Necromancer Build

[TheFateless]

Greetings, Readers.

I am with one of my players who just joined my campaign (he's coming in at level 7) and wanted to build a DragonBornc necromancer in my 3.5 homebrew campaign.
we are both new to the idea but thought it would be really fun and fit the campaign's dark theme. any ideas on how to build a necromancer. nothing too OP the campaign is a fun kinda slow passed. I lever very slowly after 7.

[Magemakeboom]

I've always loved the dread necromancer from heroes of horror and I feel they are not too overpowered as their area of expertise is pretty limited.
Then there are some great feats in libris mortis. Corpsecrafter and a feats progression line in which your mere presence bolsters your minions (I can't remember what they are called at this time).
Tomb-tainted sould gives you unlimited healing for yourself. And if you want to suck the life out of your enemies... profane life-leech is entertaining.

[Falontani]

Dread Necromancer from heroes of horror
Death Master from Dragon Compendium
True Necromancer from Libris Mortis
Master of Shrouds from Libris Mortis
Pale Master from Libris Mortis
Wizard specializing in necromancy
Master Specialist Necromancy Wizard
Cleric focusing on necromancy

and to shamelessly advertise

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?552665-Dragonmark-of-Death
Death Marked a homebrew prestige class I made for necromancy in Eberron

[gorfnab]

What books do you have access to?
Any specific character building guidelines?
What are the builds of the rest of the party?
What role in the party will this character fill?
Estimated character wealth or magic item resources available?

The more information about how characters are built in your campaign, the more information we can provide to help you.

Some light reading material that should give you some ideas.
Revised Necromancer Handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2733)
Reanimated Dread Necromancer Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?214212-Reanimated-Dread-Necromancer-Handbook)

[AnimeTheCat]

Necromancers are commonly known for "minionmancy", or having undead minions that do the combat and fighting stuffs for them. Because of this, Clerics are typically viewed as the "better" class for being a necromancer. They get access to the animate dead line of spells more quickly than their arcane equals (wizard/sorcerer) and they also get rebuke undead, granting them additional HD of undead to control. A level 7 wizard can control 28 HD of undead via the animate dead line of spells, but a cleric of equal level can control 28 HD of undead AND an additional 7 HD of undead from rebuke undead. The caveat to this is that a wizard, by virtue of alternate class features in the Necromancy Specialist line, can create fewer stronger undead, and have a scaling Skeletal minion that follows them and does their bidding. Both classes can make use of the Corpsecrafter feats (already mentioned by TheFateless). Necromancy Specialists can forego their bonus spells from being a specialist wizard to grant +4 strength and dexterity to all undead they create.

I know a fair bit about corpsecrafter and wizard specialists so if you're interested in more info on those let me know. as for Dred Necromancer, mentioned already by TheFateless, I know a lot less about so I won't be able to be of much assistance when it comes to that class.

[BlackOnyx]

Dread Necromancer from heroes of horror
Death Master from Dragon Compendium
True Necromancer from Libris Mortis
Master of Shrouds from Libris Mortis
Pale Master from Libris Mortis
Wizard specializing in necromancy
Master Specialist Necromancy Wizard
Cleric focusing on necromancy



Falontani pretty much covered most of your basic options here. The specific build depends on the playstyle your necromancer wants to pursue.


Speaking from my experiences with my current character, if you're interested in a more well rounded and knowledge-driven necromancer (or if you prefer divine magic), I'd recommend taking a look at playing a Cloistered Cleric that focuses on necromancy as an ideal.


Class Features:


6 + Int skill points, an extra domain (knowledge), and rebuking make for some useful class abilities from the start. Add to it the vast repertoire of cleric spells that every cleric has access to, and you have a skill monkey with a spell for almost any situation, given adequate time to prepare. (Spontaneous inflict spells also help if you're looking to focus on managing undead.)


Though you do take a small knock in the combat department (d6 vs d8 hit dice, poor BAB), a quick casting of Divine Power (Clr 4) negates the issue (if you're looking to indulge in melee combat).


The nice thing with clerics is that they know all their spells from the get-go (including necromacy ones). Though arcane casters (specifically wizards) boast a wider variety of necro spells*, their ability to master their list depends on how easy it is to obtain new scrolls or spellbook access.


(*That said, it is worth noting that the Spell Domain features Anyspell and Greater Anyspell, which allow clerics to use lower level wizard spells through scrolls and spellbooks.)


PrCs:


As for PrCs, there are a couple that tie in well with a knowledge-driven cleric necromancer, namely Paragnostic Apostle (Complete Champion) and Contemplative (Complete Divine).


