The official Blood Bowl discussion thread

[Eldpollard]

So I've recently started playing blood bowl and I didn't see a thread already so I have for your enjoyment *fanfare starts* the official blood bowl thread.

What teams does everyone play? I've ordered skaven but they haven't arrived yet.

[JellyPooga]

As coach of The Horned Rats Heroes, welcome to the sport! It's always good to see fellow Skaven take up the reins of coachmanship and win a few more trophies in the name of our Horned and furry God *covertly draws a rusty blade and waits for Eldpollard to turn his back*.

I've been playing Blood Bowl, on and off, for coming on 12-14 years now and it's quite possibly my favourite GW game. What edition of the rules are you using btw?

Played right, Skaven are the best league team available...they're cheap, so you don't have to worry too much about players dying or getting seriously injured and they're fast (not quite the fastest), so you can literally run rings around other teams.

If you want some advice on playing a Skaven team, I'll be glad to assist (though if anyone you'relikely to play against reads these forums, you might want me to PM you this advice...don't want the enemy knowing your secret plays).

[Eldpollard]

Thanks. Erm, I'm using the rules that came in the most recent box set. 2002 I think. I also have the pdf of the latest one downloaded. So what tactics do you have? I'd be interested to know.

[JellyPooga]

The most important thing about playing a speed team (like Skaven) is to stop your ball-handler getting hit. Preventing your other players from getting hit is also a bonus (considering their low AV). You aren't a strong team, so don't even try to go toe-to-toe with strong teams like Orcs, Chaos and Dwarves. Instead, focus on agility and speed, and don't neglect your passing skills either.

Bearing this in mind, my recommended starting line-up (purchased with your initial 1,000,000) would be as follows:

1 x Stormvermin (These guys are more expensive than they're worth)
2 x Thrower (Extremely useful when recieving and it doesn't matter too much if one is taken out)
4 x Gutter Runner (Most important players in your team)
6 x Line Rat (6 rather than 5 because 13 is a lucky number for you!)

That should leave you with 150,000, which you can spend on Re-Rolls and Fan Factor. Depending on which rules you're using, I would buy 1 Re-Roll (for 60k) and 9 Fan Factor (for 90k). However, that recommendation is based on the older rules where having a high Fan Factor directly contributed to getting much more money at the end of the game. If you're using the most recent rules (where high FF isn't as important), I would go with 2 Re-Rolls and 3 Fan Factor. Some might reccomend buying an Apothecary as part of your initial line-up, but they don't double in price after your 1st game (like Re-Rolls do), so they can go on the "to buy later" list.

To tactics:

General Stuff

- If a player isn't doing anything and is in someone elses tackle zone after you've done all your important moves that turn, attempt to move him away from the tackle zone. You succeed on a 3+ for most of your players and it saves being blocked in your opponents turn. If you fall, your opponent can't use any skills like Mighty Blow to improve the chance of penetrating your armour or causing injury and he doesn't get SPP's from it either. Ideally, you want to end every turn with no player standing next to an enemy; that way, he can only make one block against you (and that's his Blitz action for that turn).

- Always field all 4 Gutter Runners. They are almost the best basic player available in the game, for any team...fast, relatively cheap and agile. These guys Dodge on a 2+ with a free re-roll. They can pick up, catch the ball and throw quick passes on a 2+. They move 9 squares. If someone puts a tackle zone on one, Dodge away, no matter what else you do that turn; it's practically a guaranteed action and it saves them from getting hurt (see above).

If the action takes most players into your half of the field, make sure that you have at least 1 Gutter Runner somewhere in your opponents half; at the very least, it will tie up one of his players trying to put tackle zones on him. At best, if you manage to get the ball away from your opponent, you will only be a pass and a catch away from winning (a Gutter Runner only has to be 2 squares in to your opponents half to score in one turn, with a couple of "go-for-its").

- If you have to make a Block (which is inevitable), stack the odds in your favour: Use your Stormvermin to make the actual Block or Blitz, always try to get 2-on-1 (for a 2-dice Block) and make sure that you Block your target such that, if you only get a "Push Back" result, you don't put a tackle-zone on any of your other players (if possible). Remember, you are not a strong team, don't make pointless Blocks if possible. If you're feeling violent and have done all your important stuff that turn, then the odd 1-dice Block is o.k, but remember that a standing player is better than a prone one and if you roll an "Attacker Down" or "Both-Down" result, then you are losing a tackle-zone that your (more than likely) less agile opponent will have to get through.

