Who wants to take a shot at statting out Aragorn for 5e?

[krunchyfrogg]

I think he’s got some paladin, fighter, and ranger levels in him.

I’m curious to see what people would give him.


I’m gonna guess half elf to represent the Dúnedain blood, although human works too.

[Tiadoppler]

I'd be reluctant to give him any explicit magical spells at all. He's good at survival, nature, persuasion, and medicine, and he's described as a ranger, but I'd stat him out as a Battlemaster Fighter/Scout Rogue personally.

Also, he rolled his stats at home, but promised the DM that his cat witnessed all the 16s-18s.

[Naanomi]

V Human fighter with Inspiring Leader and probably Skilled Feat? No need to be particularly high level

[AureusFulgens]

Also, he rolled his stats at home, but promised the DM that his cat witnessed all the 16s-18s.


This is kind of the thing about trying to stat-up LotR characters. They are not in any sense balanced. I'd say that Aragorn and Legolas in particular have excellent stats in pretty much everything but maybe Intelligence (and they both might be pretty decent in that department too). And let's not even get into some of the characters from the Silmarillion.

If "Eldar" was a player race, it would probably grant +6 to all six stats and lift all ability caps, not to mention granting biological immortality, Keen Senses, innate magic, weapon training, increased speed, and... yeah, you get the point.



I'd be reluctant to give him any explicit magical spells at all. He's good at survival, nature, persuasion, and medicine, and he's described as a ranger, but I'd stat him out as a Battlemaster Fighter/Scout Rogue personally.

And here's the other problem. Middle-Earth, especially Third Age Middle-Earth, is basically a low-magic setting. The entire Fellowship is basically Fighters (the Three Companions and Boromir) or Rogues (the hobbits), with one caster of some sort (Gandalf). You could, I suppose, create a Ranger whose spells are fluffed as just being IMPOSSIBLY good at some mundane task - Aragorn's level of tracking ability ("I can stare at grass and narrate a detailed escape scene during a pitched battle") simply doesn't exist in real life, for example. Or, in Legolas' case, the spells might reflect his inherent power as an elf.

With all that being said, if I were to give it a shot, I'd probably use Ranger myself, and suck up the fact that it makes him more explicitly magical than the literary/cinematic character, and that I could only make him by rolling ludicrously good stats. There's also a compelling argument to be made for Paladin, if (again) you ignore the explicit magic thing. He's a supernaturally good healer with an inspiring presence and Hero written all over him. If I have time at some point I might try making the actual character sheet.

[2D8HP]

I'd be reluctant to give him any explicit magical spells at all. He's good at survival, nature, persuasion, and medicine, and he's described as a ranger, but I'd stat him out as a Battlemaster Fighter/Scout Rogue personally.

Also, he rolled his stats at home, but promised the DM that his cat witnessed all the 16s-18s.


Despite being "A ponce who thinks 'e should be King does he" according to someone that 'someone' would be me, 2D8HP, Aragorn is pretty damn BADASS! and does he need all those short rests?

http://shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/images/comic_lotr4.jpg

So I think Champion Fighter level 5+, Scout Ranger at least 3, and with two levels of Barbarian (Danger Sense), and one level of Ranger (for Natural Explorer).

And give him the Healer Feat.

[Temperjoke]

Well, it could also be pointed out that the characters aren't all at the same level which could explain some of the ability difference, since epic level characters are well beyond normal humanoids.

For Aragorn, he likely has the Healer, Inspiring Leader, and maybe Martial Adept feats. I'd also guess that some of his tool and skill proficiencies were learned during downtime, since he's skilled in herbalism for example. The Healer ability would cover his medical abilities.

I'd have him be a mix of Scout Ranger and maybe Cavalier Fighter, as he's shown to be skilled with riding horses (at least the movie version was, it's been a while since I've had the pleasure of reading the books) in addition to his combat skills.

[Malifice]

Human Hunter Ranger 8, Favoured enemies [Human, Orcs, Beasts, Giants, Undead; Natural explorer: forest and grassland, Horde breaker, Steel will], Champion fighter 3.

Fighting styles: Archery and great weapon style.

Spells: Good berry, hunters mark, longstrider, pass without trace, locate animals or plants

Outlander background.

Inspiring leader feat.

[Malifice]

Well, it could also be pointed out that the characters aren't all at the same level which could explain some of the ability difference, since epic level characters are well beyond normal humanoids.

For Aragorn, he likely has the Healer, Inspiring Leader, and maybe Martial Adept feats. I'd also guess that some of his tool and skill proficiencies were learned during downtime, since he's skilled in herbalism for example. The Healer ability would cover his medical abilities.

I'd have him be a mix of Scout Ranger and maybe Cavalier Fighter, as he's shown to be skilled with riding horses (at least the movie version was, it's been a while since I've had the pleasure of reading the books) in addition to his combat skills.

That is how he fluffs his goodberry spell.

[Malifice]

And here's the other problem. Middle-Earth, especially Third Age Middle-Earth, is basically a low-magic setting. The entire Fellowship is basically Fighters (the Three Companions and Boromir) or Rogues (the hobbits), with one caster of some sort (Gandalf). You could, I suppose, create a Ranger whose spells are fluffed as just being IMPOSSIBLY good at some mundane task - Aragorn's level of tracking ability ("I can stare at grass and narrate a detailed escape scene during a pitched battle") simply doesn't exist in real life, for example. Or, in Legolas' case, the spells might reflect his inherent power as an elf.


They are best represented in 5E as refluffed spells.

Aragorn's ability to move the companions through dangerous territory unseen, and his ability to be unnoticed is his pass without trace spell for example.

His uncanny supernatural ability to track things is because of Hunter's Mark.

His skill with herbs is good berry. Ditto lesser restoration if you want to include it. Maybe the herb Athas is a power ingredient that lets the spell do more than it normally does. But only in the hands of the rightful King of Gondor.

They are pretty heavily alluded to being supernatural powers in the books anyway.

[Kane0]

Well, wouldn't he be a ranger? It's where the original kit got its inspiration from, right? Probably a Hunter since Beastmaster seems more like Driz, the other famous ranger.

It's like when people ask about building Conan. You know, Conan the Barbarian. Sure, they probably have some multiclassing and/or feats for some stuff (mostly relevant to plot or expanded content) but overall you'd think the class they are associated with would cover most of it.

[A Fat Dragon]

I’d say Aragorn is a Ranger (Revised) Hunter, with the Spells re-skinned as moments of extreme tenacity, skill, or using things like torches for Flaming Arrows.

Stats:
20 Str, 20 Dex, 18 Con, 14 Int, 18 Wis, 16 Cha

Skills: Nature, Survival, Animal Handling, Insight, Perception, Stealth, Acrobatics, Athletics, Persuasion, Intimidation.

Tool Proficiencies: Land Vehicles, Herbalism Kits, and Medical Kits

Feats: Inspiring Leader, Healer, Sword Mastery (Forget the name), Sharpshooter

[Saiga]

Well, wouldn't he be a ranger? It's where the original kit got its inspiration from, right? Probably a Hunter since Beastmaster seems more like Driz, the other famous ranger.

It's like when people ask about building Conan. You know, Conan the Barbarian. Sure, they probably have some multiclassing and/or feats for some stuff (mostly relevant to plot or expanded content) but overall you'd think the class they are associated with would cover most of it.

Not if that concept has drifted away from the inspiration, as the Ranger has. At the same time, the Ranger was a kit for Fighters, so you could argue that Aragaron is best represented by the 5E version of a kit - a Fighter subclass.

[Naanomi]

Why does everyone want him to be so high level? His greatest combat feats are what... groups of orcs, soloing an Ogre, driving away wights? Mostly with a reasonably sized party backing him? Getting into death saving throws by orcs on wargs? Running away from a Balor? Not screaming ‘high level character’ to me

[Malifice]

Why does everyone want him to be so high level? His greatest combat feats are what... groups of orcs, soloing an Ogre, driving away wights? Mostly with a reasonably sized party backing him? Getting into death saving throws by orcs on wargs? Running away from a Balor? Not screaming ‘high level character’ to me

Hero bloat.

He's like 9-11 level.

Lol at those giving him stats of 20. Arnie has a strength of 20. His strength is more like 16. His Dex about the same. Probably lower. Con is high (he can literally run for days). Int is nothing special probably 10 or so. Wisdom is OK at around 13. Has a decent cha.

S 16
D 15
C 16
I 10
W 13
Ch 15

[Angelalex242]

I'd say he needs at least one Paladin level. Cause Anduril is totally a Holy Avenger. Especially since the original form Narsil cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand.

