Wu Jen Candle Caster build help

[Blackhawk748]

Full disclosure, i don't play prepped casters. I don't really like prepped casting as a mechanic and therefore i typically play things like Sorcs or Warlocks, but i rather like the Candle Caster from Tome and Blood and prepped casters work with it better than Spont. So i figured id give a Wu Jen a shot as i find it a neat class and it isnt the Wizard.

Gray Elf Wu Jen 6/Candle Caster 9/Archmage 5

1:Great Fortitude*, Sudden Extend b
3: Spell Focus (Transmutation), Spell Secret (Wall of Gloom, Extend)
6: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Elemental Mastery (Metal)
9: Skill Focus: Spellcraft
12: Extra Spell Secret (Globe of Invulnerability, Enlarge)
15:
18:

Skills: Craft (Candlemaking), Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft

So thats all i got. I plan on doing general support as well as some low key blasting (Hi Storm of Needles and Decapitating Scarf) and then just having a butt ton of spells available with all of my candles (as we typically waive the XP cost of crating)

[Zaq]

The thing about Candle Caster (and other characters like Artificers that rely heavily on making and then using consumable magic items) is that it's basically "prepared casting, ultra edition." If you're not firmly comfortable prepping spells each day, consider how much more investment it takes to prepare your candles for each quest, since you aren't likely to be able to make many of them mid-adventure.

That said, I approve of going outside one's comfort zone, and I agree that Candle Caster is thematically interesting enough to be worth exploring its weirdness.

What you need to decide is basically what role you want your candles to play relative to your daily allotment of spells. Items like scrolls (and by extension, candles) are traditionally used for spells that you might not have prepped all the time but that come up occasionally; you didn't expect the dungeon to have a water-filled room, for example, so you didn't prep Water Breathing normally because you thought that prepping Haste and Dispel Magic would be more useful, but you happen to have a scroll of it in your pack. If you're using Candle Caster, though, I would imagine that you're eager to use candles as often as is practicable, so you might have a different attitude than normal. Which is fine. Just kind of thinking out loud, as it were. Remember that blasting spells or other spells that rely on CL and on save DCs are way more useful to cast as normal spells than as candle spells, since candles use minimum save DC and are also more expensive to craft with higher-than-minimum CL (ignoring the "minimum CL isn't defined as strictly as we'd like" argument).

It's not necessarily likely to fit with the build you described, but I have an amusing mental image of a caster with UMD who has some fiery familiar (a fire elemental, a fire mephit, etc.). The familiar's job is to light the candles while the master casts spells normally. (You'd need a way to get UMD somehow and then you'd need to spend at least one if not two feats getting an appropriate familiar, so it's not compatible with what you laid out, but I find it amusing nonetheless.)

Basically, a Candle Caster is just a normal caster who spent a feat and some skill points (and levels, but if you weren't building towards another PrC, the levels can be thought of as being very similar to your base class levels) to get a weird method of scribing scrolls. How important the candles are on a day-by-day or round-by-round basis is kind of up to you and your playstyle, and there isn't going to be a single right answer there.

One small trick that might be useful is to use Dipped Candle to make candles where the first spell has a long duration but a "you can discharge this to do XYZ" clause, thereby giving you a measure of control over when the second spell fires off. Something similar to Heart of Air, for example, would basically let you turn the second spell in the candle into an immediate action as long as you activated the candle in advance. (Heart of Air specifically is actually not a great example because the Feather Fall effect still lasts several rounds before the spell fully expires, but that's the kind of dischargeable spell that you should look for.)

[Blackhawk748]

The thing about Candle Caster (and other characters like Artificers that rely heavily on making and then using consumable magic items) is that it's basically "prepared casting, ultra edition." If you're not firmly comfortable prepping spells each day, consider how much more investment it takes to prepare your candles for each quest, since you aren't likely to be able to make many of them mid-adventure.

That said, I approve of going outside one's comfort zone, and I agree that Candle Caster is thematically interesting enough to be worth exploring its weirdness.

Ya, i thought of it more as covering my own rear end for making sure i had sufficient spells available to me, as im used to "tool box" casting.


