Ancestral Relic.... how to use and what are the rules?

[Uskardx42]

Hello all,

I have been looking at the entry for the Ancestral Relic feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds but I do not understand how it works.
There are no rules listed. No lists of abilities one can choose from. And the description provided in BoED is exceedingly vague.

Is it simply that if you pay the gp cost you can "upgrade" the item without having to have a specific feat or paying an even grater amount of gold to have an NPC upgrade it?

Any insight would be most welcome.

Thank you.

Uskardx42

[Epic Legand]

My take on it is that it has a double feature. 1) The one feat allows you to skip all the prerequisite feats you would normally need, but apicable only to this one item and 2) When you acquire wealth in game, you frequently sell it off at 1/2 value, with this feat, you "sacrifice" your acquired wealth at full value, thus gaining a huge benefit.

Others on the board feel that it offers another perk, that each time you add to its ability's, you can change all of them. I feel that's an incorrect interpretation, that the proper one is simple, If you start with a +1 keen longsword, that you can add a feature, like flaming, for the difference in cost between the 2. So a sword valued at 8,000 goes to 18,000, you are adding 10,000 in value. I hope this helps.

[Uskardx42]

My take on it is that it has a double feature. 1) The one feat allows you to skip all the prerequisite feats you would normally need, but apicable only to this one item and 2) When you acquire wealth in game, you frequently sell it off at 1/2 value, with this feat, you "sacrifice" your acquired wealth at full value, thus gaining a huge benefit.

Others on the board feel that it offers another perk, that each time you add to its ability's, you can change all of them. I feel that's an incorrect interpretation, that the proper one is simple, If you start with a +1 keen longsword, that you can add a feature, like flaming, for the difference in cost between the 2. So a sword valued at 8,000 goes to 18,000, you are adding 10,000 in value. I hope this helps.

Cool.
Thank you for the insight.

So does that mean that "any" ability could be placed on the item as long as the gp cost was being paid?
And that the total value of the item does not exceed the amounts listed in table 4-2 on page 41 of Book of Exalted Deeds?

[Falontani]

Cool.
Thank you for the insight.

So does that mean that "any" ability could be placed on the item as long as the gp cost was being paid?
And that the total value of the item does not exceed the amounts listed in table 4-2 on page 41 of Book of Exalted Deeds?

If you choose a weapon you can enchant it as both a weapon and a wondrous item. If you choose an armor you can enchant it as both an armor and a wondrous item, if it happens to be spiked you can also enchant it as a weapon. A Shield can be enchanted as a shield, a weapon, and a wondrous item. A ring can be enchanted as a ring and a wondrous item.

You must donate money (in the form of coin, equipment, art, etc) in order to enchant your item. By RAW you can change the enchantments each time you donate at least 1 copper, as long as you have not donated your maximum amount for your relic. This is rather OP as you could have a Staff as your Ancestral Relic and then be able to up the charges every time you donate 1 CP. Thus read as RAI you should only be able to enchant it and boost what enchantments are on it like other magical items.

A key note is that the Ancestral Relic does not count as magical in any one else' possession, and is worth only a masterwork item of it's sort. Iirc it is also exempt from the Vow of Poverty's no item worth more than X clause as long as it is not magical before donations.

Item Creation feats that reduce price does not work for the Ancestral Relic, so while you get full item value in your donations, a dedicated enchanter will come out ahead.

[Uskardx42]

If you choose a weapon you can enchant it as both a weapon and a wondrous item. If you choose an armor you can enchant it as both an armor and a wondrous item, if it happens to be spiked you can also enchant it as a weapon. A Shield can be enchanted as a shield, a weapon, and a wondrous item. A ring can be enchanted as a ring and a wondrous item.

You must donate money (in the form of coin, equipment, art, etc) in order to enchant your item. By RAW you can change the enchantments each time you donate at least 1 copper, as long as you have not donated your maximum amount for your relic. This is rather OP as you could have a Staff as your Ancestral Relic and then be able to up the charges every time you donate 1 CP. Thus read as RAI you should only be able to enchant it and boost what enchantments are on it like other magical items.

A key note is that the Ancestral Relic does not count as magical in any one else' possession, and is worth only a masterwork item of it's sort. Iirc it is also exempt from the Vow of Poverty's no item worth more than X clause as long as it is not magical before donations.

Item Creation feats that reduce price does not work for the Ancestral Relic, so while you get full item value in your donations, a dedicated enchanter will come out ahead.

Thank you for the great primer on how to utilize this feat and how the rules apply to the selected item.

I have to admit, I am very new with using online forums to ask questions about D&D and so I am not sure I understand what RAW and RAI mean.
I have a guess that RAW is "rules as written" and RAI is "rules as interpreted" but I could be WAY off on that.

I have been trying to research, balance, and decide between Ancestral Relic, Item Familiar, or Weapon of Legacy ( or a combo of 2 or all 3)
LOL

[Falontani]

Thank you for the great primer on how to utilize this feat and how the rules apply to the selected item.

I have to admit, I am very new with using online forums to ask questions about D&D and so I am not sure I understand what RAW and RAI mean.
I have a guess that RAW is "rules as written" and RAI is "rules as interpreted" but I could be WAY off on that.

I have been trying to research, balance, and decide between Ancestral Relic, Item Familiar, or Weapon of Legacy ( or a combo of 2 or all 3)
LOL

RAW is rules as written, RAI is rules as intended; If you are wanting an uber powerful item I would suggest the following:
Masterwork Livewood Quarterstaff (your staff will now heal itself over time and can be healed/Regenerated)
Ancestral Relic: Your Quarterstaff. You can now enchant it as Craft Staff, Craft Weapon, and Craft Wondrous Item
Item Familiar: Your staff is now your familiar and can do all the cool stuff they do

If you are a Warforged you can make the staff built into yourself so that it can't be taken from you while your conscious (extremely hard to do to a warforged without straight damage)

If you are a Warforged Artificer you can make it into a weapon familiar as well, which adds even more bonuses

[Uskardx42]

RAW is rules as written, RAI is rules as intended; If you are wanting an uber powerful item I would suggest the following:
Masterwork Livewood Quarterstaff (your staff will now heal itself over time and can be healed/Regenerated)
Ancestral Relic: Your Quarterstaff. You can now enchant it as Craft Staff, Craft Weapon, and Craft Wondrous Item
Item Familiar: Your staff is now your familiar and can do all the cool stuff they do

If you are a Warforged you can make the staff built into yourself so that it can't be taken from you while your conscious (extremely hard to do to a warforged without straight damage)

If you are a Warforged Artificer you can make it into a weapon familiar as well, which adds even more bonuses

You are a fount of knowledge.
I love it!!
Thank you so much.

