Sorcerer that doesn't want to be so squishy

[Kaibis]

A gazillion questions tonight, thanks for the help.

We played Death House yesterday as a one shot, now the group wants to continue. I have given them the option to re-roll any lvl 3 character (because they are all new players and I understand if they realise that they don't enjoy what they have).

One player has a sorcerer. She enjoys the character she created but was frustrated at not being able to push through a door. By the 2nd lvl of the house she was the one opening all the doors and going in. She enjoyed that (I get it, when I played Death House I was a Paladin, and I loved getting to open the doors). I also watched her during combat she was always going last and was frustrated by it (though looking at her stat sheet I now suspect she wasn't adding her +3 initiative bonus).

She wants to take me up on the offer of changing her character, but she also really likes her character (the spells, the backstory, the character). She is a Divine Sorcerer and did most of the healing, including basically reviving a player in one turn and then killing the boss in the second... So she has a fun character, just wants some more AC I think.

How can I help her?? I am open to all suggestions, no matter how bizarre.

[Dr. Cliché]

Do you allow UA?

If so, how about the Stone Sorcerer: https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/26_UASorcererUA020617s.pdf

At lv1 you get proficiency with Shields and simple and martial weapons. In addition, as an Action you can make your AC equal to 13+Con. It lasts until you're incapacitated or you wear armour (you can also end it as a bonus action).

So you've basically got 13+Con armour all the time. Plus the bonus from a shield if you choose.


Or is the intent for her to stay as a Divine Sorcerer? If so, is she using Mage Armour and Shield? Because those are the go-to spells for AC improvements for casters.

[Raif]

2 level dip of Hexblade will give her medium armor + shield proficiency + slight health bump, along with all the goodies of being a warlock (best attack cantrip in the game, 2 short rest spell slots, 2 invocations, shield spell from warlock freeing up a spell from your sorcerer selection).

If not warlock then depending on her other stats, Paladin for a single level (or 2 to get smites) to get more armor.

Spells that can help: mage armor, shield, absorb elements, blink, mirror images.

To be very honest CoS is brutal, deathouse especially. Sorcerers are squishy by nature and shouldnt really be opening doors and taking point unless theyre built to. Its all about not getting hit for them, so causing disadvantage or just staying at range is her best option. If she wants to be up close, i would look into multiclassing or swapping to another hardier class.

[Beelzebubba]

Yeah, some good options. Here's two more:

A one-level dip into Cleric with the current character.

Tempest adds martial weapons, heavy armor and some blaster potential
War adds martial weapons, heavy armor, tanky defensive spells, and an almost 'action surge'
Life adds heavy armor and some extra healing
Light adds medium armor and some nice offensive spells

She'll get a few more HP, but more importantly, get access to medium or heavy armor.

She can avoid the MAD issues with Wisdom/Charisma by focusing her Cleric known spells on ones that don't involve DCs - like healing and defense. (It can also be useful and flavorful to pick up Ritual spells like Detect Magic and Detect Poison and Disease, since she'll have a ton of 'known spells' at 1st level to spare.) She can then focus her Divine Soul cleric spells on higher level offense / abjurations / debuffs.

There's also a re-build into full Cleric instead. She'll get lots more hit points, medium or heavy armor, and depending on the domain, she can still have some excellent blaster potential that can feel close to a Sorcerer.

[Aett_Thorn]

Being a Mountain Dwarf would give her extra Con and Medium Armor proficiency.

[Kaibis]

To be very honest CoS is brutal, deathouse especially. Sorcerers are squishy by nature and shouldnt really be opening doors and taking point unless theyre built to. Its all about not getting hit for them, so causing disadvantage or just staying at range is her best option. If she wants to be up close, i would look into multiclassing or swapping to another hardier class.

Agreed, and she knew it too, hence the discussion. She survived luckily, but she hated that she knew she couldn't be the one poking the really suspicious looking stuff.

All these ideas are awesome thank you. I am checking them out now. Thanks heaps.