- Skaven are fast enough to take advantage of almost any mistake their opponent makes. Even LineRats can traverse about third of the pitch in one turn. This means that you should always be conscious of any openings in your opponents line, so that if the opportunity comes, you an exploit it. Don't be afraid to pour your entire team through one gap...it leaves you clustered up (which is a vulnerable position), but sometimes, the shock that your entire team just went through a 1-square wide gap in one turn can unnerve your opponent into making mistakes.

- Spacing. Spacing. Spacing. You'll often hear about "the Cage" or similarly named plays where your players surround the ball carrier and slowly march down the field. DO NOT USE THIS TACTIC. It will only slow you down and make you ball-carrier vulnerable to being trapped. You want to protect the ball, so put lots of tackle-zones around it, but don't crowd the carrier. He should always have an "escape route". Remember, you need the ball open and free to move. Your speed means that you can score in 2 turns, pretty much wherever the ball is on the pitch (3 tops), once you've got yor hands on it...when you consider that some teams require 3 turns minimum to move just from the line of scrimmage to the touchzone, you can see the advantage you have.

That's about all the General Advice I can give you for now. I'll post some specific advice concerning Attack, Defence and Team Development later, but right now I'm going to bed.

[Attilargh]

Yay, a BB thread! :smallcool: I love the game. Unfortunately, there's not much of a miniature scene where I live, so I'm forced to play it over the net. Easier than it might sound, thanks to a thing called FUMBBL (http://fumbbl.com/).

But anyway. Out of all the various teams I've had the opportunity to try, there will always be a special spot in my heart for the Pro Elves: They are the perfect mixture of speed, skill and that certain elf grace that, when properly applied to an opponent's face, will leave him picking his teeth from the bloody field. Also, their Runners are pure awesome thanks to their crazy high speed and Nerves of Steel. Wood Elves are another great team, even if the players are really expensive. I'm not a very good player, but that just makes all those amazingly improbable only-for-elves dodge-dodge-understrengthblock-pickup-dodge-goforit-score! plays that much sweeter.


Hey, maybe we could set up some sort of tournament via FUMBBL some day?

[Eldpollard]

Thanks JellyPooga. That was very comprehensive. I have on question. How do Skaven get the ball from the enemy?

[JellyPooga]

I was going to go into a lot more detail about specific attack and defence plays, but I haven't the time or effort to work out quite how to translate models on a pitch into prose, so I'll just abbreviate and continue in a similar style to before.

- Recieving the Ball: When recieving the ball (at a kick-off), you should score in 2 turns. If you take more than that, you're either unlucky or doing something wrong. 2 Throwers, placed 7 squares back from the line of scrimmage, just outside either wide-zone allows you to retrieve the ball from wherever it lands in your half and throw it to a Gutter Runner who should be set up about 2 squares behind the LOS. Most of the rest of your players should be set up in close proximity to the GR who will be recieving the ball, with the exception of a single GR and a LineRat on the other side of the pitch.

Come your turn, you get the ball and throw it to the GR recieving the ball (before anything else). Next, you use your Stormvermin to punch a hole in your oponents defensive line (if this needs doing) and send all possible players through this hole (except the GR and LR on the other side of the pitch), surrounding the ball carrier in a loose formation (such that there is no way for your opponent to reach the ball carrier). Remember, the ball carrier only needs to be 2-4 squares into your opponents half to be alble to score next turn. The GR and LR on the other side of the pitch make an attempt to dodge through the enemy line, giving you a back up GR in range of the end-zone in case things start going pear-shaped.

On your opponents turn, the best he should be able to do is knock down one or two of your players and put tackle-zones on some others. If he's lucky (or you were careless) you might have a tackle-zone on your ball carrier...this isn't too much of a problem.

Turn 2: Score. This may require another hole to be punched somewhere and almost certainly will require a Dodge on behalf of the ball carrier, but this should not be a problem as your ball carrier only has a 1-in-36 chance of failing that Dodge (in most cases) (2+ Dodge with re-roll). IF the dodge(s) or hole-puching is going to be too hard, then your back-up plan is to throw the ball to the GR who moved up the other side of the pitch and score with him. DO NOT try anything that does not directly contribute to getting your GR to the end-zone.

9/10 this should work.


- Kicking the Ball: This is a little harder and depends on who you're playing against. I'll start with vs. a strong team (Orcs, Chaos, Dwarves, etc.).

1) Don't put tackle zones on enemy players (see later); you'll only get hit and lose players from the pitch. Instead, place your players in the way, but not in contact. This slows them down and forces them to take the chances. If they get desperate and try to dodge...they'll fail (trust me...strength teams are cursed with failing at dodges, even if they have average AG).

