Best Archer Build

[Costantine10]

What is the best DPS archer build? With some utility out of combat ( and in combat)

[Zanthy1]

I posted a similar thread a while back, and the consensus seemed to be that crossbow expert with sharpshooter on a fighter 2, rogue x build seemed to be the best. Fighter for the archery fighting style and action surge (plus proficiency) and then rogue for sneak attacks (thief for getting into good sniping spots, scout for other stuff). And you'd use a handcrossbow in the offhand to get extra damage.

[nickl_2000]

If you are talking best overall DPR (damage per round) then your best archer will likely be a battlemaster fighter with Sharpshooter, Archery Fighting Style, and Crossbow Mastery. You get 5 attacks per round

If you want someone who will still deal solid damage as an archer and have more options in and out of combat
Battlemaster 5/Rogue Scout


One other that I'm playing around with an think is pretty solid
Level 6 Hexblade Warlock/level 3 Battlemaster/11 levels Rogue Scout with Magic Initiate Wizard for Find Familiar

or my version since UA is allowed
Level 6 Hexblade Warlock/level 3 Fighter Scout/11 levels Rogue Scout with Magic Initiate Wizard for Find Familiar

[Mortis_Elrod]

Um I think it depends on how consistent you want to be. Any burst build will want to use Hexblade for 5 levels to smite. Constant damage will want Rogue with easy ways to get Sneak attack attack, both will probably want action surge, extra attack, archery fighting style, sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and probably battle masters precise shots.

Personally I like being able to lay on tons of dice and effects into one shot, plus I like warlock a lot and a hexblade archer is only slightly less awesome as melee and depending on build just as good.

[Spacehamster]

Gloom stalker 8, fighter 2 and assassin 10 seems like good burst, skill utility and mobility plus gets both CON and WIS saves from the build of you start with 1 level fighter.

[Naanomi]

Lots of ways to go...
-Assassin 19/Fighter 1 (Bugbear or Wood Elf)
-Battlemaster with hand crossbow (V. human, Halfling?)
-Hunter Ranger (either ranger 20 or ranger 11/Scout rogue 9)
-Valor/Sword Bard poaching the ranger archery spells

[smcmike]

And you'd use a handcrossbow in the offhand to get extra damage.

Not in the off hand.

[Zanthy1]

Not in the off hand.

Apologies, I didn't actually go back to the post I had made and was going off memory (which is semi-reliable at best lol)

[BobZan]

Fighter Battlemaster 11/ War Cleric 9 - with Sharpshooter (and Crossbow Expert if you like it)

You get an incredible extra precision/short rest via Battlemaster and War Cleric, you get Spiritual Weapon or Bonus Action extra attacks (very limited) AND Holy Weapon.

3 attacks per turn with great precision(4 if you use War Cleric feature, Crossbow Expert or Spiritual Weapon (may be upcast)).

[Mister_Squinty]

Wouldn't adding the Elf Super Advantage Feat to the Fighter/Rogue w. Familiar combo put the icing on that cake? With Super Advantage and the 19-20 crit range, the archer is going to crit 27.10% of the time. Throw in sneak attack dice and that's going to get brutal.

[Citan]

What is the best DPS archer build? With some utility out of combat ( and in combat)
Hi!

I posted a similar thread a while back, and the consensus seemed to be that crossbow expert with sharpshooter on a fighter 2, rogue x build seemed to be the best. Fighter for the archery fighting style and action surge (plus proficiency) and then rogue for sneak attacks (thief for getting into good sniping spots, scout for other stuff). And you'd use a handcrossbow in the offhand to get extra damage.
Well, the consensus was only existing because I missed your thread. XD

There are actually several "best" DPS archer build. All depending on the balance you put on several scales:
- nova / sustained
- specific target / any target
- martial / magic
- focused / versatile
- target level low / high.
- expected encounters.

For example, for a level 6 character with short encounters, probably nothing would best a Battlemaster or Hunter Ranger : Battlemaster could pick Sharpshooter and bump DEX to 18, or Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert.
Ranger could pick one of the feat (Crossbow Expert being better currently) and deal equal or more sustained damage depending on AC target thanks to Hunter's Mark and Horde Breaker.

Just change the kind of encounter and make it long ones, and now a DEX Devotion Paladin, as strange as it sounds, would be a great competitor: even if Sacred Weapon takes an action (so blows a turn), the huge boost to hit chance would make him even more reliable all day long (too bad he doesn't get Archery as a fighting style though).

Around level 11 things are much more blurry:
- Ranger gets Volley, which won't be better than 3 attacks usually unless your party herds enemies, but can deal insane amount of damage in some situations, at will. At such Ranger could get his weapon buffed too. ;)
- Fighter gets 3rd attack: fast and steady amount of damage whatever happens. Add to that Battlemaster's extra damage on many manoeuvers, or an Eldricht's Strike "Irresistible Curse" (Action Surge Attack, Action Cast Hold Person or Blindness, profit) and you boost also nova damage.
- Rogue starts getting a pretty good amount of damage on his single attack, and Reliable Talent means basically as long as he gets some cover he can land full damage every turn (Attack, bonus action Hide, repeat).
- Devotion Paladin suffers kinda the same problem than before, needing one turn of boost to compete, so he starts falling down unless the encounter lasts...
- Bladesinger enters the fray: he high enough level to get a chance to pick Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter, has enough slots to use Greater Invisibility every encounter if he chooses so, unless he relies on classics Hold spells.
- Hexblade Pact Warlocks, from what I understand, can make a pact with any weapon. AND Hexblade feature (CHA instead of DEX) works with hand crossbows. Same as Bladesinger, at that level he had time to pick Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter.