[Asmotherion]

Just to put it out there, but a Divine Sorcerer who focuses just a little bit on his AC (regular Spell selections really), can get an easy AC 17-18 (Mage Armor+Shield of Faith+Dex Bonus of +2/+3). This can be buffed X times per day to 22-23 with the Shield spell, where X is your number of Spell slots (From some point on, you obviously have better things to do with your spell slots, you just have the "safety-net" feeling of it). Meanwile you can have access to Scag Cantrips, and latter Shadow Blade (to justify your High Dex and reduce Madness).

Gishing as a Divine Sorcerer is perfectly viable, and I would never call Sorcerers "squishy".

For even better solutions, try out 2 level dips in Hexblade OR Paladin, for Shield Profficiency (a net +2 bonus to AC), and other goodies depending on your selection. Both allow you to wear Armor, but in the Hexblade's case it's better, because it gives you a better deal of doing so (since you can put Everything in Cha and not look back). Paladin makes you choose Dex or Armor (depending on what's better for you), which can end up being a solid choice as well.

I cannot begin to describe how good a Hexblade Sorlock performs in CoS (in my experiance). Still both are good choices if the player decides to Dip.

[Nidgit]

She's got 16-17 Dex? Just do a one (or more) level dip into Fighter for medium armor. Instant 16 AC.

If her Wis is good enough, you could allow her to dip Revised Ranger for advantage of Initiative in addition to better armor.

[Citan]

Hey OP ;)

So, after a quick glance, I think all solutions have been given already. My only contribution will be to rate them from best to lowest (speaking only 1-level dip here because since she's a new player, I'd advise to stay as closest to single-class as possible).

0. Divine Soul.
As someone said, she could just use spells on Shield of Faith and Healing Words and otherwise use cantrips, gritting her teeth until she reaches level 5 or so. Probably the most frustrating short term, but definitely the lest frutrating past char level 8-9 when you start waiting a long time for the next level.

Also, I'd STRONGLY advise for her to take Extended metamagic and learn Mage Armor and Aid, and for you to welcome kindly the related tactics...
Aka her (up)casting Extended Mage Armor and Extended Aid before they take a long rest, without you making an ambush breaking the rest and preventing the regain *just because adventurers should always be on guard and keep resources*. I mean, it's a lesson they ought to be teached some time, but you can probably wait at least level 6-7 for that unless they really try to take long rests in impossible situations. ^^
That way, she will...
- Be much more confident in her own survival (you talked about a +3, so 16 DEX, so Mage Armor = 16 AC. Really honest.)
- Contribute heavily to party's resilience (5 HP is always nice at that level, and once she can upcast it players will feel a difference even against heavier-hitting enemies)...
- Without feeling that she just spends all her resources on keeping people alive (so that she can keep a bit on fuel for a self Shield of Faith, or maybe start and use offensive spells).

1. Stone Sorcerer: it's not Divine, so it may be a no-go if she wants healing, but it's otherwise the best way to go: much better resilience and no progression delay.


2. Hexblade Warlock: one short rest slot for Shield or Shield of Faith, medium armor and shields proficiency to pair with Sorcerer's Shocking Grasp or Warlock's Eldricht Blast, ability to use CHA for occasional weapon attacks (hand crossbow), no MADness requirement. Best dip available, hands down.

3. Life Cleric: even better healing and heavy armor and shield.
Also ability to get a few prepared utility spells for days in which fighting is extremely unlikely, in addition to freeing at least two spell known from Sorcerer and giving useful cantrips. Requires 13+WIS but largely worth the investment. Would be on par or better than Warlock if not for that WIS requirement. :)

4. Fighter: honestly the worse dip, by far, I wouldn't actually recommend it at all. Constitution proficiency is wasted, weapon proficiencies won't make any real difference on a class with no weapon attack incentive, so the only real benefit is armor proficiency, which you can gain through better dips, see above.

(Ratings would change with 2-levels because many options appear, but as said, I feel one level dip is already dangerously close to the "too much" line for a level 3 character and newcoming player).

[Kaibis]

Hey OP ;)

So, after a quick glance, I think all solutions have been given already. My only contribution will be to rate them from best to lowest (speaking only 1-level dip here because since she's a new player, I'd advise to stay as closest to single-class as possible).
1. Stone Sorcerer: it's not Divine, so it may be a no-go if she wants healing, but it's otherwise the best way to go.
2. Hexblade Warlock: one short rest for Shield or Shield of Faith, medium armor and shields proficiency to pair with Sorcerer's Shocking Grasp or Warlock's Eldricht Blast.
3. Life Cleric: even better healing and heavy armor and shield.
4. Fighter: honestly the worse dip, by far, I wouldn't actually recommend it.

