pearl of power question.

[death390]

so pearl of power is a great item for spellcasters. hell it is considered one of the most important items for a buffer spellcaster to get the buffs applied to the group.

however it is one of the possibly most broken items ever created.

1000g * spell level ^2 for a 1/day spell slot of the spell level. by creating a custom pearl of power you could technically remove the limiter of 1/day by multiplying the cost by 5 (DMG magic item creation table: charges per day x/5, so invert it for the 1/day limitation 5/1)

so for 5000g * spell level ^2 you could get a unlimited use spell slot (DM dependant).

hell for 5k i would get a 1st level unlimited spell slot and use that instead of a reserve feat to cast an at will spell every round. unlimited color spray, create trap, grease, kelgores firebolt, any of the orbs, hell re-apply buffs as soon as they dissapate, ect.

it get worse

30k unlimited 2nd level spells
75k unlimited 3rds
(not going past this because of cost)

would it be the best use of your cash? 1st lvl version? hell yes (acts as a reserve feat if nothing else), past that eeeh cost gets a bit too high, might do 2nd level though.

thoughts on unlimited caster spells?

[JNAProductions]

Note that all the magic item formulas are are SUGGESTIONS. They're not a hard-and-fast rule. A DM is encouraged to find similar effects and cost them the same or similar to them.

For instance, a Trapsmith could make an item of Bull's Strength at Caster Level 1, Spell Level 1. Continuously, this would cost 2,000 GP, whereas a normal +4 item of Strength costs 16,000 GP. So, a DM is free to rule that no, you can't do that.

[Kobold Esq]

Custom items require DM approval. This is something that many posters (particularly in CharOp/Theoretical Op threads) overlook.

[Kish]

This is TO. Like every example of TO, a DM who allows it deserves what they get, so I'm not clear on what the question is.

[Kelb_Panthera]

so pearl of power is a great item for spellcasters. hell it is considered one of the most important items for a buffer spellcaster to get the buffs applied to the group.

however it is one of the possibly most broken items ever created.

1000g * spell level ^2 for a 1/day spell slot of the spell level. by creating a custom pearl of power you could technically remove the limiter of 1/day by multiplying the cost by 5 (DMG magic item creation table: charges per day x/5, so invert it for the 1/day limitation 5/1)

so for 5000g * spell level ^2 you could get a unlimited use spell slot (DM dependant).

hell for 5k i would get a 1st level unlimited spell slot and use that instead of a reserve feat to cast an at will spell every round. unlimited color spray, create trap, grease, kelgores firebolt, any of the orbs, hell re-apply buffs as soon as they dissapate, ect.

it get worse

30k unlimited 2nd level spells
75k unlimited 3rds
(not going past this because of cost)

would it be the best use of your cash? 1st lvl version? hell yes (acts as a reserve feat if nothing else), past that eeeh cost gets a bit too high, might do 2nd level though.

thoughts on unlimited caster spells?

Note that there exist 5 times per day day items in various sources. Consequently, you cannot assume that an item priced at 5X the cost of a 1/day version is automatically at will. Given that 5 at will 1st level spells that you can reselect daily is an absolute steal at 5k, I would be rather surprised to see this allowed at a table.

Compare: at will specific 1st level spell is 1800, ring if wizardry 1 is 20k. This plainly falls between the two, right? Now if around 6~7ish extra, potentially-different spells of first level is worth 20k, how is a limitless number of your original 6~7ish spells worth a mere 5k? It's not. It might be worth 7500 or 10k, depending on DM judgement, as a 5/day item. Same logic goes for the higher level versions.


Note that all the magic item formulas are are SUGGESTIONS. They're not a hard-and-fast rule. A DM is encouraged to find similar effects and cost them the same or similar to them.

For instance, a Trapsmith could make an item of Bull's Strength at Caster Level 1, Spell Level 1. Continuously, this would cost 2,000 GP, whereas a normal +4 item of Strength costs 16,000 GP. So, a DM is free to rule that no, you can't do that.

You forgot the X2 for minutes/cl. Otherwise, spot-on.

