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View Full Version : [3.5] Ways to maintain concentration without concentrating?



Zaq
2018-03-11, 05:14 PM
I'm just making a few minor tweaks to my old Truenamer guide, and I've noticed that there's enough utterances with a duration of Concentration that it kind of makes sense to try to find a way to get around the fact that durations of Concentration are not usually very good, especially when one of the Truenamer's few defining advantages is that after a certain level, it can and should be using a swift action to attempt to use another utterance more rounds than not, which by my reading of the rules is not possible while maintaining concentration on an existing utterance. Diagram that sentence. I dare you.

I do know that there are a few ways to maintain concentration on an effect while not actually devoting your character's full set of actions to it. The Swift Concentration skill trick [CSc] and Extraordinary Concentration feat [CAdv] let you change which action you're using to maintain concentration, but they don't get around the "you can't cast [or utter] while you're already maintaining concentration on another effect" rule, even if you've got the actions free, so we'd need to find something else.

I'm familiar with three or four main ways to fake concentrating while still freeing yourself to lay more magic on the field, and I'm curious if anyone knows of any other useful ways, especially since all of the methods I'm aware of are semi-expensive in terms of build resources.

At 10th level, a Spirit Shaman [CDiv] can hand off concentration on a spell or a SLA (since utterances are SLAs, the fact that this explicitly calls out SLAs is kind of nice) to their spirit guide. I can think of no good reasons why you'd have 10 levels in Spirit Shaman and also have enough utterances that you care about them (outside of maybe a really weird gestalt build), so we'll leave that one alone. A shame, because it has the fewest rules-based pitfalls of any of the methods I'm listing here—it just has far and away the highest cost.
The 3rd level Psion power Solicit Psicrystal [XPH] lets you hand concentration on a power (you might make an argument that a spell would fall under transparency, but since utterances are SLAs, that's a little dicier) to your psicrystal. It's, shall we say, a nontrivial investment for someone who is primarily a Truenamer to have a psicrystal, and you'd need 5 levels in Psion to gain access to the power without shenanigans. Fewer levels than Spirit Shaman, at least, but still a nasty investment. (A GM who accepts that Solicit Psicrystal works on utterances might also accept that UMD works on dorjes, but I'm not convinced that either of those things are actually RAW.)
The 4th level Telepath power Schism [XPH] might work, but I feel like it's not as ironclad an interpretation of the rules as we might like (can the second mind concentrate on an effect that didn't originate with it? It almost certainly cannot utter on its own), and it's going to be likely to be even harder to get access to than Solicit Psicrystal.
The most promising effect I can find is the spell Sonorous Hum [SpC], which is a 2nd level Bard spell and a 3rd level Cleric or Sor/Wiz spell. Unlike the Psion powers, you can unambiguously UMD a wand of this one without taking levels in something other than Truenamer. The main downside is that it affects "the next spell you cast" and doesn't say anything about SLAs, so you need a bit of a favorable GM ruling to make it work with utterances. The other big downside is that it explicitly only works on a single spell per casting. This might be halfway usable on Reversed Ward of Peace or Reversed Singular Mind, but it's a huge waste of effort to try to make it work on something like a Reversed Word of Nurturing, since those can only last 1 extra round anyway. We'd need a way to either get multiple consecutive Sonorous Hums without much in the way of action expenditure or a way around the "next spell" limitation. (I feel like you could make an argument that it'd be an acceptable strategy to spend the actions and the gold to UMD a casting of this spell at the start of combat if it would let you get off several instances of RWoN, but at 1:1, you might as well just concentrate normally.)

As you can see, these all have issues, and I don't feel like any of them have a cost/benefit ratio that comes out in the Truenamer's favor if you're just trying to get extra duration on Reversed Word of Nurturing or whatever. Is there anything else out there that takes over your concentration and that ideally has a lower barrier to entry? Even if it won't specifically work with a Truenamer, it'd be interesting to see what else can be found. Since my guide doesn't really deal with anything from Dragon, I'd prefer to stick to non-Dragon stuff if possible.

Piggy Knowles
2018-03-11, 05:32 PM
I was recently looking to do the same thing, and came up pretty short. Extraordinary Concentration also doesn't work, because it specifically says "When concentrating to maintain a spell..." and unfortunately, by RAW, that doesn't cover SLAs. Same issue with things like Familiar Concentration.

The only effects that explicitly allow for concentration on SLAs in addition to spells, as far as I was able to find, are the Swift Concentration skill trick, the Spirit Shaman level 10 ability, and effects that give you extra actions (which doesn't strictly change the concentration required, but at least lets you do something else while you're at it).

EDIT: That being said, if this is just a general resource on concentrating, Familiar Concentration and the wu jen spell finding the center are very nice, albeit restricted to spells.