[strangebloke]

Why does everyone want him to be so high level? His greatest combat feats are what... groups of orcs, soloing an Ogre, driving away wights? Mostly with a reasonably sized party backing him? Getting into death saving throws by orcs on wargs? Running away from a Balor? Not screaming ‘high level character’ to me

To be fair, such feats are kind of hard to actually assign stats to. He gets rolled (in the movies) by a bunch of wargs and a really big fall, but what does that mean? LotR orcs aren't really comparable to dnd orcs. Even then, did he get grappled by a normal orc, or by a CR 4 Orc Chieftain? He runs from a balor, but while the 5e balor can get beaten up by a large 7th level party... the Balrog can't. The nazgul are a bit wight-like, but they're also the shadows of sorcerer-kings who are capable of inspiring terror to entire armies. They're honestly more comparably to Liches than they are to wights.

Those feats of 'killing a bunch of orcs' are certifiably insane by 5e standards. Both the book and movie estimates have a 100-150 Uruk-hai at Amon Hen. The books have that force supplemented by 150 to 200 humans and lesser orcs, the latter of which are probably more analogous to goblins. Boromir kills 20, dying only to arrow spam. Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli kill some unspecified number. In the movies they kill several dozen apiece. The group carrying Merry and Pippin away is about 30-40 in number in the movies, and more like 60-70 in the books. Legolas notes that he is completely out of arrows despite just restocking in Lorien and has been fighting with his knives for some time. So it seems likely that Legolas, Aragorn, and Gimli each killed something like 15-20 orcs there in the movies, and more like 30-40 or so in the books.

At Helm's deep they're backed up by an army, sure, but even then, Aragorn is seen leading dozens of sallies against the Uruks, presumably killing more than Gimli or Legolas, who mostly fought on top of the walls. Gimli fights in the caves later, and only then catches up to the lead Legolas got by firing arrows at the beginning.

From a 5e standpoint, these are reasonably high-level feats. Even with rangers being AOE specialists, taking on 30 of anything is no joke.

But yeah, he's at best 11th level or so.

I'd honestly just roll up a straight STR-based hunter ranger. Aragorn can't cast spells, but his herblore, tracking skill, and general prowess might as well amount to magic. Specifically the healing he performs on Eowyn looks like lesser restoration to me. Even then, I hate statting every character from a lower magic setting as "Champion #6."

Vhuman: Inspiring Leader
Hunter 11

Str:16 (He's good, but he's notably weaker than Boromir)
Dex: 14 (Good shot, but he's' better with a sword)
Con: 14(Can run for days, and takes some pretty serious hits in the movies.)
Int: 10 (He's not an idiot, and not a genius.)
Wis: 14 (He sees Boromir's corruption unfolding in realtime, he has a great wisdom save, he is great at WIS-related skills...)
Cha: 10 (He can lead, technically, but he has trouble getting people to buy into his plans, and he is pretty mild-mannered overall.)

1st ASI: Dex
2nd ASI: Str

favored enemy: orcs

Horde breaker, whirlwind attack, GWF.

[Klorox]

As noted above, LotR is tough to translate into standard D&D.

STR 15/16 (strong, not as strong as Boromir)
DEX 13/14 (good, not great)
CON 17/18 (runs for day, takes hits like crazy)
INT 10/12 (he’s well read, but nothing great)
WIS 16 (wisdom of the elves, he’s a great king)
CHA 14/15 (he’s a leader)

If you’re playing AL, I’d probably ditch DEX and wear heavy armor, starting as a fighter and adding ranger later. As noted in the OP, half elf is an option (Aragorn dies of natural causes at over 200 years old, and he related to Elrond).

There are definitely fighter levels, he’s a ranger, as all Dúnedain are, and I think paladin is accurate for his healing abilities and Narsil/Anduril has just got to be a holy avenger.

[Naanomi]

I was tempted to give him Bard levels because of how many things he seems to be proficient (or at least half-proficient) in... Stealth, Perception, Nature, History, Medicine, Insight... arguably Investigation, Athletics, and Animal Handling... by the end Persuasion

[Lombra]

Spelless ranger? With skilled as his v human feat?

[strangebloke]

Spelless ranger? With skilled as his v human feat?

Spell-less ranger is perfect.

If Aragorn goes half elf, he'll have... Seven skills?

Survival, perception, insight, history, nature, medicine, and stealth would be my picks.

Honestly I'd pick prodigy before I'd pick skilled. Give Aragorn expertise in survival.

[Spacehamster]

Simple: Spell less ranger variant with couple of levels scout rogue tossed in for expertise in tracking and survival and such.

[EvilAnagram]

Why is he a spell-less ranger? He uses plants (components) to perform mystical healing (Lesser Restoration, Protection from Poison) that the herbalists of Gondor cannot touch.

I can easily see him as an eighth-level ranger who spent his ASIs on Skilled.

[Hesh]

I was tempted to give him Bard levels because of how many things he seems to be proficient (or at least half-proficient) in... Stealth, Perception, Nature, History, Medicine, Insight... arguably Investigation, Athletics, and Animal Handling... by the end Persuasion

Refluffing Rogue's Sneak attack as Precision Strikes with his bow, and Thieves Cant as the language of Arnor of old feels more fitting IMHO. He doesn't need more than 2 levels to give him the burst of speed for Heroic Action.

[Spacehamster]

Why is he a spell-less ranger? He uses plants (components) to perform mystical healing (Lesser Restoration, Protection from Poison) that the herbalists of Gondor cannot touch.

I can easily see him as an eighth-level ranger who spent his ASIs on Skilled.

Herbal healing is not magic tho? Using plants and such is used to this day in the real world too.

And spell less ranger has an early ability that does just that so it’s a perfect fit. :)

[Naanomi]

Alrighty... after some thought this is my attempt... rolled stats because he doesn’t have an obvious dump stat to make point buy work either narratively or mechanically (it would be something like 16/14/14/10/12/8?)

Variant Human
Customized Outlander
Rogue (Scout) 4/Fighter (Banneret) 7
16/16/16/12/14/12
Languages: Westron, Sindarin, Quenya
Tools: Herbalism
Athletics, Stealth, Perception, Insight, Medicine, History, Investigation, (Survival), (Nature), (Persuasion)

Medium Armor Mastery, Healer, Lucky, Inspiring Leader

[Tvtyrant]

Herbal healing is not magic tho? Using plants and such is used to this day in the real world too.

And spell less ranger has an early ability that does just that so it’s a perfect fit. :)

It is in LotR. His ability to use kings foil isn't just knowing what it is and how to use it, it is his particular magic and bloodline that make it so effective.

Magic in d&d is a lot like programming codes, magic in LotR it is a combination of lore and special circumstances.

[Lombra]

It is in LotR. His ability to use kings foil isn't just knowing what it is and how to use it, it is his particular magic and bloodline that make it so effective.

Magic in d&d is a lot like programming codes, magic in LotR it is a combination of lore and special circumstances.

Herbalism kit already allows you to make potions of healing which are magical, so no need to have spell slots regardless.

[Zonugal]

How about something like this?

Aragorn

http://www.christopherfenoglio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Aragorn.jpg

"Hold your ground! Hold your ground! Sons of Gondor, of Rohan. My brothers. I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me! A day may come, when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of Fellowship, but it is not this day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you, stand, men of the West!"

Aragorn II Elessar; Chieftain of the Dúnedain, Heir of Isildur
Half-Elf ‘Spell-less’ ‘Hunter Conclave’ ’Revised’ Ranger 6 with the Outlander background
Medium humanoid (human, elf), Lawful Good
Armor class 17 (chain shirt) or 19 (half plate)
Hit points 52 (6d10+12)
Speed 30 ft.
---
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 12
---
Saving Throws Strength +6, Dexterity +7, & Wisdom +5
Skills Athletics +5, Insight +4, Musical Instrument (Pan Flute) +3, Nature +2, Perception +4, Persuasion +4, Stealth +6, and Survival +4
Feats Resilient (Wisdom)
Senses passive Perception 14; darkvision (60 ft.)
Languages Common, Elvish, Goblin, Orc, & Undercommon
Challenge 6
---
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Darkvision (60 ft.), Fey Ancestry, Skill Versatility
Background Abilities: Wanderer
Class Abilities: Favored Enemy (Humanoids; +4), Natural Explorer, Combat Superiority (4d8/rest; Commanding Strike, Precision Attack, Rally; Maneuver Save DC 14), Fighting Style (Defense), Hunter’s Prey (Horde Breaker), Poultices (1/rest; 3d6 healing), Extra Attack, and Greater Favored Enemy (Fiends; +4)
---
Actions
Dagger. Melee weapon attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4+3) piercing damage; finesse, light, thrown (range 20/60)
Longsword. Melee weapon attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) slashing damage; versatile (1d10)
+1 Greatsword. Melee weapon attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 9 (2d6+3) slashing damage; heavy, two-handed
Longbow. Ranged weapon attack: +6 to hit, range 150 ft./600 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8+3) piercing damage; ammunition, heavy & two-handed
---
Equipment: A belt pouch (5 gp), a chain shirt, two daggers, a set of dark common clothes with a hood, an explorer’s pack, a +1 greatsword, a longbow with a quiver of 20 arrows, a longsword, Ring of Protection, and a trinket (the elfstone).

