PDA

View Full Version : Dungeon Planning



Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-29, 03:31 PM
GOOD LORD PLANNING A DUNGEON IS TIME CONSUMING!

i recall a thread or something in the gaming section of this site on how to make dungeon planning qicker and painless ( if not less painful). like short cuts and stuff.

currently im making my key NPC. you know the ones with names? :smallbiggrin: guys like "main villan", "villan second in command", " anti-hero", king, etc etc. i find this the most tedious because i know what i want in them but the mechanics and "game balance" stuff gets in the way of their flavor.

i know im DM and i can mess with what ever i want. but i dont know how to keep some of this stuff from the experienced players...

tips? suggestions? links?

AKA_Bait
2007-08-29, 03:40 PM
Humm... can you be more specific about what you want?

Also, I've found that this generator (http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm) and some of the other tools linked here (http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html) save me a bunch of time.

Moff Chumley
2007-08-29, 03:41 PM
Just checking, you want Dungeon advice or NPC advice? Please specify. :smallconfused:

For NPCs, I completely fudge them, flavorwise. If you could give us an example of what you want, that would be great, but to use an example of my own...
A villain of my past campaign was a warlock, but I desprately wanted him to appear like a ninja. This wasn't nearly as hard as it sounds. Eldritch blast become special shruiken shots, invocations became ninja-ee stuff (eg. darkness=smoke bomb, Voidsense=great senses), and he wielded a dagger instead of a mace. All it takes is flavorful descriptions.

As for dungeons, I'm afraid your out of luck.

Citizen Joe
2007-08-29, 03:51 PM
Yea, are you populating a dungeon or trying to make an adventure?

In either case, come up with a theme and the rest should build itself. As to the level balance issue, use the 'Freight train rolls by' sort of mechanic. So just as the PC's are about to a) be captured or b) fight the BBEG (that would kick their asses) have an earthquake/ceiling collapse/lightning strike/fire/cattle stampede etc. intervene so that they can't interact.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-29, 04:59 PM
Yea, are you populating a dungeon or trying to make an adventure?

In either case, come up with a theme and the rest should build itself. As to the level balance issue, use the 'Freight train rolls by' sort of mechanic. So just as the PC's are about to a) be captured or b) fight the BBEG (that would kick their asses) have an earthquake/ceiling collapse/lightning strike/fire/cattle stampede etc. intervene so that they can't interact.

i suppose im trying to populate the dungeon. im making the important NPC's and its real tedious looking up all the options.

for example i want a wizard type to be a sort of expert on magical beasts. the way he studies them is summons them studies them before the duration expires and just does that over and over again. to set the stage for a quick encounter he messes up one of the summonings and lets loose... something.

but anyway i spent all morning reasearch summoning specialists like conjurers and such but there is nothing about summoning magica beasts. only animals (druid), undead ( necros) and a bunch of extra planar monsters.

i already started a thread on summoning magical beasts. there werent very many responses.

i also have a frew towns to make. anything that will make planning those go by faster would be cool also.

Oeryn
2007-08-29, 05:06 PM
Myth-Weavers.com has Dungeon, Town and NPC generators in its "RPG Tools" section. That might speed things up a bit. There are also some good name generators around on the net, which are a lifesaver for any DM.

bosssmiley
2007-08-29, 05:16 PM
GOOD LORD PLANNING A DUNGEON IS TIME CONSUMING!

"Good, quick, cheap: pick two." - this holds as true for DMing as it does for anything else. :smallwink:


currently im making my key NPC. you know the ones with names? :smallbiggrin: guys like "main villan", "villan second in command", " anti-hero", king, etc etc. i find this the most tedious because i know what i want in them but the mechanics and "game balance" stuff gets in the way of their flavor.

i know im DM and i can mess with what ever i want. but i dont know how to keep some of this stuff from the experienced players...

tips? suggestions? links?

Sounds like you're trying to run before the PCs are ready to walk (at least scope- and level-wise). You might want to scale back your ambitions somewhat to a scale you know the PCs (who are the 'starring cast' focus of the game) will be able to handle.

If the worst comes to the worst just scale back the villains and other major NPCs who need their stats done now (the BBEG's right-hand man) and leave the capabilities of the BBEG, the king, etc. intentionally vague and rumour-cloaked.

This not only prevents prying little munchkin eyes from peeking at your notes, but allows you to build the antagonists per the requirements of the adventure only when you know you've got to the one they will finally feature in.

If scaling back and 'looming yet absent threat' foreshadowing doesn't work for you, then you night want to try deliberately 'Achilles Heeling' your NPCs. Make them as roxxorz as you planned all along, but design built-in weaknesses that a) fit the PCs known strengths and strategies, or b) can be found out with a little side-questy research.

