Mage Slayer build? Please critique!

[2D8HP]

So for a different thread a while ago...
So, Merry Christmas! I came up with a build:

So, once upon a time a spell-caster came to the village of Dorfweitwegvonüberall, and made a grand entrance with his hat and robe with stars and moons, and his wand, and changing reality to fit his will.

The Spell Caster, being bored decided to look for some action, or make some. In looking around he finally laid eyes on a young lady named Gertrudt.

It just so happens that a young lad of the village by the Hans also long had eyes for Gertrudt, and he didn't like "Mr. High-and-mighty-magic-man" eyeing his girl (or rather the girl whom he'd like to be his girl).

With Hans was his dog (puppy really) called Fritz.

Now Fritz didn't know why, but he could sense that the man in the robe leaning over the fence, talking to the large human women, was angering his boy Hans, and in an instant, Fritz's little doggie mind made a split decision to bite the robed man.

"Ouch! What the...? Away you miserable cur!"

...bellowed the spell-caster as he kicked at the little dog, and just when he raised his wand and started an incantation (as testified to by two village men of good reputation, "who saw the whole thing")...BAM!

Hans, defending his dog went right behind the magic-user, and bashed in his skull with a shovel.

Upon seeing the magician dead (and the size of his coinpurse), the good people of Dorfweitwegvonüberall declared that Hans had rid them of a great evil that had turned several of the regulars at villages tavern (called "The Tavern") into toads the night before (they got better).

Hans gloried in the new attention, everyone looked at him differently, especially Gertrudt (who now looked at him at all), and soon it was decided that there was a whole world full of Wizards, Warlocks, and Witches, that had to be met by a hero of Hans stature, and the world couldn't wait, and he needed to go right now!

And so Hans, handed some rations, a bedroll, and an axe, set forth.
. So "Hans"

Race: Standard Human

Background: Folk Hero

Class: Barbarian

STR:16, DEX:15, CON:14, INT:9 WIS:13, CHA:11

Skills: Animal Handling, Athletics, Perception, Survival

Second Level: A level of Rogue

Additional Skill: Stealth

Expertise in: Perception, and Stealth


Third Level: Barbarian to 2nd level

Levels 4 to 5 : Rogue to third level

Subclass: Swashbuckler


Levels 6 to 16: Fighter to 11th level

Fighting Styles Archery, Great Weapon Fighting

Subclass: Champion

ASI's:+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 WIS


Levels 17 - 20: Rogue to 7th level
ASI: +2 DEX

Expertise in: Athletics, and Thieves tools

So, meta-game is not allowed!

So, your tactic will NOT be valid!

So, especially by you Lucius Threvor "The Nameless King", whom, as a baby, snakes covered like a throne, and Camponents tried to kill!

So, since my rules mastery is

*ahem*

"challenged", I'm sure others at this Forum have better ideas, please share them.

Oh, and "Challenge accepted" "Defeat the not-nameless-and-not-a-king-blah-di-blah"

http://i.pinimg.com/564x/5f/da/5d/5fda5d75168fcbdcb491c0336eaf2c61.jpg

http://i.pinimg.com/564x/c1/ee/bc/c1eebca2bfc59010f5795130c390a45e.jpg

(Yes I'm goofing on a little bit on a cra-cra crazy cheese build that appears and mysteriously disappears from time to time, but I genuinely welcome serious suggestions. Also jokes. Also I hate sports)

-Thanks!

[Arkhios]

So for a different thread a while ago... I came up with a build:

So, once upon a time a spell-caster came to the village of Dorfweitwegvonüberall, and made a grand entrance with his hat and robe with stars and moons, and his wand, and changing reality to fit his will.

The Spell Caster, being bored decided to look for some action, or make some. In looking around he finally laid eyes on a young lady named Gertrudt.

It just so happens that a young lad of the village by the Hans also long had eyes for Gertrudt, and he didn't like "Mr. High-and-mighty-magic-man" eyeing his girl (or rather the girl whom he'd like to be his girl).

With Hans was his dog (puppy really) called Fritz.

Now Fritz didn't know why, but he could sense that the man in the robe leaning over the fence, talking to the large human women, was angering his boy Hans, and in an instant, Fritz's little doggie mind made a split decision to bite the robed man.

"Ouch! What the...? Away you miserable cur!"

...bellowed the spell-caster as he kicked at the little dog, and just when he raised his wand and started an incantation (as testified to by two village men of good reputation, "who saw the whole thing")...BAM!

Hans, defending his dog went right behind the magic-user, and bashed in his skull with a shovel.