[EvilAnagram]

Herbal healing is not magic tho? Using plants and such is used to this day in the real world too.

And spell less ranger has an early ability that does just that so it’s a perfect fit. :)

That's not what happens. In Tolkien, magic is subtle, and the kingsfoil has healing properties that can only be brought out by the hands of the kings of Numenor. Aragorn's innate power draws the healing capabilities of the herb. Herbalists cannot bring out that magic.


Herbalism kit already allows you to make potions of healing which are magical, so no need to have spell slots regardless.
He doesn't make potions. He crushes the plant and uses his innate power to unlock its healing potential. It's a very evocative image that fits well with some spells.


How about something like this?

Well, he's not half elven. Elrond is, but Aragorn is far removed from elven blood. He wouldn't have darkvision or a magic ring, and Narsil is a longsword. Greatswords were as tall as a man, mostly used as polearms.

[Lombra]

He doesn't make potions. He crushes the plant and uses his innate power to unlock its healing potential. It's a very evocative image that fits well with some spells.

You can fluff it however you want to. The point is that you don't need spellcasting or magic in any way shape or form to achieve magical healing, which is what you are pointing out Aragorn should be able to do. You can give the reason you want to give for how the character can do so, what I am saying is that rules already support your view.

[Zonugal]

Well, he's not half elven. Elrond is, but Aragorn is far removed from elven blood.

Had to pick something to represent him and I feel Human would fall short.


He wouldn't have darkvision or a magic ring, and Narsil is a longsword. Greatswords were as tall as a man, mostly used as polearms.

What would you consider the Ring of Barahir?

And I'm happy with Narsil being a great sword as its huge, but I'd certainly see no issue with it being down-graded to a long sword.

[Angelalex242]

It's probably a bastard sword. Aragorn rarely uses a shield. But its totally a Holy Avenger regardless, which means he needs at least 1 Paladin level. Probably 2 so he can cast Protection from Evil, or maybe even 6 to abuse Divine Grace. 7 with oath of devotion grants him immunity to Charm, which is why he can use a Palantir.

Don't worry about scaling the Wizards. Wizards aren't human wizards, they're Celestials not allowed to take their celestial form.
The Balrog is obviously a Balor...and Gandalf solos it. Pretty good proof he's a badass Celestial. On top of him being classed 'Maiar' which are celestials in Tolkien's world.
Sauron himself is a demon prince, about on par with Demgorgon or Graz'zt or whoever. But he's still just a Maiar.

[TheYell]

The sons of Earendil, grandsons (?) of Luthien and Beren, were half-elf and were tasked to choose a doom by the Valar after the fall of Thangorodrim, the doom of men or the doom of elves. Elrond's the side of the family that chose immortality in the Blessed Isle. Aragorn's side chose the doom of men and early death. But then, as a boon, they were given human-plus longevity.

You'd need a human subrace, Half-Elf Heritage, with superhuman longevity.

Ring of Barahir is an artifact with advantage to Diplomacy rolls with Elves and advantage to Intimidate evil Outsiders.

[TheYell]

There are two things which mark J R R Tolkien as the patron saint of DMs
.
One is the prophecy that no living man would kill the King of Angmar. He was killed by Eowyn, shieldmaiden of Rohan, with an assist by Meriadoc Brandybuck, a hobbit.

The other is Sauron going after Beren, a man prophesied to be defeated by the fiercest wolf in the world. So Sauron transformed himself into the fiercest statted wolf in the world, and went after Beren.

But he just had the FORM of the fiercest wolf in the world, so he was subdued by a talking dog belonging to Beren's gf.

Book says he transformed into a vampire bat and sulked for a bit.

[EvilAnagram]

what I am saying is that rules already support your view.

Yes, the rules for a Ranger.

Edit: Seriously, the only reason people have given for not wanting the Ranger class is that he doesn't use magic, but he uses magic. Magic that cures poisons and diseases. Magic derived from his deep connection to both the natural world and the divine. You know, like a ranger.


Had to pick something to represent him and I feel Human would fall short.
I disagree. He epitomizes the best of humanity in his willingness to build relationships with others and risk his own life for his friends. A variant human with the Skilled feat and a boon granting long life represents him best.


What would you consider the Ring of Barahir?
...a ring. It's a really nice ring. It doesn't grant anything magical. It's just a ring that is well known for belonging to the heir of Isildur. Not every ring is magic, yo. My titanium wedding band doesn't grant me resistance to heat and piercing damage. It's just a ring.


And I'm happy with Narsil being a great sword as its huge, but I'd certainly see no issue with it being down-graded to a long sword.
It is pretty big for a longsword in the films, but a great sword is basically a polearm.


But its totally a Holy Avenger regardless

I'll bite. Why?

[Angelalex242]

Yes, the rules for a Ranger.

Edit: Seriously, the only reason people have given for not wanting the Ranger class is that he doesn't use magic, but he uses magic. Magic that cures poisons and diseases. Magic derived from his deep connection to both the natural world and the divine. You know, like a ranger.


I disagree. He epitomizes the best of humanity in his willingness to build relationships with others and risk his own life for his friends. A variant human with the Skilled feat and a boon granting long life represents him best.


...a ring. It's a really nice ring. It doesn't grant anything magical. It's just a ring that is well known for belonging to the heir of Isildur. Not every ring is magic, yo. My titanium wedding band doesn't grant me resistance to heat and piercing damage. It's just a ring.


It is pretty big for a longsword in the films, but a great sword is basically a polearm.



I'll bite. Why?

It cuts a finger off a greater demon lord (Sauron). Very few things can do that. Also, it can affect the undead King of the faithless men.

[strangebloke]

It cuts a finger off a greater demon lord (Sauron). Very few things can do that. Also, it can affect the undead King of the faithless men.

Narsil has no paladin only restriction.
Narsil is it's own thing, not a jolly avenger
Sauron is his own thing.
Aragorn doesn't wield narsil. He wields Anduril, the flame of the West.

[Ding]

There are any number of ways you could class him with Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, and potentially Paladin subclasses, and honestly I can't/am too lazy to decide. Ranger with some Fighter seems to have the best flavor to me. The stats and feats he probably has are easier to choose. Here's my two cents:

Background: Outlander - Thematically, I just like that choice, and it matches his skills quite well.

Str: 16 (As mentioned earlier, strong, but not even strongest among the Fellowship)
Dex: 14-15
Con: 18 (I'd give him really high one here: his endurance is unparalleled and he can take a hit)
Int: 11-12 (He seems smarter than the average guy, but he's not a scholar or anything)
Wis: 16 (He's pretty wise in general, and does well with many Wis skills)
Cha: 15-16 (He's mild-mannered most of the time, but I would argue that does not equate to low Cha. He's a quiet but effective leader, and can be more bold with a stronger personality when need be)

Fighting Style: GWF - I've seen some debate over what qualifies as a greatsword, but Anduril is pretty massive and I would give it that designation any day of the week. He generally wields it with two hands, which would qualify for the style. I've heard the term bastard sword used, which is close enough for me. He swings that thing around with some considerable force.

Feats:
GWM for sure.
Inspiring Leader - If his speech outside the Black Gate isn't an abbreviated Inspiring Leader speech, then I don't know what is.
Healer - This one depends on how exactly you deal with the "does-he-have-spells" issue. Without spells, refluffed or otherwise, I would definitely give him credit for this. With spells, maybe even still?
Skilled - Kind of the same deal, but he's definitely a man of many talents. He got them somehow. His possession of the feat or lack thereof is more an explanation of his numerous skill proficiencies rather than a reflection anything meaningful about Aragorn as a character.
Mounted Combatant - This is something I haven't seen many people suggest, but I think there is a good case for it. He fights on horseback several times, and it's obviously impossible to tell if he has "advantage" on the orcs while doing so, but I'd give it to him. He seems even more dominant than on foot. Plus, his horses fare remarkably well for the most part, considering that they are in the thick of unimaginably large battles with projectiles flying everywhere, polearms in play, various beasts, etc. Seems to me suspiciously like his mounts have the Dex-save damage reduction and forced target-swapping from the feat.