Though, and yes another noob question, how would I enchant feats like Craft Staff Craft Wondrous Item into this Ancestral Relic Quarterstaff?
Do you have any books (or even page numbers) you could direct me towards?
I have seen that there are not an hard and fast rules for enchanting feats into items though I feel like I ran across some rules at some point.
The suggestions I have see on a different thread point to 10k gold per feat as a starting point..... :-/

[Falontani]

Haha I meant you could enchant your staff as if you had said abilities.
Magic item compendium and the dmg have rules for creating magic items and how to upgrade them.
As for adding feats it's entirely up your dm

[unseenmage]

...
Though, and yes another noob question, how would I enchant feats like Craft Staff Craft Wondrous Item into this Ancestral Relic Quarterstaff?
Do you have any books (or even page numbers) you could direct me towards?
I have seen that there are not an hard and fast rules for enchanting feats into items though I feel like I ran across some rules at some point.
The suggestions I have see on a different thread point to 10k gold per feat as a starting point..... :-/

The Arms and Equipment Guide has a sidebar of optional rules for putting feats into Magic Items. 10,000gp plus 5,000gp per prerequisite is the baseline. But as a custom Magic Item it will require GM permission.

[PacMan2247]

A key note is that the Ancestral Relic does not count as magical in any one else' possession, and is worth only a masterwork item of it's sort. Iirc it is also exempt from the Vow of Poverty's no item worth more than X clause as long as it is not magical before donations.


I haven't seen anything indicating either of these things. Could you please source them for me? An ancestral relic only functioning as such for its owner makes sense thematically (though I don't see it written in the feat), but Vow of Poverty specifically calls out that you can't own any masterwork items (which the relic is required to be), so I have a confuse.

[Falontani]

I haven't seen anything indicating either of these things. Could you please source them for me? An ancestral relic only functioning as such for its owner makes sense thematically (though I don't see it written in the feat), but Vow of Poverty specifically calls out that you can't own any masterwork items (which the relic is required to be), so I have a confuse.

I apologize! I was going off of knowledge that I had offhand and didn't fact check it. Apparently both of those are homebrew! However I would highly recommend the use of those homebrews. It makes vow of poverty on par with someone equipped with equal WBL, and it causes Ancestral Relic to be much more thematic.

I have no idea how whoever came up with this homebrew (whether it was me and I had forgotten or someone else) came up with being able to use an ancestral relic with the vow of poverty, although the way I would rationalize it is; "This is not my [insert item type here]. It is my family's. I use it now as it is my family's namesake, and I will give it to my child when they are old enough. It is not mine to donate."

[Falontani]

Warforged Artificer 12/Anointed Knight 5/Kensai 3
Stats:
16 str
8 dex
16 con (14+2)
14 int
6 wis (8-2)
14 cha (16-2)




Level


Class


Base Attack Bonus


Fort Save


Ref Save


Will Save


Skills


Feats


Class Features



1st
Artificer
+0
+0
+0
+2
Concentration +4, Knowledge Arcana +4, Spellcraft +4, Use Magic Device +4, Diplomacy +2, Ride +2, Craft Alchemy +4
Adamantine Body, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Shaky
Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Disable Trap, Item Creation, Scribe Scroll, Infuse Self


2nd
Artificer
+1
+0
+0
+3
Concentration +5, Knowledge Arcana +5, Spellcraft +5, Use Magic Device +5, Diplomacy +2.5, Ride +2.5, Craft Alchemy +5

Brew Potion


3rd
Artificer
+2
+1
+1
+3
Concentration +6, Knowledge Arcana +6, Spellcraft +6, Use Magic Device +6, Diplomacy +3, Ride +3, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +1
Item Familiar
Craft Wondrous Item


4th
Artificer
+3
+1
+1
+4
Concentration +7, Knowledge Arcana +7, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +7, Diplomacy +3.5, Ride +3.5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +2
Extraordinary Artisan
Tools of War


5th
Artificer
+3
+1
+1
+4
Concentration +8, Knowledge Arcana +8, Spellcraft +8, Use Magic Device +8, Diplomacy +4, Ride +4, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +3

Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Weapon Familiar


6th
Artificer
+4
+2
+2
+5
Concentration +9, Knowledge Arcana +9, Spellcraft +9, Use Magic Device +9, Diplomacy +4.5, Ride +4.5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +4
Ancestral Relic
Metamagic Spell Trigger


7th
Artificer
+5
+2
+2
+5
Concentration +10, Knowledge Arcana +10, Spellcraft +10, Use Magic Device +10, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +5

Craft Wand


8th
Artificer
+6
+2
+2
+6
Concentration +11, Knowledge Arcana +11, Spellcraft +11, Use Magic Device +11, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +8
Magical Artisan: Extraordinary Artisan (Alternatively Choose Attune Magic Weapon)



9th
Artificer
+6
+3
+3
+6
Concentration +12, Knowledge Arcana +12, Spellcraft +12, Use Magic Device +12, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +11
Practiced Spellcaster: Artificer
Craft Rod


10th
Artificer
+7
+3
+3
+7
Concentration +13, Knowledge Arcana +13, Spellcraft +13, Use Magic Device +13, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +13, Knowledge The Planes +1




11th
Artificer
+8
+3
+3
+7
Concentration +14, Knowledge Arcana +14, Spellcraft +14, Use Magic Device +14, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +14, Knowledge The Planes +3

