Spreading caltrops and ball bearing in sight

[Belier]

Is it me or would they only make terrain difficult for ennemies if you spread those in their sight trying to escape. They just need to walk half speed on the terrain to avoid the effect so the bearings will spend them 20 feets to make 10 while the caltrops is only a measling half of it. I cannot see how they can be so great to escape like I read about it if the ennemies knows they are there and they can still dash to you while you can't because you used an action to spread it on the floor. I can see the surprise effect of caltrops or berings or both behind a door but other than that...Is there something I am missing?

[Tiadoppler]

If the enemies can see your trap, and aren't forced to run into it, then it's almost completely useless.

If you can hide it in any way (a smoke bomb and ball bearings in front of a door, a pile of caltrops on a trail covered with leaves) then enemies may actually hit the trap and be knocked prone/damaged and slowed

If you can prepare a larger area (entire rooms filled with ball bearings, and you can swing across on a rope, a courtyard filled with caltrops while you shoot down from the buildings and walls) then they can be used as traps or really delay some enemies.

If the enemy has to walk through the tunnel or doorway to get to you, you can slow them down a bit.


If you have superior action economy (a spell or ability that lets you dash the same turn as you spend an action) then you can keep moving at full speed while the enemy is delayed.




Caltrops and Ball Bearings are not things you should use for every battle. They're very situational pieces of equipment. They're not supposed to be an "I escape automatically" tool. If you throw a bag of caltrops on the ground in the middle of an open plain, the enemy will simply step around them.

[MaxWilson]

Is it me or would they only make terrain difficult for ennemies if you spread those in their sight trying to escape. They just need to walk half speed on the terrain to avoid the effect so the bearings will spend them 20 feets to make 10 while the caltrops is only a measling half of it. I cannot see how they can be so great to escape like I read about it if the ennemies knows they are there and they can still dash to you while you can't because you used an action to spread it on the floor. I can see the surprise effect of caltrops or berings or both behind a door but other than that...Is there something I am missing?

It's probably simplest and best for the game to just say enemies know exactly where the caltrops and/or ball bearings are unless specific countermeasures are taken to conceal them, and then restrict those countermeasures to preparation outside of combat. (E.g. if it takes a full minute and an Intelligence (Stealth) check to bury cantrops in loose earth and scatter leaves over them, such that detecting them requires a passive Perception higher than the Stealth roll, then you're not going to be burying them in the middle of a melee, although you might do it in the middle of a larg-ish battle or a spy-vs-spy war of stealth.)

Caltrops and ball bearings can still be useful even if the enemy knows exactly where they are, because an enemy is forced to slow to half speed to avoid the effect. (And remember that in 5E, speed is tracked on a turn-by-turn basis--you have to slow down for your whole turn, not just for a single square.) If a squad of orcs is charging you down a 10'-wide tunnel and your party has only one tank, you probably want the PC with the highest initiative to strew caltrops next to and possibly in front of the tank so the orcs can't just blow right past the tank (eating a single opportunity attack in the process) and attack the squishies in the back. Instead at least one orc is going to step on a caltrop and stop dead right next to the tank, plugging the hole.

[Belier]

And remember that in 5E, speed is tracked on a turn-by-turn basis--you have to slow down for your whole turn, not just for a single square.)

Thank you this is the knowledge I was lacking I will try to find it in my PHB.

Thank you also for the first reply I learned some concept too it's gonna be useful.

Ok then, let's say, I ready a ball bearing action, if an ennemy cross my location at high speed at 10 feet from me or less I will drop bearings on the floor. Since the bearings will be on his case after he got on it he will not have to go prone but he will need to stop there or make save vs the next location since he will be entering the space and be forced to do it at full speed. This is good knowledge.

[Armored Walrus]

If you have superior action economy (a spell or ability that lets you dash the same turn as you spend an action) then you can keep moving at full speed while the enemy is delayed.

Or a feature that lets you use an item as a bonus action. :)

Caltrops are more useful, IMO, if you can either prepare a larger area, or are in a 5' wide corridor. If you can strew them over 15', then the enemy has to choose between getting pelted by ranged atacks for a full turn, or go full movement and risk being stopped cold on a failed save, not to mention, once you're damaged by them once, your speed is reduced by 10' forever until you're healed.

That being said, I think hiding them somehow makes them a lot better. Have a party member cast Darkness or fog cloud and then start dropping caltrops inside it, for example.

