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HidesHisEyes
2018-03-06, 04:07 PM
Just been reading this article from the always interesting Justin Alexander and it got me thinking.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4238/roleplaying-games/the-art-of-rulings

There’s always a line in the sand where you rule that “beyond this point, using game mechanics to abstract what is happening becomes more fun than making definite choices about what a character is doing.”

You have to decide where that line should be. I think most of us can agree it should be after “I pick the lock” but before “I insert my lockpick and start wiggling”, unless the group has very specific tastes and the DM is willing to do some pretty serious research on the real world mechanics of lockpicking. Imagine playing this way in combat:

“I attack the orc with my sword.”
“Ok. The orc is raising his shield at a 52 degree angle while readying his axe for a downward slice. What body part are you aiming for and are you slashing or thrusting?”
And so on until the combat is resolved without a single dice roll.

At the other end of the spectrum:
“You are standing at the entrance to the dungeon. What do you do?”
“I enter the dungeon and explore it carefully, avoiding direct confrontation with monsters, with the aim of getting as much treasure as possible and escaping intact.”
“Make a Dungeoneering check.”
“14.”
“You explore the dungeon, fight some kobolds and a gelatinous cube, lose 20 hit points but escape with 96 gold pieces’ worth of treasure.”

That’s probably enough but if you feel like indulging me:
“You’re an adventurer in a fantasy world. What do you do?”
“I strike out into the world with the intention of using my wits and my various abilities and skills to fight evil, make the world a better place and get rich in the process.”
“Calculate the average of your ability bonuses and add your proficiency bonus. Roll a d20 and add that number.”
“14.”
“You have a reasonably successful adventuring career, you save a couple of towns from impending doom, you slay a dragon at one point, you almost die a couple of times, but ultimately you find enough treasure to retire to a comfortable life as a married innkeeper with a couple of cool scars and stories to tell, and live to a ripe old age, occasionally missing your adventuring days, sometimes waking up from nightmares involving mindflayers, but most of the time just thankful for the gift of life as you kiss your spouse, gaze on the face of your sleeping child or just enjoy smoking your pipe and watching the sun set behind the mountains. Good job.”

No, I don’t have any particular thoughts about how this should actually inform how we run games, except to point out that traps seem to be a particular sticking point. A lot of people seem to think traps are boring when we abstract them to the point of “make a roll to detect the trap, make another roll to disarm it” - but it’s often more work than seems worthwhile to figure out the details of every trap to the point where players can resolve it with the right sequence of defined choices. And yet many of us would like to include traps in our games. Anyone have any ideas on where to draw the abstraction line when it comes to traps?

Pelle
2018-03-07, 04:56 AM
Don't abstract what you want your game to be about. Abstract what you (and the rest of the group) don't want to spend in-game time on.

If you enjoy role-playing out conversations with npcs, do that. If not, just roll Cha. If you want your game to be about wilderness survival, track rations and encumbrance. If not, just handwave that. If you want your game to be about exploring and looting a dungeon, play that out. If that's just a minor thing in your epic political campaign, I see no problem rolling Dungeoneering for it. If you enjoy detailing personal combat, don't abstract it.

As for traps, if I include them I want them to actually have a purpose in-setting. Defence, warning, scaring people away etc. I therefore want to handle them as puzzles, with clues that can be deduced from the situation. The owners have a reason for having them, which can be expected by the players. Throwing in a random trap just for the Rogue to roll past makes no sense to me, then I rather not include any. If there is a very logical reason for a trap being present, but none at the table enjoys puzzling out how to avoid it, sure go ahead and abstract it. Then it is not really what you want your game to be about.

Cespenar
2018-03-07, 05:13 AM
Don't abstract what you want your game to be about. Abstract what you (and the rest of the group) don't want to spend in-game time on.

This is basically as solid and simple as any advice can hope to get. It's the crux of a good design, not only in D&D but in many other branchs as well.

In fact, this is even good life advice.

HidesHisEyes
2018-03-07, 06:18 AM
This is basically as solid and simple as any advice can hope to get. It's the crux of a good design, not only in D&D but in many other branchs as well.

In fact, this is even good life advice.

Agreed, that seems like a good rule of thumb, thanks Pelle.

Having said that, I may well go ahead and codify a rules system for running the 100% abstracted campaign. “Speed D&D: play an entire campaign in under a minute!” How much would you pay for it in DMs Guild?

😉

Florian
2018-03-07, 06:28 AM
Having said that, I may well go ahead and codify a rules system for running the 100% abstracted campaign. “Speed D&D: play an entire campaign in under a minute!” How much would you pay for it in DMs Guild?

Nothing. I already have my Traveller books.

Darth Ultron
2018-03-07, 08:02 AM
Anyone have any ideas on where to draw the abstraction line when it comes to traps?

I put much more detail into traps, so that all characters can at least try to avoid them, go around them or even disable them. Generally, making a Trap a bit more of an Encounter. You can skip the simple traps, the focus here is much more on the big, complicated traps. So just do the roll for the blade in the lock key hole, but make an encounter out of the ''room fills with water'' trap.

dps
2018-03-07, 06:37 PM
This is basically as solid and simple as any advice can hope to get. It's the crux of a good design, not only in D&D but in many other branchs as well.



Yeah, it's why supply is generally handled pretty abstractly in most wargames.