Metamagic Spell Completion


12th
Artificer
+9
+4
+4
+8
Concentration +15, Knowledge Arcana +15, Spellcraft +15, Use Magic Device +15, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5
Legendary Artisan, Weapon Focus [Ancestral Relic]
Craft Staff


13th
Anointed Knight
+10
+6
+4
+10
Concentration +16, Knowledge Arcana +16, Spellcraft +16, Use Magic Device +16, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5

Anoint Self


14th
Anointed Knight
+11
+7
+4
+11
Concentration +17, Knowledge Arcana +17, Spellcraft +17, Use Magic Device +17, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5

Anoint Ancestral Weapon


15th
Anointed Knight
+12
+7
+5
+11
Concentration +18, Knowledge Arcana +18, Spellcraft +18, Use Magic Device +18, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5
Elemental Grafter, Combat Expertise



16th
Anointed Knight
+13
+8
+5
+12
Concentration +19, Knowledge Arcana +19, Spellcraft +19, Use Magic Device +19, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5

Anoint Self


17th
Anointed Knight
+14
+8
+5
+12
Concentration +20, Knowledge Arcana +20, Spellcraft +20, Use Magic Device +20, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5

Anoint Ancestral Weapon


18th
Kensai
+14
+8
+5
+14
Concentration +21, Knowledge Arcana +21, Spellcraft +21, Use Magic Device +21, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5
Elemental Smite
Signature Weapon


19th
Kensai
+15
+8
+5
+15
Concentration +22, Knowledge Arcana +22, Spellcraft +22, Use Magic Device +22, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5

Power Surge


20th
Kensai
+16
+9
+6
+15
Concentration +23, Knowledge Arcana +23, Spellcraft +23, Use Magic Device +23, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Craft Alchemy +5, Craft Armorsmith +15, Knowledge The Planes +5





Notes: Skills can easily change, only required ones are: Craft Alchemy +5, Diplomacy +5, Ride +5, Spellcraft +3, Knowledge Arcana +3.

Feats can change, only required ones are Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus, Ancestral Relic, and Item Familiar
[/FONT][/COLOR]
Weapon familiars are intelligent magic melee weapons crafted by a warforged artificer with the craft weapon familiar class feature. Each weapon familiar is magically linked to its creator, much like a normal familiar is linked to its master. A weapon familiar grants special abilities to its creator while held (as shown on the table below). Each weapon familiar grants one special ability based on the effort required to use it (light, one-handed, or two-handed) and its damage type (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing). If a weapon familiar has more than one property in the same category (such as a morningstar, which deals both bludgeoning and piercing damage), the creator chooses which special ability the weapon familiar will grant.
Light: +3 bonus on Disable Device checks
One-handed: +3 bonus on Use Magic Device checks
Two-handed: +3 bonus on Concentration checks
Bludgeoning: +2 bonus on Fortitude saves
Piercing: +2 bonus on Reflex saves
Slashing: +3 hit points
Note: Best ones here are +saves, +umd, and +HP, and the HP is only good because it makes it harder for others to destroy our weapon familiar
Weapon Familiar Basics: A weapon familiar is an intelligent magic weapon, with a basic description as given in the Player’s Handbook and the additional features described below. See Intelligent Items, page 268 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide, for more information.
Ability Scores: As an intelligent item, a weapon familiar has Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Two of these abilities have a score of 14 and one has a score of 10, as determined by the warforged artificer at the time of creation.
Hit Points: A weapon familiar has the normal hit points for a weapon of its type (see Table 8–8, page 158 of the Player’s Handbook) and enhancement bonus, plus bonus hit points equal to one-half its creator’s hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down. For example, if the creator of a +1 heavy mace weapon familiar had 25 hit points, the weapon familiar would have 42 hit points (20 for a heavy mace, +10 for being a +1 weapon, +12 for its creator’s hit points). Note: This is important to know! Write it down! We become great at surviving sunder attempts and oozes trying to eat us!
Saving Throws: A weapon familiar need not make any saving throw unless its wielder rolls a 1 on a save against an effect that could also damage the weapon familiar (such as fireball) or if the effect specifically targets the weapon familiar (such as shatter). For each saving throw, a weapon familiar uses either its own base save bonus (2 + 1/2 its creator’s artificer level) or its creator’s save bonus (from all classes), whichever is better. A weapon familiar adds its own ability modifiers on saving throws (Dex –5, Con +0, Wis varies). Note: Hallelujah it can save!
Senses: A weapon familiar has darkvision out to 60 feet, and it can hear as well as a normal person. Note: We dont have darkvision, it does. It can talk to us. We now can “see” while in darkness even though we still take miss chance. Familiar will relay location and we can fire something off in that direction
Communication: A weapon familiar can speak and understand Common, plus one language per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). It can also communicate telepathically with its master as long as it is held. Note: Good! It starts with 3 languages, one of which is common. Choose languages we don’t know.
Alignment: When created, a weapon familiar has the same alignment as its creator. Note, though, that a weapon familiar and its creator might find themselves in conflict if the creator’s alignment ever changes.
Ego: As an intelligent item, a weapon familiar has an ego score. Though it never engages in a personality conflict with its wielder, it automatically does so if another character attempts to wield it. For the purpose of determining ego score, a weapon familiar is considered to have six lesser powers, and to gain new lesser powers when its creator attains 11th level and 13th level.
Weapon Familiar Ability Descriptions: All weapon familiars gain or impart special abilities depending on their creator’s artificer level. The abilities given on the table are cumulative.


Creator Caster Level

Hardness adj.