Upon seeing the magician dead (and the size of his coinpurse), the good people of Dorfweitwegvonüberall declared that Hans had rid them of a great evil that had turned several of the regulars at villages tavern (called "The Tavern") into toads the night before (they got better).

Hans gloried in the new attention, everyone looked at him differently, especially Gertrudt (who now looked at him at all), and soon it was decided that there was a whole world full of Wizards, Warlocks, and Witches, that had to be met by a hero of Hans stature, and the world couldn't wait, and he needed to go right now!

And so Hans, handed some rations, a bedroll, and an axe, set forth. So "Hans"

Race: Standard Human

Background: Folk Hero

Class: Barbarian

STR:16, DEX:15, CON:14, INT:9 WIS:13, CHA:11

Skills: Animal Handling, Athletics, Perception, Survival

Second Level: A level of Rogue

Additional Skill: Stealth

Expertise in: Perception, and Stealth


Third Level: Barbarian to 2nd level

Levels 4 to 5 : Rogue to third level

Subclass: Swashbuckler


Levels 6 to 16: Fighter to 11th level

Fighting Styles Archery, Great Weapon Fighting

Subclass: Champion

ASI's:+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 WIS


Levels 17 - 20: Rogue to 7th level
ASI: +2 DEX

Expertise in: Athletics, and Thieves tools

So, meta-game is not allowed!

So, your tactic will NOT be valid!

So, especially by you Lucius Threvor "The Nameless King", whom, as a baby, snakes covered like a throne, and Camponents tried to kill!

So, since my rules mastery is

*ahem*

"challenged", I'm sure others at this Forum have better ideas, please share them.

Oh, and "Challenge accepted" "Defeat the not-nameless-and-not-a-king-blah-di-blah"
-Thanks!

Ok, I'll bite. (By the way, I love the story xD)

Your build seems to be missing a key component: Mage Slayer feat.

I wouldn't bother with increasing Dexterity further than 14. You can go just fine with using medium armor, and taking Archery Style from fighter can substitute for your vanishingly small lack of Dexterity. With Rogue levels, Sneak Attack covers your damage output anyway.

Stripping away Standard Human ability modifiers from your initial stat array, and replacing them with Variant Human modifiers, I came up with this:
STR:16, DEX:14, CON:14, INT:8 WIS:12, CHA:10
From your race, +1 goes to Strength and Constitution, and as your Extra feat you could pick the Mage Slayer feat (it's a fitting feat for your character to have right from the start, especially according to the story. "Hans" was a Mage Slayer right from the beginning, after all)
As a racial bonus skill, you could take Arcana, just because it seems reasonable to understand what the heck those mages are mumbling about, and be prepared accordingly.
As a racial bonus language I would probably take Draconic as it's often considered to be "the language of magic", even if it wasn't true by RAW.

As for those ASI that increase your Dexterity (and Wisdom) you could improve Strength instead. Or take some other feats, like Alert or maybe even Medium Armor Master, if you'd prefer to increase Dexterity to 16.

As your Fighting Styles, Archery is obviously good, but Great Weapon Fighting is less so. Especially if you wish to benefit from Sneak Attack also in melee (none of the versatile melee weapons is also finesse; nor are any heavy melee weapons.) Instead of Great Weapon Fighting, just take Defense. +1 AC is always good, and you're better with using medium armor than going unarmored.

[bid]

STR:16, DEX:15, CON:14, INT:9 WIS:13, CHA:11

ASI's:+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 WIS
ASI: +2 DEX

I can grok the non-expertise in athletics if it doesn't do anything against casters.

But why the odd love?
The array above has modifiers +3+2+2-1+1+0 = +7.

Just start Str16 Dex14 Con14 Int10 Wis14 Cha11. The array 15 13 13 13 10 9 was made for basic human.
This improves the modifiers by 2 steps to +3+2+2+0+2+0 = +9.

I don't see what swashbuckler brings to the table with your non-Cha. I would rather thief with some RP fluff.

And... ONE attack with Str16 at level 8 is iffy.


But at least is has RP potential.

[Quoz]

First of all, love the story. Sounds a lot like my party's hexblade, complete with "Granpappy's pitchfork" as pact weapon and his "de-vined magics"

From both the description and the build, this is a very 'front towards enemy' concept. Increased crit range, 3 attacks, reckless attack, sneak attack. Swashbuckler gives the mobility to wade through minions to get to the back line mages quickly and smack them upside the head.