(Ratings would change with 2-levels because many options appear, but as said, I feel one level dip is already dangerously close to the "too much" line for a level 3 character and newcoming player).

You have just made my morning easier. I was about to sit down and build a character for each option just to get a feel for it. At least now I can start at the top, and if it is quiet what she is after I will move to the next one.... Funny though because I was going to opt for the fighter as my first choice, it sounded good.

[Kaibis]

Can I kind of reverse the question though. Are there any classes that would benefit from a 1-2 lvl dip into Sorcerery?

I mean, could she become an out and out fighter? Instead of dipping into fighting, she is a fighter who has dipped into sorcery (or wizardry?).

Or is that silly?

[Kaibis]

I don't love the mage armor option, because it is basically giving up a 1st lvl spell slot so that she can have AC16 for 8hrs per day. AT what point are lvl1 spell slots happily burnt in order to maintain 16hrs per day coverage?

A shield or leather armor would be better as it is more 'permanent', she didn't use her weapons at all.

[Citan]

I don't love the mage armor option, because it is basically giving up a 1st lvl spell slot so that she can have AC16 for 8hrs per day. AT what point are lvl1 spell slots happily burnt in order to maintain 16hrs per day coverage?

A shield or leather armor would be better as it is more 'permanent', she didn't use her weapons at all.
I feel you should re-read my post with the edit, since I provide a well-working solution without any dip.

Sure, it is still an investment because it locks a Metamagic and (for a while) at least one spell known.
But she can start most days with all slots available. ;)

Of course, if usually in your sessions the "action part" of adventuring days lasts more than 8 hours that idea won't work, but would that happen really often? It's not my experience. ^^
Strolling and fighting for more than 6 hours (because let's not forget about short rests ^^) ought to take a big toll already.


Can I kind of reverse the question though. Are there any classes that would benefit from a 1-2 lvl dip into Sorcerery?

I mean, could she become an out and out fighter? Instead of dipping into fighting, she is a fighter who has dipped into sorcery (or wizardry?).

Or is that silly?
It's not silly at all, but it will require some more time before the concept fully comes online. If may be or not a better idea depending on how serious is her taste for being borderline reckless and being always on front.
Even then though I'd still recommend picking a caster gish like Valor/Swords Bard or a Paladin / Ranger, which have built-in spellcasting fluid into progression.
Not that multiclass wouldn't work (like a classic Fighter / Cleric), but it's always a bit more demanding. :)


You have just made my morning easier. I was about to sit down and build a character for each option just to get a feel for it. At least now I can start at the top, and if it is quiet what she is after I will move to the next one.... Funny though because I was going to opt for the fighter as my first choice, it sounded good.
My pleasure.
Note that Fighter was no good in this case specifically (single-level dip for a Sorcerer).

But on any other caster that also has some weapon-related features, especially as a starting dip, Fighter is much more interesting because he brings the Constitution proficiency (which means easier concentration), very important for any caster relying on concentration spells (no more than 70% of all caster builds XD), and Fighting Style is a nice boost.
And 2nd level (Action Surge) means you can cast two spells in the same turn if you were so inclined, which is not that interesting as a level 3 caster but becomes your best feature as a level 10+ caster.
It's always all about the end objective, and how much one is ready to wait for it ^^

[Kaibis]

Okay wow, the Stone Sorcerer is almost untouchable. (Just noticed that the Draconic Sorcerer has the same sort of options).

At lvl3 she has:
23hp (20hp + bonus 3 for SS)
AC:
Base AC: 10 + 3 (dex) + 2 (Shield) = 15
Mage Armour AC: 13 + 3 (dex) + 2 (shield) = 16 (this lasts 8hrs, or 16hrs if a sorcery point is spent to extend it)
Stone Armour AC: 13 + 2(con) + 2 (shield) = 17 (last indefinitely)
Draconic Res. AC: 13 + 3(dex) + 2(shield) = 16 (last indefinitely)

Any one better than the others?
I think Draconic Bloodline looks to be the go, but what am I missing?
eta: to fix what I was missing. Thank you so much for helping me understand this.

