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Arkhios
2018-03-11, 06:41 PM
Some time ago I had an idea to try and come up with fun, yet surprisingly functional combinations between the various Monastic Traditions and the other classes.

As a generic framework which I shouldn't slip away from, I decided that each one of these concepts would have to have (at least!) 14 levels of monk and the remaining levels in (only) one other class.

The intent is to use printed resources only!

Below are concepts I have come up with so far:


Half-elf (+1 Dex, +1 Wis, +2 Cha)
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 15
College of Lore or Whispers 6/Way of Shadows 14
+4 Dex, +3* Cha, Actor*

This concept plays around with the idea of creating a "Dark Sun Assassin" because of College of Whispers. Actor feat is purely because of this side of the coin. It helps you impersonate someone you're not to better approach your target unnoticed, and as a Bard, you'll definitely want better Charisma. Wisdom 16 is basically the same as if you had Mage Armor always active (AC 13+Dex). Unfortunately, Bards don't get Shadow Blade by default.

Of course, you could swap College of Whispers for Lore to create a "Soul Knife" instead of an "Assassin", by grabbing Shadow Blade via Additional Magical Secrets. Otherwise, I would keep the stats as they are.




Mountain Dwarf
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 8
Totem Warrior 3/Drunken Master 17
+4 Str, +4 Con

Basically a Brawler that hits particularly hard with fists. You won't get much higher than 17 AC with point-buy, but you'll have Dodge as a bonus action should you need it, which is definitely nice, but your primary gimmick is to add Rage bonus to damage on your Flurry of Blows, as often as you can, with unarmed strikes dealing 1d10+modifiers.
This concept would work a lot better if you rolled your stats and you rolled really, really well. At least good enough so that you can afford taking both Durable and Dwarven Fortitude feats.

That said, you'd probably want to pick Bear Totem Spirit, if for nothing else, then just for that resistance to nearly every damage type in the game.




Lightfoot Halfling (+2 Dex, +1 Cha)
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 9
Trickery Cleric 6/Shadowdancer 14
+3 Dex, +5 Wis

As a lightfoot halfling, you can attempt to hide behind another creature at least one size larger than you.
As a Shadowdancer, you can teleport within shadowy conditions, and, admittedly subject to your DM's approval, you might be able to teleport from a creature's shadow to another, if there's a reasonably bright source of light creating shadows.
As a Trickery Cleric, you can create a copy of yourself and accomplish a number of funny tricks with it and the darkness.


Fallen Aasimar (+2 Cha, +1 Str)
Str 9, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 16
Grave Cleric 6/Long Death Monk 14
+6 Dex, +1 Str, +1 Wis

This is just for those extra edgy purposes. Making you a really frightening participant in combat. Two ways of causing fear in your opponents can become handy, and this also makes you a fairly good defender thanks to Grave Domain.




Air/Earth/Fire/Water Genasi
Ability Scores: Special (See, Shtick)
Land Druid 3/Elementalist 17

Imho, instead of being Way of the Four Elements, the Monastic Tradition feels like "The Way of the Four Elements, choose one" :smallbiggrin:. If I were the DM, I would give the Elemental Attunement to every monk of the Four Elements as a bonus, and then let them choose two other elemental disciplines at 3rd level. If you're the DM, I'd suggest to do the same.

Now, onto the build itself. For race, Genasi make for a pretty flavorful race, although in this case I guess I'll have to make a stat/elemental discipline distribution for each subrace separately.
In lack of a better Druidic Circle, I chose to go with one of the Circle of Land's options. Fortunately, that choice can help you choose your Elemental Disciplines, so that's some synergy in there. Also, your choice of Genasi subrace can also help with your choice of the Land, and thus with the Elemental Disciplines.

Unlike most monks, Elementalists actually want to get Wisdom as high as possible, because many of their Elemental Disciplines rely on it.

