PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Skill Powers (PEACH)



johnbragg
2018-03-06, 08:29 AM
I'd like to build a menu of abilities available based on skills. Based on the ideas in http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?7338-Gandalf-was-only-a-Fifth-Level-Magic-User! and http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2 that hitting DCs above 25-30 is basically superhuman territory. I want to duplicate low level spell abilities, without just cut-and-pasting the spells themselves. (Yes, these are taken from my E6 Trickster project)

Prerequisites: X ranks in skill Y to qualify for a Skill Power, whether as a feat or class ability or a skill trick.

Deke
Requires: 2 ranks in Bluff, 2 ranks in Acrobatics or Tumble.
As part of a move action, you pick a space and generate the impression that you are entering it. You must move to a square (or hex) adjacent to the designated space during your movement.
Enemies that can reach that space must make a Will save, DC 10 + your Bluff modifier. On a failed save, the target spends an AOO attacking the empty space. (In Pathfinder, replace Will save with CMD your Bluff check.)

Obfuscate.
Requires: 2 ranks in Stealth
As part of your move action, you may make a Stealth check, at one-half your total modifier, even when you do not have cover or concealment. Anyone previously aware of you a reactive Perception check against your Stealth roll, and an active Perception check (move action) if they choose. You must move 10' from your starting position, and you may only move at one-half your normal speed. Requires 2 ranks in Stealth.

Higher level Skill Powers:
Winged Step
Requires: 4 ranks in Acrobatics
As a move action, you may run in a straight line up walls (1/2 movement) or across water or other liquids (full movement rate). You are assumed to still be using the Winged Step ability until you reach safety or until something stops your straight-line movement.

Rock Star.
Requires: 4 ranks in Perform
You give a performance that deeply influences all who hear it. You have an enhancement bonus to Charisma determined by your Perform check (20-24 +2, 25-29 +4, 30+ +6) on checks involving anyone who heard or saw the performance. The effect last for a number of hours equal to your Performance check - 20.

nonsi
2018-03-07, 02:06 AM
.
You might wanna check out the proposed Skill Tricks (Complete Scoundrel, page 82).

Mendicant
2018-03-09, 10:42 AM
Deke
Requires: 2 ranks in Bluff, 2 ranks in Acrobatics or Tumble.
As part of a move action, you pick a space and generate the impression that you are entering it. You must move to a square (or hex) adjacent to the designated space during your movement.
Enemies that can reach that space must make a Will save, DC 10 + your Bluff modifier. On a failed save, the target spends an AOO attacking the empty space. (In Pathfinder, replace Will save with CMD your Bluff check.)

I think rather than forcing a save/bluffing against CMD, you should have the character make a feint attempt. Who this works or doesn't work against would make a bit more sense and it'd plug into an already extant subsystem.

I have two sort of similar skill tricks that you could pick at if you want:
(The rank requirements are built using assumptions that come from a different house rule, so don't read into them too much.)

Artful Dodger
Prerequisite: Acrobatics 3 ranks
When making acrobatics checks to avoid attacks of opportunity, you gain a bonus to your acrobatics skill equal to your dodge bonus to AC vs. any AoO you would provoke.

Juke (Deke is a better word for this, and I'm going to change it.)
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 3 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks.
You may feint as an immediate action against any enemy that makes an attack of opportunity against you and misses.


Higher level Skill Powers:
Winged Step
Requires: 4 ranks in Acrobatics
As a move action, you may run in a straight line up walls (1/2 movement) or across water or other liquids (full movement rate). You are assumed to still be using the Winged Step ability until you reach safety or until something stops your straight-line movement.

Depending on what you're spending to get this, 4 ranks seems low as a prereq. Running up a 100+ foot wall with no check is a >6th level ability, IMO, and the ranks required should reflect that.