Skills:
Athletics
Nature
Survival
Perception
Medicine
Animal Handling - He does well with horses in particular. Maybe I fixate on this talent of his a little too much, but I'm sticking with it :smalltongue:.

Some final notes: Anduril does seem like a holy avenger to me. It's some sort of magic weapon at the very least. Also, I personally support reflavoring spells to explain Aragorn's various superhuman feats of tracking, medicine, combat, and more. Some great examples have already been given. Middle Earth is a low-magic setting, so I think that's perfectly acceptable. He's certainly got enough mystique/elf-magic going on to make it a reasonable claim anyways. On that note, I would pick half-elf for a race, simply because it meshes best with his longevity and.... affinity for the elves. Otherwise he's just a human that has a bunch of not-quite-human traits, which would either be explained with magic items/blessings or some sort of off-human homebrew I suppose. Half-elf seems simpler.

Annnnnd just like that it's past 3 AM. Whoops. LotR and D&D combined pose a serious threat to my sleep schedule :smallwink:.

[EvilAnagram]

It cuts a finger off a greater demon lord (Sauron). Very few things can do that. Also, it can affect the undead King of the faithless men.

The undead king and the faithless men recognize Anduril because it is the sword of Isildur reforged. Aragorn calls them to their duty because the power of their oath compels them, and the sword is a symbol of that.

Also, a +1 sword can affect both demon lords and ghosts. There's no need to make it a Holy Avenger.

[Randomthom]

In previous rulesets Anduril would have probably been a Ghost-touched Bastard Sword. I'd be more inclined to resurrect the ghost touch & bane (outsiders) properties from 3e for it.

As for Aragorn & magic, yes he uses herbs but there is also a mystical element to it; "the hands of the king are the hands of a healer". There is more to it than just using the herb.

[EvilAnagram]

In previous rulesets Anduril would have probably been a Ghost-touched Bastard Sword. I'd be more inclined to resurrect the ghost touch & bane (outsiders) properties from 3e for it.

As for Aragorn & magic, yes he uses herbs but there is also a mystical element to it; "the hands of the king are the hands of a healer". There is more to it than just using the herb.
Exactly. Tolkien was a staunch royalist who drew on real-world myths about the divine appointment of kings. Aragorn's connection with nature is symbolic of his connection to the divine, and his power to heal comes from this connection. The herbs are a conduit for his innate power.

[Naanomi]

Even acknowledging it as ‘magic’ in some sense, I’m much more inclined to refluff the Healer Feat as that Royal Bloodline power than give him Vancian casting (even refluffed); the whole mechanism doesn’t fit Tolkien’s magic system at all

[strangebloke]

Even acknowledging it as ‘magic’ in some sense, I’m much more inclined to refluff the Healer Feat as that Royal Bloodline power than give him Vancian casting (even refluffed); the whole mechanism doesn’t fit Tolkien’s magic system at all

Fortunately, we have the lovely spell-less ranger variant, which, amongst other things, allows for the creation of magic poultices that can replicate certain healing effects.

[Hesh]

Kingsfoil was a healing herb. Aragorn wasn't magical in that regard, he simply used knowledge of Forgotten Lore to make Athelas/Kingsfoil. Luthien wasn't a king, and yet she was able to use it to heal Beren using Athelas too. It was a legend that the "Hands of the King are the Hands of a healer" because it was ancient lore of Numenor, not that simply being the King of Gondor gave you magical healing hands.

[EvilAnagram]

Even acknowledging it as ‘magic’ in some sense, I’m much more inclined to refluff the Healer Feat as that Royal Bloodline power than give him Vancian casting (even refluffed); the whole mechanism doesn’t fit Tolkien’s magic system at all

There are plenty of Ranger spells that do fit the magic we see Aragorn perform, with no refluffing required. Lesser Restoration and Protection from Poison, for example, work perfectly without refluffing so long as you use kingsfoil as the component. Cure Wounds is hardly a stretch, especially compared to the Healer feat, which does a much worse job of fitting the lore of Tolkien.

Vancian casting doesn't matter because 5e doesn't use Vancian magic.


Kingsfoil was a healing herb. Aragorn wasn't magical in that regard, he simply used knowledge of Forgotten Lore to make Athelas/Kingsfoil. Luthien wasn't a king, and yet she was able to use it to heal Beren using Athelas too. It was a legend that the "Hands of the King are the Hands of a healer" because it was ancient lore of Numenor, not that simply being the King of Gondor gave you magical healing hands.
See my above points about how Tolkien played with the idea of the divine link of royalty. Luthien was royalty. Hell she was semi-divine royalty.

And you're assuming that knowledge of healing arts is not magical because you live in a world of scientific knowledge. Tolkien did not care for scientific advancement, and his world was not a world of science. Magic suffuses the world of Middle Earth, though it is fading. The fading of magic is reflected in the way that most magic (including Aragorn's) is tied to the past (his bloodline and age) and notions of royalty (every human and elf we see performing magic is royal).

[nakajima]

It's like when people ask about building Conan. You know, Conan the Barbarian. Sure, they probably have some multiclassing and/or feats for some stuff (mostly relevant to plot or expanded content) but overall you'd think the class they are associated with would cover most of it.

Conan has always been a Fighter/Rogue. Gygax himself made him one in an issue of Dragon Magazine back in the 80's, if memory serves me right.

In the books, Conan is portrayed as an intelligent and conniving warrior, who uses more brain than brawn to get himself out of sticky situations. Hardly sounds like the archetypal barbarian, now does he?

It is worth mentioning that Schwarzenegger's portrayal of the Cimmerian differs from the source material quite a bit. The film Conan is quite clearly a barbarian.

[GlenSmash!]

Whew. Ok. How do we represent the most well traveled, best tracking, best fighting, and best Leader the race of Men has had in the Third age of Middle earth?

Right, first off book Aragorn or movie Aragorn? There some key differences.

Book Aragorn only uses one weapon throughout the trilogy (apart for waving some torches to scare away Nazgul) Anduril. Movie Aragron has another sword pre-Anduril and a short bow.

Book Aragorn, gets a Mail shirt, Helm and Shield from Edoras before going to Helm's Deep. Movie Aragorn obviously never uses a Shield. Wielding a shield with it makes Anduril a one handed or versatile weapon, in my opinion very much in at least 5e a Longsword.

Also, Mail shirts are the heaviest armor available in the Middle Earth setting. There was no plate. So how do we handle that? put him in a Mail shirt and remove higher AC armor options, or put him in plate and re-fluff it as Mail?

Book Aragorn has already accepted that as the Heir of Elendil he is Sauron's enemy, a leader of Men, and if Sauron is defeated, King of Arnor and Gondor. He has been a victorious Captain of Gondor under a different name.

Looking at background there are a lot of choices, Outlander, Inheritor, Sailor, Soldier, and Sage would all fit at various times in his career.

Looking at class, Aragorn is once again literally the best tracker in the race of men. Outside of men he doesn't have much competition outside of a few like the Sons of Elrond. If rangers are the best trackers in 5e, then it makes sense to make him at least in part a Ranger.

He also had mad skills with his Longsword. Killing dozens of uruks and men at Helms Deep. Fighter certainly could make sense here, but Hunter Ranger specializing in Hordes could work too. I don't see much justification for Smites, but I could be wrong.

Now as too his less fighty abilities, he heals using Athelas and water. Whether as Poultices, Potions, or Spells? I can see justifications going any of those three ways. He was able to wrest control a Palantir away from a fallen angel and decide what to show Sauron in it, if only for a brief time. I think that was a contested Charisma check. I think he does have a decent charisma score based on that and his ability to inspire others.

His ability to recall lore and legends, like those of Earendil or Beren and Luthien, seems to hint at a decent Int or a History Proficiency.

For stats, I don't think there is a need for straight 18s. In fact I see straight 14 with the Lucky feat as more correct, though I personally think 16's in Strength and Con are more fitting.

Lastly I wish I could award points to anybody who read through all that. :smallsmile:

[Luccan]

Well, wouldn't he be a ranger? It's where the original kit got its inspiration from, right? Probably a Hunter since Beastmaster seems more like Driz, the other famous ranger.

It's like when people ask about building Conan. You know, Conan the Barbarian. Sure, they probably have some multiclassing and/or feats for some stuff (mostly relevant to plot or expanded content) but overall you'd think the class they are associated with would cover most of it.

It's notable the Conan in the original stories wasn't much of a battle rager and didnt remotely fit the dumb brute stereotype.