At highest levels, Fighter takes the crown of sustained damage, closely followed by Wizard (using Foresight and upcast Magic Weapon) and probably Rogue. Ranger can keep up only once per day, Warlock's Lifedrinker works only on melee attacks, they are out.

Now, enter some of the best archer builds, from a theorical point of view (= a pain to build for one at least, and level 20 anyways -although most of them are good whatever way you buid them all the way). ;)
Devotion Paladin 4 / Hexblade Pact Warlock 5 / Divine Soul Sorcerer 4-5 / Battlemaster 3-4 / finish however you want (Rogue 2 or Swashbuckler 3 could be a thing, or improving smite with Warlock 7).
Bump CHA to 18, pick Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert, you may even have an ASI to grab Alert, Mobile or bump to 20.
This is probably the king of nova damage.
You'll need to spend the first turn fully buffing yourself, but then you'll lay death at a frightening pace.
Turn 1: Action Surge cast Elemental Weapon / Greater Invisibility depending on your build, Action Sacred Weapon, bonus action Hexblade (provided you are close enough).
Turn 2: your to-hit bonus is now 2*CHA +2 (Archery) + before magical buff: on the turns to come, you can unleash 3 crossbow attacks with potentially +10 on each from Sharpshooter + Eldricht Smite (basically the main reason to pick Blade pact). Even worse on a single enemy cursed: +6 on every attack, crit on 19/20.

Eldricht Knight 11 / Devotion Paladin 3 / Lore Bard 6: Fighter brings attacks, Action Surge and Eldricht Smite, Bard brings debuff spells. Strong skills, strong utility, healing, battlefield, debuff, self-defense, what's not to like? ;)

Hexblade Pact Warlock 9 / Arcane Trickster Rogue 11: done no maths on this one, but I suspect would be very powerful too as far as nova damage is concerned: hide, cast a nasty low-level debuff with Magical Ambush, then have two (rather three with Crossbow Expert) chances of hitting one single attack with advantage that deals additional 6d8 + 6d6 damage on two consecutive turns. Repeatable every short rest.
(I'm pretty sure there is some archetype of some class that provide a "ranged attack" reaction, but cannot remember it, maybe I dreamed it).

Ranger 11 / Tempest Cleric 2 / Shepherd Druid 2 / Finish however you want: idea here is to get a Ranger which versatility is expanded through dips, and that can unleash a powerful AOE when needed by synergyzing Lightning Arrow with Channel Divinity.
If you don't care about Volley, you could even eat 2 more levels of Ranger to get two levels of Rogue or Fighter or whatever else.
As far as versatility/power/easiness to build balance goes, this is without any discussion the best among all. It's hard to beat a tri-class that eats into two casters that can change their prepared spells at-will after all, and you just have to build go straight Ranger 3 / Cleric 2 or Ranger 5 / Cleric 2 then do what you want, as long as you boost your spellcasting. ;)
I'd actually be partial to a Hunter (party) or Gloostalker (solo) Ranger 9 / Tempest Cleric 6 / Shepherd Druid 5. ;)

[Zene]

Citan is correct, in that it depends a lot on what level you're talking about, and depends somewhat on what kind of dpr you're looking for (primarily sustained vs. nova, though the other categories he mentions can also be a consideration).


Typically, when discussing archer builds, people talk about single-target dpr. That's because most archer builds are best at hitting a single target at a time, they're great for focus firing down the biggest threat, and single-target is easy to compare.

For levels 6-10 and 12-19, some kind of multiclass is going to be tops in sustained single-target dpr. But under level 5, it's straight gloomstalker ranger; 11 is straight battlemaster fighter. At 20, it's going to be battlemaster fighter again.

In general, if you're all about DPR, you're going to want to get Sharpshooter and then maximize the number of attacks you make per round. It's important to note, that while multiclassing is technically the route to do this at most given levels, there will always be some dead levels.

For example, the best archery dpr levels 3-8 is probably going to be Gloomstalker Ranger for the first 5 levels, and then battlemaster fighter 3. But if you do that, you're shooting (heh) yourself in the foot for levels 11+, since to get another attack after Ranger 5 you'll need to take fighter all the way to 11; which means you'll be character level 16 before you have as many attacks as someone that went Battlemaster 5 first, then Ranger 3, then Battlemaster 11. That second build's got the same number of attacks as the first, but gets them two levels earlier at L14, even though the first was ahead for a few levels in Tier 1 and 2 and tied for attacks in early Tier 3. And then compare that to someone that took Battlemaster all the way to L11 first, and as a result was significantly behind the multiclasses in dpr until L11, but now all of a sudden can do just as much dpr as the multiclasses...but can do it all day long, where the multiclass builds can only keep up with him for the first round of combat.

But to keep things simple, and to have a smooth leveling curve and consistent playstyle: I'd suggest at least initially just picking which of the following potential archer classes has the playstyle you like best: Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, or Warlock (specifically Hexblade). They can all do great dpr, and they all have very interesting quirks and utility that make them very different to play. You can also always add in fighter 2 or 3 to any of the other classes for better burst once you've maxed out your main class' number of attacks. You can even get fancy after that by adding in rogue, swords or whispers bards levels to keep bumping that damage while adding utility at the same time.

