Best weapon for a Bladesinger... Whip?

[Matrix_Walker]

I was wracking my brain to come up with a way to fit the mobile feat into my new Bladesinger's build when it occurred to me that there would be far less need for that Feat with the Whip. As a finesse reach weapon, I can attack at a distance with my elfy DEX and scamper off having never entered most opponent's reach.

Am I late to the party in noting how perfect a weapon this is for the Bladesinger? or am I missing something that makes this a sub-par choice (other than the o-so-low chance of finding a magic whip)?

[DivisibleByZero]

You're missing the fact that instead of mobile, you'll need spell sniper, if you want to actually do any damage with your Scag cantrips.
Without using the Scag cantrips, and only using a whip, your damage will lag behind significantly. Otherwise you may as well be throwing daggers.

[Matrix_Walker]

That point was not lost on me, but I can still attack with the scag's if I feel daring enough to enter the 5-foot range, and level 6 will come soon enough that I will be using extra attack more than the weapon cantrips.

[Zene]

I was wracking my brain to come up with a way to fit the mobile feat into my new Bladesinger's build when it occurred to me that there would be far less need for that Feat with the Whip. As a finesse reach weapon, I can attack at a distance with my elfy DEX and scamper off having never entered most opponent's reach.

Am I late to the party in noting how perfect a weapon this is for the Bladesinger? or am I missing something that makes this a sub-par choice (other than the o-so-low chance of finding a magic whip)?

I came to the same conclusion. Whip is pretty great.

And I forget the math, but IIRC there’s only a few levels (other than 1-5) where the blade cantrips beat the Attack action. Though as you said it’s not like you can’t blade cantrip with the whip from normal melee range.

One drawback to whip is you can’t dual-wield it (without a feat) ...but once you get Animate Objects you’ve got a better use for your bonus action anyway.

[Strifer]

The cantrips have a range of only 5 foot, zo the 10 ft range doesn't matter... unfortunately.

[Davrix]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/01/14/can-booming-blade-and-green-flame-blade-used-with-a-whip/

Looks like spell sniper will work with GFB by the looks of it.

[Blood of Gaea]

So long as you don't mind the hit to damage, there's not much reason not to go for the reach. And in fact, if you look at the flavor text of the Bladesinger, the "Snake" school of Bladesingers use a flail, chain, or whip.


And I forget the math, but IIRC there’s only a few levels (other than 1-5) where the blade cantrips beat the Attack action. Though as you said it’s not like you can’t blade cantrip with the whip from normal melee range.
The numbers in parenthesis are averages.
Level 6, 16 Dex, 18 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+6(11).
Booming Blade: 1d4+3+1d8 (10) and 2d8(9) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+3+1d8 (10) and 1d8+4(8.5) to a second creature.

Level 11, 16 Dex, 20 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+6(11).
Booming Blade: 1d4+3+2d8 (14.5) and 3d8(13.5) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+3+2d8 (14.5) and 2d8+5(14) to a second creature.

Level 14, 18 Dex, 20 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+18(23).
Booming Blade: 1d4+9+2d8 (20.5) and 3d8(13.5) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+9+2d8 (20.5) and 2d8+5(14) to a second creature.

Level 17, 18 Dex, 20 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+18(23).
Booming Blade: 1d4+9+3d8 (25) and 4d8(18) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+9+3d8 (25) and 3d8+5(18.5) to a second creature.

[Zene]

So long as you don't mind the hit to damage, there's not much reason not to go for the reach. And in fact, if you look at the flavor text of the Bladesinger, the "Snake" school of Bladesingers use a flail, chain, or whip.


The numbers in parenthesis are averages.
Level 6, 16 Dex, 18 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+6(11).
Booming Blade: 1d4+3+1d8 (10) and 2d8(9) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+3+1d8 (10) and 1d8+4(8.5) to a second creature.

Level 11, 16 Dex, 20 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+6(11).
Booming Blade: 1d4+3+2d8 (14.5) and 3d8(13.5) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+3+2d8 (14.5) and 2d8+5(14) to a second creature.

Level 14, 18 Dex, 20 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+18(23).
Booming Blade: 1d4+9+2d8 (20.5) and 3d8(13.5) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+9+2d8 (20.5) and 2d8+5(14) to a second creature.

Level 17, 18 Dex, 20 Int:
Extra Attack: 2d4+18(23).
Booming Blade: 1d4+9+3d8 (25) and 4d8(18) if they move.
Greenflame Blade: 1d4+9+3d8 (25) and 3d8+5(18.5) to a second creature.

Numbers get skewed a bit more toward extra attack with a magic weapon; and if you use a weapon with a higher damage die, of course; and if you raise your stats higher via tomes or whatever.

In the games I play, the secondary damage on the blade cantrips procs pretty infrequently; enemies don’t stand right next to each other for gfb, and unless you have mobile or similar or are willing to take an oppty Attack, bb’d enemies tend to just stand there and hit someone in melee range or use a ranged attack instead of triggering extra damage. Or often they just die before their turn comes up again. But YMMV there.

[Blood of Gaea]

Numbers get skewed a bit more toward extra attack with a magic weapon; and if you use a weapon with a higher damage die, of course; and if you raise your stats higher via tomes or whatever.

In the games I play, the secondary damage on the blade cantrips procs pretty infrequently; enemies don’t stand right next to each other for gfb, and unless you have mobile or similar or are willing to take an oppty Attack, bb’d enemies tend to just stand there and hit someone in melee range or use a ranged attack instead of triggering extra damage. Or often they just die before their turn comes up again. But YMMV there.
*shrug* I was just putting the numbers out there so they could make their own decision on it.

Essentially, if you can either use Booming Blade as a control ability to keep opponents from moving, or tag another creature with Greenflame, it's better to use those. Otherwise, you'll generally get more mileage out of your Extra Attack.

And of course, if you pick up Warcaster Booming Blade is a great reaction cantrip. It tacks on extra damage and forces the opponent to stop running away or eat the rider damage.

[Lombra]

The toughest monsters are big anyways, and have a reach of 10ft. Not really worth it imo.

[Hesh]

You're missing the fact that instead of mobile, you'll need spell sniper, if you want to actually do any damage with your Scag cantrips.
Without using the Scag cantrips, and only using a whip, your damage will lag behind significantly. Otherwise you may as well be throwing daggers.
As a Bladesinger, you're usually better off Wizarding with the benefits of Bladesigning rather than being a pseudo martial. Leave it to barbarians, Paladins and Fighters to fight up close.

[Deathtongue]

The best weapon for a Bladesinger is not a whip, use of Spell Sniper or no.

1.) Whip loses out to Shadow Blade badly in the raw damage department.
2.) Whip loses out on the Haste + SCAG Cantrip + Offhand attack combo, not being a light weapon. You could grab another feat to fix that, but you're already burning a feat just to grab Spell Sniper. And you absolutely need Resilient: CON or Warcaster.
3.) If you're using Tenser's Transformation, you can't use Cantrips anyway.

There are some niche situations in which a whip is the best option (i.e. you frequently have two monsters clustered together behind an obstacle or another monster you want to target) but for the most part? If you want to do damage, use Shadow Blade or Scimitars/Shortswords with Haste or Tenser's Transformation. If you want to trigger Booming Blade, get Mobile instead.