Crunch that incentivizes fluff?

[Rogthnor]

I was reading through the spells recently in 3.5, and I noticed this line in the teleport spell. "Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible". I really like this because it gives DMs an excuse for why the villain had their bade inside a volcano, or under a waterfall or whatever. It incentivizes building cool locations.

My question is, has anybody as encountered any crunch which incentivizes cool and interesting behavior/play/setting construction.

[BowStreetRunner]

I think the Fireball spell always handled fire-based magic better than a lot of other fire spells. "The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze." It mentions unattended objects taking damage. It also goes so far as to mention the effect had the sound of a 'low roar' and clarifies that the blast 'creates almost no pressure' making clear this isn't like a gas explosion knocking everything flat. It has that really nice explanation of what happens if you try to send it through a narrow opening and the result of an early impact. Altogether, it covers a lot of bases.

Too many other spells you end up without this kind of language and when someone asks why they don't start fires at the location or something like that you have to answer 'because it's just a mechanic'.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think the Fireball spell always handled fire-based magic better than a lot of other fire spells. [...] Altogether, it covers a lot of bases.
Now that you mention it, I totally agree, the writeup is pretty complete (especially for how concise it is). It's almost as if fireball got written up good, and then other fire spells were more or less assumed to work the same way (without actually getting that rules text)... though I'm probably reading too much into it at that point.


I like the various "displays" that psionic powers produce; they're a whole lot better for fluff hooks than the "material components" (5 gp, 2 lb, write-down-once-and-forget-about-it) you get with arcane spells. I suppose that's a problem with component pouches, but those aside, I don't see what "25 000 gp in diamonds" has to do with resurrective magic--it's just a slightly fancier price tag. On the other hand, fireball's components--guano and sulphur--are pretty suggestive (being gunpowder ingredients, with possible tie-ins with chemistry and gunpowder technology), so that's another point for fireball.

[Uncle Pine]

A runesmith learns to prepare his arcane spells as runes inscribed on solid objects (usually small tablets of stone, but other objects are possible). He prepares spells as normal, except that instead of readying the spells in his mind, he readies them in the form of runes.
This allows a runesmith to inscribe his or her prepared spells on small stone tablets, maybe even fitting them inside a shield sheath (RoS 158) for easy access, and then unleash a barrage of magical energy and summoned creatures by drawing tablets as needed.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/c9/e3/3fc9e3c4837dfd387864cd9f65fd94eb.jpg

[JNAProductions]

This allows a runesmith to inscribe his or her prepared spells on small stone tablets, maybe even fitting them inside a shield sheath (RoS 158) for easy access, and then unleash a barrage of magical energy and summoned creatures by drawing tablets as needed.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/c9/e3/3fc9e3c4837dfd387864cd9f65fd94eb.jpg

Oh my gosh, I am still laughing. Thank you!

[Troacctid]

I like that the rules for character rebuilds have you go on a quest to a specific location with the power to reshape destinies.

A lot of prestige classes have interesting story hooks attached to them. Usually in the prerequisites, stuff like defeating a hippo in single combat, but sometimes in the class features too. One of my pet classes is Sapphire Hierarch, which gives you the ability to cast Commune, but only while in the presence of the Sapphire Eidolon, so there's a built-in quest hook.

[ryu]

Now that you mention it, I totally agree, the writeup is pretty complete (especially for how concise it is). It's almost as if fireball got written up good, and then other fire spells were more or less assumed to work the same way (without actually getting that rules text)... though I'm probably reading too much into it at that point.


I like the various "displays" that psionic powers produce; they're a whole lot better for fluff hooks than the "material components" (5 gp, 2 lb, write-down-once-and-forget-about-it) you get with arcane spells. I suppose that's a problem with component pouches, but those aside, I don't see what "25 000 gp in diamonds" has to do with resurrective magic--it's just a slightly fancier price tag. On the other hand, fireball's components--guano and sulphur--are pretty suggestive (being gunpowder ingredients, with possible tie-ins with chemistry and gunpowder technology), so that's another point for fireball.

