How to Play a LE Goblin Wizard

[Verble]

So I recently attended TotalCon and played a couple characters. It was my first time playing 5e, as I haven't played D&D since 3e.

Since he's a goblin he has to be Zhentarim and LE. Never having played a LE character I'm curious to hear your opinions on what it really means. How dedicated to Law does it make him? Does being a meticulous planner count? Or that he serves his Faction above all?

"The Zhentarim seeks to become omnipresent and inescapable, more wealthy and powerful, and most importantly, untouchable."

His basic backstory has him growing up in a goblin warren ruled over by hobgoblins. He realizes it's a raw deal and that he cannot unite the other goblins to take back power, they're too scared of failure to rock the boat.

So he departs and winds up a petty street criminal with some basic magic talents he picks up in the back alleys.

Someone in the Zhentarim sees his potential and invests in his further magical education(with a contractual obligation of service, of course). And acts as something of a hands off mentor.

The Zhentarim are family to him. They got him off the streets, and he'd be no where without them. He would never dream of crossing them, and works hard to serve their interests.

Initially one of his personality traits was 'If you don't plan to get away, you plan to get caught'. He over thinks every situation, fueled by his paranoia and the need to prove his intelligence. He has no qualms about breaking the law, mindful only of the appearances and putting forward a good face for his Faction. Not sure if that really fits LE though. I imagined him being very emotionally detached most of the time, but as blood starts to be shed and he sets people on fire, he gets excited and a bit giddy, though he attempts to restrain his excitement and compose himself.

On reading some descriptions of playing a LE character, a quote that stuck out to me was, 'There is no such thing as good and evil, just power, and those too weak to seek it'. Though not strictly Lawful, it hints at a deeper Code to live by. This could fit his frustration at the other goblins not sticking to the plan of overthrowing their masters. So he has aligned himself with a Faction that he believes has the power to succeed, and carry him to a position of prominence as well.

Is loyalty to his Faction sufficient to consider him lawful? Or does there have to be more to it than that?

[DeTess]

First of all, have you seen this guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil) to that particular alignment? If you haven't yet, I'd say it's well worth the read.


Is loyalty to his Faction sufficient to consider him lawful? Or does there have to be more to it than that?

This could be enough, provided the faction itself isn't too Chaotic. Adding a personal code that you stick to rigidly might help too. A rough example of such a personal code could be:


I Will not begin hostilities with other Goblins. (If they start it, they're fair game)
I will honor surrenders once. (If someone surrenders to you, and then ends up in a situation where he has to do that again, he clearly is too stupid too live)
I will remain loyal to the Zentharim, as long as that loyalty is returned. (This should be self-explanatory)
I will not kill without cause, nor cause suffering without need. (Note that this doesn't preclude nay sort of evil acts. It simply means that you won't blow up an orphanage for evulz, but might to draw an otherwise unreachable opponent into a trap. Likewise you won't torture because you feel like it, but will for information)


Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel

[Unoriginal]

A lawful evil character is a character "who methodetically take what they want, within the limits of their code/tradition/etc".


That's it. Alignment isn't an huge deal in 5e, you have Ideals, Flaws and Bonds to also flesh out your PC's personality.

[opaopajr]

So, there is more than one way to read an Alignment, and intra-alignment disagreements are very possible. Your biggest help is talking with your GM. However since this is AL, this means you can float between GMs and are relatively on your own for interpretation.

In older editions we even accepted that there had to be logical gradients within each alignment. (Which explained when you'd see in some (oft home) adventures, "If [PCs] do X, it would move them Y steps toward [axis direction].") This presumes that each Alignment had several positions within them, (and gaining levels was expressing your dedication to such a world view in general).

Long story short, you could emphasize more or less Law, and more or less Evil, as per your PC conception. You might be more Le, or lE, maybe even le, than LE (that's four quick categories within the same box). And that means how close or far your PC is from shifting its world view, depending on its actions and struggles.

So I'd recommend don't over think it. And it's OK to be flexible and less dogmatic about it. There's always room for degree in interpretation. Just be consistent in concept, and remember AL doesn't allow Neutral Evil PCs. :smallsmile:

[Red Fel]

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel

Yo!


Is loyalty to his Faction sufficient to consider him lawful? Or does there have to be more to it than that?

Well, first, let me quote this one:


A lawful evil character is a character "who methodetically take what they want, within the limits of their code/tradition/etc".

That's it. Alignment isn't an huge deal in 5e, you have Ideals, Flaws and Bonds to also flesh out your PC's personality.

From my understanding, this is the key point - Alignment isn't as big a deal in 5e as it was in 3/3.5e.

That said, here is how I view it: Alignment is what shapes your worldview. That is, you are an [Alignment] person because of how you see the world, and how that informs what you believe is the proper course of action in a situation.

As such, it's a pretty fluid thing. So, coming back to your question:


Is loyalty to his Faction sufficient to consider him lawful? Or does there have to be more to it than that?

Yes, certainly. Or, alternatively, no, absolutely not. Depending on your perspective.

For example, is he loyal to his faction because he sees them as the strongest? That's not true loyalty, then - it's fleeting, since he could just as easily ditch them for someone he perceives to be stronger. Alternatively, is he loyal to them because, say, they're his friends? Anybody can be loyal to their friends, regardless of alignment.

On the other hand, is he loyal to his faction because he believes that together, organized, we can all be stronger? That belief in the self as a cog in a larger machine tends to be more Lawful. Alternatively, is he loyal to them because he feels that, if he serves them loyally and works his way up the ranks, he will be assured a position of power? That kind of using-the-system-for-personal-gain ambition is frequently associated with Lawful Evil.

The point I'm trying to make is that loyalty - be it blind loyalty, loyalty to friends, loyalty from convenience, or what have you - is merely one facet of a larger personality. It can reflect virtually any alignment. It may be sufficient, or insufficient, to establish your character as Lawful. It's all in how you paint it.

Now, in your specific case, his loyalty is gratitude. The Zhentarim saved him, so he owes them his life. His blind obedience would suggest Lawful tendencies - generally, the line between "I owe you" and "I will do whatever you say, no questions asked" is a Lawful one - but that alone isn't enough. I could see even a Chaotic character feeling strongly about life-debts, although he would chafe under the burden. The real question is: Do you want it to be enough?

It's very simple. If you say, "My character is Lawful Evil," then your character is Lawful Evil, because it's your character. If you believe that his blind loyalty to an LE faction is sufficient to make him Lawful Evil, then your character is Lawful Evil, because it's your character. From there, simply let that shape his worldview - how he views the world in terms of Law and Evil, and how that shapes his preferred course of action in any situation.

That's it. Then you're there.