What I'm not seeing are options. Aside from rage and the basic fighter package, there are very few resources to manage. No feats (are they not allowed for this game), no reliable reactions or bonus actions, very few abilities that recharge on a short or long rest.

This sounds like a great first character to start a new player with, or for someone who wants to play a lot of personality in RP but isn't as interested in managing combat. I fear that after a while it will end up being fairly repetitive as there's not going to be a lot of tactical flexibility.

To fix some of that, I would recommend a few minor tweaks. Take tavern brawler if available and take athletics expertise at first level instead of perception. Carry a crowbar or big hammer, something that would be an improvised weapon but is close enough to count as a martial versatile weapon. Now you're a highly competent grappler with almost no drop in other areas of effectiveness.

I also going to suggest looking at battlemaster over champion, both for combat and RP. Tripping, intimidating, and disarming are all fun ways to spice up a fight.

[Arkhios]

I don't see what swashbuckler brings to the table with your non-Cha. I would rather thief with some RP fluff.

Swashbuckler gets two features at 3rd level, not just the initiative bonus. The other one is actually much better: Ability to land a sneak attack even if you were the only one adjacent to your target. Plus the ability to go away from your target without provoking after you've attacked (hit or miss is irrelevant) -- as if you had the Mobile feat AND/OR without the need to use your Bonus Action for Cunning Action.

[bid]

The other one is actually much better: Ability to land a sneak attack even if you were the only one adjacent to your target.
Well, barbarian 2 has to be there for a reason.

[Arkhios]

Well, barbarian 2 has to be there for a reason.

I believe Danger Sense is actually the reason for Barbarian 2 for this character. Apparently people seem to ignore this class feature because "Reckless Attack is AWESOMESAUCE for rogue".
Besides, Reckless Attack makes you vulnerable to attacks as well. Not at all good idea to use "all day, every day". Especially when you're running low on hit points. Using Reckless Attack all the time, is basically a Death Sentence to you.

I'll quote:


DANGER SENSE
At 2nd level, you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren't as they should be, giving you an edge when you dodge away from danger.
You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see, such as traps and spells.
To gain this benefit, you can't be blinded, deafened, or incapacitated.

[2D8HP]

.
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Thanks for the advice!

:smile:


[...]why the odd love?
The array above has modifiers +3+2+2-1+1+0 = +7.

Just start Str16 Dex14 Con14 Int10 Wis14 Cha11. The array 15 13 13 13 10 9 was made for basic human.
This improves the modifiers by 2 steps to +3+2+2+0+2+0 = +9[...]


For no particular reason (actually I was just lazy) I assumed standard-array, no UA, and no Feats, but that multi-classing would be allowed (otherwise there's not much to a "build" to think of), but until a sheet is on a table, and dice are in one's hand all assumptions, and all ideas are vallid (except for red-eyed Sorcerers with variable Elvish ancestry that have names but are Nameless meta-game not allowed your tacic [sic] not valid, hordes of undeads!)

[Millface]

Booming Blade

Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: 1 round

As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves before then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.

This spell's damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.

My favorite Mage Slayer builds revolve around this bad boy and Mage Slayer, my favorite variation so far is High Elf (to take the BB cantrip) Paladin Oath of Vengeance to 6 for the mage slayer feat at 4, extra attack at 5, and saves aura at 6, then Rogue (swasbuckler) to 4 for an ASI and sneak attack, then whatever after that. This variant is a dex combatant, not STR, so move the 16 to dex.

First round you get in the caster's face, use booming blade which gets sneak attack damage almost no matter the scenario, then the caster has two choices, both hurt. He can move and eat the booming blade/opportunity attack or stay put and try to cast and eat the mage slayer attack. The burst damage of the Paladin along with the "no matter what you do it's going to hurt" combo is gonna give enemy casters a bad time.

Eldritch Knights work in place of paladin for more mobility/utility but I like the paladin's + CHA to saves if you're going to be purposefully ticking off enemy casters.

[tieren]

For a mage slayer I believe the big questions are how do you plan to get to the mage (they are usually further away in the backfield), and once you get to them how do you keep them there.

You could solve the problem by being ranged yourself. Maybe some kind of of ranger who learns silence and uses entangling shot to keep the mage in the silence.

However I think most people want to melee to use that mage slayer feat (which isn't great as written). You could go for crazy fast to close the gap before they see you coming, shadow monk who is going to stun lock the mage for example. OR you could go super sneaky and try to stealth up for an assassin type blow.

Personally I would want to fight fire with fire and use magic against him, maybe an EK with an arcane charge to close the gap and action surge for some choppy choppy goodness, some misty step to keep up with the mage if he starts teleporting around, etc...

