Organizations/Religions in DnD that might kill to keep order?

[ToastyTobasco]

I'm looking for a religious order/religion that would use targeted assassination or murder as a means to keep order for backstories.
I remember reading about an organization that basically held a city in complete order just by the threat of retribution. (Black Hand, Red Hand, maybe something like that, maybe in the 3e books)

I'm trying for a backstory for my character who is essentially a Lawful Neutral/Neutral Good(?) Rogue who kills/ is a bounty hunter for the church/holy order for the greater good.

*EDIT* Clarification on title

Also, any God in particular that would favor this or would this just be a mankind thing

Silver Flame?

[StorytellerHero]

The Church of Bane might support a number of knightly orders and covert ops teams dedicated to keeping order by assassination.

The Church of Helm might also support similar organizations, but would probably be more lenient towards potential threats.

[Unoriginal]

I'm looking for an order/religion that would use targeted assassination or murder as a means to keep order for backstories.
I remember reading about an organization that basically held a city in complete order just by the threat of retribution. (Black Hand, Red Hand, maybe something like that, maybe in the 3e books)

I'm trying for a backstory for my character who is essentially a Lawful Neutral/Neutral Good(?) Rogue who kills/ is a bounty hunter for the church/holy order for the greater good.

In which setting?

[ToastyTobasco]

In which setting?

5e, Horde of the Dragon Queen atm. I'm unfamiliar with the division of realms but willing to learn

[the_brazenburn]

The Zhentarim are traditional, though they don't really care about the greater good.

I could possibly see the Harpers doing something like that, though assassination is a bit out of their league.

The Lord's Alliance. Definitely.

[Strangways]

I'm looking for an order/religion that would use targeted assassination or murder as a means to keep order for backstories.
I remember reading about an organization that basically held a city in complete order just by the threat of retribution. (Black Hand, Red Hand, maybe something like that, maybe in the 3e books)

I'm trying for a backstory for my character who is essentially a Lawful Neutral/Neutral Good(?) Rogue who kills/ is a bounty hunter for the church/holy order for the greater good.

Among the 5e factions that players can join, I'd say that the Lord's Alliance is capable of targeted assassination, even if they don't do that on a regular basis. The Zhentarim faction probably considers that just another item of business. Order of the Gauntlet, possibly. I would not expect Harpers or Emerald Enclave to resort to such tactics.

[Asmotherion]

Lord's Alliance: "This person is a threat to our system, and thus must be eliminated discretly". Historically, nobles and kings have been an assasin's best clients and targets respectivelly.

Zhentarim: "Buisness is power". Having connections to the underworld gives the form of subtle yet fearful power the Zhentarim is after, and doing buisness with an assasin's guild (or having it's own, private assasin group who double as spies, or the more politically corect world for them "observers"), sounds very possible.

All will technically kill to fulfill their goals (they are adventurers after all).

[Malifice]

I'm looking for a character who is a Neutral Good Rogue who kills for the church for the greater good.

Then you're probably not NG are you?

[ToastyTobasco]

Then you're probably not NG are you?

Eh I was bouncing between the descriptions of the alignments and Lawful Neutral really seems to fit

[KorvinStarmast]

Then you're probably not NG are you? Please don't start with this again. The SWAT teams are not evil, and they have to shoot someone with a sniper scope now and again.

The Realms are not 21st century Enlightenment derived society. This game presumes quite a lot more justified killing than your or my modern society accepts.

Rabid dogs are put down, aren't they? For the good of society. Likewise with certain evil elements for the good of society ... and if that church (whichever god) is a major bulwark of that society, then the occasional ridding of society of rabid dogs would serve the common good.

[Malifice]

Eh I was bouncing between the descriptions of the alignments and Lawful Neutral really seems to fit

Yeah, LN could arguably get away with it to some extent. But murder 'for the greater good' certainly indicates an evil alignment to me.

Compare Judge Dredd (LN) with the Punisher (LE). Both strony proponents of order and 'for the greater good'. Its just the latter is prepared to employ murder and torture people making him evil.