Actually the way spell component pouches work encourages the properly cautious player to take like ten or so of them. If you only have one pouch any yahoo with a lucky shot and some planning can kill most of your spellcasting unless you took eschew material components. It also encourages flowing clothing with layers such that you can mess with the ability to target individual items and this helps teach proper magic item defense by denying the ability to see them with non-magical clothing layers. What did you think wizards would wear hooded bathrobes for no reason? Clearly to block vision on their various kerjiggers.

[Necroticplague]

Hellfire Warlock has a mechanic where you can boost yourself in exchange for a little CON damage. The two most common ways around this are both fairly flavorful ways to get around that problem in character as well.
1.Binding Neberius. If you're a Hellfire Warlock, you clearly know a thing or two about making pacts with things beyond you. So you make another one to cover the cost of the first, though this one comes with further complicating restrictions.
2. Shaping Strongheart Vest. The nature of the pact requires you to sacrifice your living vitality. It fails, however, to have to be from your own body, as long as it's yours. You've simply found a way to abuse that loophole in your own pact.

[Rogthnor]

Actually the way spell component pouches work encourages the properly cautious player to take like ten or so of them. If you only have one pouch any yahoo with a lucky shot and some planning can kill most of your spellcasting unless you took eschew material components. It also encourages flowing clothing with layers such that you can mess with the ability to target individual items and this helps teach proper magic item defense by denying the ability to see them with non-magical clothing layers. What did you think wizards would wear hooded bathrobes for no reason? Clearly to block vision on their various kerjiggers.

I really like this ome because it means that wizards are acting like wizards. Long flowing robes, carrying around a ton of knick knacks of arcane uses, etc. I can just see Gandalf pawing around iin his cloak looking for a piece of candy to give a kid, but he keeps pulling out metal rods and spider webs and stuff.

[Fizban]

This allows a runesmith to inscribe his or her prepared spells on small stone tablets, maybe even fitting them inside a shield sheath (RoS 158) for easy access, and then unleash a barrage of magical energy and summoned creatures by drawing tablets as needed.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/c9/e3/3fc9e3c4837dfd387864cd9f65fd94eb.jpg
If I had roommates they would be yelling at me, freakin' floored.


Edit: speaking of spell component pouches- Since I prefer sorcerers, and sorcerers have a very limited number of spells known, I often make a point of writing down exactly what is actually in my spell component pouch. Knowing what's in the mysterious bag means I know what kind of mysterious junk my character is regularly stocking up on, what people will find if they rifle through his stuff, what spells I can't cast without the pouch and what stuff can easily be scrounged up.

Sure, everyone knows spell components are a "joke," but that's because they don't take them seriously. It's a huge well of detail you can draw from, and it wouldn't take much to make it more of an important mechanic as well. No one ever seems to consider the fact that you need a hand to hold the components. . . but you also need a hand to make the somatic components. Presumably they assume that one hand does both, but nothing in the spellcasting section actually says it works that way. There's a whole ream of spells that ought to be defined as effectively two-handed, which introduces more tactical problems with carrying a weapon, shield, or say. . . Metamagic Rod? All of which are conveniently ignored.

And that's without so much as a house rule- if you axe the "free component preparation" rule, you can make the whole class of spells into effectively full round action casting times unless you have Quick Draw or go around visibly armed. Eschew Materials becomes way more important when it's saving you a hand and maybe even an action, but with a move action draw the Eschew won't do the job all on it's own, and you need two feats to reach the usual assumption of completely unfettered standard action spellcasting with only a single open hand.