You could also think about defenses, like forest gnomes adv on all mental saves vs. magic, and the aura from an OatA paladin.

[Millface]

For a mage slayer I believe the big questions are how do you plan to get to the mage (they are usually further away in the backfield), and once you get to them how do you keep them there.

You could solve the problem by being ranged yourself. Maybe some kind of of ranger who learns silence and uses entangling shot to keep the mage in the silence.

However I think most people want to melee to use that mage slayer feat (which isn't great as written). You could go for crazy fast to close the gap before they see you coming, shadow monk who is going to stun lock the mage for example. OR you could go super sneaky and try to stealth up for an assassin type blow.

Personally I would want to fight fire with fire and use magic against him, maybe an EK with an arcane charge to close the gap and action surge for some choppy choppy goodness, some misty step to keep up with the mage if he starts teleporting around, etc...

You could also think about defenses, like forest gnomes adv on all mental saves vs. magic, and the aura from an OatA paladin.

These are good points.

So... I'd still say stick with Mageslayer and Booming Blade but instead do a variant human Eldritch Knight so you get an extra feat and you can run Mage Slayer and Mobile by level 4, if you can't get to them with Mobile then you can burn Arcane charge, booming blade to make sure they stay put once you catch up to them.

I also really like the idea of a High Elf Shadow Monk with Booming Blade for the ability to stunlock, close the gap, tons of mobility... yeah that sounds really good.

[bid]

I believe Danger Sense is actually the reason for Barbarian 2 for this character.
Dex saves aren't all that important when you are a bag of hp.

For optimisation, I'd go swashbuckler all the time. I don't disagree with you here.
It's the (lack of) value danger sense has here that I disagree first.
I wouldn't delay the first ASi/extra attack without good RP reasons.

IMO, the RP concept has "throw the kitchen sink" more than the "look at me" vibe. I assume we have to build around danger sense to follow the concept.

[tatsuyashiba]

For a mage slayer I believe the big questions are how do you plan to get to the mage (they are usually further away in the backfield), and once you get to them how do you keep them there.

You could solve the problem by being ranged yourself. Maybe some kind of of ranger who learns silence and uses entangling shot to keep the mage in the silence.

However I think most people want to melee to use that mage slayer feat (which isn't great as written). You could go for crazy fast to close the gap before they see you coming, shadow monk who is going to stun lock the mage for example. OR you could go super sneaky and try to stealth up for an assassin type blow.

Personally I would want to fight fire with fire and use magic against him, maybe an EK with an arcane charge to close the gap and action surge for some choppy choppy goodness, some misty step to keep up with the mage if he starts teleporting around, etc...

You could also think about defenses, like forest gnomes adv on all mental saves vs. magic, and the aura from an OatA paladin.

Love these ideas. Suggest drawing up a 5th level, 10th level, and 13th level mage - and think about how your character would lock them down solo.

Most spells rely on sight. So blindness (requires a con save), fog cloud (no save), and cunning use of terrain (rogue bonus action hide) can prevent targeting by the spellcaster.

Components to spells include verbal (silence prevents), somatic (restraining or grappling can prevent), and material (snatch away their focus or pouch).

Spellcasters commonly target Dex, Con, and Wis. Proficiencies in these saves, or features like Gnome cunning (advantage on mental saves), Lucky, or Mage Slayer can help.

Weaknesses for spellcasters include Strength, Con, AC, and Dex (likely in that order). Grappling is very effective.

Spellcasters probably won’t have a high initiative. You want to go before they get their big spell off. Swashbuckler with Cha to initiative, War Wizard with Int, Ranger revised with advantage, Alert feat, and a weapon of warning or sentinel shield (uncommon magic items, grant advantage on initiative) can make sure you go first. Fighter action surge can give you two actions before the wizard goes at all.

Personally , I think wizard vs wizard is effective. Fighter 2 / War Wizard X, Alertness feat, sentinel shield, you can have +11 initiative at level 6 (16 Dex 16 Int) with advantage. Plus counterspell next level.

Monk’s mobility and Stunning Strike - a possible 4 attacks per round forcing a Con save, virtually assures you can lock them down for a round or two. (Likely long enough for party to dogpile and dispose).

I also like the idea of a Rogue Thief, expertise Athletics, running up grappling mage and taking away their component pouch. Magic Initiate, racial features, or a multi class dip might be enough for some mage defeating spells like fog cloud and silence.

Many of the best anti-mage spells are on the Ranger list (Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Ensnaring Strike, Silence).