Can high-level Arcane Tricksters double-up on sneak attack?

[Deathtongue]

Here's the situation.

An Arcane Trickster gets to level 14, picks Haste for one of their spells. In combat, they cast it on themselves.

Using the extra Attack action, they sneak attack with it on their turn. They use their bonus action for whatever, probably Cunning Action With their regular action, they ready an action to stab an enemy as soon as the enemy does something common, like, say, attacks the party. Since this readied action was not during their turn, they get another attack with sneak attack on it.

[Jama7301]

Might be able to throw in a third if you have a way to use your Reaction as well. I believe some people mentioned using Sentinel on any Rogue to try to trigger Sneak Attack twice on any given round.

[Aett_Thorn]

Here's the situation.

An Arcane Trickster gets to level 14, picks Haste for one of their spells. In combat, they cast it on themselves.

Using the extra Attack action, they sneak attack with it on their turn. They use their bonus action for whatever, probably Cunning Action With their regular action, they ready an action to stab an enemy as soon as the enemy does something common, like, say, attacks the party. Since this readied action was not during their turn, they get another attack with sneak attack on it.

Yes, they can do that. Readying an Action with their normal Action, and then using the Haste Action to make an attack is perfectly fine.

[Aett_Thorn]

Might be able to throw in a third if you have a way to use your Reaction as well. I believe some people mentioned using Sentinel on any Rogue to try to trigger Sneak Attack twice on any given round.

Readying an Action, and then using it, would eat your Reaction.

[MeeposFire]

Here's the situation.

An Arcane Trickster gets to level 14, picks Haste for one of their spells. In combat, they cast it on themselves.

Using the extra Attack action, they sneak attack with it on their turn. They use their bonus action for whatever, probably Cunning Action With their regular action, they ready an action to stab an enemy as soon as the enemy does something common, like, say, attacks the party. Since this readied action was not during their turn, they get another attack with sneak attack on it.

Yes this works with some variability depending on your stated trigger and if the enemy triggers it (which may depend on how your DM plays since some will do everything they can to stop the trigger some by tactics and some by trying to weasel their way out of it some legitimately and others not so much).

[DarkKnightJin]

Level ..17.. Scout gets to proc their Sneak Attack twice on their turn, as long as it's not against the same target.

[Kane0]

IIRC Thieves also get the ability to get a second turn on round 1, which means a second sneak attack.

[TheUser]

This works, however there are ways to achieve this before level 13 (remember you can swap your any-school spell to Haste at level 13) and it's by taking Sentinel and using Mirror Image; attacking an Image triggers sentinel :D

Commander's Strike from Battlemaster's is also great for teamplay with Rogues as it allows for the same idea, use your reaction for sneak attacks.

In general I like using Sentinel and then using Blur and getting a wicked high AC (level 1 fighter with Defense fighting style = 20 AC in half plate with a shield). Either the enemy is dumping attacks into the Rogue at disadvantage or they are getting eviscerated by huge damage opportunity attacks.

That having been said the Haste combination operates at RANGE which is a big difference to account for.

This is also why Haste should almost always be reserved for the Rogues in the group ;)

[CircleOfTheRock]

Here's the situation.

An Arcane Trickster gets to level 14, picks Haste for one of their spells. In combat, they cast it on themselves.

Using the extra Attack action, they sneak attack with it on their turn. They use their bonus action for whatever, probably Cunning Action With their regular action, they ready an action to stab an enemy as soon as the enemy does something common, like, say, attacks the party. Since this readied action was not during their turn, they get another attack with sneak attack on it.
Yep, that works - Sneak Attack is once per turn, not once per round.

Hell, an Opportunity Attack can be a Sneak Attack, no Haste required - given, of course, that you meet the regular conditions.

[Malifice]

Fighter 2.

Action: Attack action. Sneak attack

Action surge: Ready an attack for the start of your opponents turn. Sneak attack.

[Zene]

IIRC Thieves also get the ability to get a second turn on round 1, which means a second sneak attack.

Thieves can also use the haste/readied action/reaction trick twice if they have a friend cast Haste. So four sneak attacks in a round. If they’ve got a Battlemaster friend with commanders strike that beats them on the initiative roll, or some other method of making a reaction attack before their first turn, they can get 5 sneak attacks in a round.

[Kane0]

Or a magic item that can cast haste. Thief doesnt seem to get a lot of credit for the things it can do.

[lperkins2]

Fighter 2.

Action: Attack action. Sneak attack

Action surge: Ready an attack for the start of your opponents turn. Sneak attack.

Of course, you miss out on multi-attack that way, and it's a once per rest trick. And it consumes your reaction, so no AoO.