Rock Star.
Requires: 4 ranks in Perform
You give a performance that deeply influences all who hear it. You have an enhancement bonus to Charisma determined by your Perform check (20-24 +2, 25-29 +4, 30+ +6) on checks involving anyone who heard or saw the performance. The effect last for a number of hours equal to your Performance check - 20.[/QUOTE]

I'd make this a different type of bonus from enhancement. Someone who can hit 25+ consistently enough to make buying this ability worth it has probably already invested in some sort of charisma enhancer.

johnbragg
2018-03-09, 03:08 PM
I think rather than forcing a save/bluffing against CMD, you should have the character make a feint attempt. Who this works or doesn't work against would make a bit more sense and it'd plug into an already extant subsystem.

It's not the same though. Feint denies DEX to AC, Deke doesn't. And Deke would work against nonhumanoids, animals, anything that isn't mindless. You're not selling that you're about to strike THIS particular spot on a target, you're selling that you're about to move into THAT 5' square/hex and maybe eat a sword to the face.

Things like this are what makes having a unified CMB/CMD mechanic great. If your table isn't using CMB/CMD, then Will save is at least less complicated and more balanced than using Sense Motive or Sense Motive + BAB or whatever. Hmm, I'm not sure that's true now that I've typed it out. Your martial may or may not have ranks in Sense Motive, but he definitely has a terrible Will save. So yes, if you're not using CMD, Bluff vs Sense Motive + BAB is the next best thing.


I have two sort of similar skill tricks that you could pick at if you want:
(The rank requirements are built using assumptions that come from a different house rule, so don't read into them too much.)

Artful Dodger
Prerequisite: Acrobatics 3 ranks
When making acrobatics checks to avoid attacks of opportunity, you gain a bonus to your acrobatics skill equal to your dodge bonus to AC vs. any AoO you would provoke.

I had to read it a couple of times to get it right. (It's a bonus to your Athletics skill, not to AoOs you're not taking anyway.)

Juke (Deke is a better word for this, and I'm going to change it.)
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 3 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks.
You may feint as an immediate action against any enemy that makes an attack of opportunity against you and misses.
[/quote]

I think I like the idea. The enemy swings and misses, out of turn, which puts them off balance and open to your SNEAK ATTACK!



{Winged Step}
Depending on what you're spending to get this, 4 ranks seems low as a prereq. Running up a 100+ foot wall with no check is a >6th level ability, IMO, and the ranks required should reflect that.

I originally didn't include a check (or any internal limitation) because I was thinking in terms of combat rounds. The main balancer is (was) that, at the end of your turn, you're in the middle of a wall or a body of water and have to keep up winged step until you get to safety.

I'm still not sure a check is necessary--you bought the ranks, you bought the ability. There has to be a cap, however, and I'm leaning towards you can run for as many Acrobatics ranks as you have.

As for whether this is a 4th or a 6th level ability, I'd say it's more like invisibility and flaming sphere and web than it is like fly or [i]haste or fireball. But that's less important than working out the details of how it works when you do have it.

Winged STep may have been the reason that an earlier edit had everything require X ranks and +Y total modifier. If you can put together a +15 total modifier, I figure running across a river is within your range of talents. That could be 6 ranks, 3 class bonus, 5 Dex, 2 misc = +16.

So you'd need some good cheese to do it at 4th level.


[I]{Rock Star} I'd make this a different type of bonus from enhancement. Someone who can hit 25+ consistently enough to make buying this ability worth it has probably already invested in some sort of charisma enhancer.

Maybe just an untyped bonus.

Mendicant
2018-03-09, 06:02 PM
It's not the same though. Feint denies DEX to AC, Deke doesn't. And Deke would work against nonhumanoids, animals, anything that isn't mindless. You're not selling that you're about to strike THIS particular spot on a target, you're selling that you're about to move into THAT 5' square/hex and maybe eat a sword to the face.

Things like this are what makes having a unified CMB/CMD mechanic great. If your table isn't using CMB/CMD, then Will save is at least less complicated and more balanced than using Sense Motive or Sense Motive + BAB or whatever. Hmm, I'm not sure that's true now that I've typed it out. Your martial may or may not have ranks in Sense Motive, but he definitely has a terrible Will save. So yes, if you're not using CMD, Bluff vs Sense Motive + BAB is the next best thing.