Likewise, in ye olde d&d, Strider could have been a decently levelled ranger for the day and still not have spells yet. Rangers are still alike to their original form, but particularly in magic infused 5E, they have changed from just being "Aragorn". It's also notable you can get Ranger skills in 5E without actually being a Ranger. I'd stat him as a Rogue/Fighter, Expertise in Survival to represent being a good tracker.

[GlenSmash!]

Conan has always been a Fighter/Rogue. Gygax himself made him one in an issue of Dragon Magazine back in the 80's, if memory serves me right.

In the books, Conan is portrayed as an intelligent and conniving warrior, who uses more brain than brawn to get himself out of sticky situations. Hardly sounds like the archetypal barbarian, now does he?

It is worth mentioning that Schwarzenegger's portrayal of the Cimmerian differs from the source material quite a bit. The film Conan is quite clearly a barbarian.

Robert E. Howard's Conan absolutely uses brawn to get out of a lot of situations, and while previous editions thieves were fine to emulate some of his prowess the 5e Rogue does a poor job of it. Conan doesn't pick locks, primarily doesn't use finesse weapons, and doesn't speak Thieve's Cant.

Howards' Conan (and other heroes like Kull) are based on the premise that a Savage Man is better in Civilized society that a Civilized Man is in the Wild, and even better than a Civilized man in a Civilized society. He doesn't learn how to fight, he doesn't learn how to thieve, his background as a savage to be a better fighter that trained fighter and a better thief than a trained thief.

And who says a 5e Barbarian can't be cunning?

My very first 5e Barbarian was an Outlander who could speak read and write in 3 different languages right at level 1.

[GlenSmash!]

It's notable the Conan in the original stories wasn't much of a battle rager and didnt remotely fit the dumb brute stereotype.

He also has a strength and durability a Warrior form a Civilized land can never match. he might not froth at the mouth, but I can definitely think of times where I could easily use Rage and Reckless attack to describe his combats.

[nakajima]

Robert E. Howard's Conan absolutely uses brawn to get out of a lot of situations

I didn't say he didn't. I said he uses "more brain than brawn", to quote my previous post.

All in all, I do agree with you, at least for the most part. Barbarians should be portrayed as being actually intelligent more often than they are currently. Seeing the same old brutish barbarian with a whopping Intelligence score of three who is as well spoken as the Incredible Hulk does get boring. I'd definitely like to see more Wulfgar type barbarians in my games. I was just pointing out that the barbarian class might not be the most suitable if you're going for the whole Conan approach.

Also, thieves were the only ones capable of picking locks in 1st edition AD&D as well as the only ones who could speak the thieves' cant. Despite this Gygax still gave Conan twelve levels in the class. I think this renders your point about him not doing neither of those things somewhat moot.
I don't really understand about your point about finesse weapons, since you can use both strength and dexterity whilst attacking with one. If you're talking about the type of weapons they are, i.e. usually smaller and agile, you can just fluff them as being what ever type of weapon you want them to be. Within reason, of course.

Lastly, I would like to point out that you could easily make a constitution/strength rogue in 5th edition without any major problems. Sure, he won't be as hardy as a barbarian or a fighter, but he can definitely hold his own if excrement decides to hit the cooling apparatus.

[GlenSmash!]

I didn't say he didn't. I said he uses "more brain than brawn", to quote my previous post.

All in all, I do agree with you, at least for the most part. Barbarians should be portrayed as being actually intelligent more often than they are currently. Seeing the same old brutish barbarian with a whopping Intelligence score of three who is as well spoken as the Incredible Hulk does get boring. I'd definitely like to see more Wulfgar type barbarians in my games. I was just pointing out that the barbarian class might not be the most suitable if you're going for the whole Conan approach.

Also, thieves were the only ones capable of picking locks in 1st edition AD&D as well as the only ones who could speak the thieves' cant. Despite this Gygax still gave Conan twelve levels in the class. I think this renders your point about him not doing neither of those things somewhat moot.
I don't really understand about your point about finesse weapons, since you can use both strength and dexterity whilst attacking with one. If you're talking about the type of weapons they are, i.e. usually smaller and agile, you can just fluff them as being what ever type of weapon you want them to be. Within reason, of course.

Lastly, I would like to point out that you could easily make a constitution/strength rogue in 5th edition without any major problems. Sure, he won't be as hardy as a barbarian or a fighter, but he can definitely hold his own if excrement decides to hit the cooling apparatus.

The problem is REH's Conan primarily fights with a sword that can be wielded in both hands, which means it wouldn't have finesse, which means it wouldn't get Sneak Attack which is the 5e rogues way of staying competitive with damage. This was my point about finesse.

A Strength Rogue using a Rapier is fine, but using a Longsword falls behind in damage by a lot. Getting one attack on your turn for measly damage doesn't scream Conan to me.

[Zonugal]

I recognize that our discussion of Conan the Barbarian is a bit off-topic in this Aragorn-focused thread, but couldn't he just be represented as a V.Human 'Totem Warrior' Barbarian 6/'Scout' Rogue 4?

[nakajima]

The problem is REH's Conan primarily fights with a sword that can be wielded in both hands, which means it wouldn't have finesse, which means it wouldn't get Sneak Attack which is the 5e rogues way of staying competitive with damage. This was my point about finesse.

A Strength Rogue using a Rapier is fine, but using a Longsword falls behind in damage by a lot. Getting one attack on your turn for measly damage doesn't scream Conan to me.

Good point. In conclusion, I'd say that fighter would be the most optimal class for Conan in 5th edition, as it is the most malleable.

Also, we should probably stop talking about Conan in thread about Aragorn. Just a thought. :smallwink:

[EvilAnagram]

You know, you don't usually see crossovers of the most popular, "How do you build X," character threads, but here we have Aragorn and Conan, the two Ur examples of this argument.

[GlenSmash!]

I recognize that our discussion of Conan the Barbarian is a bit off-topic in this Aragorn-focused thread, but couldn't he just be represented as a V.Human 'Totem Warrior' Barbarian 6/'Scout' Rogue 4?

You certainly could, but I would ask is what is essential about those 4 levels of Rogue to Conan that's worth the overhead of things that don't represent anything his character did like Thieve's tools proficiency and Thieve's Cant, or things that won't see use like Sneak Attack on a guy using a broadsword.


Good point. In conclusion, I'd say that fighter would be the most optimal class for Conan in 5th edition, as it is the most malleable.

The UA Scout Fighter was about as close a Conan as I think I have ever seen in 5e. I'd still want 2 levels in Barb to represent Conan going "Full savage".


Also, we should probably stop talking about Conan in thread about Aragorn. Just a thought. :smallwink:

Agreed.

[Scots Dragon]

You know, you don't usually see crossovers of the most popular, "How do you build X," character threads, but here we have Aragorn and Conan, the two Ur examples of this argument.

Having people talkinga bout a wilderness warrior from the north who travelled for a time and became a seasoned warrior before settling and becoming king of a more prosperous and civilised southern nation attract discussion of the other wilderness warrior from the north who travelled for a time and become a seasoned warrior before settling and becoming king of a more prosperous and civilised southern nation seems entirely reasonable to me.

[Hesh]

See my above points about how Tolkien played with the idea of the divine link of royalty. Luthien was royalty. Hell she was semi-divine royalty.

And you're assuming that knowledge of healing arts is not magical because you live in a world of scientific knowledge. Tolkien did not care for scientific advancement, and his world was not a world of science. Magic suffuses the world of Middle Earth, though it is fading. The fading of magic is reflected in the way that most magic (including Aragorn's) is tied to the past (his bloodline and age) and notions of royalty (every human and elf we see performing magic is royal).

Please don't tell me I'm assuming something, you have no insight into my mind, so do not presume to tell me so.

It was knowledge from Numenor. Knowledge, not magic. Numenoreans knew of it; and Numenorenas were not magical. Elves knew of it.

Elves knew of it. Glorfindel was reincarnated by the Valar, and one of the most royal and powerful beings in existence; and yet it took the magic of his direct superior, Elrond to save Frodo after Weathertop and seeing to his wounds and realising that it was beyond his skill or ability.

Glorfindel is more royal and powerful than Aragorn. He is reincarnated directly by the Valar.

Kingsfoil isn't magical. Aragorn doesn't have any special skill with it other than forgotten lore.

I've never understood the insistence that the King of Gondor had magical powers. Was Aragorn not able to heal with it until Arathorn died? What about his sons? The saying 'Hands of the King are the hands of a healer' as a legend suggests more to the knowledge of Numenor, but also to how a King should act. A king heals, and doesn't injure.