[Aaron Underhand]

Thieves can also use the haste/readied action/reaction trick twice if they have a friend cast Haste. So four sneak attacks in a round. If they’ve got a Battlemaster friend with commanders strike that beats them on the initiative roll, or some other method of making a reaction attack before their first turn, they can get 5 sneak attacks in a round.

I'm confused by this.

If you ready you then use your reaction.
Commanders strike also uses their reaction...
You only get a single reaction per Round

You can't ready twice, you can't use another reaction, so Max two sneak attacks per round.

[Biggstick]

I'm confused by this.

If you ready you then use your reaction.
Commanders strike also uses their reaction...
You only get a single reaction per Round

You can't ready twice, you can't use another reaction, so Max two sneak attacks per round.

A level 17 Thief has an ability called Thief's Reflexes. It allows them to take a second turn during the first round of combat at their normal initiative count minus 10. This means they will be going twice in the first round. Zene's proposed situation also requires the stars to align perfectly, by having a Reaction trigger prior to their first turn, and to get Haste prior to their first turn.



Initiative Count 25: Baddie #1. Moves to melee range (5') to attack the Battlemaster Fighter.
Initiative Count 24: Battlemaster Fighter. Uses Commander's Strike on the Thief Rogue. Thief uses Reaction to Sneak Attack Baddie #1.
Initiative Count 22: Sorcerer Twin casts Haste on the Battlemaster Fighter and Thief Rogue.
Initiative Count 20: Thief Rogue. Use of Reaction returns due to it now being the Thief's turn. Uses Hasted action to Sneak Attack Baddie #1. Uses Action to Ready an Attack against Baddie #1.
Initiative Count 17: Baddie #2. Moves to melee range (5') to attack the Battlemaster Fighter. Thief Rogue Reaction attack for Sneak Attack against Baddie #1.
Initiative Count 14: Baddie #3. Moves to melee range (5') to attack the Battlemaster Fighter.
Initiative Count 12: Life Cleric. Casts Bless on Battlemaster Fighter, Thief Rogue, and self.
Initiative Count 10: Thief Rogue. Use of Reaction returns due to it now being the Thief's turn. Uses Hasted action to Sneak Attack Baddie #2, as Baddie #1 has died. Uses Action to Ready an Attack against Baddie #2.
Initiative Count 7: Baddie #4. The mooks swarm the Battlemaster Fighter. Thief Rogue Reaction attack for Sneak Attack against Baddie #2.
Initiative Count 5: Evoker Wizard. Drops a Fireball on their Battlemaster Fighter, sculpting it to not hit the Fighter.



Like I said the stars have to align perfectly, but it is possible for a Thief Rogue who is level 17 to get 5 Sneak Attacks off in a single round.

[Zene]

A level 17 Thief has an ability called Thief's Reflexes. It allows them to take a second turn during the first round of combat at their normal initiative count minus 10. This means they will be going twice in the first round. Zene's proposed situation also requires the stars to align perfectly, by having a Reaction trigger prior to their first turn, and to get Haste prior to their first turn.



Initiative Count 25: Baddie #1. Moves to melee range (5') to attack the Battlemaster Fighter.
Initiative Count 24: Battlemaster Fighter. Uses Commander's Strike on the Thief Rogue. Thief uses Reaction to Sneak Attack Baddie #1.
Initiative Count 22: Sorcerer Twin casts Haste on the Battlemaster Fighter and Thief Rogue.
Initiative Count 20: Thief Rogue. Use of Reaction returns due to it now being the Thief's turn. Uses Hasted action to Sneak Attack Baddie #1. Uses Action to Ready an Attack against Baddie #1.
Initiative Count 17: Baddie #2. Moves to melee range (5') to attack the Battlemaster Fighter. Thief Rogue Reaction attack for Sneak Attack against Baddie #1.
Initiative Count 14: Baddie #3. Moves to melee range (5') to attack the Battlemaster Fighter.
Initiative Count 12: Life Cleric. Casts Bless on Battlemaster Fighter, Thief Rogue, and self.
Initiative Count 10: Thief Rogue. Use of Reaction returns due to it now being the Thief's turn. Uses Hasted action to Sneak Attack Baddie #2, as Baddie #1 has died. Uses Action to Ready an Attack against Baddie #2.
Initiative Count 7: Baddie #4. The mooks swarm the Battlemaster Fighter. Thief Rogue Reaction attack for Sneak Attack against Baddie #2.
Initiative Count 5: Evoker Wizard. Drops a Fireball on their Battlemaster Fighter, sculpting it to not hit the Fighter.



Like I said the stars have to align perfectly, but it is possible for a Thief Rogue who is level 17 to get 5 Sneak Attacks off in a single round.