Air Genasi
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 8
Arctic Circle
+5 Wis, +2 Dex, +1 Con
Elemental Disciplines:
3rd level: Fist of Unbroken Air or Rush of the Gale Spirits (Gust of Wind)
6th level: Clench of the North Wind (Hold Person)
11th level: Ride the Wind (Fly)
17th level: Breath of Winter (Cone of Cold)

Earth Genasi
Str 14, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 8
Mountain Circle
+3 Dex, +5 Wis
Elemental Disciplines:
3rd level: Fist of Unbroken Air or Fist of Four Thunders (Thunderwave)
6th level: Gong of the Summit (Shatter)
11th level: Eternal Mountain Defense (Stoneskin)
17th level: Wave of Rolling Earth (Wall of Stone)

Fire Genasi
Str 8, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 8
Desert Circle
+5 Wis, +3 Dex
Elemental Disciplines:
3rd level: Fangs of the Fire Snake or Sweeping Cinder Strike (Burning Hands)
6th level: Gong of the Summit (Shatter)
11th level: Flames of the Phoenix (Fireball)
17th level: River of Hungry Flame (Wall of Fire)

Water Genasi
Str 8, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 8
Coast Circle
+4 Wis, +3 Dex, +1 Con
Elemental Disciplines:
3rd level: Shape the Flowing River or Water Whip
6th level: Clench of the North Wind (Hold Person)
11th level: Mist Stance (Gaseous Form)
17th level: Breath of Winter (Cone of Cold)




Human (Martial Adept, +1 Dex, +1 Wis)
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
Battle Master 6/Kensei 14
+4 Dex, +4 Wis

The idea of this is to be self-reliant master of weapons, basically. You'll want to focus in using weapons instead of unarmed strikes with this build.


Human (Martial Adept, +1 Dex, +1 Wis)
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
Battle Master 6/Martial Artist 14
+4 Dex, +4 Wis

The Way of the Open Hand makes you the ultimate Martial Artist. This idea originated from another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553386-Monk-Fighter-multiclass-is-this-ok&p=22914578#post22914578) and as such I won't take full credit for it.




Human (+2* Dex, +1 Cha, Athlete*)
Str 13, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 14
Ancients/Devotion Paladin 6/Sun Soul 14 (or Ancients Paladin 7/Sun Soul 13; see "Shtick" below)
+4, +4 Cha, Medium Armor Master

The idea is to "sacrifice" Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense, and Unarmored Movement, and focus in using those ki points with Sun Soul powers and the defensive Ki powers from the core monk. As the Radiant Sun Bolt feature isn't tied to Martial Arts class feature - only the damage progression related to it - you still deal 1d4 (or more) + your Dexterity on your ranged attacks with it, which is why Dexterity should be at least 16.
Additionally, the "big" reason for this multiclass is, of course, Aura of Protection combined with Diamond Soul, making your saving throws outright ridiculous through and through.
You'll probably want to use the best medium armor available and a shield. Take rapier as your weapon and either Defense or Dueling fighting style.

Alternatively, if you prefer the oath of the ancients' flavor more, there's some great thematic synergy between Oath of the Ancients' tenets and the Way of the Sun Soul. Although, you might have to choose to sacrifice Diamond Soul for it. On the other hand, it might not be neccessary. Proficiency in every saving throw and Charisma as a bonus to each can also protect you reasonably well. Less so for your allies, of course. Decisions, Decisions!


Human (+2* Dex, +1 Wis, Athlete*)
Str 13, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 13
Avenger 4/Kensei 16
+4 Dex, +6 Wis

If you came to 5th edition from 4th edition and felt that the Oath of Vengeance being also called Avenger ruffled your feathers a bit too much, this might be your "salvation".
You can eschew Aura of Protection in order to focus more on the damage dealing, and pick one more ASI along the way to maximize your Unarmored Defense.
Take Dueling or Great Weapon Fighting style and use any martial melee weapon, whichever you prefer, but remember that Dueling Fighting Style doesn't work if you hold a versatile weapon in two hands.




Wood Elf (+2 Dex, +1 Wis)
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
Beast Master 6/Drunken Master 14 (or, as I'd call it: Drunken Beast Master)
+3* Dex, +4 Wis, Elven Accuracy* (F***ing elves and their feats, they're all over the place!)

Ranger/Monk is arguably THE combination, at least statwise, since both classes require the same minimum scores to multiclass to and from.
Wood Elf also makes for a really good race, because you get racial modifiers to those exact two ability scores. Plus, you are naturally swift, making you likely the fastest monk around.
Since the thread seems to be full of shadowdancers and kenseis, I'm starting to see red when even thinking about either of those. This time around, let's make another Drunk! There's definitely something funny about a Drunk elf. According to LotR (the Movie), Legolas could down more pints of ale than a dwarf and still not get drunk, so imagine how much or how hard liquor an elf had to drink to get drunk! Again, that's only according to LotR (the Movie). A more traditional elf, according to D&D lore, might well be the opposite! Either way, the idea of an elf Drunken Master sounds hilarious!