Considering the other moralities present in JRRT's writing, this is by far the most likely, mkre than super magical powers that only appear in the current rightful king of Gondor.

[GlenSmash!]

Please don't tell me I'm assuming something, you have no insight into my mind, so do not presume to tell me so.

It was knowledge from Numenor. Knowledge, not magic. Numenoreans knew of it; and Numenorenas were not magical. Elves knew of it.

Elves knew of it. Glorfindel was reincarnated by the Valar, and one of the most royal and powerful beings in existence; and yet it took the magic of his direct superior, Elrond to save Frodo after Weathertop and seeing to his wounds and realising that it was beyond his skill or ability.

Glorfindel is more royal and powerful than Aragorn. He is reincarnated directly by the Valar.

Kingsfoil isn't magical. Aragorn doesn't have any special skill with it other than forgotten lore.

I've never understood the insistence that the King of Gondor had magical powers. Was Aragorn not able to heal with it until Arathorn died? What about his sons? The saying 'Hands of the King are the hands of a healer' as a legend suggests more to the knowledge of Numenor, but also to how a King should act. A king heals, and doesn't injure.

Considering the other moralities present in JRRT's writing, this is by far the most likely, mkre than super magical powers that only appear in the current rightful king of Gondor.

I think Numenoreans were partly magical. They had extended lifepans compared to their Edain ancestors and kin still in middle earth. Being in closer proximity to Aman and in trade with the Eldar there, and or just a boon from the Valar seems to have had some impact on them beyond just knowledge. Though indeed their craft and skill was greater as well.

As far as Glorfindel goes he was certainly a Calaquendi which in and of itself seems to give great power, but I know of nothing that says he was of the Noldorin royal line or that he had any implicit healing ability. Luthien does seem to have some specific healing ability in drawing out poison from Beren's veins. She may or may not have imparted this "Magic" to her line.

I do agree that "The hands of a King are the hands of a Healer" doesn't necessarily make Aragorn's healing abilities magical. Those words seem to me to just be a hint of prophecy that signifies the Heir of Elendil coming into his own.

Edit: I wanted to add that I don't think "The hands of a King are the hands of a Healer" being a saying in Gondor in the latter 3rd age implies that all royalty everywhere is or should be healers. I don't think Feanor could heal for crap, for instance. Fingolfin might not be able to either, but Finrod probably could.

[EvilAnagram]

Having people talkinga bout a wilderness warrior from the north who travelled for a time and became a seasoned warrior before settling and becoming king of a more prosperous and civilised southern nation attract discussion of the other wilderness warrior from the north who travelled for a time and become a seasoned warrior before settling and becoming king of a more prosperous and civilised southern nation seems entirely reasonable to me.

My hat to you!


Please don't tell me I'm assuming something, you have no insight into my mind, so do not presume to tell me so.
If you're going to get testy at the slightest unintentional provocation, you should probably recognjze that as a good opportunity to step away from the argument for a bit. Otherwise, you might start saying something like, "People who read my words have no idea what I'm thinking!"


It was knowledge from Numenor. Knowledge, not magic. Numenoreans knew of it; and Numenorenas were not magical. Elves knew of it.
The assertion that the people of Numenor were not magical betrays a lack of understanding of how magic works in Middle Earth. The people of Numenor could live hundreds of years and did not age before dying. They simply accepted their time had come and died. Aging and sickness came with the waning of men's faith, and as magic slowly left the world.

Magic suffused everything in the first age and much in the second. By the third age, magic was left only in that which had strong ties to ages past, often that which was tied to royal lineages because Tolkien was a true royalist. Such things can be grand, like the blade of an elven king, long lost. Of minor, like a small flower that once grew in the kingdom of Thingol, mightiest of the Eldar and father of kings both elf and man.



Kingsfoil isn't magical. Aragorn doesn't have any special skill with it other than forgotten lore.
Nothing you've said in any way supports this assertion. None of the Glorfindel business, nor any of your statements like, "Elfs knew of it." This is not an argument, but a series of axioms.


I've never understood the insistence that the King of Gondor had magical powers. Was Aragorn not able to heal with it until Arathorn died? What about his sons? The saying 'Hands of the King are the hands of a healer' as a legend suggests more to the knowledge of Numenor, but also to how a King should act. A king heals, and doesn't injure.
The notion that kings have healing hands comes from Medieval Europe, and Tolkien used it as one of several tools to illustrate the ideal king. Thinking about it mechanically as you propose would strike him as nonsensical, as his world did not operate in mechanical ways. He, in fact, disliked mechanical minds and made that clear in his writings.

To him, magic was subtle and intertwined with nature. He used the healing ability of Aragorn to illustrate that a true king was connected to divinity, which he believed in reality. The flower symbolized that divinity is both humble and deeply rooted in the natural world. The hands provide healing to echo the real-world belief. It takes modern minds disconnected from our heritage to miss it.

[Hesh]

Noone is testy. Please do not presume as such. Please stop presuming when you are wrong, and continue to be told you are wrong.

No testiness involved, other than a simple request to ask you to stop presuming something.

Hence the 'please'.

So, please stop presuming. You are bad at it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Noone is testy. Please do not presume as such. Please stop presuming when you are wrong, and continue to be told you are wrong. No testiness involved, other than a simple request to ask you to stop presuming something. Hence the 'please'. So, please stop presuming. You are bad at it.
The sword Aragorn wielded, Anduril, Flame of the West, was the reforged Narsil which was forged by human hands. Numenorians were able to forge magical things.
The blade Merry wielded versus the Witch King was magic, forged by human hands in the North to fight the witch king: magic.
The cloak Aragorn wore: magic (elves).
The oath at the Stone of Erech: magic, and it got him an army. That oath was levied by Isildur, a Numenorian royal in the second age: serious freakin' magic that lasted for nearly three millenia.

All of this from the books. I am quite familiar with the lore of the books, the Silmarillion, and Tolkien's background as a writer. Your arguments are, quite frankly, poor but not utterly without basis since you are trying to match up MiddleEarthian magic with D&D Vancian/Swords and Sorcery magic. It's a difficult fit.

Even elven magic is subtle in Middle Earth, and the elves were powerful in magic (see the Rings of Power) but also see the elven rope discussion in the books as the Fellowship leaves Lothlorien. And lembas.

The magic of Aragorn's healing is of that subtle, middle earthian kind, not the D&D kind which is a bit more loud and brash. Over 40 years ago, there was a Dragon article arguing that in D&D Gandalf was never better than a 5th level magic user. Granted, this was before Silmarillion was published. In 5e, Gandalf is a character who is, by his history, something along the lines of a Solar or Planetar (a Maia) which is a powerful angelic being. But Middle Earth magic and power is a very different thing.

Evil Anagram is right about the whole romantic/royalist influences on Tolkien's creative muse. The healing of Faramir could only be done by the King, who called him back from death's door from a magical, evil wound by a magical evil Morgul dart. In Minas Tirith. (Return of the King). Aragorn may not have been as powerful in magic as his Numenorian ancestors like Isildur -- a few millennia may weaken any line -- but the internal magic, provided by the author, of Middle Earth was in him via both prophecy and bloodline. The lore of the woman in the houses of healing reaches back to the kind of lore that allowed Aragorn to find the seedling of the white tree.

I was going to stat out Aragorn but 5e does a crap job of handling a character like him, since he's to me a mix of Paladin of the Ancients and Ranger (Hunter).

PS: I am pretty sure that the Original D&D Paladin lay on hands skill comes from the legends of Sir Lancelot, Mallory's Arthurian stories, and the episode where Lancelot heals an opponent killed at a joust by laying on his hands. This is part of what takes Guinevere's breath away, since in that cycle Lancelot is not portrayed as handsome, but rather knightly and chivalrous(until he beds the queen and has his fall from grace). I read that story over 40 years ago, and IIRC it was in a Hamilton's Arthurian Legends that I read after Hamilton's Mythology.

[GlenSmash!]

The sword Aragorn wielded, Anduril, Flame of the West, was the reforged Narsil which was forged by human hands.


Nitpick. Narsil was forged by Telchar of Nogrod. A Dwarf Weaponsmith. The greatest of them. And reforged into Anduril by Elven smiths (Presumably Noldor) at Rivendell.

But...

Numenorians were able to forge magical things.
This is absolutely true, as you point out in your example of Merry and the Wtich-King.

[Angelalex242]

Nitpick. Narsil was forged by Telchar of Nogrod. A Dwarf Weaponsmith. The greatest of them. And reforged into Anduril by Elven smiths (Presumably Noldor) at Rivendell.

But...

This is absolutely true, as you point out in your example of Merry and the Wtich-King.