Paragnostic Apostle is one of the few PrCs that advances turning/rebuking and divine casting at every level. It also provides 4+Int skill points and access to small "powers" at every level. (The "see through the veil" power increases the caster's effective turning/rebuking level and can be taken up to three times over the course of the five level PrC.)


Contemplative doesn't advance rebuking, but it does offer *another* additional domain for your character at the first level in the progression. A good single level "dip" once you meet the prerequisites.


Domains:


-Knowledge (+1 divination CL)
-Trickery (bluff, disguise, and hide as class skills)
-Deathbound (allows you to create more undead at once)
-Undeath (provides extra turning feat)
-Death (death touch)
-Necromancer (Eberron, +1 necromancy CL)
-Spell
-Magic
-Evil (+1 to evil spell CL)
-Planning (extend spell as a feat)


Feats:


Depends greatly on your playstyle, but a few I've found particularly useful/interesting:


-Corpsecrafter Feat Line (Libris Mortis)
-Domain Spontaneity (burn one of your many turn attempts to have access to your domain spells at any time)
-Necromantic Presence (Libris Mortis)
-Necromantic Might (Libris Mortis)
-Fell Drain/Animate/etc. (Libris Mortis)
-Chain Spell
-Crafting Feats (Wondrous Items, Contigent Spell, etc.)



As for useful spell options (regardless of class), your dragonborn friend might be interested in using the Zombie Dragon and Skeletal Dragon templates from the Draconomicon.


They work with a basic casting of animate dead and create mindless undead dragons that retain some of their abilities unlike the usual zombie/skeleton variants. They also allow for creation of undead above the usual 20 HD cap (if necessary).


The spell haunt shift, from Libris Mortis, is also a useful one if you're looking to transport your undead more covertly. You can transfer the essence of an undead of up to 8HD into an object, allowing it to possess the object (like an animated object) and/or manifest as an undead creature at will.

[NecroDancer]

There is also the necrocarnate (I think I spelled that right) from magic of incarnium, although it uses a different magic system that i only half undstand all be careful.

[Segev]

For arcane necromancers, Precocious Apprentice for command undead can let you get a few minions at lower level, if your GM lets you hunt down mindless undead.

If you can get ahold of a trio of Slaymates (monsters from Libris Mortis) and take the Chain Spell metamagic feat, you can have your one casting of it hit up to your CL+1 targets. Use this on your Slaymates if you're worried about their loyalty; it's a Charm-like effect on them. You should only need 1 casting every 1-2 days to keep them around. Better if you can just use Diplomacy to keep them on-side, though. Save the chain command undead for skeletons.

[Falontani]

There is also the necrocarnate (I think I spelled that right) from magic of incarnium, although it uses a different magic system that i only half undstand all be careful.

Necrocarnum you can with full levels deal max HP damage to yourself = the HD of the target to animate the target as an Incarnum Zombie (much more powerful than traditional zombies, but otherwise much weaker than many other traditional types of undead); You can only have 1 animated until later when you get a second. If built correctly can be interesting but will always be a subpar necromancer. That said if you are pursuing necromancy in a T4 game...

[ShurikVch]

to build a DragonBornc necromancerNote: a lot of Necromancy spells are [evil]; your friend's PC should avoid them like a plague, or Bahamut will punish him
The Dread Necromancer is strait out - because Dread Necromancers are Evil

[Falontani]

Note: a lot of Necromancy spells are [evil]; your friend's PC should avoid them like a plague, or Bahamut will punish him
The Dread Necromancer is strait out - because Dread Necromancers are Evil
Any non-good. And arcane spellcasters can use evil magic for good.

[ShurikVch]

Any non-good. And arcane spellcasters can use evil magic for good.While Neutral alignment is, indeed, possible it's complicated by the rather specific spell list of Dread Necromancer - there are so much [evil] spells!

