Help with surviving a "bad/incapable" DM

[EkulNagrom]

So to make a long story short, my friends and I always get together on Saturday evenings and do D&D. We take turns being DM, with each person getting a chance to attempt to tell a story (unless they pass). It has worked really well for us, with one exception.

WARNING: I will probably rant and go into too much detail

One member of our group is a really bad DM. He's also super nice, super oblivious and very likely to get his feelings hurt (to the point of depression and calling off events) if we tell him there's something we don't like about his campaign.

My problem is that this bad DM has had his turn come up again, and it's REALLY boring. He's the kind of player who obsesses over damage numbers and most of his characters have show no emotions beyond slight amusement when he's threatened. I think he really only DMs because he wants the attention of being in charge and because he wants to tell a story. (Unfortunately, his idea of a story is "DM monologues about the city and something happens and then the bad guy says 'you'll never catch me' and gets away and leaves his minions and we kill them and then we bushwhack to the next area: repeat")

I've looked at guides about Bad DMs, but most of them are about abusive DMs or DMs with no backbone. This DM isn't abusive or spineless, his story and campaign just have no personality. He tells us what to do, he monologues about what happens and whats going to happen next, and then sort of gives us a "free for all" time while we walk to the next city where we can do anything we want but won't affect the story at all. We basically have no free will at all in his stories, and all of our characters act unlike their actual personality because he tells us that they act like HIS characters.

I've tried talking to him about ways we can try and fix the campaign, but he just nods and then says he has to go somewhere and leaves. My other friends who play with us tell me that HE tells them about how mean I was being. So instead of waiting for the campaign to end so we can move on to another DM, I'm looking for help.

HELP!!!!

[Nifft]

Sounds like this guy suffers from some kind of social disability, plus also low self-esteem.


1 - Talk one-on-one to everyone else in the group. Find out if they're happy with the DM's (bad) game or not.

2 - If at least some of them are also dissatisfied, talk to them about how you might approach the subject in a way that's not mean. (Being mean wasn't your intention, after all. Plus, he'll talk to them, and they'll presumably tell him that you asked them how to not be mean -- just like they told you that he said you were being mean. If they're going to gossip, use that to your advantage.)

[Unoriginal]

Do you think you could talk about those concerns with your group without issues?

Hypothetically, what would happen if your character tried to not follow the railroad?

[JNAProductions]

Talk to him. Try giving tips to spice up the adventure, or whatnot. Be positive and kind, but firm.

And, as a last resort, tell him you'd rather not game with him. Nothing against him as a person-his games just aren't fun for you.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Give him a premade to run? In a polite way of course.

[smcmike]

This is a very tough spot. I’m afraid your best option is to find a way to reset your DM rotation scheme. Not everyone can DM well, and I don’t think a few tips or a frank conversation are going to solve your friend’s problem.

So, here’s what you need to do: find someone better who is excited to run a loooooong campaign. Get everyone hyped about this new campaign, including your friend. Draw the current campaign to a conclusion. Don’t go back to rotating.

[EkulNagrom]

Low self esteem is correct. His brothers were never super nice to him.

Right now, if I didn't follow the railroad, I'll bet my character will die. That seems to be the way my DM just gets rid of problems. (He has a god level character running around that instakills everything we can't handle. Like our party runs into a ancient black dragon and ZAP! I'd probably just get ZAPPED too.)

But like always, talking about it together seems to be the right answer. I do think some of my friends gossip about it, so I should be able to use that.

Luckily, once it's all over, I'm the next DM. And I don't plan to stop DMing for as long as possible.

One last question: In the case of someone with low self esteem, would a group of people telling him how we'd like to help be a better option than one friend trying to help by himself? Or to word it different, should I get the whole group involved?

[MxKit]

I've looked at guides about Bad DMs, but most of them are about abusive DMs or DMs with no backbone. This DM isn't abusive or spineless, his story and campaign just have no personality.:smallcool:

See, I wouldn't call him "abusive," exactly, but the problem definitely doesn't sound like just "boring" either. Those guides might be of more use than you think if you break down a lot of what you've said in this very post:


very likely to get his feelings hurt (to the point of depression and calling off events) if we tell him there's something we don't like about his campaign... think he really only DMs because he wants the attention of being in charge and because he wants to tell a story... He tells us what to do... all of our characters act unlike their actual personality because he tells us that they act like HIS characters... I've tried talking to him about ways we can try and fix the campaign, but he just nods and then says he has to go somewhere and leaves. My other friends who play with us tell me that HE tells them about how mean I was being.

So, he DMs because of power tripping reasons, he bosses you around and tells you how to play your characters and refuses to let you do otherwise, and he knows that this isn't how any of the rest of you run your games because he plays with you. On top of that, he shuts you down if you try to talk to him about being dissatisfied with some element of the campaign, pretends to agree and cuts you off and leaves, then tries to ****-talk you to mutual friends and paint you as a bad person, or even flat-out goes "look at how much you're hurting me, I'm taking my ball and not playing."