Vengance Paladin oath requires 'by any means' and 'for the greater good.' And they're generalyl LN-E.

[ToastyTobasco]

Please don't start with this again. The SWAT teams are not evil, and they have to shoot someone with a sniper scope now and again.

The Realms are not 21st century Enlightenment derived society. This game presumes quite a lot more justified killing than your or my modern society accepts.

Rabid dogs are put down, aren't they? For the good of society. Likewise with certain evil elements for the good of society ... and if that church (whichever god) is a major bulwark of that society, then the occasional ridding of society of rabid dogs would serve the common good.

(Bolding by me.) This is what I am getting at with the idea. Not out for torturing bandits or petty criminals and just killing under the name of an ideal/diety.

[Malifice]

Please don't start with this again. The SWAT teams are not evil, and they have to shoot someone with a sniper scope now and again.

That is not murder.

If the SWAT team kicked in your door and shot you in the head as you slept, that would be murder.

Stop conflating all killing as murder.

A PC who is part of a death squad or Gestapo like secret police who employ murder, is evil.

SWAT operations are LN.

If the State used SWAT teams to murder enemies of the State (as execution squads) for the 'greater good' of society, then they're evil.

[DnDegenerates]

I could see Kelemvor as having followers who assassinate undead, undead coconspirators, as well as the

[Malifice]

I could see Kelemvor as having followers who assassinate undead, undead coconspirators, as well as the

He's LN so sounds about right.

Not sure one can really assasinate undead. They're not alive.

You cant murder a walker in TWD.

[JackPhoenix]

It depends on the setting you play in. If you do not know what setting you play in try asking your GM. I can't really speak for FR, but as you mentioned Silver Flame, no, mainline CotSF wouldn't condone that, however, there are subfactions that would steep to such things (Krozen comes to mind). That's pretty much true about any of the major faiths in Eberron: they won't admit it openly, but there may be subsects which use such means. Undying Court (elves only) sends teams to destroy powerful undead, Path of Light would try to assassinate important Inspired and their servants if they could get away with it, Path of Inspiration would go after Kalashtar, but neither has much influence on Khorvaire. Blood of Vol doesn't really care about "order" and Sovereign Host is heavily fragmented, so you'll find all sorts of people there.


Yeah, LN could arguably get away with it to some extent. But murder 'for the greater good' certainly indicates an evil alignment to me.

Compare Judge Dredd (LN) with the Punisher (LE). Both strony proponents of order and 'for the greater good'. Its just the latter is prepared to employ murder and torture people making him evil.

Vengance Paladin oath requires 'by any means' and 'for the greater good.' And they're generalyl LN-E.

We already know you do not understand how alignment in 5e works. You don't have to demonstrate it and derail every thread in which alignment is mentioned even in passing. Use your 3e views in your own game and don't tell other people how they should play their own games unless they specifically ask for it.

[DnDegenerates]

He's LN so sounds about right.

Not sure one can really assasinate undead. They're not alive.

You cant murder a walker in TWD.

Haha you're probably right. I was more thinking intelligent undead as well as living who create undead.

[hamishspence]

It depends on the setting you play in. If you do not know what setting you play in try asking your GM. I can't really speak for FR, but as you mentioned Silver Flame, no, mainline CotSF wouldn't condone that, however, there are subfactions that would steep to such things (Krozen comes to mind). That's pretty much true about any of the major faiths in Eberron: they won't admit it openly, but there may be subsects which use such means. Undying Court (elves only) sends teams to destroy powerful undead, Path of Light would try to assassinate important Inspired and their servants if they could get away with it, Path of Inspiration would go after Kalashtar, but neither has much influence on Khorvaire. Blood of Vol doesn't really care about "order" and Sovereign Host is heavily fragmented, so you'll find all sorts of people there.


While it's less religious, the Gnome government of Zilago has "assassinate threats to order" as standard operating procedure. I would guess that the local religions may end up becoming agents of the government in this case.