[Kaibis]

I feel you should re-read my post with the edit, since I provide a well-working solution without any dip.

Just saw this, re-reading now (are you suggesting that sticking with the Divine Soul could be her best bet, hang on I will read more).

[Citan]

Okay wow, the Stone Sorcerer is almost untouchable. (Just noticed that the Draconic Sorcerer has the same sort of options).

At lvl3 she has:
23hp (20hp + bonus 3 for SS)
AC:
Base AC: 10 + 3 (dex) + 2 (Shield) = 15
Mage Armour AC: 13 + 3 (dex) + 2 (shield) = 18 (this lasts 8hrs, or 16hrs if a sorcery point is spent to extend it)
Stone Armour AC: 13 + 2(con) + 2 (shield) = 17 (last indefinitely)
Draconic Res. AC: 13 + 3(dex) + 2(shield) = 18 (last indefinitely)

Any one better than the others?
I think Draconic Bloodline looks to be the go, but what am I missing?
Well...
a) I don't get where you are grabbing shield proficiency. Is it from Stone? I'm pretty sure any other Bloodline won't have it. So don't count on it.
b) There is no best choice really. I suggested Extended Mage Armor in good part because of the Divine Soul choice, since many Cleric spells benefit from Extend Metamagic.
Grabbing Draconic instead means she can freely take other Metamagics and don't even have to learn Mage Armor.
Grabbing Stone instead means same as Draconic except she loses one point of Initiative (not so bad) and weapon attack (which she seems not to care about) to instead start with a 16 in Constitution for same AC but better HP.

Okay, there is in fact a better choice. ^^
Divine Soul with Extended for a single-class Sorcerer that grabs the best of Cleric along with her own greatness (Healing Words, Aid, Shield of Faith for a time, Spiritual Weapon, Silence, Lesser Restoration, Revivify).
She'll still have to use a good chunk of her spells at lower level (until I expect lvl 6) because no shield proficiency, but it works.

Stone Sorcerer otherwise will provide a much better AC stat (16 CON + shield = 18), BUT it also means party won't have any healing/restoration capability. Healing potions can cope with hp restoration, but the lack of Lesser Restoration and the like may be a big deal (honest interrogation, I'm not familiar with any of official campaigns).

I think the first will be much better in the long run, but if risk is high they wouldn't even reach level 5, then as far as her own survival go (and that campaign can be finished without Cleric exclusives, only potions) then Stone is better.

(Draconic would still be a competitor only if your player wanted to have fun blasting or flying around at much higher levels).

[Kaibis]

a) I don't get where you are grabbing shield proficiency. Is it from Stone? I'm pretty sure any other Bloodline won't have it. So don't count on it.
Okay, my mistake, I knew something felt wrong. Thanks, and fixed.


Stone Sorcerer otherwise will provide a much better AC stat (16 CON + shield = 18), BUT it also means party won't have any healing/restoration capability. Healing potions can cope with hp restoration, but the lack of Lesser Restoration and the like may be a big deal (honest interrogation, I'm not familiar with any of official campaigns).
Does that mean that she would lose the "Spare the Dying" cantrip? I thought that was really powerful and useful, and I think she did too.


b) There is no best choice really. I suggested Extended Mage Armor in good part because of the Divine Soul choice, since many Cleric spells benefit from Extend Metamagic.
Grabbing Draconic instead means she can freely take other Metamagics and don't even have to learn Mage Armor.
Grabbing Stone instead means same as Draconic except she loses one point of Initiative (not so bad) and weapon attack (which she seems not to care about) to instead start with a 16 in Constitution for same AC but better HP.



Okay, there is in fact a better choice. ^^
Divine Soul with Extended for a single-class Sorcerer that grabs the best of Cleric along with her own greatness (Healing Words, Aid, Shield of Faith for a time, Spiritual Weapon, Silence, Lesser Restoration, Revivify).
Forgive my newb status, what does "Divine Soul with Extended" mean. Do you mean Divine Soul Sorcerer with the Extended Meta Magic so she can use Mage Armor for 16hrs?