To clarify, I mean that you should use the feint rules to adjudicate success or failure, not that you should change the reward for success. You make a feint and use any of your feats/class abilities that would benefit it, but instead of denying DEX you force them to waste an AoO. You can use feint to do a new thing, essentially.



I had to read it a couple of times to get it right. (It's a bonus to your Athletics skill, not to AoOs you're not taking anyway.)


Juke (Deke is a better word for this, and I'm going to change it.)
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 3 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks.
You may feint as an immediate action against any enemy that makes an attack of opportunity against you and misses.


I think I like the idea. The enemy swings and misses, out of turn, which puts them off balance and open to your SNEAK ATTACK![/QUOTE]

Yep, that's the idea. It gives melee rogues another way to get sneak attacks and creates a high risk/high reward alternative to using acrobatics to deny AoOs.


I originally didn't include a check (or any internal limitation) because I was thinking in terms of combat rounds. The main balancer is (was) that, at the end of your turn, you're in the middle of a wall or a body of water and have to keep up winged step until you get to safety.

I'm still not sure a check is necessary--you bought the ranks, you bought the ability. There has to be a cap, however, and I'm leaning towards you can run for as many Acrobatics ranks as you have.

As for whether this is a 4th or a 6th level ability, I'd say it's more like invisibility and flaming sphere and web than it is like fly[i] or [i]haste or fireball. But that's less important than working out the details of how it works when you do have it.

Winged STep may have been the reason that an earlier edit had everything require X ranks and +Y total modifier. If you can put together a +15 total modifier, I figure running across a river is within your range of talents. That could be 6 ranks, 3 class bonus, 5 Dex, 2 misc = +16.

So you'd need some good cheese to do it at 4th level.

Yeah, it has, on paper, similar utility to levitate and is clearly weaker than Fly, but OTOH casting a 2nd level spell at 4th level or a 3rd at 6th is a fairly serious investment of resources. A +15 total check makes more sense to me.

There's also a tonal disconnect, for me, in that 4th level people don't really read to me as Li Mu Bai quite yet. That's not really a critique of the mechanics though. I kind of want this to be an (E6) Epic Feat with some more utility riders baked in to ensure it makes itself felt more regularly -- stuff like, as long as you're moving in a straight line, you're immune to floor-based traps, Grease, caltrops, that sort of thing.

Mendicant
2018-03-09, 06:04 PM
It's not the same though. Feint denies DEX to AC, Deke doesn't. And Deke would work against nonhumanoids, animals, anything that isn't mindless. You're not selling that you're about to strike THIS particular spot on a target, you're selling that you're about to move into THAT 5' square/hex and maybe eat a sword to the face.

Things like this are what makes having a unified CMB/CMD mechanic great. If your table isn't using CMB/CMD, then Will save is at least less complicated and more balanced than using Sense Motive or Sense Motive + BAB or whatever. Hmm, I'm not sure that's true now that I've typed it out. Your martial may or may not have ranks in Sense Motive, but he definitely has a terrible Will save. So yes, if you're not using CMD, Bluff vs Sense Motive + BAB is the next best thing.

To clarify, I mean that you should use the feint rules to adjudicate success or failure, not that you should change the reward for success. You make a feint and use any of your feats/class abilities that would benefit it, but instead of denying DEX you force them to waste an AoO. You can use feint to do a new thing, essentially.




I had to read it a couple of times to get it right. (It's a bonus to your Athletics skill, not to AoOs you're not taking anyway.)

Yeah it needs editing. The idea is to get rid of some of the anti-synergy between stuff like Mobility and, well, being mobile.


Juke (Deke is a better word for this, and I'm going to change it.)
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 3 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks.
You may feint as an immediate action against any enemy that makes an attack of opportunity against you and misses.


I think I like the idea. The enemy swings and misses, out of turn, which puts them off balance and open to your SNEAK ATTACK!