When the PCs get wind of this mysterious villain flaw (kryptonite allergy, taboo, secret loyalty, whatever) they will doubtless hare off after word of it, and ultimately exploit it merrily to even the horrendously unfair odds in the final battle. Tell me you at least stacked the deck against them, right? :smallconfused:

As for actually building the villain.
If they're SRD, I just use the RedBlade character generator for the mechanical drudgework. Any non-SRD stuff I handcraft onto their Core base (it teaches me new PrCs, feats, spells and the like as I work).

Never spend more than about 1/2 hour building a villain though. Their *whole* purpose in life - however much you love to hate them - is still to die at the hands of the real stars of the show, the PCs. You can always hire build more evil dudes easily: simply because evil is infinite in its' permutations. :smallwink:

Remember: no player ends up hating the GM who makes their characters (and by extension them) look cool. :smallcool:

edit: good links AKA_bait. Cheers.

Matthew
2007-08-30, 01:24 PM
Honestly, this is one of the most annoying aspects of 3e. Building a Dungeon with 3e NPCs is going to be time consuming. That's all there really is to it. Your best bet is to hunt around for already created NPCs and alter them to suit your purpose. If you have access to any published adventures, loot them for stuff.

AKA_Bait
2007-08-30, 01:31 PM
Honestly, this is one of the most annoying aspects of 3e. Building a Dungeon with 3e NPCs is going to be time consuming. That's all there really is to it. Your best bet is to hunt around for already created NPCs and alter them to suit your purpose. If you have access to any published adventures, loot them for stuff.

I frequently do this. If there is a NPC type you need, who is not going to be a several adventure spanning baddie that actually needs a distinct personality, then you can also just do a search around on the Wizard sites. The Elite Opponents and NPC Focus posts that will pop up should give you several decent NPC's that should take you all of 5 mins to tweak into what you want.

Citizen Joe
2007-08-30, 02:25 PM
Primary BBEG: High level ranger (surprise, not a wizard)
This guy is the caretaker of a specific territory, I like a forest with a mountain peak. He uses his animal skills to breed and train magical beasts. As part of the 'face' of his operation he sells some griffons or hippogriffs to fund his work.

Deep inside the mountain, mined out by trained/charmed bullettes are his breeding and experimentation labs. Of course, he has wizard lieutenants, but he's also going to have magical beast guardians. A lamia (or better yet a mating pair) would make for an excellent captain of the guard. Include goblins with specially bred wargs as mooks and forest patrol/gatherers. Semi-stationary guards can include hydra... Or a chained hydra where the heads are removed as a food source for other creatures (cheesy but legitimate by raw). Owlbears are sort of medium danger level creatures but hard to control.

The forest itself would have essentially 'eyes' of the ranger. Magical beasts that can keep tabs of what is going on. There would also be patrols that hunt (within reason) and would be moderately easy to take down. Note that, killing a patrol would likely be noticed resulting in a hardened force striking the party. Likely to include hidden snipers and air support. Those respecting the forest, and just passing through would likely be left alone. Those harming the forest (or poaching) would be 'warned strongly'. The level of conflict/danger in the forest should be relatively low, enough to discourage commoners from going too deep, but not so much as to draw attention.

As you close in on the mountain, you'll encounter a ring of brutes. Largely uncontrolled and territorial magical beasts (like the hydra or roving school of bullette). This should strongly discourage any but the most insistent foe.

By this time, the mountain would be fully warned. Resistance will be on the order of a military hit squad with many fortifications and traps. Multiple foes with assisting animals and squad leaders. The forest itself will turn against the invaders. Rocks will fall from the sky.

Assuming that fortification can be breached, the ranger and his research staff would escape via flying creatures. Partially trained creatures would be released into the "dungeon" part of the research center to slow down the assault.

Prometheus
2007-08-30, 04:15 PM
Never spend more than about 1/2 hour building a villain though. Their *whole* purpose in life - however much you love to hate them - is still to die at the hands of the real stars of the show, the PCs. You can always hire build more evil dudes easily: simply because evil is infinite in its' permutations. :smallwink:

Remember: no player ends up hating the GM who makes their characters (and by extension them) look cool. :smallcool:

Seconded, I have a number of villains who I was planning on making the final one that ended up as sideshows. My fifth in line for big evil villain was actually the one that ended up doing (the first was attacked in his sleep and died early (who wasn't a good canidate, being ignored before then), the second got to the sideline when his PC-nemesis quit playing, the third ended up turned out to join the PCs to oppose the fourth who allied underneath the fifth). Multiple villains make for a better story I think to, because it allows the PCs to defeat some of them along the way, it allows even evil to be redeemed, and it shows the betraying nature when evil fights itself. Only about five sessions were needed to spontaneously insert the evil that would become the ultimate one, and my players loved it.