[MaxWilson]

And remember that in 5E, speed is tracked on a turn-by-turn basis--you have to slow down for your whole turn, not just for a single square.)

Thank you this is the knowledge I was lacking I will try to find it in my PHB.

You have to read between the lines a little bit because a strict reading of 5E says that you can't reduce your speed at all unless you grapple another creature--speed is a movement budget, not a velocity:


Your Turn
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. Your speed— sometimes called your walking speed—is noted on your character sheet. The most common actions you can take are described in the “Actions” section.

Movement and Position
In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion, often using movement and position to gain the upper hand. On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here. Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you’re moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.

But that would make caltrops almost impossible to evade, because


A creature moving through the area at half speed doesn't need to make the saving throw.

and yet simply slowing down doesn't change the "speed" written in your character sheet. A reasonable DM ruling is to allow you to voluntarily reduce your speed for a round--but if you slow down to pass the caltrops but then wind up using up all of your movement anyway, your "speed" wasn't really reduced at all this turn, and therefore you must have been moving at full tilt the whole time. Only if you spend only half of your movement on that turn can you meaningfully claim to be reducing your "speed," as 5E defines it.

Similar logic applies to spells like Spirit Guardians which alter the "speed" of enemies affected by them. It's not just like difficult terrain, which doubles movement costs for the affected area--Spirit Guardians actually reduces your Speed, and if that puts you over budget for the turn then you have to stop dead in your tracks. (A given DM could rule differently but it seems clear, at least to me, that 5E is making a deliberate distinction here between halving speed and doubling movement costs.)

[Armored Walrus]

Ok then, let's say, I ready a ball bearing action, if an ennemy cross my location at high speed at 10 feet from me or less I will drop bearings on the floor. Since the bearings will be on his case after he got on it he will not have to go prone but he will need to stop there or make save vs the next location since he will be entering the space and be forced to do it at full speed. This is good knowledge.

You're in rulings territory here rather than rules, but I like your thinking. If a player of mine readied that action, i'd probably just force the saving throw on the enemy.

[MaxWilson]

Or a feature that lets you use an item as a bonus action. :)

Caltrops are more useful, IMO, if you can either prepare a larger area, or are in a 5' wide corridor. If you can strew them over 15', then the enemy has to choose between getting pelted by ranged atacks for a full turn, or go full movement and risk being stopped cold on a failed save, not to mention, once you're damaged by them once, your speed is reduced by 10' forever until you're healed.

That being said, I think hiding them somehow makes them a lot better. Have a party member cast Darkness or fog cloud and then start dropping caltrops inside it, for example.

In a 15' wide corridor, they are still useful against Large creatures.

If you are prepared for fights in close terrain (caltrops, chokepoints + tanks with Sharpshooter/Spell Sniper support to shoot past the tanks) and open terrain (mounts, high mobility, Sharpshooter/Spell Sniper to peg enemies at long range) you're pretty well set for most types of battles, IMO. The only exception I can think of is broken terrain (jagged cliffs/walls like a labyrinth) against flying, burrowing, or wall-climbing enemies who can ignore the terrain constraints PCs themselves face and take shortcuts that effectively let them move faster and cut the PCs off.

[Armored Walrus]

In a 15' wide corridor, they are still useful against Large creatures.

I hadn't thought of that. Also not bad to have on hand if you're facing an enemy with the Pounce ability.

[Throne12]

I can't find any where. Saying a long jump takes up your full movement. So they can just jump over them then keep moving.

[Armored Walrus]

Jumping uses the same amount of movement as just running over the squares in question does. So if they have the movement, and have the jump distance, they can do just that.

You just have to drop them and hope your DM doesn't think of that ;)

[MaxWilson]

I can't find any where. Saying a long jump takes up your full movement. So they can just jump over them then keep moving.

Yes, I always forget about that part. If your enemy is smart enough to jump, then you have to either stick to putting caltrops/ball bearings in corners, or in difficult terrain (so the enemy risks landing prone), or use enough caltrops to cover its whole jumping distance (equal to Strength score), or camouflage them, or put the caltrops right in front of you in the hypothetical 5' corridor so that jumping over the caltrops is illegal (except for creatures two or more sizes different from yours, who can move through your square as if it were merely difficult terrain).

Same thing applies to certain spells like Evard's Black Tentacles and Spike Growth which could potentially be jumped over.