Yep, that's the idea. It gives melee rogues another way to get sneak attacks and creates a high risk/high reward alternative to using acrobatics to deny AoOs.


I originally didn't include a check (or any internal limitation) because I was thinking in terms of combat rounds. The main balancer is (was) that, at the end of your turn, you're in the middle of a wall or a body of water and have to keep up winged step until you get to safety.

I'm still not sure a check is necessary--you bought the ranks, you bought the ability. There has to be a cap, however, and I'm leaning towards you can run for as many Acrobatics ranks as you have.

As for whether this is a 4th or a 6th level ability, I'd say it's more like invisibility and flaming sphere and web than it is like fly[i] or [i]haste or fireball. But that's less important than working out the details of how it works when you do have it.

Winged STep may have been the reason that an earlier edit had everything require X ranks and +Y total modifier. If you can put together a +15 total modifier, I figure running across a river is within your range of talents. That could be 6 ranks, 3 class bonus, 5 Dex, 2 misc = +16.

So you'd need some good cheese to do it at 4th level.

Yeah, it has, on paper, similar utility to levitate and is clearly weaker than Fly, but OTOH casting a 2nd level spell at 4th level or a 3rd at 6th is a fairly serious investment of resources. A +15 total check makes more sense to me.

There's also a tonal disconnect, for me, in that 4th level people don't really read to me as Li Mu Bai quite yet. That's not really a critique of the mechanics though. I kind of want this to be an (E6) Epic Feat with some more utility riders baked in to ensure it makes itself felt more regularly -- stuff like, as long as you're moving in a straight line, you're immune to floor-based traps, Grease, caltrops, that sort of thing.



,

johnbragg
2018-03-09, 07:59 PM
To clarify, I mean that you should use the feint rules to adjudicate success or failure, not that you should change the reward for success. You make a feint and use any of your feats/class abilities that would benefit it, but instead of denying DEX you force them to waste an AoO. You can use feint to do a new thing, essentially.

I agree that BAB + Sense motive (Feint success rules) > Will save. But I think that CMD is better than either one, partially because it's a unified mechanic and people don't have to learn a new mechanic for every feat or ability or whatever.


Yeah it needs editing. The idea is to get rid of some of the anti-synergy between stuff like Mobility and, well, being mobile.

I think just removing the part about "vs. any AoO you would provoke."

When making acrobatics checks to avoid attacks of opportunity, you gain a bonus to your acrobatics skill equal to your dodge bonus to AC.

That's much clearer, and in situations (like the Dodge feat) where your dodge bonus vs Thisguy is different than your bonus vs Thatguy, your "dodge bonus to AC" is changing.


Yep, that's the idea. It gives melee rogues another way to get sneak attacks and creates a high risk/high reward alternative to using acrobatics to deny AoOs.

Hmm, you're *inviting* AoOs to set up sneak attacks, not just being opportunistic. I must ponder on this.


Yeah, it has, on paper, similar utility to levitate and is clearly weaker than Fly, but OTOH casting a 2nd level spell at 4th level or a 3rd at 6th is a fairly serious investment of resources. A +15 total check makes more sense to me.

There's also a tonal disconnect, for me, in that 4th level people don't really read to me as Li Mu Bai quite yet.

I need to add the "+ Y total modifiers" back in. And for me, tonally, Winged STep is at the limit of a 4th level martial's power--you have to put a lot of build resources into getting that +15 modifier, resources that you can't use somewhere else (mostly--points in Dex have many uses, etc). Plus the feat or Rogue talent or skill points you spend to get Winged Step.


That's not really a critique of the mechanics though. I kind of want this to be an (E6) Epic Feat with some more utility riders baked in to ensure it makes itself felt more regularly -- stuff like, as long as you're moving in a straight line, you're immune to floor-based traps, Grease, caltrops, that sort of thing.

I remember a rogue or ninja talent or maybe ranger about moving full movement over difficult terrain. I'd want to cross-reference against that one. Part of the limitation on winged step is that it's not something an adventurer will find useful 10 times a day. Climbing and swimming are less risky ways to get where you're going.