Weird MC - Int or Cha?

[Quoxis]

In my head, there‘s been an idea for a long time now.
Armor of agathys, an awesome spell even on higher levels, is wasted on a warlock - they can only ever upcast it with a level five slot at best. A multiclassed character with full spellcaster advancement could bring that up to a 9th level slot (which would be stupid, because wish exists).
Furthermore, AoA is an abjuration spell and combines incredibly well with an abjuration wizard‘s „arcane ward“ feature. By RAW, the ward takes the damage, but the cold damage from AoA still gets triggered - a wizard with this spell on can waltz into combat with up to 45 temporary hp + an arcane ward worth another 43 hp that can be refilled each round for a while.
(Thouse are lvl 20 numbers, but i think it could be viable on lower levels too)

Now i‘m facing a dilemma:
Should i invest in intelligence for the 19 levels of wizardry or in charisma for the arguably best damage cantrip from warlock? Especially if i sacrifice a few hp from the ward by taking more levels of warlock, that’d be tempting.
How viable can a „stupid wizard“ be? How many spells can be cast without making a spell attack roll or forcing a saving throw? And as always, should i start the build with a level of fighter for proficiencies in armor, weapons and con saves?

[Specter]

If you're planning on taking mostly Wizard levels, it would be a sin to leave INT low - especially since the ward relies on INT. Put 13 in CHA and never look back.

[JellyPooga]

Both?

If it must be one or t'other, then dump Cha. If you're planning on going into melee to use AoA, you won't be using EB that much anyway.

[Xihirli]

If you just want Eldritch Blast then go full wizard and take Magic Initiate (Warlock).
Your wizard cantrips will probably hit more often, though, and on one hit they'll deal comparable damage to all of your EBs hitting. If you also Hex them the multiple hits becomes worth it, and you can snatch that with Magic Initiate (Warlock), too.

[Spacehamster]

If you just want Eldritch Blast then go full wizard and take Magic Initiate (Warlock).
Your wizard cantrips will probably hit more often, though, and on one hit they'll deal comparable damage to all of your EBs hitting. If you also Hex them the multiple hits becomes worth it, and you can snatch that with Magic Initiate (Warlock), too.

Don’t think you can cast magic initiate spell with normal spell slots, read some post about that a while ago.

[Quoxis]

If you just want Eldritch Blast then go full wizard and take Magic Initiate (Warlock).
Your wizard cantrips will probably hit more often, though, and on one hit they'll deal comparable damage to all of your EBs hitting. If you also Hex them the multiple hits becomes worth it, and you can snatch that with Magic Initiate (Warlock), too.

I don’t particularly care about EB, i want AoA. And as i want to upcast it, which magic initiate doesn’t allow, i need at least one level of warlock.

[Quoxis]

If you're planning on taking mostly Wizard levels, it would be a sin to leave INT low - especially since the ward relies on INT. Put 13 in CHA and never look back.

The ward relies less than one would think on int - it’s a difference of 4 hp (given that i‘d need a 13 to mc anyway).
That aside: i think you’re right.

[OvisCaedo]

Hmm. Not sure if it'd be worth the offset, but it could make sense to take two levels of Warlock, actually. The Armor of Shadows invocation gives you unlimited self-casts of Mage Armor, which would normally be pointless to cast so much, but if multiclassing an Abjuration wizard gives a free way to recharge the ward freely between encounters, when there's a little time. The other way I know people do this is by making Deep Gnomes and taking their special feat to allow unlimited self-casting of Nondetection.

I suppose the extra level in 'lock would offset spell slot progression, though, while going for the gnome feat would only offset ability scores (which you already were considering how to get away with skimping on).

[Blood of Gaea]

"I Wish to cast Armor of Agathys."

But seriously, the best way to do it would be to steal the spell with a Bard.

... Why do you care so much about upscaling the spell slot with AoA?

[DarkKnightJin]

..The easiest would be to ask your DM if they would be alright with your Wizard learning AoA without dipping Warlock. Especially if you've already headed into Abjuration school. It'd make sense that an Abjuration specialist might be able to learn Abj spells that aren't on the Wiz list by RAW, I feel.

I don't know AoA by heart, but don't you need to be pretty close to the baddy you want to get hit by it for it to work?

And as we all know, Wizards prefer to NOT be in an enemy's face if they can help it.
Except maybe Bladesinger, but that's not an Abjuration mage.

[Blood of Gaea]

..The easiest would be to ask your DM if they would be alright with your Wizard learning AoA without dipping Warlock. Especially if you've already headed into Abjuration school. It'd make sense that an Abjuration specialist might be able to learn Abj spells that aren't on the Wiz list by RAW, I feel.

I don't know AoA by heart, but don't you need to be pretty close to the baddy you want to get hit by it for it to work?

And as we all know, Wizards prefer to NOT be in an enemy's face if they can help it.
Except maybe Bladesinger, but that's not an Abjuration mage.
They have to hit you with a melee attack, so yeah, pretty close up.

Honestly, if I was going for a temporary HP build as a full caster I would:

Be a Bard
Use the Inspiring Healer Feat.
Cast Heroes' Feast.

Now every short rest your entire party has 25 (assuming 20 Cha) temporary HP, +2d10 max HP, and the added bonuses from Heroes' Feast.

The only way I really see there being a point to pumping up Temp HP on an Abjuration Wizard is if your multiclassing Eldritch Knight.

[Quoxis]

"I Wish to cast Armor of Agathys."

But seriously, the best way to do it would be to steal the spell with a Bard.

... Why do you care so much about upscaling the spell slot with AoA?