Special



5th-6th

+1

Alertness, Deliver Touch Infusions, Improved Evasion, Share Infusions



7th-8th

+2




9th-10

+3




11th-12th

+4

Spell Resistance



13th-14th

+5

Scry on weapon familiar



15th-16th

+6





Hardness Adj.: The number noted here is an improvement to the weapon familiar’s existing hardness. Note: Eventual +6 Hardness. That is DR 6/- and 6 to all its elemental resistances. Our weapon familiar can take a beating, adding in it’s hp it probably can take more of a beating than we can
Alertness (Ex): The presence of a weapon familiar sharpens its creator’s senses. While a weapon familiar is held, the creator gains the effect of the Alertness feat (see page 89 of the Player’s Handbook).
Deliver Touch Infusions (Su): If a weapon familiar is held by its creator at the time the creator imbues an infusion with a range of touch, the creator can then deliver the infusion by touching a target with the weapon familiar (either as a melee touch attack or as a normal melee attack). If the creator imbues another infusion before the touch is delivered, the touch infusion dissipates. Note: This is useful when fighting other constructs as we can now channel Inflict Damage infusions through our weapon when we fight. It’s not as awesome as a duskblade, but we’ll make do
Improved Evasion (Ex): A weapon familiar can avoid damage from certain attacks with a successful Reflex save and take only half damage on a failed save. See the monk class feature, page 42 of the Player’s Handbook. Note: Haha! Improved evasion, means when we roll a 1 on ref save vs fireball it gets to attempt to save, it fails, and still only takes half damage. Then as an item takes half again from the damage, AND THEN applies it’s hardness. Unless someone attempts to break the weapon familiar it shant be broken.
Share Infusions: At the creator’s option, he can have any infusion he imbues on himself also affect his weapon familiar. The weapon familiar must be held at the time of casting to receive the benefit, and the creator and his weapon familiar can share spells even if those spells don’t normally affect objects. This ability otherwise functions identically to the share spells ability (page 53 of the Player’s Handbook). Note: This has several major applications. N1: When we repair ourself, we repair it and vis versa. N2: When we use Weapon Augmentation we boost it, and our slam, and any other natural weapons we have. N3: It calls out that this functions like share spells as well, meaning if we use one of our many magic items to buff ourself, we can buff our Weapon Familiar
Spell Resistance (Ex): If its creator is 11th level or higher, a weapon familiar gains spell resistance equal to the creator’s artificer level +5. The creator’s infusions automatically overcome this spell resistance. Note: SR 17 by the time we’re done. That is nice. It mainly means that others won’t accidentally polymorph it.
Scry on Weapon Familiar (Sp): If a creator’s level is 13th level or higher, he can scry on his weapon familiar (as if casting scrying with automatic success) once per day. See the spell description, page 274 of the Player’s Handbook. Note: Hope that you never have to use this.


[General]
Choose a permanent magic item that you possess. You establish a link to that magic item, and the item improves in capability as you gain levels.
Prerequisite: A character must be at least 3rd level to take this feat.
Benefit: By establishing a link to a particular item, you enable that item to gain power as you gain levels. The exact nature of the item and the powers are described in the following text.
Special: If you ever lose the chosen item (have it removed from your possession for a continuous period of more than one day per level) or if the item is destroyed, you automatically lose 200 XP per level as well as all benefits derived from possessing the linked item (plus any resources you put into the item). If you recover the item, you regain these XP. You may replace a lost or destroyed item familiar after you have advanced one level, as if you were gaining an item familiar for the first time.

In order to be an item familiar, a magic item must:
—Have a price of at least 2,000 gp.
—Be usable by the character (if it is a weapon, the character must be proficient with the appropriate category of weapon).
—Have a permanent magical effect that the character can (and knows how to) use.

When a character selects an item and chooses the Item Familiar feat, the character establishes a permanent, supernatural bond to the item familiar. This bond can be suppressed by an antimagic field or similar effect, but it cannot be dispelled. Once the character has become bonded to the magic item, the item may gain additional powers or intelligence. The character can also begin investing abilities into the item, using the item familiar to improve her own capabilities.



[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Table 5-12: Item Familiar Abilities