And honestly, even if you do want to multiclass eventually, you can't go wrong with taking Battlemaster fighter to L11 first. After that, you can start layering in Gloomstalker (to 3) and/or Rogue (to whatever) if you want to keep boosting dpr. That's in a campaign you expect to go all the way to 20. If you don't expect the campaign to spend much time above L10, then any of the archer classes will be good, with gloomstalker and some gloomstalker/fighter multiclass builds having a slight edge.

Edit: This all assumes you are using officially published classes and races. Adding in UA and Third-party stuff would likely give a very different answer.

[Biggstick]

To those saying that a primarily Rogue character is the Best Archer, I would add an asterisk next to that with the note that they're dependent on the DM. Being able to successfully Cunning Action Hide in combat and gain advantage consistently on attack rolls is something that is based on how your DM interprets those rules.

I'm not trying to detract from how useful 2-3 levels of Rogue are to almost all ranged builds (Cunning Action and Expertise Stealth rock!), but just point out that they can also be limited in ways other Archer builds aren't as they're dependent on Sneak Attack to do competitive damage.

What kind of utility are you looking for in and out of combat OP? There are many builds capable of doing very well as an Archer, but what they bring outside of doing ranged damage can vary significantly. Would you like to act as a face? What about as a Scout? How would you like to contribute as a character to the rest of the party while not shooting arrows/bolts at the enemy?

[Costantine10]

hi guys, thank you for all the advices. I need something playable from level 1 to level 20, with 27 points build.

[Sigreid]

I like fighter arcane archer. Unlike a rogue based archer your full capabilities are always on.

[Kane0]

Fighter, Rogue, Ranger and mixes between them are all good options. 'Best' depends on a lot of factors.

What character do you want to play?

[Dudewithknives]

It kind of depends on how your DM runs the game and rests.

If your group uses a lot of short rests then action surge and superiority dice are huge, or a hexblade archer gets a lot better.

If your group goes long times between any rests at all rogues are great.

If they are pretty book standard then ranger is pretty good.

There are 2 basic builds.

Crossbow expert using bonus action shots at shorter range.

Or

Longbow long distance hits hopefully with bracers of archery.

Sharpshooter is good or bad for each depending on how things go per game.

[Easy_Lee]

Gloomstalker / Assassin Rogue with a 2 level fighter dip for action surge yields the most absurd damage on a surprise round (six or seven critical hits). But that relies on your DM to not only know how surprise works but to actually allow it. In my experience, many DMs have a horrible habit of never allowing their players to surprise anything because they think it ruins the challenge.

Hunter Ranger yields consistent damage and has utility out of combat. Take Sharpshooter. The good news about this build is that there's not much ignorant DMs can do that will mess it up.

Fighter (Arcane Archer or Battle Master) is the same, but does not have much utility out of combat. A champion with Elven Accuracy can also do quite well as an archer, and champions have a bit more out of combat utility due to Remarkable Athlete. In any case, take Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter.

Scout Rogue is different but fills the same role and works best if you play a Wood Elf (hide in foliage, use a longbow) and take Elven Accuracy (rogues can bonus action hide for advantage, and there should always be a hiding spot within 150'). This build relies on your DM to understand how stealth and the Hide action work. In my experience, many DMs will never actually let you hide in combat because they think it ruins the challenge.

Are you noticing a pattern?

In conclusion, choose the character you want to play and make sure it's compatible with your DM.

[Specter]

hi guys, thank you for all the advices. I need something playable from level 1 to level 20, with 27 points build.

For something playable from level 1 to 20, I'd rule out Bards (too much comes late, and stats are hard to balance) and Warlocks. For utility out of combat, let's kick out Fighters too.

Let's do Hunter 12/Assassin 8 as an exercise.
Wood Elf
ST10, DX16, CO14, WI16, IN10, CH8

1: Ranger (STR/DEX are better saves than DEX/INT, and you get 2hp).
2: RGR. Archery Fighting Style (duh). For spells, let's go with Hunter's Mark and Ensnaring Strike for now.
3: RGR. Colossus Slayer and Horde Breaker are both good. Decide if you want single-target damage or horde damage. Take Absorb Elements for protection.
4: RGR. Boost DEX.
5: RGR. Take Pass Without Trace. If you feel like like taking Silence/Spike Growth for more strategic options, drop Ensnaring Strike.
6: Rogue 1. Expertise Stealth and whatever else you like.
7: ROG.
8: ROG. Now Assassinate comes on. With your massive stealth, you should be finding some good opportunities for it. Also the advantage on creatures that haven't acted yet will be important for our next level.
9: ROG. Take Sharpshooter. Now in the first round of combat you can murder everyone who hasn't acted with that sweet -5/+10.
10: ROG. With Uncanny Dodge and Absorb Elements, you have two solid reaction uses for defense.
11: RGR. Level 6 is meh, unless you're revised.
12: RGR. Escape the Horde is good if you want to worry less about opportunity attacks, Multiattack Defense is good if you want to worry less about dragons, mariliths and such. Take one of the spells we mentioned before.
13: RGR. Max DEX.
14: RGR. Lightning Arrow for the win.
15: RGR. A meh level, but Hide in Plain Sight can give you the biggest stealth in the game.
16: RGR: Volley gives you an at-will AOE that can hit a max of 16 people. Take Plant Growth or Protection from Energy.
17: RGR. Either raise WIS or take Resilient (CON).
18: ROG. Expertise whatever.
19: ROG: Evasion and Sneak Attack. Now you can deal 1d8+4d6+1d6 with each attack, plus 1d8 if you took Colossus Slayer. Wooooh.
20: ROG: Boost WIS or take Alert/Tough. Enjoy.