Anduril/Narsil is basically the Excalibur of Tolkien's World. Hence why I say it's a Holy Avenger (just like Arthurian Excalibur would be.). It might also be a straight up artifact, that works too.

[EvilAnagram]

Anduril/Narsil is basically the Excalibur of Tolkien's World. Hence why I say it's a Holy Avenger (just like Arthurian Excalibur would be.). It might also be a straight up artifact, that works too.

I understand where you're coming from there, but the simple fact is that at no point does Anduril show itself to have any properties that relate to the Holy Avenger. If you really want to make it more powerful, giving it an aura that gives advantage against the frightened condition makes sense.

[Naanomi]

Of course, Excalibur itself doesn’t often have magical powers in Arthurian legend at all (the scabbard gets them more often than the sword itself) but serves rather primarily as a symbol

[strangebloke]

I really don't see the rationale for why he needs to be anything other than a spelless hunter.

He tracks, hides, takes on large groups of orcs at once, specializes in killing orcs, heals people with magic herbalism, wears medium armor and has WIS as his best mental stat. Those are all ranger things.

Fighter is what you go for when nothing else really jives. Since ranger does jive, why would you stat him this way?

Paladin is the one that really confuses me. Paladins smite! Paladins typically wear either heavy armor or light. Paladin healing is very overtly magical and is nothing like the stuff Aragorn does, unless you refluff it as him 'restoring their will to fight' or something like that. Paladins are CHA focused, and while he does alright in that regard, his whole character arc is about him coming to terms with his own leadership. In the books he less unwilling to lead than he was in the movies, but still, he approaches the throne with decent trepidation.

[GlenSmash!]

I really don't see the rationale for why he needs to be anything other than a spelless hunter.

He tracks, hides, takes on large groups of orcs at once, specializes in killing orcs, heals people with magic herbalism, wears medium armor and has WIS as his best mental stat. Those are all ranger things.

Fighter is what you go for when nothing else really jives. Since ranger does jive, why would you stat him this way?

Paladin is the one that really confuses me. Paladins smite! Paladins typically wear either heavy armor or light. Paladin healing is very overtly magical and is nothing like the stuff Aragorn does, unless you refluff it as him 'restoring their will to fight' or something like that. Paladins are CHA focused, and while he does alright in that regard, his whole character arc is about him coming to terms with his own leadership. In the books he less unwilling to lead than he was in the movies, but still, he approaches the throne with decent trepidation.

I would say Book Aragorn approaches the Throne with reverence rather than trepidation.

He doesn't want to enter the city, or in any way assert himself as the King until Sauron is defeated, but It's been his plan since at least when Narsil was reforged before the fellowship set out from Rivendell, and likely some time before that.

[GreyBlack]

There's an ancient article outlining how, in 3.5, Aragorn is best modeled by a level 5-6 character based on how that system operates, with them saying around Ranger 2/Paladin 3.

Given this information, I'm going to sayb that Aragorn is around level 6; 1 Ranger/1 Paladin/4 Fighter (Battlemaster). He demonstrates no magical abilities per se, but some of his abilities (using athelas, for example) can be mirrored using the abilities in this build.

[SARCASM] Or, because this is 5e and not 3.5, he's probably around level 20 given some of the ridiculousness that 3.5 was capable of. [./SARCASM]

[GlenSmash!]

Anduril/Narsil is basically the Excalibur of Tolkien's World. Hence why I say it's a Holy Avenger (just like Arthurian Excalibur would be.). It might also be a straight up artifact, that works too.

I don't know of Anduril or Excalibur (in any of the Arthur books I've read) doing extra damage to Fiends or Undead, or adding extra protection against spells and magical effects.

[EvilAnagram]

I don't know of Anduril or Excalibur (in any of the Arthur books I've read) doing extra damage to Fiends or Undead, or adding extra protection against spells and magical effects.

You don't remember when the possessed King of Rohan raises his hand and mutters in the Black Speech before Aragorn says, "Lol, advantage, yo!" It's right before orcs fall and everyone dies.

[Angelalex242]

You don't remember when the possessed King of Rohan raises his hand and mutters in the Black Speech before Aragorn says, "Lol, advantage, yo!" It's right before orcs fall and everyone dies.

What I do remember happening is that sword cutting the one ring from Sauron's hand. That's at least Sword of Sharpness, maybe even Vorpal Sword.

(Or both. Sauron has legendary actions, so his head sure as hell isn't getting chopped off)

[strangebloke]

I would say Book Aragorn approaches the Throne with reverence rather than trepidation.

He doesn't want to enter the city, or in any way assert himself as the King until Sauron is defeated, but It's been his plan since at least when Narsil was reforged before the fellowship set out from Rivendell, and likely some time before that.

Sure, but my point is that he's not really a take-charge kind of guy by nature. He is a very gifted leader, but I've always read him as more of a wise, careful leader than one who inspires and brings people together.

More to the point, if you're trying to build a character that plays like Aragorn, you won't miss most of the benefits of high charisma. Aragorn doesn't deceive, persuade, or intimidate people all that often. He does track, (Wisdom:Survival) make judgments about whether to trust someone or not (Wisdom:Insight) and scouts ahead. (Wisdom:Perception)

[strangebloke]

What I do remember happening is that sword cutting the one ring from Sauron's hand. That's at least Sword of Sharpness, maybe even Vorpal Sword.

(Or both. Sauron has legendary actions, so his head sure as hell isn't getting chopped off)

It's magical for sure.

Why in the blazes do you think it has to be a specific, DMG sword just because it did something to an entity that is not statted in 5e?

[EvilAnagram]

What I do remember happening is that sword cutting the one ring from Sauron's hand. That's at least Sword of Sharpness, maybe even Vorpal Sword.

(Or both. Sauron has legendary actions, so his head sure as hell isn't getting chopped off)
It's a nice, vaguely magical sword. I don't see why you want to ball it up with one or another 5e sword. It's its own thing.

[GlenSmash!]

Sure, but my point is that he's not really a take-charge kind of guy by nature. He is a very gifted leader, but I've always read him as more of a wise, careful leader than one who inspires and brings people together.

More to the point, if you're trying to build a character that plays like Aragorn, you won't miss most of the benefits of high charisma. Aragorn doesn't deceive, persuade, or intimidate people all that often. He does track, (Wisdom:Survival) make judgments about whether to trust someone or not (Wisdom:Insight) and scouts ahead. (Wisdom:Perception)

Ah yes. He doesn't persuade people to follow him as much as lead by example, and by making wise choices.

To draw a parallel I wouldn't categorize him as a Charismatic (real world definition rather than just game score) commander like Napoleon, but rather a more aloof one like Wellington.

[Angelalex242]

It's a nice, vaguely magical sword. I don't see why you want to ball it up with one or another 5e sword. It's its own thing.

I think you guys are kinda disrespecting the sword. I'm trying to make sure it has some neat powers fitting of 'best sword in the books.'

[Naanomi]

I think you guys are kinda disrespecting the sword. I'm trying to make sure it has some neat powers fitting of 'best sword in the books.'
“Best sword in an extremely low/subtle magic setting” can easily have simple enchantments or be just important for its symbolic value with no enchantment at all

[TheYell]

Well again, Tolkien doesn't blend with D&D that well. Especially not D&D culture.

Ranger: I want to start with a magic sword.
DM: No, but you start with hereditary rights to a broken sword and a 10,000 year old ring.
Ranger: What? Wait, the rights?
DM: They're far too valuable to carry. Elves hold them in secrecy for you.
Ranger: I've heard this is your answer to WBL, you know. You got a rep.

DM: Okay, the guard says you can see the King, but you must leave your weapons on the porch.
Ranger: Eff That. I wait outside.
Dwarf: Me too.
Elf: Me three.
DM: The wizard whispers, "It's OK, I'll have my staff."
Ranger: OK, you wouldn't let me have the sword reforged until level 5, it was too valuable to carry around, and now I gotta leave it on the porch? And what's with the wizard keeping his staff? Are the guards retarded? Or is it like when you gave an arcane caster a divine miracle regeneration for free?
DM: He's a demigod of sorts. He just looks like an old man. He's really the same sort as Sauron.
Ranger: So Sauron will regenerate?
DM: Not if you destroy the Ring.
Ranger: Which is now with the lost Halfling. Good God Almighty, we're going back after him.
DM: The Wizard whispers--
Ranger: Whatever.

[Angelalex242]

To be fair, that's why LOTR has its own gaming system, called The One Ring. I highly recommend it, actually, it's a fun system. I've played it.

[GlenSmash!]