Okay, so I have some options to present to her.
They are almost (not really) heals, dps, tank options. I presume if she took stone sorcerer that she would need to try to max out her constitution (using the point buy on DNDBeyond).

ETA: and a huge thanks, this blows my mind, there is so much to understand.

[Raif]

Okay, my mistake, I knew something felt wrong. Thanks, and fixed.


Does that mean that she would lose the "Spare the Dying" cantrip? I thought that was really powerful and useful, and I think she did too.



Yes, that is a Cleric only spell and the reason she has it is from being Divine Soul Sorcerer.

I would highly suggest a dip into hexblade in this case, it's almost too perfect. You get:


Medium armor proficiency and shield proficiency
2 short rest spell slots
Hex Warrior (using Charisma to wield a weapon)
Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast
If she doesn't want to, or have access to, wear medium armor or a shield she can grab the Armor of Shadows invocation and get at will Mage Armor saving you a spell slot and leaving her to wear no armor.


This would let her keep her healing spells and be a healing support character from her spells as a Divine Soul Sorcerer and make her beefy enough to not get hit. Her AC would be 18 with medium armor and shield and she'd get a minimum of 19 HP before taking her constitution into account.

HP:
Level 1 Sorcerer: 6 + Con
Level 2 (1) Warlock: 8 + Con
Level 3 (2) Warlock: 5 + Con

The 2 short rest spell slots will let her constantly use spells like Shield of Faith or Shield for protection and let her damage come from Eldritch Blast or any weapon she wants from Hex Warrior if she wants to mix it in melee.

Also, I would suggest not running an adventuring day for more than 10 hours (this is to the players). Getting exhaustion from adventuring in CoS would be brutal.

Does it delay her Sorcerer spellcasting? Definitely. Your other option is staying full Sorcerer and using Mage Armor as a spell slot and using Shield spells like Mirror Images/Blink to not get hit. I wouldn't really go for Extended. 16 hour mage armor sounds awesome, till you realize that you don't actually use it for that long.

If she does stay pure Divine Soul I would take Twinned for twinning Healing Word and get used to taking a back seat as if she gets hit, she will get wrecked. In any other campaign or adventure I'd say yea go for it, but CoS is brutal. I just TPK'd in there later on down the line (level 7) on a Light Cleric.


I don't love the mage armor option, because it is basically giving up a 1st lvl spell slot so that she can have AC16 for 8hrs per day. AT what point are lvl1 spell slots happily burnt in order to maintain 16hrs per day coverage?

And to answer this, around level Sorcerer 5 or 6 is when 1st level spell slots start becoming fodder. Is there a specific reason you're aiming for 16 hour coverage? In my personal experience, COS will burn all of your players stuff much faster than that and will probably head off to rest somewhere.

[Kaibis]

And to answer this, around level Sorcerer 5 or 6 is when 1st level spell slots start becoming fodder. Is there a specific reason you're aiming for 16 hour coverage? In my personal experience, COS will burn all of your players stuff much faster than that and will probably head off to rest somewhere.

Okay. I will explore this as well.

I was only saying 16hrs, because that covers all the non-long resting time of a day.

They aren't going to do CoS unfortunately. I ran Death House because I had just finished playing it and loved it, now my group is moving on to CoS, so I can't DM it because - spoilers. I am currently trying to decide which module to go with next (Probably Yawning Portal).

[Citan]

Okay, my mistake, I knew something felt wrong. Thanks, and fixed.


1. Does that mean that she would lose the "Spare the Dying" cantrip? I thought that was really powerful and useful, and I think she did too.


2. Forgive my newb status, what does "Divine Soul with Extended" mean. Do you mean Divine Soul Sorcerer with the Extended Meta Magic so she can use Mage Armor for 16hrs?

3. Okay, so I have some options to present to her.
They are almost (not really) heals, dps, tank options. I presume if she took stone sorcerer that she would need to try to max out her constitution (using the point buy on DNDBeyond).

ETA: and a huge thanks, this blows my mind, there is so much to understand.
Hey, sorry I didn't realize you weren't too familiar either with 5e. :)

Please let me detail a bit more.
1. Yes she would lose it, because it's a Cleric cantrip, she could learn it only because of the Divine Soul which allows to learn from both Sorcerer and Cleric list.