Now, Nifft might be right, this might be a "social disability plus low self esteem" problem. It also might be "manipulative douchebag" problem. You know this guy better than any of us, so you'll have a better idea which category he falls into more, I'm sure, but a lot of the specific bits I've quoted above in conjunction with one another make me very leery and really don't seem to fit with the "he's really super nice" thing, especially villainizing you to your mutual friends behind your back. (Has he ever tried to tell you about how mean one of your other mutual friends was being to him?)

Either way, I still agree with Nifft that your best option is to talk to the other players about it, see if anyone else is actually having fun with the games that he runs. Remember that you don't actually have to wait for the campaign to end, you can decide it's not working out and try something new, you can tell him that it's just not working for any of you and you don't think you're a good fit for his DMing style. This is especially true if he's not only uninterested in accepting any feedback, but is passive-aggressively hostile towards it.

[Chugger]

You're screwed if it really is unfixable - but if you do anything about it he'll be so hurt his life is ruined.

Try an online MMO and just stop playing DnD a while?

[Demonslayer666]

We also rotate GMs, and we are all close friends, and I have learned that I have to take the good with the bad. It gives me a much needed break so I don't get burnt out and I can work on my stuff.

Don't go in with high expectations, and just take it for what it's worth. Enjoy the ride and try to have fun.

If you are getting zero enjoyment out of it, skip a few sessions, encourage someone else to step in, or offer to run yours.

Make sure to let him know that you'd like him to be open to discussing his game. It's too bad he's taking it personally.

[Unoriginal]

Make sure to explain your side of the story rationally, and to all the other people involved.

The guy wants to have working-for-free actors portraying the characters in his novel, he doesn't want to play RPGs with you, from what you said.

[Oramac]

It sounds like his games are a lot of railroaded combat to me.

There's a lot of good suggestions above. If none of that works and you still want to play with that group (and thus in his games), just tailor-build your character to that combat system.

"I am Bob the Barbarian! I don't care about anything except smashing the skulls of my enemies into fine powder!"

[Nifft]

Low self esteem is correct. His brothers were never super nice to him.

Right now, if I didn't follow the railroad, I'll bet my character will die. That seems to be the way my DM just gets rid of problems. (He has a god level character running around that instakills everything we can't handle. Like our party runs into a ancient black dragon and ZAP! I'd probably just get ZAPPED too.)

But like always, talking about it together seems to be the right answer. I do think some of my friends gossip about it, so I should be able to use that.

Luckily, once it's all over, I'm the next DM. And I don't plan to stop DMing for as long as possible.

One last question: In the case of someone with low self esteem, would a group of people telling him how we'd like to help be a better option than one friend trying to help by himself? Or to word it different, should I get the whole group involved?

So, regarding the low self-esteem: what you say might get taken personally, to a disproportionate degree. Be careful.

Getting honest opinions from your friends: this is difficult. You probably don't want to ask in a way that could possibly be misinterpreted as an attack on this guy.

Since you're the next DM, one relatively neutral way to survey is to ask if they want more of the same. Maybe something like...


"Hey just wanted to take a survey for my upcoming campaign. Do you prefer something linear, like a published Adventure Path where there's not much player choice but at least the goal is clear, or would you enjoy something where the world is more sandboxy and reactive to your exploits like $COOL_THING which I ran before?"

... or if you can pull it off honestly, maybe even:


"Hey, you know I usually run a more player-driven game, but we've had some very linear adventures recently and I can't tell if everyone is having more or less fun this way. Do you think I should change my style to be more like $CURRENT_DM maybe?"

If you want to criticize the current DM, frame your criticism in non-personal terms: "This game has a lot more rail-roading than I like. My preference is a more interactive game." You might describe your frustration as a difference in style, for example, since that's not only assigning blame to the current DM.


Regarding the group's gossipers: since you've already heard back that the current DM feels like you are mean to him, IMHO it's crucial that you use the gossip network to spread the fact that you don't hate the guy. So ask your friends how you can communicate that to him. (They'll communicate it for you, of course, but consider taking at least some of their advice to show your own good faith.) Ask your gossipy friends to help you figure out how to communicate your desire to help him be a better DM, so everyone can have more fun.

Tell your gossipy friends that you're frustrated at your own mistake -- that he thinks you were being mean when you weren't trying to be mean. Ask them to help you, just as you've asked us.


In terms of how to fix the root issue: MENTOR HIM. This will only work if you enjoy spending time with the guy*, but it's the most effective cure and it's possible you'll learn something too -- as a tutor, manager, and mentor, I've learned a lot from teaching others. Anyway: assume he's doing the best he can, but he lacks requisite experience.

He's probably using plots from books / games / TV shows and he lacks the tools to adapt to variance, so he's clamping down on PC actions to conform to the plot he knows. Why clamp down on PC actions in preference to the expected plot? Maybe he enjoyed that book / game / episode, and he wants to share it with you.

How can you mentor him in a way that he'll accept, rather than take as an insult? Maybe ask him to co-DM with you a few times during your tenure as the DM. Think of something from his game that you'd enjoy importing, and ask him to work with you to incorporate it. Show him how you think through possible NPC actions in response to different PC actions. Show him how you plan contingencies -- and then expect that the PCs will do none of those things, but that's fine because the NPC is a real person who will react to the surprise appropriately.


*) If you don't enjoy spending time with the guy, then you may want to kick him from your group.