Which Ranger archetype (note, I'm using the word archetype, not Conclave, which means I'm not using the Revised Ranger!) fits best with Drunken Master? Why, Beast Master of course! As for animal companion, I'm going to suggest an Owl. You know how they say: "Drunk as a boiled owl..." (Drunk as a Skunk would've been funnier, but this goddamn game haven't introduced stats for skunks yet!!)
Now, hear me out. Since you are a Beast Master, the stats given to Owl as seen in either PHB or MM are largely irrelevant, especially regarding the bird's hit points, because they are LOW by default (1, to be exact). Your Owl is of a whole different breed: It starts with 12 hit points (instead of just 1, and they go up, to 24 ("Woo!" ...ok, it's not so bad, considering IT COULD'VE BEEN JUST ONE (1)!!!)

The Owl is actually pretty good companion. It has one of the best traits an animal companion can have: Flyby. Meaning it can swoop down, hit once, and fly away, never staying in melee for too long. It might even stay alive!
Also, the damage it deals is always the same amount. You don't have to worry about "which die do I have to roll for this one, I always forget". Just see if the flyby hits, and if it does, it deals X damage. That's it. Move on to next turn.

Also, after you reach 5th level (either monk or ranger), you can make one attack as well when your companion attacks. Now, technically, you should use your Action to make an Attack Action in order to use Flurry of Blows, but a reasonable DM could/should/would probably let you use your Flurry of Blows anyway, as long as you can make one attack yourself with an Action, regardless of which one of you made the attack rolls.




Hill Dwarf (+2 Con, +1 Wis)
Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 13
Swashbuckler 6/Drunken Master 14
+5 Dex, +2 Wis, +1 Cha

To me, in this epitomizes the "Dwarves are dyed-in-the-wool drunkards" with a jolly attitude. Also, this becomes a ridiculously mobile combatant. Being a dwarf only adds to the ridiculousness.


Drow (+2 Dex, +1 Cha)
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 12
Assassin 6/Shadowdancer 14
+3 Dex, +5 Wis

As requested, the "cop-out" option for a Monk of the Way of Shadows. But seriously, it's actually pretty good. Even if you couldn't see in magical darkness, Dimly lit conditions are fairly common in just about any dungeon and other indoor environments, so there's a good chance that an Assassin/Shadowdancer can find a lot of ways and situations to exploit their defining abilities. As a bonus, a dagger is also a monk weapon, so you can substitute your Martial Arts for the dagger's damage both in melee or at range, making your dagger attacks especially stingy (even though you could use a shortsword as well, a dagger is very common weapon of choice for assassins, at least in my experience, and very flavorful).

As a race, I decided to go with Drow, because there are already too many half-elves, elves, and humans in the thread. Plus drow seems to have the right kind of "attitude" for assassin's career. Their racial abilities are also pretty good for the job. Especially, because assassinations are probably best done in and from the shadows, rather than in the broad daylight, which hurts the drows' delicate eyes anyways. :smalltongue:




Half-elf (+1 Dex, +1 Wis, +2 Cha)
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 14
Shadow Sorcerer 6/Shadowdancer 14
+4 Dex, +3* Wis, Elven Accuracy*

This one needs to be started as a Sorcerer, because the whole concept relies on a spell that requires Concentration: Shadow Blade. You'll need high Constitution - and proficiency in that save, although 16 should be enough, so you can leave it there. Likewise, while Strength of the Grave relies on your Charisma, 14 should be enough with proficiency in the save. Your primary concern is, as always with Monk, to increase your Dexterity first to 20. Once you get there, focus on improving Wisdom.

Although you are Sorcerer and can learn Mage Armor, you probably should replace it with something else as soon as you get Wisdom 16, as it makes the spell redundant. Note: don't take the last sorcerer level until you have increased Wisdom to 16, in order to be able to replace spells by RAW.