[death390]

first of all, i already listed that this is DM dependant. second of course this is TO, doesn't mean that it can't be used at all though.

also 5/day items cost the same as comand word variant of the item. it does however imply that you could pay someone to delimit the 5/day item into a command word version for just whatever the cost the person charges for services rendered not having to pay more on the item itself.

using ANY non standard magic item is pretty much considered TO due to the fact that it requires DM approval and unless designed otherwise will almost always function better than a standard item.

you could theoretically make a a single charge wand to make cheaper single use items.

hell using cost reducers is often considered TO because it further breaks wealth by level.

[Zombimode]

I think what People take issue with is your statement that the Pearl of Power "is one of the possibly most broken items ever created" but then you proceeded talking about some custom Magic items, and NOT about Pearls of Power.

To put it differently: you discovered yet another way how to reach completely borked result by blindly applying the formulas for custom Magic items. But your conclusion was that the base item is borked.

[death390]

i was trying to talk about the mechanics behind the pearl of power. since when it was printed it had a brand new magic item rule created just for it. this opens the door to use.

you could technically get multiple uses of the same ability on the same item by having the person stack the abilities on it. so if you pay for 5 pearls of power on the same pearl (it is possible by RAW) it is equivalent to an unlimited use item in cost. also the point for having the multiplier for x/5 uses per day makes it so that were anyone want more than 5 uses of an item it is cheaper to ask a crafter to build a unlimited version, so why wouldn't you?

EDIT: hell look at the blurring property and its greater variant, it is an example of upgrading a existing magic item into unlimited uses, blurring (+1) is 5 round 3/day, greater blurring is (+2) 10 min unlimited uses per day, mind you the additional greater cost is probably due to the massively increased duration. but going from a +2 to +4 total is actually pretty close to that 5x multiplier (8k ->32k at earliest, gets "cheaper" the higher the bonus is)

very few things got their own rules for creation and most of the other ones were a way of making something (tattoo magic for example is just a reworked brew potion for example) this created a whole new mechanic for adding a spell recharge. hell put a lvl 1 pearl of power on a 1s level wand, total cost normally 1750g. but for that cost you get 1 recharge of the wand per day, and thats not counting if the DM takes the fact that the wand uses it (not the user) being a limitation of the item giving it a discount.

again this is DM dependent, but i could easily see that becoming a legitimate magic item (self-recharging wand) because the pearl of power opened the door with its new creation mechanic.

[Kelb_Panthera]

first of all, i already listed that this is DM dependant. second of course this is TO, doesn't mean that it can't be used at all though.

also 5/day items cost the same as comand word variant of the item. it does however imply that you could pay someone to delimit the 5/day item into a command word version for just whatever the cost the person charges for services rendered not having to pay more on the item itself.

using ANY non standard magic item is pretty much considered TO due to the fact that it requires DM approval and unless designed otherwise will almost always function better than a standard item.

you could theoretically make a a single charge wand to make cheaper single use items.

hell using cost reducers is often considered TO because it further breaks wealth by level.

"It doesn't say I can't" is never a valid argument for an exception based rule system.

The item you've described violates the custom item guidelines by being dramatically out of line, price-wise, with other, similar items. You need a DM to ad-hoc a price adjustment or you must simply accept that it violates the guidelines and doesn't work.

[Segev]

It certainly follows the guidelines, but also falls well within the "DM should veto this" category. Also, the formula isn't as straightforward as it seems. Look at the 6th level Pearl (36,000 gp) and the 2 spells, any level 6th or lower Pearl (70,000 gp). The second one is cheaper than just doubling the cost of the 6th level pearl, AND allows various spell levels (the other Pearls technically can't help you with spell slots lower than their maximum). While you could argue that the fact that it's cheaper means that it wouldn't even be 5000 gp to get an unlimited-use level-1 Pearl of Power, you still would have to divine the formula for increasing from 1 to 2 uses, then from 2 to 3... and be sure that formula was linear and not, say, exponential.

In short, these very clearly don't follow the standard guidelines, anyway, so applying the guidelines for "normal" custom items is a fool's errand. Especially if it leads to obviously broken results.

That said, you're right, that IS the normal formula. It just doesn't make sense with this particular item.