[Citan]

hi guys, thank you for all the advices. I need something playable from level 1 to level 20, with 27 points build.
Hi again.

Single-class : Eldricht Knight (note that Arcane Archer ought to be good but never had a chance to try, and not in my memory either).
Make it DEX obviously, whatever race you like.
Bump DEX at 4, pick Sharpshooter at 6, Ritual Caster Wizard at 8, then finish Crossbow Expert, 20 DEX, and Alert/Mage Slayer/Resilient: Wisdom (whatever you fancy).

You can start with a decent 14 in INT to play with Eldricht Strike later, or disregard it to have better CON instead...

Pick Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, etc...
Utility will mainly come from rituals you learn as you find spells. :)

Single-class: Hunter Ranger: pick Horde Breaker and whatever else you like. Grab Sharpshooter at 4 if you already face much cover, otherwise DEX first, then Sharpshooter, then Crossbow Expert and +2 DEX.
Same as with EK: either go 16 WIS to use offensive spells, or keep it as low as 12 and instead bump CON. Resilient: Constitution may also be more important than Crossbow Expert if you tend to rely on concentration spells in fight.
Pick at least Goodberry, Hunter's Mark, Pass Without Trace, Healing Spirit, Conjure Animals, Plant Growth and Water Breathing (unless there is a Druid in your party). Then whatever else you fancy.

Tri-class: the aforementioned Ranger/Druid/Cleric.
Druid archetype: Shepherd if you want to be the most party friendly and either cap Druid at 2 or go as high as 6 or 10. Land Druid otherwise.
Ranger archetype: Hunter if you want more versatility, otherwise Gloomstalker without any doubt.

(To maximize "yourself": go Gloomstalker / Land).

Start Ranger up to 5 (Extra Attack, Pass Without Trace, Healing Spirit). Gloomstalker may be a tad better choice simply because of the added Initiative and great spells (Rope Trick, Greater Invisibility).
Then take immediately one level of Druid to greatly expand your spell choice and also get Thorns Whip, Frostbite and whatever (I love Mold Earth personally).
Then go either...
a) "arrow nova" way: Ranger 9, then Cleric 2, then whatever (I'd strongly suggest Cleric 6 for 2 CD per rest, Shepherd Druid also gives you "advantage as reaction").
b) "lightning&thunder nova" way: Cleric 3 immediately, then whatever (i'd suggest Cleric 6 for more nova, Mountain Druid 5 for Lightning Bolt).
c) "mass control" way: Land Druid 6 then Ranger 7 (Plant Growth with Land's Stride).
d) "Beastmaster": Shepherd Druid 10.
Honestly, anything goes with this: this multiclass is as fail-safe as a Paladin/Warlock/Sorcerer mix: whatever way you go at it, once you locked your "chassis" (Ranger 5 / Druid 2 / Cleric 2) it's very hard to go wrong.

For a "most party-friendly", I'd probably go Ranger 5 > Shepherd Druid 2 > Cleric 3 > Druid 3 > Ranger 7 > Druid 5 > Ranger 9 > Cleric 6 in your place. Reasoning behind being...
- You want an archer, so Extra Attack is plain mandatory.
- Shepherd's Aura is versatile, useful every level, and every short rest: might as well take it as early as possible.
- Cleric's own Shatter should be enough as AOE nova for now: you're not a fullcaster after all, people can't expect you to be as efficient as a caster using Fireball. ;)
- By level 8/9, you are extremely useful to party overall, having somewhere around 15 spells at the ready, interchangeable for 2/3 of them.
- Upping Druid 3 first allows you to swap spells that you learned as Ranger and are now available at any time as Druid.
- Upping Druid 5 before Cleric 6 and Ranger 9 is a personal preference: I love many of the Druid's 3rd level spells and that way you get the same feeling as a level 12/13 Ranger except you swapped Volley for all 3rd level spells (barring the exclusives, that you can then grab when you reach Ranger 9).
- However, getting free Wisdom proficiency (Gloomstalker) is great, hence why I keep Ranger 7 not too far in leveling. With that said, you may prefer rushing Druid 5 to play with 3rd level spells earlier.
In fact, let's go with that. After all, why else go as high in Druid? :)

For a maximum solo, I'd swap Shepherd for Land Druid: extra spells and extra slots is always great to have.
I'd pick either Mountain 5 (Lightning Bolt), Coast 3 (Mirror Image, Misty Step), Grassland 5 (Daylight, Haste) depending on how high you balance Druid & Cleric.

Recap? Let's say you want optimal for yourself, with much utility yet big nova damage when needed.
Start Wood Elf with 17 DEX, 15 WIS, 14 CON, 10 elsewhere.
Progression (not necessarily the "best" since WIS proficiency comes very late, but the one that allows you to get to enjoy a bit of everything the earliest): Gloomstalker Ranger 5 > Druid 1 > Tempest Cleric 4 > Mountain Druid 5 > Ranger 7 > Cleric 6 > whatever.

Char level 5: "basic Ranger" with 4 spell known (Hunter's Mark, Ensnaring Strike, Pass Without Trace, Healing Spirit), bump WIS and DEX at level 4.

