Natural Attacks vs. Grapple Damage

[Nebuul]

If you choose to "damage your opponent" with a grapple check, you do unarmed + str damage. Unarmed is 1d2 small, 1d3 medium, 1d4 large, etc. Does that damage still apply for creatures with all claws, or do they do claw damage?

I guess another way to ask is: Are monk-types the only creatures who do alternative damage when choosing "damage your opponent"? For example, if I polymorph into a dire bear, will my damage in a grapple be 2d4 lethal or 1d4 nonlethal?

[Fizban]

The rule you're looking for is under Improved Grab: creatures with improved grab replace unarmed damage from grapple checks with the natural weapon damage for the weapon they used to grab you.

Constrict damage happens on top of whatever they make for their normal check, and due to the individual wording on monster entries, usually after any check they succeed on in general.

You can also make natural weapon attacks at -4 vs AC in place of grapple checks, but then you have to figure out if you're still restricted to the limits on natural weapons and you're better off making improved grab grapple checks anyway. And of course creatures with rakes just get those free.

[Âmesang]

If I may hijack the question for a moment, what damage value do you use whilst grappling via the telekinesis spell?

[Mordaedil]

If I may hijack the question for a moment, what damage value do you use whilst grappling via the telekinesis spell?
You don't. You grapple or pin and that's all it allows you to do with regards to grapple (it makes special mention of pin).

[DrMotives]

From the SRD:

Attack Your Opponent

You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.

You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.

[Necroticplague]

If you choose to "damage your opponent" with a grapple check, you do unarmed + str damage. Unarmed is 1d2 small, 1d3 medium, 1d4 large, etc. Does that damage still apply for creatures with all claws, or do they do claw damage? Assuming no other special abilities are in place, this is the same regardless of natural weapons.

If you want to add a natural weapon to the damage, look into either the Beast Strike feat, the Improved Grab ability, or some variants of the Constrict ability.


I guess another way to ask is: Are monk-types the only creatures who do alternative damage when choosing "damage your opponent"? For example, if I polymorph into a dire bear, will my damage in a grapple be 2d4 lethal or 1d4 nonlethal?

Your damage is your unarmed strike, unless otherwise specified. So the bear does 1d4 nonlethal damage, just like any other Large creature. If you want to make that lethal, add Improved Unarmed Strike, and for more damage, add the Superior Unarmed Strike feat (or Beast Strike, since it has claws).

However, note that Dire Bears have the Improved Grab ability, which has the following text:

If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold.
So if you started the grapple with Improved Grapple (requiring a successful attack roll with the claws, instead of a successful melee touch attack with an unarmed strike), you'd add 2d4 lethal damage to any grapple check you succeed (except for that to establish the grapple). This would include not only opposed grapple checks to deal damage, but also checks against their attempts to escape.

[The Viscount]

Rules Compendium clarified the language of Improved Grab as follows.


Whenever the creature makes a successful grapple check to deal damage, it deals the damage indicated for the natural weapon that it used to make the improved grab.

So it will deal damage when it rolls to damage the opponent, but not when it rolls opposed checks to stop an opponent from escaping a grapple.

The Rules Compendium gets some flak sometimes but I think it does a good job accumulating and clarifying for things like grappling.