Because in melee, you‘re a beast that deals 5xSpell level per hit taken, and the higher the slot, the higher the damage.
Taking it with bard‘s magic secrets would delay learning the spell to at least level 6, and i wouldn’t get arcane ward - that is, without wanting to sound offensive, worse in every aspect than the original build idea.

I‘ve never played on high levels, but i assumed that effectively getting 50 temporary hp (and that’s only at 3rd tier) would make you sturdy enough to take a few hits, even as a d6 wizard.

As i said: should i throw in a level of fighter for a bit more hp and the proficiencies? I feel like eldritch knight delays the progression too much as it effectively works with three fighter levels as a first level caster, when you can instead take one fighter level and two caster levels.

[DeTess]

It might be relevant to know that an Oath of Conquest Paladin also gets Armor of Agathys. Taking levels in Paladin will also give you access to better armor, some basic healing and some basic divine spells, while it sets your total caster level back as much as a warlock would, though you do have to take at least 3 levels to get the oath (and then you might want 4 for the ASI and getting 2 full-caster levels worth of spells slots out of it).

[Quoxis]

It might be relevant to know that an Oath of Conquest Paladin also gets Armor of Agathys. Taking levels in Paladin will also give you access to better armor, some basic healing and some basic divine spells, while it sets your total caster level back as much as a warlock would, though you do have to take at least 3 levels to get the oath (and then you might want 4 for the ASI and getting 2 full-caster levels worth of spells slots out of it).

Nice idea overall, though i don’t really like the rp of paladins (waaay too restrictive, but that’s not the point here) and i‘d have to have three stats at 13 just for the mc, making it slightly more MAD than before...
Nevertheless thank you for telling me, i‘m not quite accustomed to Xanathar’s classes yet.

[Spacehamster]

Nice idea overall, though i don’t really like the rp of paladins (waaay too restrictive, but that’s not the point here) and i‘d have to have three stats at 13 just for the mc, making it slightly more MAD than before...
Nevertheless thank you for telling me, i‘m not quite accustomed to Xanathar’s classes yet.

Conquest pala don’t have any restrictions, they are pretty much paladins that have given up on saving folks and instead want to rule them and incite order through any means necessary. :)

[Tanarii]

Because in melee, you‘re a beast that deals 5xSpell level per hit taken, and the higher the slot, the higher the damage.
Taking it with bard‘s magic secrets would delay learning the spell to at least level 6, and i wouldn’t get arcane ward - that is, without wanting to sound offensive, worse in every aspect than the original build idea.You can get the same thing with an Abjuration 2 Wizard dip on a Lore Bard. You just won't be able to start using AoA until to level 6, and Arcane Ward until level 8, which is a bit late in the game for most tables.

The advantage is you won't be 1 level behind on spell slots, although you will be 2 levels behind on spells known.

Scratch all that, I forgot Arcane Ward's initial value depends on wizard level. So ... right you are.

[Citan]

Because in melee, you‘re a beast that deals 5xSpell level per hit taken, and the higher the slot, the higher the damage.
Taking it with bard‘s magic secrets would delay learning the spell to at least level 6, and i wouldn’t get arcane ward - that is, without wanting to sound offensive, worse in every aspect than the original build idea.

I‘ve never played on high levels, but i assumed that effectively getting 50 temporary hp (and that’s only at 3rd tier) would make you sturdy enough to take a few hits, even as a d6 wizard.

As i said: should i throw in a level of fighter for a bit more hp and the proficiencies? I feel like eldritch knight delays the progression too much as it effectively works with three fighter levels as a first level caster, when you can instead take one fighter level and two caster levels.
Hi!

I'm honestly not sure to understand what you are actually looking for.
If it's just trying to get hit with AoA active while you use Booming Blade or GFB, then...
1) "Dump" CHA hard = 14.
2) Pick Hexblade Warlock 1.
You really don't need Fighter in that case. You are not really using concentration spells, so you can afford to wait a bit more to instead grab Resilient: Constitution if really need be (but don't forget that -much- later you get resistant against spells).
That way you are only one level behind your Wizard progression.
And you still have the option of grabbing another level of Warlock somewhere later to get the "free Ward refresh" cheese up and running as others explained above.
OR, if really you want to start with Constitution proficiency, pick Divine Soul Sorcerer instead. It's leagues above Fighter for you, the only loss is heavy armor proficiency (honestly not a big deal unless you planned on going full turtle and pick Heavy Armor master), every other proficiency is covered by Hexblade, and you gain 4 more cantrips, Shield (one more slot for Wizard spell) and another spell that you could learn as Wizard but might as well have always prepared (Feather Fall, Absorb Elements, Magic Missile, etc). As well as Cure Wounds or Bless. ;)


IF you plan on being a gish that has many different options
Then maybe "maining" CHA and balance Wizard and Glamour Bard (Command as bonus action) or Swords Bard (good gish) in addition to the single-level dip would be better... Although Arcane Ward would feel much less powerful later...

Or stick with Warlock / Wizard but go Warlock up to 5 for Blade's Extra Attack...
But progression will feel much slower of course, especially on the Ward side...

So I'd really advise the first option instead. ;)

[DeTess]

Conquest pala don’t have any restrictions, they are pretty much paladins that have given up on saving folks and instead want to rule them and incite order through any means necessary. :)

They do have some restrictions, best summed up as "If you have to fight the same guy twice, you've failed". If you're more evil-aligned this should be self-explanatory, and if you're more good(ish)-aligned, it just implies copious use of intimidate rolls. Ah, nothing quite like scaring the will to fight out of a bunch of dragon cultists by standing on the body of their dead dragon-leader, holding his head allot while every spell-caster in the party with access to illusions attempts to make you look like a war-god descended from the heavens to smite them. Good times.