2. I meant...
- Picking the Divine Soul archetype (like before).
- Picking the Extend metamagic, which costs 1 SP to double the duration of (mostly) any spell.

This means that, at least whenever the party has a "free" day with light slot consumption and a safe place to take a long rest, she could Extend Mage Armor on herself (and maybe others, like a Monk or Rogue who may get some benefit of it with 16 or 18 DEX) as well as (up)casting Aid on the whole party or nearly (I have the feeling your group is a small party, otherwise there would be probably a Bard or Cleric already, so I guess 3-man party, is that about right?)...
So in short she casts 16-hour duration spells just before taking a long rest so when party starts next adventuring day they benefit from Mage Armor and Aid but Sorcerer still has full resources available for the upcoming encounters.

This obviously isn't a trick you could use when resting in a hostile dungeon though, so it would give some incentive to the party to pace themselves, invest more time in investigating enemy forces and finding/setting up safe places...
Which may or not be easy in that campaign your run (reminder: I know nothing of it), or may not fit your or your player's taste.

If that is not acceptable for you or your Sorcerer for whatever reason (at least as a routine tactic), then a dip will probably be in order, or switch to single-class Paladin (possibly best for her, excellent balance overall) or Tempest Cleric (more healing, less martial, but many good bonus spells).

So, quick overview of options.
1. Single-class Divine Sorcerer
+ Metamagic fun (maybe available combinations depending on her focus, I'll detail if she goes that way and you/her need help).
+ Great spell list (both Sorcerer and Cleric, what's not to like? You have even better choice than a Wizard here).
- Resource-based defense: at least until level 5-6 she will probably blow 50% of slots on surviving whenever the aforementioned tactic is not available.
- VERY few spell known: for someone that wants to be Sorcerer and Cleric at the same time, the few number of spells can become a big source of frustration, unless she is fine with having one or two options of each kind (healing/buff/offense).
- No melee capability: Shocking Grasp is great but that's about all. She can use Booming Blade and GreenFlameBlade occasionally but it relies on DEX first so she won't be that good at it.
- A bit harder to build: metamagics synergizing with different spells and few spell known mean you have to be thoughtful about every choice. Unless you'd agree to houserule she can swap one spell every long rest, which would not change anything balance wise but would be very nice for her.

2. Hexblade Warlock 1 / Divine Soul Sorcerer X
+ Brings very good AC (with disadvantage on stealth if highest armor), expands spells and cantrips relying on CHA, allows CHA to be used for weapon attacks, makes her pretty good against one enemy every short rest.
- Delays main progression by one level.
Progression: Sorcerer 1 > Warlock 1 > Sorcerer X
>>> Probably the best compromise for her if she like fluff and mechanics of Divine Soul Sorcerer.
And gives her some interesting ways to develop her character AFTER she went at least Sorcerer 8.

3. Life Cleric 1 / Divine Soul Sorcerer X
+ Brings best AC (but disadvantage on stealth and speed loss if heavy armor), best healing, and technically boosts her versatility since she can ritual-cast and change Cleric spells every day (so on days without encounters, she can prepare utility spells, she'll always have Cure Wounds prepared anyways).
- Requires 13 WIS (actually 14, really, because it means one more spell prepared ;)).
- Delays progression.
>>> The other best compromise, damn close to Warlock yet a tad lesser, because while you get more spell versatility, you don't get any weapon attack enhancement. Basically the best for a Sorcerer with just great healing, but her only melee will still be Shocking Grasp.

4. Tempest Cleric 1-2-3 / Divine Soul Sorcerer X
I put it here for information, but I wouldn't recommend it unless she really likes the feeling.
Progression would be...
Sorcerer 1 > Cleric 1 > Sorcerer 5 > Cleric 2(3) > Sorcerer X (Cleric 3 somewhen).
Basically you choose Tempest Domain essentially to grab its Channel Divinity once you got Shatter and Lightning Bolt to use with. And possibly a third level later to get all 2nd level spells, alleviating Sorcerer's spell known.
Only if she wants to go Divine Soul Sorcerer yet has some nice way to deal heaps of damage later (maximized damage on Chain Lightning? Yes please, beware of collateral though ^^).
Otherwise, might as well go...