Char level 11: Ranger 5 / Tempest Cleric 4 / Mountain Druid 2: you now have your nova shatter, and we actually went straight up to C4 to grab another ASI that we can spend on the long-awaited Sharpshooter. ;)
In addition to that, you now have (4+4+4) + (4+2) spells prepared: keep Aid, Enhanced Ability from Cleric, Longstrider, Healing Words and Faerie Fire as Druid. Whatever else you like.

Char level 15: now we are talking: you are "spellcaster level" ~14 (considering the slot recovery of Druid).
You have 4 (Ranger) + 4 (Cleric) + 4 (Druid) "fixed spells", including Shatter and Lightning Bolt.
You have access to all Druid and Cleric spells up to level 2 and 3 respectively, with ritual casting which makes you the party powerhouse as far adventuring/investigating/healing/traveling/etc go.
Obviously you maxed WIS.

It's now due time to get WIS proficiency, unless you still want to get another CD per short rest first. ;)

Char level 20: you are caster level somewhere around level 17, meaning you can open the biggest fight with a maximized lvl 9 Lightning Bolt if you so wish. You obviously traded Pass Without Trace and Healing Spirit for exclusive Ranger spells as you took the remaining levels (Zephyr's Strike and Cordon of Arrows are the obvious choices).
More reasonably, if you finished with Ranger 9 for that "magical archer" feeling, you can cast maximized upcast 5th+ level Lightning Arrows twice per short rest, and have enough fuel for 6x such spells.
Or you could upcast Conjure Animals to get several Giant Eagle fly the whole party. ;)
Of course, that also means you can cast and drop 1st level Hunter's Mark when you need it without second thought.
Or deal a very decent amount of sustained damage all day by combining Extra Attack (action) with Flaming Sphere (bonus action) for example.

So as you end your leveling...
1) You have at least Extra Attack + Hunter's Mark, which is pretty decent for "basic sustained".

2) You are caster level ~17 taking the natural recovery of Druid into account. So you can easily blow a 1st/2nd/3rd/4th level slot as needed on Hunter's Mark / Heat Metal / Hold Person / Flaming Sphere / Spiritual Weapon / Spirit Guardians / Spike Growth when you need to amp your sustained damage for a fight.

3) You know 7 cantrips (suggestion Guidance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, Thaumaturgy, Thorns Whip, Mold Earth, Frostbite) to keep things entertaining without any cost when just weapon attacks don't cut it.

4) You have 6+6+4=14 "always-on" spells, and you can prepare up to (5+6)+(5+5)=21 spells among a selection that probably amounts to somewhere around 100 spells of 1st/2nd/3rd level. So a whooping 35 spells, which some may qualify as "overkill preparation" really. XD.

Although it's not, really, instead it lets you keep a handful of "situational" spells prepared without thinking twice.
And many of them you can ritual-cast too, so it's not like you would eat too much into your slots.
In fact, even if you had a Druid or Cleric (or both) alongside you in party, they would still be glad to have you: with someone being able to "take care" of all the "mundane spells", they could actually focus on preparing many more higher level spells, so it's a great example of party synergy.

5) And you have a frigging great ability with Wild Shape, which should not be forgotten about. ;)

"Worst", you didn't even have any difficulty leveling this character: you just branched out of normal Ranger after a while to build on the idea of "lightning sniper", cherry-picking the remaining levels as needed, and while you may have the feeling that you are leveling slow because you alternate classes, every new level brings direct synergy with the previous one by expanding encounter efficiency or adventuring flexibility, so no harm done. :)

"Worst of the worst": as I said before, what I suggested is just one way to go among others: if you'd like to play with maximized Lightning Arrows and otherwise don't care much about Druid prowesses, you could just go straight up Ranger 9 and Cleric 2. ;) On the contrary, you could drop Lightning Arrows idea and instead get even more Druid to get flying Wild Shapes and access to Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Hallucinatory Terrain or Ice Storm. Or even look into another direction, such as ditching some of the initial build to grab Arcane Trickster (Sneak Attack, Expertise, Cunning Action, more cantrips, Invisible Mage Hand, Shield and whatever).

So, would you like to play such a character? :smallbiggrin:

[Chugger]

If someone is playing AL (adv league) you hit some limits, as you're limited to the point-buy and the phb +1 other source book.

If you go Sharpshooter - and almost all good archer builds do (but as Easy Lee points out there are other ways to go if your DM will let them work!) - you need to figure out how you're going to land your -5 +10 shots. I've played an SS archer who didn't plan for that - I've seen other SS archers who didn't plan for that - and it's no fun to miss miss miss.

And with that -5 that's what you're going to do, a lot, if you don't plan for it.

That's why one person above suggested being part war cleric. You get a +10 chan div which is almost a guaranteed hit. Twice after cleric 6. If your wis is 14 you get 2 uses of the bonus action attack, too.

But mostly it's FS archery (+2) and BM's Precision (+1d8 4 times per short rest) that are going to keep you on your mark (i.e. hitting). If you can get a magic bow and magic arrows, those pluses add up and help tons. Bless (which war cleric can cast) is plus 1d4. There are a few other ways to get plusses to hit. And then there is advantage. Magic init or a one-dip in wiz to get an owl familiar - but that's an adv on one attack a round. Being a lvl 3 lock = darkness and devil's site - an elf or half elf with this and the xanathar feat (essentially rolling 3 times to hit when you have adv) is very cool and will keep you hitting.

Also you're no good to anyone if you can't get away from meleers who get in your face. A 2-dip into rogue or several other options fix this.

Be sure to factor in what would be fun for you to play. Sometimes being very powerful is actually very very boring.