Great breakdown, thanks! While it definitely is tough to set up, it's not necessarily as tough as the scenario you described. Haste can be pre-cast. The Thief's attacks can be ranged, making positioning far less important. There are lots of ways to manipulate the initiative order, including Bend Luck, Cutting Words, Enhance Ability, Lucky, Peerless Skill, Inspiration, Bardic Inspiration, and Tides of Chaos. But still, especially for that first pre-turn reaction sneak attack, it's more likely to just occasionally happen as luck instead of being something you engineer. Also, just wanted to point out: Haste and Commander's Strike are just two ways of doing this. Any other way of triggering reaction attacks (Sentinel and Attacks of Opportunity, say, via Dissonant Whispers, are two that come to mind) can also make this happen. But Haste is probably the easiest to set up consistently.

[JNAProductions]

Thieves can also use the haste/readied action/reaction trick twice if they have a friend cast Haste. So four sneak attacks in a round. If they’ve got a Battlemaster friend with commanders strike that beats them on the initiative roll, or some other method of making a reaction attack before their first turn, they can get 5 sneak attacks in a round.

Doesn't actually work. You get one reaction per round, refreshing on your turn.

So, if an enemy provokes an AoO or something before your turn, that's 1 Sneak Attack.
Then, you attack on your turn, that's 2 Sneak Attacks.
Then, you use your reaction (whether via Readied Action, Commander's Strike, or an AoO) after your turn, that's 3 Sneak Attacks.

But no more, unless you somehow manage to Shapechange into a Marilith while retaining Sneak Attack.

[Jama7301]

Readying an Action, and then using it, would eat your Reaction.

My bad. I had misremembered the Ready rules.

[Biggstick]

Doesn't actually work. You get one reaction per round, refreshing on your turn.

So, if an enemy provokes an AoO or something before your turn, that's 1 Sneak Attack.
Then, you attack on your turn, that's 2 Sneak Attacks.
Then, you use your reaction (whether via Readied Action, Commander's Strike, or an AoO) after your turn, that's 3 Sneak Attacks.

But no more, unless you somehow manage to Shapechange into a Marilith while retaining Sneak Attack.

A level 17 Rogue Thief has two spots in the Initiative order in the first round of combat, due to their level 17 ability. That's how a Thief Rogue is able to potentially have 5 Sneak Attack turns in the first round. I detailed how a few posts above this one.

[JNAProductions]

A level 17 Rogue Thief has two spots in the Initiative order in the first round of combat, due to their level 17 ability. That's how a Thief Rogue is able to potentially have 5 Sneak Attack turns in the first round. I detailed how a few posts above this one.

Right, but they're talking about an Arcane Trickster.

[Biggstick]

Right, but they're talking about an Arcane Trickster.

The OP is talking about the Arcane Trickster. However, throughout the discussion, the Thief's ability to have a second turn during the first round came up. While a slight tangent, it's still relevant to the conversation in that it's another Rogue archetype that can theoretically double (triple/quadruple/etc) up on Sneak Attack turns in the first round.

[JNAProductions]

The OP is talking about the Arcane Trickster. However, throughout the discussion, the Thief's ability to have a second turn during the first round came up. While a slight tangent, it's still relevant to the conversation in that it's another Rogue archetype that can theoretically double (triple/quadruple/etc) up on Sneak Attack turns in the first round.

Fair enough. So yes, Thief Rogues can potentially get 5, but Arcane Tricksters max at three.

Most likely situation of getting three is probably Battlemaster Fighter (with Alert) rolls higher than you on init, Commander's Strikes you, and you already have Haste up from a friendly caster. On your first turn, Ready to strike an enemy, then attack with extra Haste action, and duplicate that on your next extra turn.

[Specter]

Always take care with Haste; if you lose concentration or get dispelled, it's one turn doing nothing.

[Coffee_Dragon]

I'll be the voice of contrariance and say I don't like this and understand DMs who don't like this. I understand the purpose of the 1/turn restriction/relaxation on Sneak Attack to be to give sting to a rogue's OAs and to accommodate things like Thief's Reflexes. I don't think the purpose is to make players find ways to shift their actions to other turns in order to clear an arbitrary mechanical hurdle to helpings of extra damage. There is no point, no fluff justification. If I were DMing and a player was adamant about exploiting this, I'd just say, "OK, I'll let you have another SA for your extra Action, no contrived Readying, just take the extra damage. There's no reason for us to jump through these mechanical hoops to satisfy the terms a wonky rules interaction. The rules work for us, we don't dance for them."

Tangentially,


Ready an attack for the start of your opponents turn.

This I wouldn't allow either way. I don't see game constructs as valid Ready triggers, it has to be some in-world circumstance that can be apprehended by the character.