5. single-class Tempest Cleric
+ Cleric means healing and condition removal is pretty well covered, even without the extra buff from Life.
+ Cleric means she can change prepared spells at will, so no fear of choosing the wrong spell and be stuck with it for a whole level. And overall much better versatility than Divine Sorcerer evidently :)
+ Tempest means you automatically get some battlefield control and direct damage built-in, with the aforementioned nova damage.
+ Tempest also means all armor and weapons, and a bit of extra damage on weapon attacks at higher levels.
- Not a Sorcerer. XD
- Limited melee capability unless she builds around it.
- Big ties with Deities, depending on how far you enforce that into roleplay, she may or not like it.

6. Ancients or Devotion Paladin
(I'll let other people say whichever is better for this campaign).
+ Paladin means built-in minimum healing and restoration as well as some single-target control, with interchangeable spells.
+ Paladin means sturdy martial chassis with the basics (armor and weapons, Extra Attack) and more (nova damage with Smite ability).
+ Paladin means Aura of Protection (+CHA on all saves), great for you and anyone within 10 feet.
+ Archetype means either fear immunity (Devotion) or resistance against spell effects (Ancients).
+ Archetype means either even better at weapon attacks (Devotion) or nice array of battlefield control (Ancients).
- Some role-playing ties, although it's more about her behaviour in general than faith, so less constricting than Cleric overall.
- Resource management is a bit painful at low level, since you have to always assess whether it's better to use a slot on smiting or keep it for an actual spell.

It all depends on what she wants really.
If she wants the easiest, 5 it is.
If she wants to hold her own even in melee but party has no other healer, 2. and 6. will be the best.
If she just wants protection as a caster, anything apart Paladin will do.
If she wants the most versatility, 5 (easiest) or 4 (harder, better in very long run like char level 11+).


Yes, that is a Cleric only spell and the reason she has it is from being Divine Soul Sorcerer.

I would highly suggest a dip into hexblade in this case, it's almost too perfect. You get:

Also, I would suggest not running an adventuring day for more than 10 hours (this is to the players). Getting exhaustion from adventuring in CoS would be brutal.

Does it delay her Sorcerer spellcasting? Definitely. Your other option is staying full Sorcerer and using Mage Armor as a spell slot and using Shield spells like Mirror Images/Blink to not get hit. I wouldn't really go for Extended. 16 hour mage armor sounds awesome, till you realize that you don't actually use it for that long.

I agree that a single-level dip may be worth. Two of them? Definitely not imo. This would be two more levels waiting for encounter-changing spells like Haste, Slow, Spirit Guardians or Fireball. Unless there is another caster that can take care of that kind of spells.



If she does stay pure Divine Soul I would take Twinned for twinning Healing Word and get used to taking a back seat as if she gets hit, she will get wrecked. In any other campaign or adventure I'd say yea go for it, but CoS is brutal. I just TPK'd in there later on down the line (level 7) on a Light Cleric.

Technically Aid is better than Twin Healing Words (same overall cost but one more target and increases maximum HP) and can be Quickened if really need be. Quicken which is overall useful whatever kind of spell you learn and whatever kind of Sorcerer you are.
Considering a Sorcerer only gets two metamagics for a long time... ;)



And to answer this, around level Sorcerer 5 or 6 is when 1st level spell slots start becoming fodder. Is there a specific reason you're aiming for 16 hour coverage? In my personal experience, COS will burn all of your players stuff much faster than that and will probably head off to rest somewhere.
Well, that is good to know, that means my aforementioned Extended trick would in fact have a good chance to be used on a regular basis. ^^

[Throne12]

I don't know if anyone said this but. she might want to switch to cleric. She gets heavy armor, cool spells and more hp so she can open the doors. For Initiative unless you have a high bonus to add it doesnt matter too much. Also point out if she didnt go last in initiative. She wouldn't get those cool moment's were she saved another pc. And got the killing blow on the bad guy.