[Malifice]

We already know you do not understand how alignment in 5e works. You don't have to demonstrate it and derail every thread in which alignment is mentioned even in passing. Use your 3e views in your own game and don't tell other people how they should play their own games unless they specifically ask for it.

No.

I'm discussing alignment in a discussion board featuring a discussion on alignment.

[Naanomi]

Hoar is into this sort of thing, a Hoar aligned branch of the Order of the Gauntlet?

[KorvinStarmast]

If the SWAT team kicked in your door and shot you in the head as you slept, that would be murder.

Stop conflating all killing as murder.
You are the one who started this, so asking me to stop is foolish, and the instance I gave was not murder, so you aren't even right about that.

A PC who is part of a death squad or Gestapo like secret police who employ murder, is evil.
Could be neutral. Please recall that in original D&D, Assassins were by definition Neutral. (1e changed that to "some kind of evil" when the two axis system was formally adopted. )

SWAT operations are LN.
Or Lawful Good. The key is lawful, and it is good to put down the rabid dog.

If the State used SWAT teams to murder enemies of the State (as execution squads) for the 'greater good' of society, then they're evil. That is your opinion, not an incontrovertible fact. And this is why I asked you not to go there. Also, your assertion that snipers are by definition evil is offensive. There are a number of enemies of my state that have been found, and taken out by snipers (in this case it was in Afghanistan).
Your position is a caricature of morality

[Teliasen]

Order of the Gilded Eye is an offshoot of the Order of the Gauntlet that is full of zealot taking pre emptive steps against evil in FR. I'm playing a cleric that was an inquisitors for them before becoming disillusioned in my AL group. The SCAG mentions they employ assassins

[xroads]

Each religion is large enough to support multiple cults that branch off from the main religion. You could easily pick your favorite religion and say that you belonged to a cult that sanctions assassinations.


Among the 5e factions that players can join, I'd say that the Lord's Alliance is capable of targeted assassination, even if they don't do that on a regular basis. The Zhentarim faction probably considers that just another item of business. Order of the Gauntlet, possibly. I would not expect Harpers or Emerald Enclave to resort to such tactics.

Personally, I'd switch the Order of the Gauntlet with the Emerald Enclave. The Order seems like it favors crusades, so assassination is probably not their style. While I wouldn't put it past the Enclave to host a few fringe eco-terrorists groups that sponsor assassination.

[ToastyTobasco]

Each religion is large enough to support multiple cults that branch off from the main religion. You could easily pick your favorite religion and say that you belonged to a cult that sanctions assassinations.


This would probably be a lot simpler. Could lead to some funny moments of getting accosted by normal members of the faith.

[strangebloke]

No.

I'm discussing alignment in a discussion board featuring a discussion on alignment.

Saying "you can't be a LG assassin for the greater good" shows that you have no conception of what alignment means in 5e.

Let's say my LG barbarian comes across a switch. This switch, if flipped, will divert a trolley to a different track. A trolley is hurtling down one track, and will kill five innocents if it continues. If he flips the switch, the trolley will be diverted, killing only one. Does my barbarian flip the switch?

Well, it depends.

Actions in 5e do not inherently possess an alignment. Alignment in 5e is comparable to the general roleplay idea of "motivation." A character who is LN is motivated by a desire for order for it's open sake. A LG character is motivated by a desire for order for the sake of the good of others.

Maybe they desire the welfare of others as a utilitarian does. (IE, they want everyone to be as happy as possible) in that case they flip the switch. Maybe they desire the welfare of others as a consequentialist does. (IE they care solely about the direct consequences of their actions) in that case they do not flip the switch.

[JackPhoenix]

No.

I'm discussing alignment in a discussion board featuring a discussion on alignment.

No, you're turning a discussion about organizations into discussion on alignment just because OP mentioned his character's alignment in passing.


Then you're probably not NG are you?

Nobody mentioned alignment until then.