And discussion about "using evil for good" was resolved long long time ago:
CASTING EVIL SPELLS
Evil spells may create undead, inflict undue suffering, harm another's soul, or produce any of a slew of similar effects. Sometimes, a nonevil spellcaster can get away with casting a few evil spells, as long as he or she does not do so for an evil purpose. But the path of evil magic leads quickly to corruption and destruction.
Spells have the evil descriptor because they do one or more of the following things.
• They cause undue suffering or negative emotions.
• They call upon evil gods or energies.
• They create, summon, or improve undead or other evil monsters.
• They harm souls.
• They involve unsavory practices such as cannibalism or drug use.
ENDS AND MEANS
When do good ends justify evil means to achieve them? Is it morally acceptable, for example, to torture an evil captive in order to extract vital information that can prevent the deaths of thousands of innocents? Any good character shudders at the thought of committing torture, but the goal of preventing thousands of deaths is undeniably a virtuous one, and a neutral character might easily consider the use of torture in such a circumstance. With evil acts on a smaller scale, even the most virtuous characters can find themselves tempted to agree that a very good end justifies a mildly evil means. Is it acceptable to tell a small lie in order to prevent a minor catastrophe? A large catastrophe? A world-shattering catastrophe?
In the D&D universe, the fundamental answer is no, an evil act is an evil act no matter what good result it may achieve. A paladin who knowingly commits an evil act in pursuit of any end no matter how good still jeopardizes her paladinhood. Any exalted character risks losing exalted feats or other benefits of celestial favor if he commits any act of evil for any reason. Whether or not good ends can justify evil means, they certainly cannot make evil means any less evil.
Some good characters might view a situation where an evil act is required to avert a catastrophic evil as a form of martyrdom: "I can save a thousand innocent lives by sacrificing my purity." For some, that is a sacrifice worth making, just as they would not hesitate to sacrifice their lives for the same cause. After all, it would simply be selfish to let innocents die so a character can hang on to her exalted feats.
Unfortunately, this view is ultimately misguided. This line of thinking treats the purity of the good character’s soul as a commodity (like her exalted feats) that she can just give up or sacrifice like any other possession. In fact, when an otherwise good character decides to commit an evil act, the effects are larger than the individual character. What the character sees as a personal sacrifice is actually a shift in the universal balance of power between good and evil, in evil’s favor. The consequences of that single evil act, no matter how small, extend far beyond the single act and involve a loss to more than just the character doing the deed. Thus, it is not a personal sacrifice, but a concession to evil, and thus unconscionable.

[Falontani]

The only crunch you linked was what constitutes an Evil spell. The rest is fluff from splat books.

Being neutral on the good–evil axis usually represents a lack of commitment one way or the other, but for some it represents a positive commitment to a balanced view. While acknowledging that good and evil are objective states, not just opinions, these folk maintain that a balance between the two is the proper place for people, or at least for them.

You're in Control: You control alignment changes, not the players. If a player says, "My neutral good character becomes chaotic good," the appropriate response from you is "Prove it."
Alignment Change Is Gradual: Changes in alignment should not be drastic. Usually, a character changes alignment only one step at a time - from lawful evil to lawful neutral, for example, and not directly to neutral good. A character on her way to adopting another alignment may have other alignments during the transition to the final alignment.
Time Requirements: Changing alignmment usually takes time. Changes of heart are rarely sudden (although they can be). What you want to avoid is a player changing her character's alignment to evil to use an evil artifact properly and then changing it right back when she's done. Alignments aren't garments you can take off and put on casually. Require an interval of at least a week of game time between alignment changes.
Indecisiveness Indicates Neutrality: Wishy-washy characters should just be neutral. If a character changes alignment over and over again during a campaign, what's really happened is that character hasn't made a choice, and thus she is neutral.

Seems to me if you strive to be good (and actually are good in alignment) yet your alignment is changing down due to the casting of evil spells you get stuck at Neutral.
If alignment restrictions need only be met when taking a feat you can start as a good aligned character and take the Consecrate Spell and apply its effects to your evil spells, now you have a spell with both the good and evil tag. Congratulations your alignment will nevermore move due to the casting of evil spells

[NecroDancer]

You could maybe refluff to be a dragonborn of Tiamat. Perhaps you use to be a virtuous dragonborn but lost your memories and decided to pursue necromancy

[LordofBones]

You could maybe refluff to be a dragonborn of Tiamat. Perhaps you use to be a virtuous dragonborn but lost your memories and decided to pursue necromancy

Poor Falazure, forgotten again.

[ShurikVch]

The only crunch you linked was what constitutes an Evil spell. The rest is fluff from splat books.Not only.
The very first quote was from the Chapter 1: The Nature of Evil:
This chapter deals with the basics of evil and evil acts. It provides advice on creating villains and examples of how to incorporate the ideas in this book into your campaign. Rules are given for various evil predilections that villains might have, such as cannibalism and addiction. Here you’ll find many examples of evil cultures, characters, places, and gods that you can put to use in your D&D games.According to the chapter, Evil Acts are:

Lying
Cheating
Theft
Betrayal
Murder
Vengeance
Worshiping Evil Gods and Demons
Animating the Dead or Creating Undead
Casting Evil Spells
Damning or Harming Souls
Consorting with Fiends
Creating Evil Creatures
Using Others for Personal Gain
Greed
Bullying and Cowing Innocents
Bringing Despair
Tempting OthersAs we can see from the list, casting evil spells is the Evil Act, along with animating/creating undead, or Evil creatures in general