All of which makes a clear line between a battle-mage who's ready to sling death and get out of dodge at a moment's notice, and a city mage who's capable of casting lethal spells. . . once they drop what they're doing, get out the stuff, and stand there and cast it.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I really like this ome because it means that wizards are acting like wizards. Long flowing robes, carrying around a ton of knick knacks of arcane uses, etc. I can just see Gandalf pawing around iin his cloak looking for a piece of candy to give a kid, but he keeps pulling out metal rods and spider webs and stuff.
Here's the thing: those flowing robes are just as relevant for every other magic item user. There are no penalties for impractical clothes, so everyone should be hiding all their possessions under layers of cloth just thick enough to block LoE--yes, thin spider silk is the material of choice for the dispel-conscious adventurer. I mean, it's great if your world encourages wizardy wizards, but less so if it also encourages wizardy fighters and wizardy rogues and wizardy barbarians, all swathed in the finest scraped silk veils from head to toe, leaving nothing to the imagination... then again, maybe that's preferable. Hmmm...

[ryu]

Here's the thing: those flowing robes are just as relevant for every other magic item user. There are no penalties for impractical clothes, so everyone should be hiding all their possessions under layers of cloth just thick enough to block LoE--yes, thin spider silk is the material of choice for the dispel-conscious adventurer. I mean, it's great if your world encourages wizardy wizards, but less so if it also encourages wizardy fighters and wizardy rogues and wizardy barbarians, all swathed in the finest scraped silk veils from head to toe, leaving nothing to the imagination... then again, maybe that's preferable. Hmmm...

Nonsense. When the rules that made this intelligent the only fully Int based class was wizards with possible side-notes in rogues and bards for skill related purposes. Rogues ALSO have a trope of hiding things in their clothes, as do thieving bards. It's proper roleplaying for people with high Int in other words. It's not just about line of effect either. Blocking SIGHT to your items almost makes it harder to identify them which may come in handy if you're doing anything unorthodox, like that time I had multiple pieces of every kind of clothing that could feasibly take a slot with anything not magic buffed with false auras. Also false auras on the magic items. Also some of the non-magic items enchanted invisible to serve as better decoys.

And suddenly, ladies and gentlemen, we full Alastor Moody. Got a problem with it? No? Good. CONSTANT VIGILANCE!

[Zaq]

There's always the various influences imposed by vestiges with which one has made a poor pact.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, since joining the Paragnostic Assembly and climbing the ranks therein can give you a really big bonus to Truespeak (which is something to be treasured when possible and which is something that is otherwise pretty rare), one would expect that a disproportionately large percentage of the world's Truenamers would be card-carrying members of the Paragnostic Assembly. There's some fun to be had with that for a creative GM.

[Kelb_Panthera]

For a certain value of "cool" and for completeness sake, the paladin's code of conduct kinda leaps to mind. Just sayin'.

[Braininthejar2]

I don't see what "25 000 gp in diamonds" has to do with resurrective magic--it's just a slightly fancier price tag.

That's the whole point. A price tag that is prohibitive to 99% people.

Resurrection is a miracle - and miracles would not be miracles if they were for everyone.

[BowStreetRunner]

That's the whole point. A price tag that is prohibitive to 99% people.

Resurrection is a miracle - and miracles would not be miracles if they were for everyone.
Yeah, but it's so much more flavorful when you need a bunch of exotic stuff like Phoenix feathers and tears from a Unicorn. Saying you just need diamonds is about as flavorful as saying you need a stack of 320,000 bearer bonds from the Church of Miracles'R'Us.

[Braininthejar2]

Speaking of diamonds.

It recently occurred to me, that most spells can't meaningfully create precious metals.

But why would that be so? Doesn't it sound like an artificial limitation? How would magic know what is a precious metal?

And then I got it. It's the other way round. In D&D, precious metals are precious, because you can't just make them with magic.

[Zaq]

How would magic know what is a precious metal?

To be fair, this is 3.x we're talking about. Magic knows everything.

[Uncle Pine]

Speaking of diamonds.

It recently occurred to me, that most spells can't meaningfully create precious metals.