Character Level

Ability



1st

Invest Life Energy; Invest Skill Ranks; Invest Spell Slots



7th

Sapience; Senses; Communication



10th

Special Ability



14th

Special Ability



18th

Special Ability



21st+

One Special Ability per 3 levels above 20





Invest Life Energy: A character of 6th level or lower may invest a portion of her life force into her item familiar, receiving bonus XP in return. These XP are actually part of the item, however, so if the item is lost or destroyed, the character loses not only the bonus but a quantity of her existing XP as well. When a character chooses to invest her life energy into her item familiar, her current XP total and all future XP awards increase by 10%. However, if the character loses the item, she loses all bonus XP gained, plus an additional 200 XP per character level. Note: Do this at level 3. Your character must play as though this weapon is their life, so you will never lose this weapon.
Invest Skill Ranks: Whenever a character with an item familiar gains skill points, she may choose to put some or all of those skill points into her item familiar. She assigns the skill points normally, but notes that they now reside in the item familiar. For every 3 ranks she assigns to the item familiar, she gains a +1 bonus that she can apply to any single skill. This bonus can be applied to a skill in which she already has maximum ranks. She can apply multiple bonuses to the same skill, but she may not have more points of bonus in a skill than she has ranks. If the character loses the item familiar, is separated from it for one day per level (see the Item Familiar feat description), or if the item familiar is destroyed, these skill points and the bonuses related to them are lost. Note: I suggest doing this for all your future ranks in Spellcraft, Craft, and Knowledge Arcana. Apply the bonuses to UMD. This way if you ever do lose your weapon your not useless as you can still use your artificer skill set
Invest Spell Slot: Only spellcasters may choose to use this option. A character with an item familiar may choose to invest a single spell slot in her familiar and gain a bonus spell slot in return. The single spell slot must be of the highest spell level she can cast, and the bonus spell slot is always two levels lower than the slot invested in the item. As the caster gains (or loses) levels, the spell slot invested in the item changes so that it is always of the highest spell level she can cast, and the bonus spell slot also changes accordingly, remaining two levels lower than that. If a spellcaster does not have a spell slot two levels lower than the highest spell level she can cast (if she can cast only 0- and 1st-level spells), she cannot use this option. As with all other investiture options, if the item familiar is lost or destroyed, so are both spell slots. Note: If you do this then your weapon can later cast an infusion on you, or itself mid combat without you needing to take action. Suggested Infusions are: Repair Damage, Power Surge, Weapon Augmentation, Armor Augmentation
Sapience: If a character with an item familiar is at least 7th level, the item gains rudimentary sapience. It gains Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Two of these scores (player’s or DM’s choice) are 10 and one is 12. The item familiar also gains an Ego score (see Item Ego, page 270 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). This last score should not come into play very often—an item familiars is completely loyal to its master, unless its master radically changes alignment or one or the other is affected by some strange compulsion. Note: You can basically ignore this aspect of the item familiar
Senses: If a character with an item familiar is at least 7th level, the item can see and hear in a 60-foot radius as if it were a creature. It does not normally make Spot or Listen checks separately from its master, but its master gains the benefit of the Alertness feat while wielding the item. Note: You can basically ignore this aspect of the item familiar
Communication: If a character with an item familiar is at least 7th level, the item begins to communicate with the master using basic emotions or feelings. The item may try to tell the master of danger, for example, by putting forth a feeling of fear. It can only communicate in this manner while being worn or carried by its master. Note: Empathic Links are great and all, but they are usually meant for when the item familiar is away from you, which it will never leave your grasp
Special Ability: When an item familiar’s master reaches 10th level, and at every four levels thereafter, the master chooses a new special ability for the item from the following list. Once an ability is chosen, it becomes a permanent part of the item (unless otherwise specified). Some abilities have prerequisites.
Armor, Shield, or Weapon Special Ability: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains an ability equivalent to a +1 bonus (as found on Table 7–5, 7–6, or 7–14 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide), such as the light fortification, bashing, or defending special ability. This ability contributes to the overall enhancement bonus of the item and its value but does not cost the master of the familiar any gold pieces or time. This ability may be used in conjunction with the normal rules for improving an existing magic item (see Improving an Item Familiar, below, and Adding New Abilities, page 288 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). A character may select this special ability multiple times, each time enabling her familiar to gain a different ability equivalent to a +1 bonus.
Prerequisite: The item familiar must be a type of magic armor, a magic shield, or a magic weapon. Note: This is only nice if you are not using Ancestral Relic
Cantrips/Orisons: An item familiar empowered with this special ability can cast 0-level spells. The familiar may cast any spell invested in it as a standard action (or longer, as defined by the spell’s casting time) as long as the spell does not have an expensive material component or an XP component. The item familiar need not provide any verbal or somatic components, and it need not provide any material components that cost less than 1 gp. It has access to all the 0-level spells from any single class spell list of the master’s choice (taking into account any alignment restrictions against casting spells of a certain class or alignment subtype). It can cast a number of 0-level spells per day as if it were a sorcerer of the master’s character level (though the master does not have to be a spellcaster). The item familiar uses its own ability scores to determine spell save DCs but can cast its 0-level spells only on its master’s order. The master may use a free action on her turn to issue these orders, or she may give a number of contingency orders (such as “If I fall unconscious, cast cure minor wounds on me”) equal to one more than her Charisma modifier (minimum one). Note: Unfortunately we do not have cantrips or orisons
Greater Power: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains any single greater power listed on the Intelligent Item Greater Powers table, page 270 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. The item uses this power as described, at the master’s command. A character may select this special ability multiple times, each time applying it to a different greater power.
Prerequisite: An item must have at least one lesser power (see below) for every greater power it is given. The master must spend the amount of gold pieces given in the Base Price Modifier column of the Intelligent Item Greater Powers table to purchase the greater power. The process of empowering an item in this way takes 24 hours. Note: I’ll detail these a bit later
Greater Senses: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains blindsense out to 30 feet.
Prerequisite: The item familiar must already have the improved senses special ability (see below). Note: Useful, we are never unconscious and neither is the familiar, meaning that its always a warning if someone without darkstalker is attempting to sneak up on you
Improved Senses: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains darkvision out to 60 feet. Note: Unfortunately for Greater Senses we would need this, making it eat 2 of your 3 nonepic Special Abilities, pass.
Increased Sapience: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains +4 to any single ability score and +2 to its other two scores. The item can now communicate telepathically in a recognizable language with the master out to 120 feet and can speak audibly in Common. It can speak, read, and understand one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. A character may select this special ability multiple times, each time improving all three of the item’s ability scores and increasing the number of languages it can speak, read, and understand. Note: This is absolutely amazing, due to Anointed Knight, we’ll get to that though.
Lesser Power: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains any single lesser power listed on the Intelligent Item Lesser Powers table, page 269 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. The item uses this power as described, at the master’s command. A character may select this special ability multiple times, each time applying it to a different lesser power.
Prerequisite: The master must spend the amount of gold pieces given in the Base Price Modifier column of the Intelligent Item Lesser Powers table to purchase the lesser power. The process of empowering an item in this way takes 24 hours. Note: We’ll talk about these later too
Special Purpose and Dedicated Power: An item familiar empowered with this special ability gains a special purpose and a dedicated power chosen by its master (see the Intelligent Item Purpose and Special Purpose Item Dedicated Powers tables on page 270 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). An item familiar usually displays more flexibility in how it carries out its special purpose than a standard intelligent item, especially if its purpose conflicts with its master. However, if a master (especially one who gave the item a special purpose in the first place) consistently acts against the item’s special purpose, the item has even more leverage for keeping the “master” in line. An item familiar can temporarily sever the link between item and master, essentially shutting down access to any abilities invested in the item plus all its normal magical abilities, as if the item had been lost or destroyed. The item only reestablishes the link if it is convinced the master is committed to helping it fulfill its special purpose. No item familiar may have more than one special purpose and one dedicated power.
Prerequisite: The master must spend the amount of gold pieces given in the Base Price Modifier column of the Special Purpose Item Dedicated Powers table to purchase the dedicated power. The process of empowering an item in this way takes 24 hours. Note: This is a double edged sword. On one hand we can have resurrection be cast on us if we fall, on the other hand if our alignment is shifted forcibly our familiar no longer serves us. Quite possibly a bad thing, this is definitely more of a role play one, and thus it may be unsuitable for some tables.
Spell Use: An item familiar empowered with this ability may cast any spell invested in it as a standard action (or longer, as defined by the spell’s duration) as long as it does not have an expensive material component or an XP component. The item familiar need not provide any verbal or somatic components, and it need not provide any material components that cost less than 1 gp. The item familiar must meet the ability score prerequisites for the spell but casts the spell at the master’s level. The item familiar may cast the spell only on the master’s order (as described in Cantrips/Orisons, above). If an item familiar casts an invested spell, it is as if the master cast it for purposes of spells per day and preparation.
Prerequisite: The item must have an invested spell slot of the appropriate spell level (see Invest Spell Slots, above), and the master must have the ability to cast 3rd-level spells. Note: Pure gold. You really want this one if you want your Item Familiar to be able to buff mid combat, or heal you! Please remember about Share Infusions from way back in the other spoiler
Item Familiar Alignment: An item familiar gains its master’s alignment and, if the character changes alignment, it generally changes alignment accordingly. However, if this alignment change would be in direct conflict with the item familiar’s special purpose (if any), the item does not change alignment, and it immediately severs the link between itself and its master. The link can only be reestablished when the master changes to a nonconflicting alignment. If an item familiar changes to an alignment that would preclude it using some of its powers not tied to a special purpose, the change in alignment takes place, no severing of the link occurs, and the item cannot use those powers until its alignment becomes compatible again.
Improving an Item Familiar: An item familiar can be improved as other magic items can be. By spending gold pieces (and time and experience points, assuming the character is the one doing the work), a character can add new abilities to her item familiar. This type of improvement has nothing to do with the master’s character level, though it may affect the item’s eventual Ego score. Note: It is a really good thing that our Item familiar NEVER challenges us to an ego contest. We would lose horribly.