Seems to me if you strive to be good (and actually are good in alignment) yet your alignment is changing down due to the casting of evil spells you get stuck at Neutral.
If alignment restrictions need only be met when taking a feat you can start as a good aligned character and take the Consecrate Spell and apply its effects to your evil spells, now you have a spell with both the good and evil tag. Congratulations your alignment will nevermore move due to the casting of evil spellsIt's not just about the alignment:
Tarnished Dragonborn
As an individual dedicates her life to Bahamut's cause and becomes a dragonborn, she is committing herself to fighting against Tiamat's spawn. She must do this to the best of her ability. Reasonable breaks from this activity for gaining allies, recuperating from battle, and gathering resources are permitted, but any form of evil behavior is not.
The Platinum Dragon does not tolerate wicked deeds on the part of his children. A single instance might be overlooked if the dragonborn immediately makes good through an atonement spell. Indulging unrepentantly in iniquity, committing repeated forbidden acts, or converting to an evil philosophy provokes Bahamut to anger and action.
In these situations, an aspect of Bahamut appears to chastise the transgressor. In cases of all but the most hideous of crimes, the dragonborn is first given a warning by the aspect and instruction in the proper course of action. If she is penitent, the dragonborn must perform a redemptive act to prove her reform, often in the form of a quest to slay a particularly villainous spawn of Tiamat or to aid the cause of one of Bahamut's allies.
If the dragonborn refuses to atone for her evil ways, Bahamut renounces her as his child and takes back the dragonborn form he granted her. A tarnished dragonborn feels her skin crack, peel, and slough off. Her limbs twist, and her form distorts. This painful process of transformation reversal lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Hit Dice and deals 2d6 points of damage per round. At the end of this change, regardless of whether she survives, the dragonborn returns to her original race and form.Thus, not just Evil alignment, but even the Evil acts are forbidden
I mean - unless you going to atone more often than bath...



You could maybe refluff to be a dragonborn of Tiamat.You mean - Dragonspawn? It may work...

Perhaps you use to be a virtuous dragonborn but lost your memories and decided to pursue necromancyThis plot twist may last just up to the first angry talk from aspect of Bahamut

[Falontani]

Snip
still quoting splatbooks and those that must keep their upstanding alignment. I do not argue that casting [evil] spells is an evil act, but committing evil acts alone while striving to be good does not cause you to fall to Evil.

A GOOD person (someone that is doing everything an exalted character would be doing) that casts [Evil] Spells is neither EVIL nor are they GOOD. The fact that they are doing good is balanced by the fact that they use evil. This IS what druids are supposed to do to maintain neutrality.

As I have quoted in the Dungeon Master's Guide (one of the 3 books that are absolutely required to play Dungeons and Dragons 3.5) this is a completely legitimate alignment. It is the grey zone that is allowed. It is the definition of Neutrality.

I am not arguing that someone otherwise neutral using evil spells would turn evil. That is exactly what would happen. However I am arguing that someone that is by their very nature a Good aligned person using evil magic does not make them evil.
[/Rant On]

Tarnished Dragonborn
As an individual dedicates her life to Bahamut's cause and becomes a dragonborn, she is committing herself to fighting against Tiamat's spawn. She must do this to the best of her ability. Reasonable breaks from this activity for gaining allies, recuperating from battle, and gathering resources are permitted, but any form of evil behavior is not. Bahamut is a Good deity blessing a creature with what is akin to bestowing paladin status on them. As with a paladin there is not allowed to be any grays. You are either Evil or you are Good. You can not be good while doing evil. That is called Black and White.



Lying
Cheating
Theft
Betrayal
Murder
Vengeance
Worshiping Evil Gods and Demons
Animating the Dead or Creating Undead
Casting Evil Spells
Damning or Harming Souls
Consorting with Fiends
Creating Evil Creatures
Using Others for Personal Gain
Greed
Bullying and Cowing Innocents
Bringing Despair
Tempting Others
Going by this list Robin Hood (the very epitome of Chaotic Good) would be Evil. No ifs ands or buts. Robin Hood who steals from the rich and gives to the poor is now unequivocally Evil. As is EVERY ROGUE that has ever played a rogue how rogues are supposed to be played (You know, like the rogue in Order of the Stick) Yup going by these rules, she is ALSO evil. The bard, EVIL he lies. The most "GOOD" person in Order of the Stick happens to be evil according to these rules. Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds are both WRONG when it comes to Good and Evil. They exemplify themselves to the extremes. You will also note that in Book of Exalted Deeds that the use of ANY poison is evil, however their Ravages (which are re skinned poisons) are not evil.
[/Rant Off]
Just noticed you were talking about the Dragonborn part. I thought you were talking about the nonevil part. I apologize and admit I'm wrong on the Dragonborn part