[H3DG3KN1GHT]

I posted a similar thread a while back, and the consensus seemed to be that crossbow expert with sharpshooter on a fighter 2, rogue x build seemed to be the best. Fighter for the archery fighting style and action surge (plus proficiency) and then rogue for sneak attacks (thief for getting into good sniping spots, scout for other stuff). And you'd use a handcrossbow in the offhand to get extra damage.

I find it amazing that this "Crossbow Expert rules supreme" thing still is propagated as the gospel truth. Sure, you can draw a hand crossbow and get a shot off. Then you still have to have a free hand to reload the item. Crossbow Expert eliminates the "Loading" feature, but not the "Amm

"You ignore the loading quality of crossbows with which you are proficient."

However, a crossbow also has the trait "Ammunition":

"Drawing the ammunition from a Quiver, case, or other container is part of the Attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)."

In other words, you may very well hold two hand crossbows. Once you fired once, you have no free hand. See also:

Sage Advice

Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon? The short answer is no.

The first benefit of the feat lets you ignore the loading property (PH, 147) of the hand crossbow if you’re proficient with that weapon. The upshot is that you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand.

To dig deeper into this point, take a look at the following sentence in the definition of the ammunition property: “Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack.” The sentence tells us two important things. First, you’re assumed to be drawing—that is, extracting with your hand—the ammunition from a container. Second, the act of drawing the ammunition is included in the attack and therefore doesn’t require its own action and doesn’t use up your free interaction with an object on your turn.

What does that all mean for a hand crossbow? It means Crossbow Expert makes it possible to fire a hand crossbow more than once with a feature like Extra Attack, provided that you have enough ammunition and you have a hand free to load it for each shot.

[samuraijaques]

Citan is correct, in that it depends a lot on what level you're talking about, and depends somewhat on what kind of dpr you're looking for (primarily sustained vs. nova, though the other categories he mentions can also be a consideration).


Typically, when discussing archer builds, people talk about single-target dpr. That's because most archer builds are best at hitting a single target at a time, they're great for focus firing down the biggest threat, and single-target is easy to compare.

For levels 6-10 and 12-19, some kind of multiclass is going to be tops in sustained single-target dpr. But under level 5, it's straight gloomstalker ranger; 11 is straight battlemaster fighter. At 20, it's going to be battlemaster fighter again.

In general, if you're all about DPR, you're going to want to get Sharpshooter and then maximize the number of attacks you make per round. It's important to note, that while multiclassing is technically the route to do this at most given levels, there will always be some dead levels.

For example, the best archery dpr levels 3-8 is probably going to be Gloomstalker Ranger for the first 5 levels, and then battlemaster fighter 3. But if you do that, you're shooting (heh) yourself in the foot for levels 11+, since to get another attack after Ranger 5 you'll need to take fighter all the way to 11; which means you'll be character level 16 before you have as many attacks as someone that went Battlemaster 5 first, then Ranger 3, then Battlemaster 11. That second build's got the same number of attacks as the first, but gets them two levels earlier at L14, even though the first was ahead for a few levels in Tier 1 and 2 and tied for attacks in early Tier 3. And then compare that to someone that took Battlemaster all the way to L11 first, and as a result was significantly behind the multiclasses in dpr until L11, but now all of a sudden can do just as much dpr as the multiclasses...but can do it all day long, where the multiclass builds can only keep up with him for the first round of combat.

But to keep things simple, and to have a smooth leveling curve and consistent playstyle: I'd suggest at least initially just picking which of the following potential archer classes has the playstyle you like best: Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, or Warlock (specifically Hexblade). They can all do great dpr, and they all have very interesting quirks and utility that make them very different to play. You can also always add in fighter 2 or 3 to any of the other classes for better burst once you've maxed out your main class' number of attacks. You can even get fancy after that by adding in rogue, swords or whispers bards levels to keep bumping that damage while adding utility at the same time.

And honestly, even if you do want to multiclass eventually, you can't go wrong with taking Battlemaster fighter to L11 first. After that, you can start layering in Gloomstalker (to 3) and/or Rogue (to whatever) if you want to keep boosting dpr. That's in a campaign you expect to go all the way to 20. If you don't expect the campaign to spend much time above L10, then any of the archer classes will be good, with gloomstalker and some gloomstalker/fighter multiclass builds having a slight edge.

Edit: This all assumes you are using officially published classes and races. Adding in UA and Third-party stuff would likely give a very different answer.


I find it amazing that this "Crossbow Expert rules supreme" thing still is propagated as the gospel truth. Sure, you can draw a hand crossbow and get a shot off. Then you still have to have a free hand to reload the item. Crossbow Expert eliminates the "Loading" feature, but not the "Amm

"You ignore the loading quality of crossbows with which you are proficient."

However, a crossbow also has the trait "Ammunition":

"Drawing the ammunition from a Quiver, case, or other container is part of the Attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)."

In other words, you may very well hold two hand crossbows. Once you fired once, you have no free hand. See also:

Sage Advice

Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon? The short answer is no.

The first benefit of the feat lets you ignore the loading property (PH, 147) of the hand crossbow if you’re proficient with that weapon. The upshot is that you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand.

To dig deeper into this point, take a look at the following sentence in the definition of the ammunition property: “Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack.” The sentence tells us two important things. First, you’re assumed to be drawing—that is, extracting with your hand—the ammunition from a container. Second, the act of drawing the ammunition is included in the attack and therefore doesn’t require its own action and doesn’t use up your free interaction with an object on your turn.