To be fair, that's why LOTR has its own gaming system, called The One Ring. I highly recommend it, actually, it's a fun system. I've played it.

Adventures in Middle-Earth is great too.

[strangebloke]

I think you guys are kinda disrespecting the sword. I'm trying to make sure it has some neat powers fitting of 'best sword in the books.'


“Best sword in an extremely low/subtle magic setting” can easily have simple enchantments or be just important for its symbolic value with no enchantment at all

Alternately, it could be a +5 flametongue. Make it special, that's fine. There's just no reason for it to specifically be a holy avenger (and to require Aragorn to have paladin levels as a result.) Tolkein wasn't big into statting out the magic items, for some reason.

[GlenSmash!]

Alternately, it could be a +5 flametongue. Make it special, that's fine. There's just no reason for it to specifically be a holy avenger (and to require Aragorn to have paladin levels as a result.) Tolkein wasn't big into statting out the magic items, for some reason.

I think we should just look at what it does and stat it out. From the lotr wiki:


After the Council of Elrond, the Elves of Rivendell reforged Narsil into a new sword, which Aragorn named Andúril. He carried it throughout the journey. In Lothlórien, Galadriel and Celeborn gifted Aragorn a sheath for Andúril. It was made by the Galadhrim, and was overlaid with a tracery of flowers and leaves and elven runes spelling out the name of the sword and its lineage. There was an enchantment upon the scabbard so that the blade that was drawn from it would not be stained or broken, even in defeat.

In Rohan, Aragorn used it as evidence of his heritage when he, Legolas, and Gimli first meet Éomer. He reluctantly sets it aside before meeting Théoden, telling Háma that death will come to any man except himself who drew it from its scabbard.

Given the Scabbard's enchantment I don't think a Sword of Sharpness is too far off the mark. Given it's a first age relic of exceptional lineage +3 seems appropriate to me, and given it's proof of Arargorn's heritage, advantage on Persuasion Checks on non-evil humanoids, and perhaps intimidation checks against evil ones, seems appropriate to me.

[Tvtyrant]

Numenor was famous for its magic, ships that don't need sails, indestructible walls made of single pieces (Orthanc and minas morgul), weapons that can kill the undead, etc.

[blueb4sunrise1]

So, I am old school. Haven't played d&d in over 20 years (just getting back inyo it with the kids using 5e).
Now, I seem to remember that the "ranger" was a subclass of fighter and was created specifically to accommodate Aragorn style characters.
The concept works quite well in theory but trying to faithfully reflect the complexity of Tolkiens characters within the limited rule set of a fairly simple role play game is always going to be problematic.
I seem to remember we tried to create a version of Aragorn back in the day. We thought it worked best by creating "Dunedan" as a subclass of human to account for his skills which are not reflected as human or ranger. I think we all agreed that his Prime stat was constitution and also scored well in dexterity and wisdom.
We got the idea of creating Dunadan subrace from a different game we had; Middle Earth Role Play (MERP).
How all this works into 5e I don't really know, but surely the ruels can be a little fluid to accommodate specific cases or unusual situations.
Aragorn my have started out as a Paladin or basic fighter class before going into exile where upon he begins to develp his ranger skills herb lore etc, then on account of his time with the elves he learns a little magic etc.
Perhaps he could be awarded multiple "backgrounds" on account of his age and life experience to add missing skills to his race or class skill set or something.

Just my 2 pennies for the melting pot.

[GreyBlack]

So, I am old school. Haven't played d&d in over 20 years (just getting back inyo it with the kids using 5e).
Now, I seem to remember that the "ranger" was a subclass of fighter and was created specifically to accommodate Aragorn style characters.
The concept works quite well in theory but trying to faithfully reflect the complexity of Tolkiens characters within the limited rule set of a fairly simple role play game is always going to be problematic.
I seem to remember we tried to create a version of Aragorn back in the day. We thought it worked best by creating "Dunedan" as a subclass of human to account for his skills which are not reflected as human or ranger. I think we all agreed that his Prime stat was constitution and also scored well in dexterity and wisdom.
We got the idea of creating Dunadan subrace from a different game we had; Middle Earth Role Play (MERP).
How all this works into 5e I don't really know, but surely the ruels can be a little fluid to accommodate specific cases or unusual situations.
Aragorn my have started out as a Paladin or basic fighter class before going into exile where upon he begins to develp his ranger skills herb lore etc, then on account of his time with the elves he learns a little magic etc.
Perhaps he could be awarded multiple "backgrounds" on account of his age and life experience to add missing skills to his race or class skill set or something.

Just my 2 pennies for the melting pot.

Yeah, in older editions (notably 2e), Aragorn would likely have started as a Fighter before dual classing into Ranger after many adventures. I'm thinking that he might have, in 2e, gone something like Fighter 4 -> Ranger 5 -> Paladin 5 solely because of how the dual classing rules worked.

Sadly (or perhaps fortunately, your mileage may vary), that is no longer how the game works. The nonlinear progression model has been done away with by the game since 3e, for better or worse, so now it's more about a leveling progression than a character arc.

[krunchyfrogg]

Thank you everybody. Great posts here.

[EvilAnagram]

I was thinking about this today, and I wanted to give it a shot.

Aragorn - Variant Human Outlander
Level 6 Hunter Ranger
HP: 52
AC: 16 (18 with shield)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/8c/a8/cc8ca88bfe24f8f9d5e0d29f2dfdffbc.jpg
Pictured using the force of his will to control a mystical artifact. You know, magic.

Ability Scores (Point Buy)
Str 13+1
Dex 14
Con 13+1 (Resilient)
Int 10
Wis 13+1
Cha 11

Skills
Athletics (Outlander)
Medicine (Prodigy)
Nature
Perception
Persuasion (V. Human)
Stealth
Survival (Outlander)

Features
Resilient (Constitution)
Natural Explorer (Forest, Grassland)
Favored Enemy (Orcs, Goblins, Undead)
Fighting Style (Defense)
Hunter (Colossus Slayer)
Prodigy (Medicine, Survival Expertise, Goblin language, Herbalism Kit)

Languages
Common
Elvish
Black Speech (Both Orcish, Goblin variants)
Númenórean (from Undead - Ring Wraiths)

Spells
Detect Poison and Disease
Hunter's Mark
Lesser Restoration
Protection from Poison

Equipment
Andúril: +1 Longsword
Dagger x2
Longbow, 20 Arrows
Chain Shirt
Shield
Hunting Trap
Ring of Barahir
Cloak of Elvenkind
Set of traveler's clothes
Herbalism Kit

I picked Resilient because he can run for literally days, I took Prodigy because that's the "I'm a protagonist!" feat, and it rounds out his skills and languages. I picked Undead as a favored enemy because it fits the Nazgûl. The spells all emulate the magical/divine abilities he had in the books. Except Hunter's Mark, that just makes him better at ranging.

His skills all represent qualities he had in the books, his Survival checks are off the charts. The only thing I would maybe change is making one of his favored enemies hobbits because he did a damn fine job of keeping tabs on Merry and Pippin in the aftermath of the orcs getting trounced by the Rohirrim.

I left out the Outlander musical instrument proficiency because it's unnecessary.


Aragorn - Variant Human Outlander
Level 1 Ranger / Level 5 Fighter
HP: 52
AC: 16 (18 with shield)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WYByA1IHLSM/hqdefault.jpg
Pictured using the force of his will to control a mystical artifact. You know, magic.

Ability Scores (Point Buy)
Str 13+1
Dex 14
Con 13+1 (Resilient)
Int 10
Wis 13+1
Cha 11

Skills
Athletics (Outlander)
Medicine (Prodigy)
Nature
Perception
Persuasion (V. Human)
Stealth
Survival (Outlander)

Features
Resilient (Constitution)
Natural Explorer (Forest)
Favored Enemy (Orcs, Goblins)
Fighting Style (Defense)
Action Surge
Second Wind
Battle Master (Disarming Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Parry)
Prodigy (Medicine, Survival Expertise, Númenórean language, Herbalism Kit)

Languages
Common
Elvish
Black Speech (Orcish)
Númenórean


Equipment
Andúril: +1 Longsword
Dagger x2
Longbow, 20 Arrows
Chain Shirt
Shield

Hunting Trap
Ring of Barahir
Cloak of Elvenkind
Set of traveler's clothes
Herbalism Kit

This is for those of you who think he should be spell-less even though he has supernatural abilities. For some reason? I guess he falls more in line with movie Aragorn. I left out the Battle Master Artisan Tool proficiency and Outlander musical instrument proficiency because they're unnecessary.


Yes, the men of Númenor spoke Adûnaic. No one cares.