The Viscount
2018-03-11, 07:08 PM
Approaching the problem from the other end, a cancer mage's cancerous companion can use a spell or SLA limited times per day. Due to the wording it's less clear if you could task it with concentrating for you, but you could have it cast spells while you are concentrating.

It's also a bit hard to get but you can use coopt concentration if some generous transparency is at play, perhaps have your companion take it from you.

Venger
2018-03-11, 07:19 PM
If you have room for uncanny trickster, favorite trick will enable you to use swift concentration more than once an encounter.

Zaq
2018-03-11, 07:27 PM
I was recently looking to do the same thing, and came up pretty short. Extraordinary Concentration also doesn't work, because it specifically says "When concentrating to maintain a spell..." and unfortunately, by RAW, that doesn't cover SLAs. Same issue with things like Familiar Concentration.

The only effects that explicitly allow for concentration on SLAs in addition to spells, as far as I was able to find, are the Swift Concentration skill trick, the Spirit Shaman level 10 ability, and effects that give you extra actions (which doesn't strictly change the concentration required, but at least lets you do something else while you're at it).

EDIT: That being said, if this is just a general resource on concentrating, Familiar Concentration and the wu jen spell finding the center are very nice, albeit restricted to spells.

Hmm. Remind me which book Familiar Concentration is from?

I still don't feel like Swift Concentration actually works here, unless someone's got a rules quote that gets past the rule about not casting anything else while concentrating.


Approaching the problem from the other end, a cancer mage's cancerous companion can use a spell or SLA limited times per day. Due to the wording it's less clear if you could task it with concentrating for you, but you could have it cast spells while you are concentrating.

It's also a bit hard to get but you can use coopt concentration if some generous transparency is at play, perhaps have your companion take it from you.

In the specific context I'm looking at, the SLAs in question have verbal components, but the idea of a Cancer Mage's tumor using Truespeak is sufficiently messed up to perhaps be entertaining.


If you have room for uncanny trickster, favorite trick will enable you to use swift concentration more than once an encounter.

That counts for something, but like I said, I don't think Swift Concentration does the job. I'd welcome a counterargument, but I'm not convinced right now that it works. (Honestly, if we accept the position that the only limitation is the action cost rather than the "one at a time" clause, Quicken Utterance does most of the same job for us.)

Venger
2018-03-11, 07:37 PM
Hmm. Remind me which book Familiar Concentration is from?
lost empires of faerun. page 8



I still don't feel like Swift Concentration actually works here, unless someone's got a rules quote that gets past the rule about not casting anything else while concentrating.
swift concentration concentrates on a spell for you. what rule says you can't cast things while concentrating? usually the barrier is that it consumes your standard, but if you cast a normal concentration spell you could still cast spells that used immediate or swifts. this is just flipping it around

Zaq
2018-03-11, 07:42 PM
PHB pg. 176: "Concentration:

The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.

You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating."

(SRD link. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration))

Emphasis added.

I guess the rules don't technically say that you can't cast another SLA while concentrating, just another spell, but that's Air Bud territory at best.

Piggy Knowles
2018-03-11, 07:47 PM
swift concentration concentrates on a spell for you. what rule says you can't cast things while concentrating? usually the barrier is that it consumes your standard, but if you cast a normal concentration spell you could still cast spells that used immediate or swifts. this is just flipping it around

It’s in the description of concentration duration:

“You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating.”

You can’t cast a spell while maintaining concentration. I don’t see why that would stop you from using an SLA (assuming you have the actions to do so). If you DO rule that by spells they means SLAs as well, then presumably that would also imply that the word “spell” in spells like sonorous hum or finding the center also applies to SLAs.

Edit: too slow

Venger
2018-03-11, 07:57 PM
I guess the rules don't technically say that you can't cast another SLA while concentrating, just another spell, but that's Air Bud territory at best.

Not really. Spells and slas are meaningfully discrete things in terms of rules. If you have a sla, you can do it while swift concentration concentrates on your spell for you.

The Viscount
2018-03-11, 08:11 PM
Remembered there's also the Vestigial Twin unique trait from DMGII pg 160. Again this would be approaching the problem from the opposite end, since the list of options is decidedly narrow, but activating a SLA is on there so you can have your twin do other utterances while you concentrate on yours. The +5 LA is something of a bitter pill to swallow, but if buyoff is an option might be more palatable.

daremetoidareyo
2018-03-11, 09:38 PM
Synad can spend a power point 1 per day to get an extra round of concentration going for ya.

The Viscount
2018-03-11, 10:07 PM
Synad can spend a power point 1 per day to get an extra round of concentration going for ya.

Nice catch! I believe you will need to use it in conjunction with swift concentration for the proper effect.