Shadow Blade creates a weapon that counts as simple melee weapon with finesse, light, and thrown properties, and you're proficient with it. Because it's a simple weapon, it counts as a Monk weapon and so you can combine it with Flurry of Blows (although only during subsequent rounds after casting it). The damage is the key, here. It starts from 2d8 + your dexterity, because it's finesse and/or because you are a monk, so Dexterity should definitely be your highest ability score. As a sorcerer, you could - though questionable if optimal - consume your 1st and 3rd level spell slots to create sorcery points in order to create more 2nd level spell slots to cast the spell as often as possible, since you don't have an endless supply of 2nd level slots otherwise. Especially because you have only 6 sorcerer levels. With Charisma 14, you should probably choose spells that don't depend on spell saving throws, and with the idea in mind that you'll probably burn your 3rd level slots for sorcery points, stick to either 1st or 2nd level spells, only. Fortunately, there should be enough spells of those levels for you to choose.

Obviously subject to DM approval, you could ask if you can benefit from Eyes of the Dark when you cast Darkness using your Ki and Sorcery Points.




Half-elf (+1 Dex, +1 Con, +2 Cha)
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 16
Hexblade 6/Shadowdancer 14
+4 Dex, +1* Wis, +2 Cha, Elven Accuracy*

As a Monk, your primary means of damage is obviously melee, so Dexterity should be your primary concern, and Wisdom normally comes as a close second because it affects your AC. However, as a Warlock, you can take the Armor of Shadow Invocation (at-will Mage Armor) and the invocation to see even in magical darkness to get advantage on most of your attacks while inside the area of Darkness spell, and also impose disadvantage against you unless the target can also see in magical darkness (which I believe is rather rare), so you can afford starting with Wisdom 13, take the Elven Accuracy to aid you even more with advantages (and to improve Wisdom to 14), and to increase your Charisma to 18!

Shadowdancer is an obvious choice for you, and choose the Hexblade as your patron. Even though Hex Warrior does allow you to attack using Charisma, the way it's written, you don't have to, so you can still choose to use Dexterity instead. Hexblade's Curse makes your attacks (including Flurry of Blows!) incredibly potent. As a bonus, you can choose to learn Shield as one of your spells, granting you ridiculous defenses on demand.
As for your weapon, you should probably consider using the Arcane focus staff as it counts as a quarterstaff, which is a simple weapon and thus counts as a monk weapon.
Or, if you want to, you could do as the shadow sorcerer and cast Shadow Blade, but remember: you have limited amount of spell slots!




Fire Genasi
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 8
Evoker 4/Elementalist 16
+6 Dex, +3 Int, +3 Wis

Despite conflicting interests (Int vs. Wis), Evoker can actually work pretty well with the Way of Four Elements.
While Monk uses ki to cast elemental spells, they still count as casting an actual spell, and therefore, Evoker's Sculpt Spells feature works as well, as long as the spells are of Evocation school.



Feel free to ask anything, share your own concepts, or otherwise discuss upon this idea!

Citan
2018-03-12, 12:03 PM
What is Shadow Dancer ? Where does it come from ?

Anyways
Quick shares because Im on mobile and its very painful to write anything with.

Druid
Pair Land with Spike Growth or Plant Growth to become a one man crowd controller runnung around (choice of Land sub will depend on your taste : Mirror Image or Haste would work extremely well here).
Perfect for Open Hand (Flurry of Blows with free rider) or 4E (Fist of Open Air and Burning Hands) since Druid makes you free to move in Plant Growth (not spikes).

Variant : go Nature Druid 5-6 (option Rogue One Expertise), drop Dex to 14 and just be a slow-moving tower when you need to draw people and keep them in check : Plant Growth + Spirit Guardians + Shillelagh + Sentinel + Stunning Strike + FoB + Dodge + Thorns Whip + Command will be your tools when you need to keep things occupied.

There is also the Leader : 4 Battlemaster + 2 Rogue...
...
...
Yeah sorry mobile keyboard is driving me crazy. I ll share in detail later.

Just, in short, every class can produce interesting and functional dual class. : )

Arkhios
2018-03-12, 12:32 PM
What is Shadow Dancer ? Where does it come from ?

Take a bit closer read of Way of Shadow flavor text, and you'll see :P

I prefer calling the sub-classes with names that are built in. Monks of the Way of Shadow are also known as ninjas or shadowdancers, and of the two, the latter sounds better to me.

MaxWilson
2018-03-12, 12:45 PM
One idea that I've never gotten to try is a Paladin of Devotion 6/Monk of Long Death 12/Hexblade 2. The idea is that you tank Monk AC stats (just enough Dex and Wis to multi-class) in favor of heavy armor while leveraging the synergy between at-will fear and available bonus actions like paladin spells (Compelled Duel), while having just enough Warlock to do Agonizing Repelling Blast when you need a ranged attack. There's a surprising number of Monk abilities (including Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike!) that actually work just fine while you're wearing heavy armor.

