major image for heat (thermal illusions)

Extreme Heat: In this temperature band, unprotected characters take 1d6 points of lethal damage per 10 minutes (no save). In addition, unprotected characters must make successful Fortitude saving throws (DC 15, +1 per previous check) every 10 minutes or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Characters wearing heavy clothing or any kind of armor take–4 penalties on their saves. In addition, those wearing metal armor or coming into contact with very hot metal are affected as if by a heat metal spell (which lasts as long as the character remains in the area of extreme heat). A character must have protection level 3 or higher to be protected against extreme heat. Level 2 is considered partial protection, and such characters take damage and make saving throws once per hour instead of once per 10 minutes. Level 1 provides no protection."

And that isn't even the hottest that your illusion can go. It can also do this, DM pending:


Burning Heat: At some point, increasing temperatures push past even unearthly heat and graduate to actual burning—when material objects catch fire spontaneously due to the heat...In a region in this temperature band (also known as a fi redominant area), characters take 3d10 points of fire damage per round. In addition, those wearing metal armor or coming into contact with very hot metal are affected as if by a heat metal spell (which lasts as long as the character remains in the area of burning heat). Generally, nonsupernatural methods of protection against heat offer no protection in areas of burning heat, and various levels of heat protection are meaningless if a creature is on fi re unless it is immune or resistant to fire.

What does it mean to believe that you're on fire?

Minor image + sand feats

Sand snare: If you successfully trip an opponent in any area of ash, dust, loose earth, or sand that is at least 1 inch deep, that opponent must take a fullround action to stand during the round after being tripped. Following that round, the target can get to his feet with a move action (as normal). The opponent still provokes attacks of opportunity while attempting to stand, as normal

Make an illusion of sand 1inch deep anywhere that you need to. And trip your opponent. Balagarn's Iron Horn helps you trip a bunch of people:


You create a deep, resonant vibration that can shake creatures off their feet as if they were being tripped. Make a single Strength check as if your Strength were 20. Creatures in the area make individual opposed Dexterity or Strength checks against your roll. Those who fail are tripped and fall prone.

Add exploding spell to balagarns horn to make them hurt some more. And you can combine that sand with a cormathyan moon and stuff.



Any other image spells + feat combinations that produce crazy effects that you can think of?

Venger
2018-03-04, 02:59 PM
I don't know if these things work. After all, if you make an illusion of a cliff and someone fails their save, they don't take falling damage, so I'm not sure they'd take physical lethal damage from fake temperature, unless there's a rule I'm missing.

I do love the mindset for these. A lower effort way for you to get the ship's mage trick is for you to make your shoes into tiny boats (non-illusorily). That way you'd be on them and familiar with them.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 03:39 PM
I don't know if these things work. After all, if you make an illusion of a cliff and someone fails their save, they don't take falling damage, so I'm not sure they'd take physical lethal damage from fake temperature, unless there's a rule I'm missing.

I do love the mindset for these. A lower effort way for you to get the ship's mage trick is for you to make your shoes into tiny boats (non-illusorily). That way you'd be on them and familiar with them.

Oh. I totally agree. Especially when you begin looking at the hot temperature conditions. As DM, I would rule all the temperature damage as non-lethal temporary damage and if you knock them below the damage cap they would get another save to disbelieve. Probably won't work against a human bard with telefirin song heightening major image to 9th...

noce
2018-03-04, 03:53 PM
All of this clearly doesn't work.

Rules don't say "when you believe you're under moonlight" or "when you pretend to believe that you're under moonlight".
Rules say "when you ARE under moonlight", and if you pretend to believe you are, you still ARE NOT.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 03:55 PM
All of this clearly doesn't work.

Rules don't say "when you believe you're under moonlight" or "when you pretend to believe that you're under moonlight".
Rules say "when you ARE under moonlight", and if you pretend to believe you are, you still ARE NOT.

so you disagree with that one and disregarded the others?

major image is a thermal illusion. The rules for that environment are spread across multiple books.

Stormcasting absolutely does work, because the illusionary storm is literally magical storm.

Venger
2018-03-04, 03:55 PM
ship's mage and scourge of the seas work, just have a really tiny ship like roller skates.

noce
2018-03-04, 04:08 PM
so you disagree with that one and disregarded the others?

major image is a thermal illusion. The rules for that environment are spread across multiple books.

Stormcasting absolutely does work, because the illusionary storm is literally magical storm.

I disagree that a magical illusion of a storm is a magical storm.
A magical storm is magical in nature, but magical raindrops still wet your clothes.
The illusion of a storm does not wet your clothes, even if you pretend to believe it does.
Come on.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 04:12 PM
I disagree that a magical illusion of a storm is a magical storm.
A magical storm is magical in nature, but magical raindrops still wet your clothes.
The illusion of a storm does not wet your clothes, even if you pretend to believe it does.
Come on.

a storm that doesn't make you wet sure seems magical to me.