What does that all mean for a hand crossbow? It means Crossbow Expert makes it possible to fire a hand crossbow more than once with a feature like Extra Attack, provided that you have enough ammunition and you have a hand free to load it for each shot.

You can just use a hand crossbow in one hand and use it for the bonus action attack from crossbow expert. You can't dual wield them but it's irrelevant because you're still making the exact same number of attacks

[djreynolds]

A 13 in dexterity and wisdom, allows you to grab fighter and multiclass with ranger or rogue or even monk.

A 13 in dexterity and charisma, opens up fighter, bard, and warlock builds

Archery style is huge as is sharpshooter.

Bless is nice for the extra 1d4 to hit, hex (through magic initiate) is too easy to get, precision from battlemaster (only 3 levels) is big

You have to ask yourself this.....

1. Do I want 3 attacks from 11th level fighter, volley from 11th level ranger hunter, or 2 attacks from ranger or monk? This is you chassis

1A. Archery style requires 1 of fighter or 2 of ranger... you need this

2. What are you concentrating on? Hunter's mark or hex, or bless, or haste or divine favor.... nothing!!! everyone qualifies for magic initiate

3. You have an "oft" used bonus action that is seldom used. War cleric, remember that minimum 13 wisdom, will give you wisdom modifier a day bonus action attack, cunning action, ranger spells, hex

4. Any dip of rogue gives you 1d6 extra a turn with sneak attack, 2 levels gives you cunny action... once again something for that oft used bonus action

5. Utility, stealth, buffing, debuffing, and healing... cleric and druid is an easy dip, ranger has some of this, rogue has some of it

6. Do not forget the bard class, valor bards make excellent archers who can fill in anywhere and have oodles of utility

7. You will have to enter melee, occasionally to take the heat of the tanks and soak up damage

8. I think all archers will need at least the extra attack feature minimum and archery style

[apepi]

For race try kobold. Sharpshooter + Pack Tactics is a good time.

[HMS Invincible]

For race try kobold. Sharpshooter + Pack Tactics is a good time.

Unless you're in daylight...

[Sigreid]

Unless you're in daylight...

Then it's still not a bad time with advantage and disadvantages canceling.

[Vogie]

I remember watching a youtube video mathing out that the Archer with most DPR at high level is actually a Valor Bard picking up Swift Quiver via Magical Secrets, then dipping arcane archer fighter... I can't remember which channel though...

[Master O'Laughs]

Apologies but I thought I would ask my own question instead of starting a separate thread, but which would better suit a Rogue: Scout archer for a M/C dip, Ranger:Hunter, Ranger: Gloomstalker, or Fighter: Arcane archer?

[matthewcc]

I'm not a number cruncher, but I'd like to throw out Elven Accuracy + Samurai.

With action surge and fighting spirit and elven accuracy you get 4 double-advantage shots at 5th level, and 6 double-advantage shots at 11th.

An 11th level (elven) samurai can take 9 double-advantage shots in the first two rounds. Throw in the sharpshooter feat and things get pretty bloody. Figure 4.5(d8) + 15 = 19.5 per hit, as well as a couple of crits to offset an improbable miss and that is something like 180 damage in 2 rounds without magic weapons (leaving one more fighting spirit if you still need it).

[Talionis]

Love to throw in these builds that Divine Paladin can greatly increase accuracy with its Channel Divinity ability. This can completely offset the accuracy loss from Sharpshooter. Less the 13 strength requirement, it can work well with a Hexblade Warlock that is already focusing on Charisma.

[TheUser]

Guys, it's called Wizards of the Coast

Bladesinger with a Hand Crossbow wins ;)

At level 6 you have haste and extra attack

At level 8 you have crossbow expert AND sharpshooter

At level 12 you have Elven Accuracy

at level 13 you have Simulacrum

You are now an 18 dex ranged character who has a permanent 6 attacks per round and both you and your simulacrum can haste to bring those to 8 attacks per round.

Splash 1 level into fighter for +2 to hit at any point

[sithlordnergal]

Sooooo, this build depends on how much ridiculousness your DM is willing to allow. Also, this is a joke build if it wasn't obvious. But you could go:

Race: Half Orc, or Variant Human for the free feat

Stats: Boost Strength to max, dump Int, don't worry about Dex. You won't need it.

Class: Barbarian

Feats: Tavern Brawler, Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master.

How it works:

This build depends on the wording of Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and the fact that a Longbow is a Heavy weapon and a Ranged weapon at the same time. First take Tavern Brawler to become proficient in Improvised Weapons.

Next, get Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master in any order. Because the Longbow is considered a Ranged and Heavy weapon it qualifies for both feats to be used.

Once you have both feats, run up and smack a person with a -10 to hit for +20 damage =p

And just to be clear, it does technically work by raw. Here's what Sharpshooter's -5/+10 says by RAW:

"Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage."

Here's what Great Weapon Master says:

"Before you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage"

Notice that Sharpshooter only requires an attack with a ranged weapon, where as Great Weapon Fighter requires a melee attack with a Heavy weapon. Well...Longbows are Heavy and Ranged, so you can use it as an improvised melee weapon. Which you're proficient in due to Tavern Brawler

[nickl_2000]

Sooooo, this build depends on how much ridiculousness your DM is willing to allow. Also, this is a joke build if it wasn't obvious. But you could go:

That's some quality rules lawyering!


Add a level into Fighter to get yourself the archery fighting style to hit because


Archery
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.