It's still relatively MAD, but only at low levels--you need four 13s, and if you have 13/13/13/16/10/whatever you'll be just fine, which is not exactly an uncommon array to roll.

Level progression is Paladin 1, Hexblade 1-2, Long Death 1-6, Paladin 2-6, Long Death 7-12. You wind up getting the Paladin save bonus at the same level where the Monks normally get universal save proficiency + rerolls (Empty Body), only your bonus helps other PCs near you and the monk's doesn't.

I call it the Sith Lord because the resulting fighting style reminds me of Darth Vader's weird combination of mobility and clunkiness. Also note Vader's ability to Missile Catch blaster bolts.

You could substitute in another Paladin archetype but I happen to like the RP of Paladin of Devotion. In my grognard eyes those who keep the Oath of Devotion are the only ones that really deserve the name of "paladin." (I think of the others as just plain Idealists, e.g. an Idealist of Conquest, Idealist of Vengeance, Oathbreaker ex-Idealist, etc.)

LtPowers
2018-03-12, 12:51 PM
There's a surprising number of Monk abilities (including Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike!) that actually work just fine while you're wearing heavy armor.

Flurry of Blows "works", yes, but it only does 1+STR damage per hit.


Powers &8^]

Aett_Thorn
2018-03-12, 12:53 PM
Redemption Paladin/Drunken Master Monk.

Force the guy attacking you to hit his friend, and then make him take damage equal to the damage that he dealt.

Dudewithknives
2018-03-12, 01:06 PM
Inquisitive rogue 3 or 5 maybe,, open hand monk x with a short sword and an empty hand. Wood elf, take elven accuracy, rst are all stats.

Great wisdom, great dex, expertise in insight, open hand flurry for prone or stunning strike for advantage. If those don't work, just use insight check to sneak attack anyway.

Lots of breaking points for level split.

MaxWilson
2018-03-12, 01:14 PM
Flurry of Blows "works", yes, but it only does 1+STR damage per hit.

Powers &8^]

Since you're a Hexblade it does 1+CHA damage per hit, which will be significantly higher. (If you have Hex up, it will be 1+CHA+1d6 per hit; and I'm not even counting the Hexblade's special curse.)

Besides, you're doing it for Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike, so who cares what the damage is? That's still four chances to force a DC 13ish Con save against stunning (which you can follow up next turn with GWM attacks at advantage), and four chances at Smiting on a crit if you're into that kind of thing, or four chances at landing a Wrathful Smite that you cast previously. A Beholder has a better-than-even chance of making a single DC 13 Con save, but at level 13 you'll hit 2 or 3 times and your Stunning Strikes will have a DC of 14, giving you a net ~85% chance to stun it per round at a cost of 2 to 4 ki.

Most of the time your ki will be better spent on other things, but it's an interesting option to have if you are fighting a glass cannon like a vampire or a beholder.


Redemption Paladin/Drunken Master Monk.

Force the guy attacking you to hit his friend, and then make him take damage equal to the damage that he dealt.

I'm AFB, but don't both those powers cost a reaction?

Citan
2018-03-12, 03:42 PM
Take a bit closer read of Way of Shadow flavor text, and you'll see :P

I prefer calling the sub-classes with names that are built in. Monks of the Way of Shadow are also known as ninjas or shadowdancers, and of the two, the latter sounds better to me.
Dang, I just got powned. XD
Shame on me for memorizing all mechanics but no fluff. :smallredface:

Soo, anyways... ^^
I just missed a car from airport to town, so 30 mn to kill until the next (\o/).

Just enough to detail a few builds...

Fighter + Rogue
My " second-hand martial Warlord" or something like that: Open Hand or Long Death (I'd actually suggest Open Hand first, but Death's Fear as an action is nice too, if less synergizing) with Battlemaster 3-4 and Rogue 2-3 (Thief, Swashbuckler).
This can be played out several ways, depending on your taste.

You could pick the Open Hand, play it with just 20 WIS and 18 DEX and use Evasive Manoeuver paired with Rogue's free Dash as bonus action to try and stun a bad guy.
Or use a Trip Attack to instead spend your bonus action on Dodging.
Or give a Rogue/Pal ally an extra attack with Commander's Strike while still getting three other chances at Stunning.
You can also help your party get by with Healer feat (Thief), or take another die with Martial Adept...