What you need to decide is basically what role you want your candles to play relative to your daily allotment of spells. Items like scrolls (and by extension, candles) are traditionally used for spells that you might not have prepped all the time but that come up occasionally; you didn't expect the dungeon to have a water-filled room, for example, so you didn't prep Water Breathing normally because you thought that prepping Haste and Dispel Magic would be more useful, but you happen to have a scroll of it in your pack. If you're using Candle Caster, though, I would imagine that you're eager to use candles as often as is practicable, so you might have a different attitude than normal. Which is fine. Just kind of thinking out loud, as it were. Remember that blasting spells or other spells that rely on CL and on save DCs are way more useful to cast as normal spells than as candle spells, since candles use minimum save DC and are also more expensive to craft with higher-than-minimum CL (ignoring the "minimum CL isn't defined as strictly as we'd like" argument).

I see the candles primarily serving as my pool of situational utility spells as well as buffs that dont really rely on CL (like Water Breathing, Spider Climb, Levitate, Rope Trick, Blur etc.) Otherwise im gonna be chucking out my blaster spells with my actual slots(well, i may stick something like Lightning Blade in a candle).


One small trick that might be useful is to use Dipped Candle to make candles where the first spell has a long duration but a "you can discharge this to do XYZ" clause, thereby giving you a measure of control over when the second spell fires off. Something similar to Heart of Air, for example, would basically let you turn the second spell in the candle into an immediate action as long as you activated the candle in advance. (Heart of Air specifically is actually not a great example because the Feather Fall effect still lasts several rounds before the spell fully expires, but that's the kind of dischargeable spell that you should look for.)

This is why i made the thread, for tricks that utilize the mechanical quirks of the candles (cuz otherwise i would just use refluffed scrolls) and thats a great simple and effective trick (while not being crazy abusive or anything)

[Kelb_Panthera]

One thing that's -really- easy to overlook about the spell Chandler's candles is that they are, in fact, candles. It's a relatively minor thing but each one is a light source that lasts as long as the spell it produces. Permanent spell; permanent light source.

Also note that you can extinguish your candles. This effectively makes -all- spells that are not instantaneous into dismissable spells, regardless of their normal duration entry, when made into spell candles.

On the wu-jen, consider holding off candle caster until wu-jen 6 for elemental mastery.

You should also note one of the unique features that only the wizard and wu-jen have with regard to preparation; you don't have to fill your entire allotment at the beginning of the day. You can leave any number of fresh slots open to prepare spells later in the day. At any point during the day when you have 15 minutes of calm, you can use that time to prepare a number of spells from 1 up to 1/4 of your total spell slots as long as you still have slots open. This "prep'-as-you-go" ability really helps to offset the fact that you often don't know what's going to happen on any given adventuring day.

That's all I've got off the top of my head.

[Blackhawk748]

One thing that's -really- easy to overlook about the spell Chandler's candles is that they are, in fact, candles. It's a relatively minor thing but each one is a light source that lasts as long as the spell it produces. Permanent spell; permanent light source.

Also note that you can extinguish your candles. This effectively makes -all- spells that are not instantaneous into dismissable spells, regardless of their normal duration entry, when made into spell candles.

The light thing is kinda neat, not super useful as candles are lousy light sources, but it is a thing. Im more interested on the dismiss-able thing. Right now im thinking its pretty useful for BFC as being able to just get rid of it can be quite helpful.



On the wu-jen, consider holding off candle caster until wu-jen 6 for elemental mastery.

Oh ya, totally doing that, cuz its pretty a pretty nice bonus.

[Endarire]

I'm curious why you went with Wu Jen instead of Wizard. (I'm generally unfamiliar with Wu Jen mechanically.)

[Zombulian]

I'm curious why you went with Wu Jen instead of Wizard. (I'm generally unfamiliar with Wu Jen mechanically.)

Because it's badass.

On a more practical note, if I were to warrant I guess, Wu Jen has a much more restrictive list than Wizard so even though it's a prepared caster you don't have to deal with as many options.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm curious why you went with Wu Jen instead of Wizard. (I'm generally unfamiliar with Wu Jen mechanically.)

Wu-jen is nearly identical to wizard mechanically. The major difference by far is the spell list. After that it's basically just swap familiar with watchful spirit (just an initiative reroll), scribe scroll for a metamagic, and the bonus feats for a getting a few of your spells known permanently upgraded with a free metamagic from the provided list (spell secret feature.) Add a twist of elemental specialization (not like school specialization at all, just a couple minor bonuses) and that's it. Oh and you get a "taboo" for each of the permanently upgraded spells as a roleplaying restriction.

It's interesting flavor but decidedly less filling than its western counterpart. Couple of real gems on the spell list that aren't anywhere else. If you like a wizard for the way it plays, you'll like a wu-jen. If you like a wizard for the overflowing power, look elsewhere. If you dislike wizard, wu-jen probably won't treat you any better.