[sithlordnergal]

That's some quality rules lawyering!


Add a level into Fighter to get yourself the archery fighting style to hit because

Ohhh, I had not thought of the Archery fighting style. Gonna be honest though, I wasn't the one who thought of this build. X3 A fellow DM came up with it.

His entire idea was based around you being a very stupid Barbarian who claimed to be the best archer. When asked about it, he would show them his "archery" skills by smashing things with his bow.

[apepi]

I wonder how Conjure Animals/Conjure Barrage is vs say Haste or default Hunter's Mark?

Wonder because I play a Horizon Walker and fixing to hit around that level(currently 7).

[bid]

And just to be clear, it does technically work by raw.
Technically, you can use a ranged weapon to make a melee attack:
"If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage.":smallbiggrin:

With a loophole that big, who needs rule lawyers!

[beargryllz]

Assassin/fighter is probably hard to top. Crush that dex score with racial bonuses and +ability score as you level up, pickup crossbow expert and/or sharpshooter. Pick up some stealth, light armor, and other flavor that helps with mobility or granting advantage. Alert is a strong choice. Pick up investigation and thieves' tools to do some non-combat encounters.

[sithlordnergal]

I wonder how Conjure Animals/Conjure Barrage is vs say Haste or default Hunter's Mark?

Wonder because I play a Horizon Walker and fixing to hit around that level(currently 7).

Conjure Animals is either the most broken spell in existence, or the worst spell in existence depending on your DM. If your DM lets you choose what you're summoning, then it is without a doubt the deadliest spell in 5e D&D. Even more so if your DM allows Velociraptors to be summoned. Even if the DM chooses the animals, as long as the DM chooses a relatively strong cr 1/4 animal that is useful for the situation then you're fine.

But if you have a DM that actively nerfs spells like Animate Object, conjure spells, or anything that adds extra creatures that the player's control, then it sucks. Even worse, the DM in question could decide to nerf the spell without saying anything and try to take revenge by purposely giving you some of the worst cr 1/4 beasts they can find. Like goats.

As for Conjure Barrage, it's a bit tricky. Again it depends on the DM, but if I am reading it right then the spell creates a 60ft cone of identical weapons of whatever you shot. Meaning if you have non-magical ammo with an extra effect, such as being coated in poison, then the cone should duplicate the poison coating the arrows. If it does duplicate things like poison coating the arrows, then it can be a very powerful spell.

If not, go with Haste and/or Hunter's mark

[AJarOfJalapenos]

Ohhh, I had not thought of the Archery fighting style. Gonna be honest though, I wasn't the one who thought of this build. X3 A fellow DM came up with it.

His entire idea was based around you being a very stupid Barbarian who claimed to be the best archer. When asked about it, he would show them his "archery" skills by smashing things with his bow.


Out of curiosity, would going full fighter using the same method create an actual viable melee combatant, assuming you can get enough +to attack to offset the -10? At level 20 with four +20 damage attacks (8 with Action Surge), not to mention if there are any other buffs you may have received seems pretty neat.

Im fairly fresh to D&D however so I am not sure if a 80+ at will DPR without buffs is good for a melee PC.

[TheUser]

Out of curiosity, would going full fighter using the same method create an actual viable melee combatant, assuming you can get enough +to attack to offset the -10? At level 20 with four +20 damage attacks (8 with Action Surge), not to mention if there are any other buffs you may have received seems pretty neat.

Im fairly fresh to D&D however so I am not sure if a 80+ at will DPR without buffs is good for a melee PC.

Human Variant Path of Devotion Paladin 8 / Frenzy Barbarian 4

Imbue your +3 Longbow with your channel divinity and take reckless attack every turn there after.

You need Sharpshooter, GWM and Tavern Brawler as your feats. Taking Charisma as your remaining ASI.

Equip a belt of Fire Giant Strength (Strength 25)

You now have +7 to hit from Strength, +4 to hit from Charisma, +4 to hit from proficiency (thanks Tavern Brawler!) and +3 to hit from magic bonuses.
Total = +18 to hit.
You can now attack at +8 with advantage every turn.
You'd be making 3 melee attacks at 1d4+30 damage in a round if you are willing to suffer a level of exhaustion after the fact... my god...what have I done?


(as an aside, I do believe it's better to just wield a Flame Tongue Great Sword since instead of 1d4 damage it deals 4d6 damage)

[tieren]

Ranger5/druid 8/rogue7

Wildshape into a squirrel, climb a tree near the enemy camp, turn back into caster form, summon a herd of wild boar all w/ relentless, use SS to sneak attack enemies within 5 feet of the boars as they trample the enemy camp.

If you are spotted wildshape into a bird and fly away.

[Drazhar]

I'm currently playing a Gloomstalker 5 / Scout 3 build. So far I have gotten really lucky in the adventures I have been on and picked up Bracers of Archery and Oathbow (so happy I pulled that). Also of note, I have a human variant with Sharpshooter and of course went Archery type in Ranger.

currently when attack a boss in a end battle I will bonus action cast Hunter's Mark on target, then mark my Oath on said baddie, then take the Sharpshooter -5 to the roll which gets me:

1d20+4 @ advantage (thanks to Oathbow) x 2 (extra attack)
on hit
1d8+1d6 (Hunter's Mark)+3d6 (Sneak Attack)+3d6 (Oathbow)+15

Gives me an average of 41 pts of dmg on the first hit and and 32 pts on the second.

So far been having fun with him!