But why would that be so? Doesn't it sound like an artificial limitation? How would magic know what is a precious metal?

And then I got it. It's the other way round. In D&D, precious metals are precious, because you can't just make them with magic.

It's an inherent quality: how could magic know that creatures with "magic resistance" are resistant to it? Because when you try to affect them with a spell it could fizzle.

[Fizban]

Yeah, but it's so much more flavorful when you need a bunch of exotic stuff like Phoenix feathers and tears from a Unicorn. Saying you just need diamonds is about as flavorful as saying you need a stack of 320,000 bearer bonds from the Church of Miracles'R'Us.
A significant part of that is because diamonds are being treated as common, the assumption that you can just go and convert 25,000gp worth of gold into diamonds and be done with it.

Phoenix feathers and bear butts are only "rare" because they haven't had price tags attached- if they were in half a dozen 1st party published spells, they wouldn't be interesting either. Except phoenix feathers actually are priced, and much cheaper than diamonds, so you'd need to say XYZgp of phoenix feathers and be right back where you started.

Conversely, if all the diamonds in the realm currently reside within the king's crown, then obtaining 25,000gp worth of diamonds is going to be a pretty epic quest.

[BowStreetRunner]

A significant part of that is because diamonds are being treated as common, the assumption that you can just go and convert 25,000gp worth of gold into diamonds and be done with it.

Phoenix feathers and bear butts are only "rare" because they haven't had price tags attached- if they were in half a dozen 1st party published spells, they wouldn't be interesting either. Except phoenix feathers actually are priced, and much cheaper than diamonds, so you'd need to say XYZgp of phoenix feathers and be right back where you started.

Conversely, if all the diamonds in the realm currently reside within the king's crown, then obtaining 25,000gp worth of diamonds is going to be a pretty epic quest.

For me it's less a matter of rarity and more a matter of having some property theoretically associated with the spell. Back in 1st edition I recall there being a list of gemstones and the properties associated with each. If they are arguing that diamond is something associated with life and rebirth, I could buy it. But if it's just chosen because it is rare and expensive, that's no better than just putting a gold piece value on it.

So if they instead state the caster needs to obtain 25,000 gp worth of phoenix feathers, that both creates a practical barrier to resurrection spamming and still keeps it flavorful.

[Fizban]

That's already implied by the spells? Diamonds are used in resurrection and restoration. Onyx is used for creating undead. Powdered silver to bless and ward off evil. Rubies seems to be related to force (Forcecage, Ruby Ray of Reversal). Mutliple gems used in Temporal Stasis and Symbol, but not exactly the same. There's no table straight in the book, but I never needed one to know someone was assigning those components with some aim at mystical mumbo jumbo, at least in the spells that bothered to do so, and I would be rather surprised if the given gems didn't line up with their old properties.

Sure, plenty of low-effort spells don't seem to care about spell components- see above re: most people consider them a joke (and some just hate them), but resurrection magic is the single hugest example of what magical fluff diamonds have in 3.5. They're not un-flavorful, being there is what gives them their default flavor. Come to think of it, I get more annoyed when people make a huge deal of fonts of holy water this and days long ritual that and arbitrary new component something else. The spells already have their flavor, a short ritual of a few minutes that requires the "pure" typified gem.

Of course it also helps that I was patterned on the original 3.0 phrasing, which clearly said "A" diamond, which is a heck of a lot more significant than 3.5's watered down "diamonds worth a total," clearly meant to remove doubts as to the expectations of PCs being able to cast the spell. By letting you go out and buy as many diamonds as necessary to meet the quota, rather than the more evocative single large gem.

[Malimar]

For a certain value of "cool" and for completeness sake, the paladin's code of conduct kinda leaps to mind. Just sayin'.
In that vein: clerics (and to a lesser extent paladins and crusaders and the like). Unless you're a cleric of an ideology (booooooring), the whole class inherently ties you to the setting fluff of a deity and a church.