2)Wait for the opportunity to arise and take it. Remember, you have speed on your side and ground it takes them 2 or 3 turns to make, you can take back in 1. The opportunity is different every time, so keep your eye out for any gap he presents...oft times, this gap will require you to put your players in the line of fire by putting tackle-zones on opponents, so that you can get a 1-dice Blitz against your opponents ball-carrier...don't worry too much about this, because if things go to plan, your opponent won't get a chance to hit you because you'll score (remember that GR that's always in range of your opponents end-zone?). If you don't score from the opportunity that arises, you'll at least have slowed his progress another turn and he'll be forced to divide his forces and deal with your players (which breaks up his formation)...whilst divided forces are an advantage for you, it's a disadvantage for him (Strength teams work better in close knit formations).

Vs. other Speed teams (Skaven, Elves, etc.)

1)Most other speed teams are Elves and you suffer the distinct disadvantage of having a lower average AG. This means that the "don't put tackle-zones on players" tactic doesn't work, because they'll just dodge through your defensive line. This means that you have to hit them and hit them hard. The advantage you have over other speed teams is numbers. AV's will be approximately equal, but you have replacements, so put tackle-zones on enemies, hit them with 1-dice blocks and foul any player that looks like they need a good kickin'. Play dirty and take out as many of them as possible when you're on the defensive (but maintain your 2-turn TD's on offensive). By the end of the game, with any luck, you'll be fielding a little under a full complement (13's a lucky number, right?), but your opponent will be several men down (those pansy Elves get hurt easy, but they're expensive, so don't expect them to have more than 11 or 12 players on their team).

2)Expect the score for both teams to approach the 5-6 mark by the end of the game...remember, you're both playing for fast TD's. So don't be disheartened when your opponent scores, just make up for it by scoring yourself. At the end of the day, when playing vs. another speed team, it's all down to who gets lucky and who doesn't as to who wins (whereas, vs. a strength team, the odds are in your favour to win, so it's only by particularly bad luck, on your part, that you should lose).


-Getting the ball off of the opposition. Since you asked specifically, I'll address this problem (and it is a problem). The only advice I can give you here is what I've already said really; wait for an opportunity to arise and take it. Try to get 2-on-1 for 2-dice Blocks, but don't be afraid to take a risk. Remember that your Stormvermin has a 50% chance of knocking down his opponent and only a 1-in-6 of going down himself, on a 1-dice Block (given that his opponent doesn't have the Dodge or Block skill). The odds are a little worse for your other players, but it can be worth the risk to get the ball open. Don't forget that your Throwers are just as good as your LineRats at hitting people, so don't hold them back just because they're better throwers. Also, do not not underestimate Gutter Runners; they're only ST 2, but 1 GR with 2 assists gets a 2-dice Block (most of the time) and an asist from a GR is just as good as an assist from any other player. MV 9 and AG 4 can get you to prime assisting positions, or make for a blinding Blitz out of nowhere as 3 GR's converge on 1 enemy player in the open to take him down.

- DO NOT GET A RAT OGRE. They are a waste of money and effort. They contribute very little to your game plan; about the only use for them is to occupy dim witted opponents who tie up 3 of their players trying to take it down. The blocking ability of a Rat Ogre is not significant enough to make up for they're incompetancy at everything else. Also, it is unlikely that they'll get many SPP's, so won't improve and it is very likely that they'll accrue injuries due to the amount of attention they'll get from enemy blocks and fouls. This leads me nicely on to:

- Team Development:

1)Gutter Runners. These guys gain SPP's like no other player. All those TD's make for Pro players. If you roll a double-6 (ST increase)...take a Physical Ability...ST for GR's isn't important, V.Long Legs or Stunty is. AG increases are always useful, as are MV increases. Perhaps the most important skill a GR can get (and should be the first skill you select unless you get a double or stat-up) is LEAP. Until you've seen a pair of Gutter Runners with Leap in action, you won't believe how effective it is. Virtually nothing can stop you from making your 2-turn TD's when you have a GR or two with Leap. Obviously, Pro is useful (but not to be relied on), Sure Hands and/or Catch come in handy. If you feel saucy, you might want to invest in Dump-Off and a couple of Throwing Skills (Accuracy, Spin Pass, Strong Arm) for one of your Gutter Runners, as a back-up thrower (that AG 4 is useful for a lot of things).

2)Stormvermin. He won't get many SPPs unless you get lucky or devote time and effort trying to get them for him. When he does get some, Strip Ball is invaluable. With this, he becomes exceedingly useful for getting the ball off of the opposition. Don't worry too much about getting Mighty Blow, 'cos when you're blocking, you're not doing it to kill your opponent (though it wouldn't go amiss), but to get the ball off of him. Obviously, ST and MV increases are handy, but a AG increase can also make for the start of a true Star Player (Griff Oberwlad stlye).