[strangebloke]

Draconic sorc is the most resilient sorcerer subclass. You basically have a d8 hit die and free mage armor at all times. Dipping into hexblade is the best option if you want to go melee without sacrificing your efficacy in other areas. If you want to have high strength, you'll need to dip cleric or paladin.

...but if you're dipping paladin, you should stay in for at least 2 levels. You only get one spell level behind though, so it isn't all bad.

Using extend on mage armor is a dubious choice, since 1 SP is approximately equivalent in value to a casting of mage armor. Yes, I know, you can cast it the night before, but I have a great personal distaste for using stuff that requires me to keep track of what time of day it is.

[WickerNipple]

Most of what I'd want to say has been said already, I just want to put my vote behind Cleric as the dip. A single level of Life or Tempest solves so many of the OP's player issues with very little lost and very few additional complications for newer players.

Be sure to take Sorcerer at lvl 1 for Constitution saves.

[sithlordnergal]

Personally, I would take a two level Paladin dip, take the Defense Fighting Style, and snag war caster if she is a variant human.

She doesn't really need to worry about Strength, since using heavy armor without the strength requirements only drops your speed by 10, it will get her AC up to 21-26 with a very small investment. Smite+Quicken Green Flame Blade using a Dex weapon gives her two attacks, and plenty of smiteing capabilities. And finally, it buffs her hp.

Edit: Divine Soul also meshes well with Paladin, and will really give her a Divine Crusader Caster feel.

[Citan]

Personally, I would take a two level Paladin dip, take the Defense Fighting Style, and snag war caster if she is a variant human.

She doesn't really need to worry about Strength, since using heavy armor without the strength requirements only drops your speed by 10, it will get her AC up to 21-26 with a very small investment. Smite+Quicken Green Flame Blade using a Dex weapon gives her two attacks, and plenty of smiteing capabilities. And finally, it buffs her hp.

Edit: Divine Soul also meshes well with Paladin, and will really give her a Divine Crusader Caster feel.
I'll have to pull a yellow flag here.
Sometimes 10 feet less is not a big deal, sometimes it saves your life (because you are in range of 2 melee instead of 4, or you managed to reach a cover, or you pulled out of an expected target of AOE...).

I won't have any opinion myself for our current case, but I'd ask people who played the campaign to tell if in their experience mobility could be of the essence. :)

[Kaibis]

Hey, sorry I didn't realize you weren't too familiar either with 5e. :)
No, I am one of those players that becomes the DM because they want a group (and then twists the arms of all their friends so that they have players). :D

I have played a grand total of 7 sessions as a player (and loving it), and have DM-ed one session, all just this year. My only other 5e experience is watching Critical Role (which really got me inspired to play properly).

Thank you for the extended explanations, you are really helping - it is a very steep learning curve, I am ever grateful for both having modules to follow, and people on forums like this who offer so much help.

[Spore]

On another notice, maybe teach her with a few jump scares that sometimes it is best to leave things undisturbed in Barovia. We have recently encountered some weird scarecrows that might just fit the bill. =)

I would heavily suggest Celestial Warlock, all of the levels. Nothing is more frustrating to a newer player than seeing all the other classes get their fun stuff while you have to wait. Yes you have added utility for the start but you traded in your progression for it. I dipped a single level on a non-caster class and while i heavily benefit from it my ASI lags behind. But I understand the trade-off.

With a Celestial Warlock (and maybe some attribute switch arounds) she is the main source of radiant damage in the group, she still has access to force damage, has a better hit dice, healing spells to mend some of the mistakes she can do and by 6th level she is a radiant damage blaster (I still assume she picks up Agonizing Blast but on anything vulnerable to radiant damage it then finally becomes a better option).

Assuming standard DMG Aasimar and pb 27:
Str 9
Dex 14 (AC of 14 with Studded Leather)
Con 15 (Resilient Con on 4)
Int 10
Wis 10 (both mainly for RP reasons)
Cha 16 (Cha 18 would be better of course but you want to survive the adventure, but die half way through and deal a bit more damage)

[Lord8Ball]

A simple solution would be her standing back and casting mage hand to open a door while the other characters soak up the damage. Possibly if a V-human gets ritual caster or mage initiate for familiar to push in for her so she could get the feeling of going deeper and can explore through its eyes with relative safety.