Level + Cha Mod Ability/Effect



Level + Cha Mod

Ability/Effect



3 or lower Good Weapon

+1d6 good damage vs evil creatures, counts as good for DR purposes, and if someone evil takes your weapon from you they lose a level while holding it



4-6 Sunder Resistance

+10 Hardness



7-8 Unicorn’s Blood

Any evil creature wounded by the weapon must make a DC 17 Fortitude save or suffer the weakening effects of unicorn blood.



9 Impervious

The Ancestral Weapon gains +50 hp



10+ Sentience

The Ancestral Weapon Becomes Intelligent




Note: I suggest Sunder Resistance and Impervious, however Sentience is very useful

[Falontani]

2 at 12, 1 at 10: Empathy, one lesser, 30 ft vision/hearing
2 at 13, 1 at 10: Empathy, two lesser, 60 ft vision/hearing
2 at 14, 1 at 10: Speech, 2 lesser, 120 ft vision/hearing
2 at 15, 1 at 10: Speech, 3 lesser, 60 ft darkvision/hearing
2 at 16, 1 at 10, Speech/read, 3 lesser, 60 ft darkvision/hearing
2 at 17, 1 at 10, Speech/telepathy, 3 lesser, 1 greater, 120 ft darkvision/hearing
2 at 18, 1 at 10: Speech/telepathy, 3 lesser, 2 greater, 120 ft darkvision/blindsense/hearing
2 at 19, 1 at 10: Speech/telepathy, 4 lesser, 3 greater, 120 ft darkvision/blindsense/hearing
Lesser Powers:
1000 GP Bless 3/day Decent, you can do better
1100 GP Faerie Fire 3/day Doesn’t scream awesome to me
2200 GP Minor Image 1/day ehh?
2700 GP Deathwatch Better
3600 GP Detect Magic Phenomenal
5000 GP 10 intim *
5000 GP 10 decipher script *
5000 GP 10 knowledge (choose one) *
5000 GP 10 search *
5000 GP 10 spot *
5000 GP 10 listen *
5000 GP 10 spellcraft 10+ranks invested+Intelligence; Yes please
5000 GP 10 sense motive *
5000 GP 10 bluff *
5000 GP 10 diplomacy *
5400 GP major image 1/day Useful
6500 GP darkness 3/day
6500 GP hold person 3/day
6500 GP daze monster 3/day
6500 GP locate object 3/day
6500 GP Cure Moderate Wounds 3/day Nice, it can heal itself.
*All useful to augment your own skills

Greater Powers: detect opposing alignment
7200 GP detect undead
7200 GP cause fear
7200 GP dimensional anchor 1/day
10000 GP dismissal 1/day
10000 GP lesser globe of invulnerability 1/day
10000 GP arcane eye 1/day
10000 GP detect scrying
10000 GP wall of fire as a ring 1/day
10000 GP quench 3/day
16000 GP status
11000 GP gust of wind 3/day
16000 GP clairvoyance 3/day
16000 GP Magic Circle vs opposite alignment Yes, take it
16000 GP haste 3/day Great, unless your DM lets you create custom items, in which case you have permanent haste already
16000 GP daylight 3/day
16000 GP deeper darkness 3/day
16000 GP invisibility purge 3/day
16000 GP slow 3/day
30000 GP locate creature 3/day
30000 GP fear 3/day
44000 GP detect thoughts definitely a good power

Dedicated Powers:
50000 GP Ice Storm
50000 GP Confusion
50000 GP Phantasmal Killer
50000 GP Crushing Despair
50000 GP Dimension Door Very potent
56000 GP Contagion
56000 GP Poison
56000 GP Rusting Grasp
60000 GP Lightning Bolt
60000 GP Fireball
80000 GP +2 luck bonus to d20 rolls Great choice
81000 GP Mass inflict Light Wounds
81000 GP Song of Discord
81000 GP Prying Eyes
130000 GP Greater Shout
164000 GP Waves of Exhaustion
200000 GP True Resurrection 1/month Take this if your DM lets you. You will always be holding your item and now it can raise you if you fall

That was a lot of spoiler, finally: What to make your Ancestral Relic, Item Familiar, Weapon Familiar, Signature Weapon into?