Daefos
2018-03-04, 04:51 PM
a storm that doesn't make you wet sure seems magical to me.

Unfortunately, all you have is an illusion of a magical storm.

That's the thing: barring certain (Shadow) spells, illusions are not real. They're holograms. Figments. Mirages. They don't exist. No amount of self-denial or gullibility is going to allow an illusion of magical weather to activate abilities that require actual magical weather. At best, you could trick someone into thinking their ability is active when it really isn't.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 04:53 PM
Unfortunately, all you have is an illusion of a magical storm.

That's the thing: barring certain (Shadow) spells, illusions are not real. They're holograms. Figments. Mirages. They don't exist. No amount of self-denial or gullibility is going to allow an illusion of magical weather to activate abilities that require actual magical weather. At best, you could trick someone into thinking their ability is active when it really isn't.

So an illusionary storm isn't a magical storm, because it's an illusion?

Daefos
2018-03-04, 04:59 PM
So an illusionary storm isn't a magical storm, because it's an illusion?

Correct. An illusion of a bugbear isn't really a bugbear. An illusion of a magical storm isn't really a magical storm. An illusion of anything isn't really that thing.

It is a "storm" caused by a magical effect, but that does not make it a "magical storm". No more than a Tiefling counts as a fiend just because you can describe it as an evil Outsider. D&D magic does not operate on semantics.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 05:01 PM
Correct. An illusion of a bugbear isn't really a bugbear. An illusion of a magical storm isn't really a magical storm. An illusion of anything isn't really that thing.

It is a "storm" caused by a magical effect, but that does not make it a "magical storm". No more than a Tiefling counts as a fiend just because you can describe it as an evil Outsider. D&D magic does not operate on semantics.

It's sure sounding like it does.

How do you get an illusionary storm without magic?

Daefos
2018-03-04, 05:04 PM
It's sure sounding like it does.

How do you get an illusionary storm without magic?

Let's flip this around. If I made an illusion of a sword, does it overcome DR/magic? After all, it's a magic sword.

noce
2018-03-04, 05:18 PM
Another example.

A wolf is a wolf.
If I use Summon Monster to summon a wolf, I get a "magical" wolf.
If I use Silent Image to create the illusion of a wolf, I do not get a wolf at all, it's just the illusion of a wolf.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 05:59 PM
Let's flip this around. If I made an illusion of a sword, does it overcome DR/magic? After all, it's a magic sword.

yes it does overcome it. But it doesn't deal damage. because it's an illusion.

noce
2018-03-04, 06:06 PM
yes it does overcome it. But it doesn't deal damage. because it's an illusion.

:confused:

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-04, 06:21 PM
:confused:

If you're a shadowcraft mage and you make the illusory sword 10%-120% real, it can penetrate DR/magic, no?

Aimeryan
2018-03-04, 06:34 PM
I agree with the others; those feats based on actually being affected by the phenomenon do not work just because you believe you are. Illusions are not real, that is sort of the point. Shadow Conjuration however...

Ship's Mage works as others have said - just be aboard a ship you are familiar with. That could be a tiny flying ship (akin to a magic carpet), ship-footwear, etc. Illusions not so much, though.

The Scourge of the Seas is also easy to non-illusion; just carry around tiny little ships and any time you want to do this just gift one of them to your opponent - he is now the captain of a ship. Fly your colours and proceed. Again though, illusions would not work as he is not actually the captain of a ship (the illusion does not exist, ergo you can't actually be a captain of something non-existent - you just believe you are).

RoboEmperor
2018-03-05, 02:38 AM
If you're a shadowcraft mage and you make the illusory sword 10%-120% real, it can penetrate DR/magic, no?

No it cannot. You use shadow materials to make a quasi-real sword, but it is not magical. It's mundane. Your definition of magical and d&d's definition of magical are two different things despite using the same word.

Segev
2018-03-05, 02:59 PM
I like the creativity here, though I agree that it's not convincing that it works as advertised. I had a thread over in 5e regarding illusionist tricks you could perform there. I doubt they translate too well to 3e, but if people want to draw inspiration and see what they can come up with, I leave the link here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477658-Illusionist-Tricks).

A big part of the difficulty is that they rely heavily on the 5e Illusionists' 6th level ability to alter the properties of their illusions.

Troacctid
2018-03-06, 02:16 PM
You can't use a figment to produce real effects.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
A thermal illusion only provides the illusion of heat; it doesn't actually increase the temperature. An illusion of a storm is not a real storm. Etc.

You need a shadow spell, not a figment. The shadow subschool creates effects that are partially real and would therefore potentially be able to work the way you want.