3)Throwers. AG, MV, Accuracy, Spin Pass, Strong Arm. In that order. That is all.

4)LineRats. Ah, cannon fodder...Block, Guard and ST increases are all good. Kick is a surprisingly useful skill and can (if you get lucky) stop your opponent ever touching the ball when you are kicking (though it does require a GR with increased MV and/or Sprint/Leap to reliably pull this off). Again, do not shun an AG or MV increase...your opponents won't expect it when you make a dazzling display of agility and speed with your "bog-standard" LineRat. Having at least 1 Dirty PLayer on the team is kinda handy too...

5)Winnings. You should get lots of this because you should be winning lots. 1st purchase of the day is an Apothecary...v. v. useful for when your star Gutter Runner gets nailed. As mentioned, don't bother with a Rat Ogre, but you should be able to max out your roster to 16 faster than most others (though I always prefer to keep lucky 13 players on my roster :smallwink: ). Basically, once you've hit about 100,000 (which you should keep in reserve in case you need to replace players), you can start saving for more team re-rolls. That's about all you need spend money on...Assistant Coaches and Cheerleaders are pretty much a waste of time, so don't bother there.

6)Injuries. If a GR gets a ST penalty, it really doesn't matter...if he gets hit, he's screwed and he's not making any Blocks as it is. Anyone else gets hit for ST and you have spare change, you may as well ditch him (unless he has some particularly useful skills). MV and AG penalties aren't something to be unduly concerned with, given that you'll still be faster than most other players in the game and AG for most of your players isn't a neccessity (though if a GR or Thrower gets hit for AG, ditch him unles he has really useful skills).

Anyways, that's about all of the wisdom I can give you without physicaly coming round to your house and showing you...hope it's helped!

PS - though the advice I've given is specifically for Skaven, most of it will apply to other Speed teams....and to all you Strength team players out there: no taking advantage of the knowledge you've gained from reading this, or I'll send Clan Eshin after you....:smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

[Tekar]

Aah, BloodBowl. It's been a while but I used to coach me a nice Human and Skaven team. If you're playing among friends I'm just going to give you a tip on how to keep the game fun: Do the wacky stuff, try the long shots and take the risks. This makes for four things:
- You don't feel as bad when you fail. When you try this watter tight strategy with everything covered and it fails because you threw double 1s with your sure hands agility 4 player to pick up the ball it feels awfull. However when your plan was a long shot (or kinda) you usually just laugh.
- If it does work it's grand, your players just did something amazing that no-one expected and everybody's laughing.
- If your player gets injured at least he went out in a cool way.
- If both players play like this it makes for action packed, fun and unpredictable matches without boring cages taking turns walking to the opposite side.
However both players need to play like this, otherwise it won't work.

EDIT: and I have to disagree with JellyPooga: do take the rat ogre, he's just so cool and it's great to have a behemoth ripping up the opposing player's team while your team is dancing around the carnage.

[Attilargh]

JellyPooga's advice is pretty good, but I disagree with using one-die blocks against elves. It's so risky I prefer just laying down so many tackle zones on them that even elves can't sneeze unless they want to risk a turnover. Any "blockade runners" are then easily taken care of with a couple of two-die blocks and perhaps a follow-up foul.

On kicking the ball: This is actually my favourite part of the game when playing with elves. I just love zooming past the opposition to grab the ball before anyone else lais his hands on it and bravely running for the goal:
First, you're going to need Kick. It's absolutely imperative you don't give a touchback to the opponent.
Second, set up your fastest players on the sidelines, one or two squares away. (Just in case the opponent puts some bashies right on the line, or that one lovely kickoff result happens.)
Third, kick the ball either very close to the midline, or as far up the field as you dare. The first option gives you the ball right away, and the opponent has to work that much harder to get it. The second option puts the ball far from the action, so it is unlikely you'll have to go on the defensive very soon.
Fourth, run, Eldpollard, run! (Move both sides, no matter where the ball ended up. This way you've got a good distraction and a possible scorer if you happen to get bogged down.)
(This is in no way a good tactic. It is very fun, exciting and not very predictable. It is also easy to counter and leads to many, many dodges, risky blocks and other elvish shenaningas that are likely to leave your star players with nasty injuries.)

Oh, and one-turners are not fun for the whole family. Don't make them.

[Eldpollard]

Wow, thanks for the advice everyone, I wish I could reciprocate but I'm still very new to this.