I suggest: Masterwork Livewood Quarterstaff with 2 wand chambers. Cost: 800 gold and 1.5 copper.
Reasons: As a Quarterstaff it can be enchanted as a staff, a weapon, a wondrous item, and a double weapon; It is both a 2 handed weapon and a 1 handed weapon The quarterstaff is the favorite weapon of many characters, from travelers, peasants, and merchants to monks, rangers, and wizards. A quarterstaff is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting, page 160). You can also strike with either end singly, a fact that allows you to take full advantage of openings in your opponent’s defenses. A creature wielding a quarterstaff in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
The quarterstaff is a special monk weapon. This designation gives a monk (see Chapter 3: Classes) wielding a quarterstaff special options. This means that while you can enchant each end separately you only have to wield it in one hand (which is important for something else)
A wand chamber is a thin, cylindrical slot on the handle of a weapon or the edge of a shield that can hold a single wand. When a wand is loaded in the chamber, it is considered ready and can be activated without having to drop the weapon or shield. Changing the wand in the chamber is a full-round action. Artificers use wands. Simple enough.


Another of the unusual woods of Aerenal, livewood is a green-colored hardwood with a highly magical nature. When livewood trees are felled, they do not die, though they stop all growth. Livewood can be worked like normal hardwood, while it remains completely alive. In most respects, livewood is just like normal wood.
A few spells affect livewood in different ways from normal wood, however. Plant growth causes worked livewood to sprout small branches and leaves, though diminish plants has no effect. Speak with plants allows a character to communicate with a livewood object, though such an object has no more awareness of its surroundings than most normal plants. Blight deals damage to a livewood object as if the object were a plant creature (1d6 points of damage per level; the wood's hardness does not apply). A character can use tree stride to move from one livewood object to another, or from a livewood tree to a livewood object (and vice versa), as long as the livewood object is large enough. Animate plants can animate a livewood object.
Dryads occasionally make their homes in livewood trees instead of oak trees. Such a dryad looks no more kindly upon the felling of her tree than other dryads do, but the felling of her livewood tree does not kill her—nor does it end her dependence on the tree. As a result, dryads can be found within livewood objects, including buildings, furniture, and ships.
Livewood has hardness 6 and 10 hit points per inch of thickness. The cost of a livewood item is half again as much (+50%) as a normal wooden item. Items without wooden parts, including armor and bladed weapons, cannot be made from livewood. Well now this is interesting, a wooden weapon that is still alive. You can heal it with cure spells, or repair it as it is an object that is alive. Regenerate
Conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration) (Healing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#healing))


Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level):
Clr 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm#seventhLevelClericSpells), Drd 9 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm#ninthLevelDruidSpells), Healing 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#healingDomain)




Components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components):
V, S, DF




Casting Time (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime):
3 full rounds




Range (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range):
Touch




Target (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#targetorTargets):
Living creature touched




Duration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration):
Instantaneous




Saving Throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow):
Fortitude negates (harmless)




Spell Resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance):
Yes (harmless)




The subject’s severed body members (fingers, toes, hands, feet, arms, legs, tails, or even heads of multiheaded creatures), broken bones, and ruined organs grow back. After the spell is cast, the physical regeneration is complete in 1 round if the severed members are present and touching the creature. It takes 2d10 rounds otherwise.
Regenerate also cures 4d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +35), rids the subject of exhaustion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#exhausted) and/or fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued), and eliminates all nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage) the subject has taken. It has no effect on nonliving creatures (including undead).
So now as long as they did not magically kill your weapon (although if they did its still a weapon) and did not actually drop it to 0 HP (won’t be easy) You can cast regenerate on your weapon to reform it. (yes this does make it into a tree which you would then need to carve into a staff).

Finally: Any character capable of creating a magic item can make the same magic item as a warforged component, and any warforged character capable of using a magic item can use the same item as a warforged component. Warforged components use the special rules given below, and otherwise conform to the normal rules for creating and using magic items. Warforged component usually occupies the same space on the body that a magic item of the same kind normally would. Components that do not occupy any space on the body cost twice what they would cost as ordinary magic items. These components only work when bonded to the body of a warforged; they are not usable by members of any other race.
There is no chance of damaging an embedded warforged component when the warforged rolls a 1 on a saving throw, and an embedded component cannot be targeted by an attack independently of the warforged who bears it. Attached components, however, can be damaged and targeted.
If a warforged component requires activation, the character with the component can activate it with a thought. Doing this requires the same kind of action as for an ordinary magic item (usually a standard action), but the warforged can do it silently and without moving, and never provokes an attack of opportunity to activate a component.
Attaching or detaching a warforged component is a standard action that never provokes an attack of opportunity.
If a warforged character has at least 1 hit point, embedded or attached components cannot be removed unless the warforged wants them to be. A disabled warforged (-1 to -9 hp) has no choice in the matter; embedded or attached components can be removed from a disabled warforged. If a warforged is destroyed (-10 hit points), each component gets an appropriate saving throw to remain intact; intact components can be salvaged.
Your item can not be removed from you without your permission.

[PacMan2247]

Thank you for clarifying. Frankly, seeing some of the junk that's been handed down in my own family for generations, I could see waiving the "masterwork quality" requirement of Ancestral Relic- maybe not for a weapon or piece of armor, but for some other protective item, sure; fluffing it with something about carrying on the hopes and dreams of the family or something.

I'm not sure about making a relic an exception to the Vow of Poverty, either as a player or a DM; mostly I'm just not convinced it would make much difference. If I were going to change it for weapon versatility, I think I'd lean more toward swapping to a slower accumulation of exalted feats (it's been my experience that after a certain point, you run out of feats to take that add anything meaningful) and adding the ability to add an elemental property (and probably the burst version at higher levels) a certain number of times per day.

[Uskardx42]

Next question on Ancestral Relic.

The Maximum Relic Value table ( table 4-2 on pg. 41 of BoED) gives the max value of the relic per character level.

I presume I already know the answer to this question, but do those limits apply to ONLY the amount spent on the item to upgrade it through the Ancestral Relic feat or is that the total value for the item when ALL upgrades, regardless of source, are added together?


Thank you for any assistance.

Uskardx42

[Fizban]

While the example text does use +2 weapon (market price 8,000gp), that's as part of an example of the costs of upgrading. The table actually says Maximum Relic Value, which includes not just upgrades but all magic, and mundane costs. So the base costs of masterwork weapons and heavy armors are quite significant as well.

[Ramza00]

Next question on Ancestral Relic.

The Maximum Relic Value table ( table 4-2 on pg. 41 of BoED) gives the max value of the relic per character level.

I presume I already know the answer to this question, but do those limits apply to ONLY the amount spent on the item to upgrade it through the Ancestral Relic feat or is that the total value for the item when ALL upgrades, regardless of source, are added together?


Thank you for any assistance.

Uskardx42

Fizban said but pointing this out if you did not notice the max gp table for ancestral relic is 1/2 your wbl at all levels. Maybe this is just me but even if your item is the main part your character you should not be spending more than 1/2 your wealth by level even with ancestral relic so besides literally being the rules it is a reminder not to go overboard with whatever your ancestral relic is.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

RAW is rules as written, RAI is rules as intended; If you are wanting an uber powerful item I would suggest the following:
Masterwork Livewood Quarterstaff (your staff will now heal itself over time and can be healed/Regenerated)
Ancestral Relic: Your Quarterstaff. You can now enchant it as Craft Staff, Craft Weapon, and Craft Wondrous Item
Item Familiar: Your staff is now your familiar and can do all the cool stuff they do

If you are a Warforged you can make the staff built into yourself so that it can't be taken from you while your conscious (extremely hard to do to a warforged without straight damage)

If you are a Warforged Artificer you can make it into a weapon familiar as well, which adds even more bonusesIf you make an elvencraft longbow instead (a weapon ability from Races of the Wild that allows a longbow to be treated as a quarterstaff whenever it's useful, so you can use it as a ranged weapon, double/two-handed melee weapon, and a magical staff), you gain a ranged weapon and a magical doo-dad, as well.

Also, I like having a portable magically-imbued altar so I can sacrifice things on the go. Handy for when you want to sacrifice things that can't be moved, like fountains, statues, and enemy strongholds.

[edit] Oh, and I prefer illithid humanoid skin grafts for my Ancestral Relic target. Enhancing your own body via sacrificing (other people's) wealth appeals to me.

[PacMan2247]

Oh, and I prefer illithid humanoid skin grafts for my Ancestral Relic target. Enhancing your own body via sacrificing (other people's) wealth appeals to me.

Heirloom grafts? Ew. :yuk:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Heirloom grafts? Ew. :yuk:Nah. Have someone with the Illithid Heritage feat turn your own skin into a graft, then regraft it onto your body. Then take the Ancestral Relic feat to imbue it with phenomenal cosmic powers itty bitty living spaces magic properties.

[edit] I like doing this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22928650&postcount=10) with it, personally.

[Uskardx42]

Fizban said but pointing this out if you did not notice the max gp table for ancestral relic is 1/2 your wbl at all levels. Maybe this is just me but even if your item is the main part your character you should not be spending more than 1/2 your wealth by level even with ancestral relic so besides literally being the rules it is a reminder not to go overboard with whatever your ancestral relic is.

Clarification question

wbl = Wealth by Level ?

[Crichton]

Clarification question

wbl = Wealth by Level ?

Yes indeed.

[SwordChucks]

Heirloom grafts? Ew. :yuk:

"You have your father's eyes..."

[Ramza00]

I always knew the uchiha were from the Far Realm(s)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I always knew the uchiha were from the Far Realm(s)Well, if it's insanity you want, a ninja who wears bright neon orange and talks really bombastically ("Believe it!") is either stupid or crazy (in the "must throw in an asylum" sort of way).

Of course, Naruto "ninjas" are actually wizards. They use verbal and somatic components to cast spells and learn their spells from scrolls. They even cast summon monster for their magical beast allies.

I guess the Uchiha clan are descendants from the elven wizards who first opened the portal to the Far Realm.

[Red Fel]

I guess the Uchiha clan are descendants from the elven wizards who first opened the portal to the Far Realm.

Lorewise, actually fairly accurate.

[PacMan2247]

Nah. Have someone with the Illithid Heritage feat turn your own skin into a graft, then regraft it onto your body. Then take the Ancestral Relic feat to imbue it with phenomenal cosmic powers itty bitty living spaces magic properties.

[edit] I like doing this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22928650&postcount=10) with it, personally.

I guess, but Ancestral Relic does specify that the item must have once belonged to a member of your family or someone else with whom you have a strong personal connection. It doesn't specify how long it had to belong to them, though, so that's something in favor.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I guess, but Ancestral Relic does specify that the item must have once belonged to a member of your family or someone else with whom you have a strong personal connection. It doesn't specify how long it had to belong to them, though, so that's something in favor.A.) You are a member of your family, and you definitely have a strong personal connection to yourself.

B.) The feat also says that you can found your own relic. Given that relics often include things like burial shrouds and ancestors' bones, directing that your skin be tanned and turned into leather after you pass on (to be crafted into armor or a heavy cloak or something) isn't exactly stretching credulity much.

[PacMan2247]

A.) You are a member of your family, and you definitely have a strong personal connection to yourself.

B.) The feat also says that you can found your own relic. Given that relics often include things like burial shrouds and ancestors' bones, directing that your skin be tanned and turned into leather after you pass on (to be crafted into armor or a heavy cloak or something) isn't exactly stretching credulity much.

As RJ put it in Over the Hedge, a family of one, eh? :smallamused:

I don't see the bit about founding your own relic. Did I miss some errata, or were you perhaps thinking of legacy items?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As RJ put it in Over the Hedge, a family of one, eh? :smallamused:

I don't see the bit about founding your own relic. Did I miss some errata, or were you perhaps thinking of legacy items?Actually, I do believe I was thinking about legacy items. Still, your skin is part of your body, and if you got anything from your ancestors, it was definitely your body. Unless you're a warforged. Or an awakened golem. Or an incorporeal ghost.

...Still, it does apply to most characters.