Of course, if a DM would allow Spellless Ranger's Manoeuver die to stack with Battlemaster then obviously this would be better than Rogue. :)

Another way to go at it would be to just sacrifice Martial Arts and instead go plain Defender, going Long Death in armor and shield for extra tankiness (more resilience with lvl 11 ability, more party protection with Fear as an action), keeping Ki solely for Stuns and resilience, using bonus action from Rogue (in which case Healer feat is affordable).

Draconic / Divine Soul Sorcerer paired with Shadow Monk or Kensai.
Two other ways to play here.
First is to just pick Sorcerer for self-buff and keep low CHA.
Then Divine is, indeed, divine for you. Bless, Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Sanctuary, Aid, Haste, Fly, Spirit Guardians, Enhance Ability, Shield, Absorb Elements... Chances are you'll find among all these at least 6 spells that will help you.

Second is to bypass WIS completely and go on the offense with CHA.
Optimizer's reaction at this point is usually "OMG what is he saying is he brainless?" Or something like that.
But, a Heightened Hold Person or a quickened Slow may provide a much better result than Stunning Strike attempts (WIS vs CON and better effect), and you can use your Ki on other abilities instead.
A quickened Shocking Grasp too may be useful if you didn't pick Mobile.
And you can get pretty decent AC with just Mage Armor anyways because you'll obviously max DEX (or nearly) in that case.
I don't think it's better than pure Monk (actually I think it's not, because pure Monks are great and their capstone is severely underrated) but it does provide an original, refreshing kind of Monk. ;)

And I'll stop for now because I wouldn't want to miss the car (or I'd be stranded for the night ^^).

See you later all ;)

Maxilian
2018-03-12, 05:06 PM
I made some test with Monks and druids, and it works better than expected:

Tortle Sun Soul Monk X / Moon Druid 2

Concentrate on STR, while in your humanoid form, you will be a STR based character that goes into melee and gets personal, whenever you wildshape, you become a beast that shoots lasers (use anything with a good DEX, like a deer with 19 DEX and a really nice speed to maintain distance)
http://pbfcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/PBF033-Deer_Laser_Eye.jpg

Note: Tortle solve the AC problem while in Humanoid form (as you may need to drop your DEX)

Another version of this: (you slow down your progression but not enough that its a real problem, also it let you go for that lvl 4 ASI)

Druid 4 / Sun Soul Monk 5 (To empower Giant Poisonous Snake, instead of a weaker form like a Deer, give you swimming speed and it also gives you blind-sight)

Other options i have checked before:

Druid 4 / Monk Long Death 11 (To empower the Giant Poisonous snake, it already have a really nice DEX, so you can concentrate on working with WIS, in the animal form you can use all Long Death abilities and the lvl 11 monk ability let your animal form survive at high lvls even though it doesn't have that much HP -Note: Wildshape + lvl 11 monk its one of the only true forms to completely negate a certain amount of damage. (Regardless how much damage you take, you just fall to 1 HP if you spend 1 ki point)

Druid 8 / Sun Soul Monk 5 (to Empower the Flying Snake, have a really nice DEX, so just concentrate on WIS, good AC, low HP, but tiny and a lot of movement, pretty good if using Cover rules, as the size make it quite easy to get full cover)

Daithi
2018-03-12, 05:43 PM
I like the ninja monk-14 with anycircle druid-6 myself. No so much for the Wild Shape ability, but for the spells. In particular, these go well with the monk concept--

- Guidance (Cantrip)
- Pass Without Trace (2nd level)
- Enhance Ability (2nd level)
- Find Traps (2nd level)
- Locate Object (2nd level)
- Dispell Magic (3rd level)

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-12, 07:44 PM
Ive seen alot of good ideas, heres one I will throw in the mix. I think of him/her as Nightcrawler assassin

Shadar-Kai (when it comes out in Mordenkainens) Shadow monk 6/swashbuckler rogue 11/hexblade 3 (or use assassin rogue 11)

Shadar-kai and shadow monk get the teleport, swashbuckler allows you to use sneak attack on a single target and improved initiative (assassin gives you assisinate), and hexblade gives you some very nice spells for support

Its a bit MAD, as you need a decent dex, wis, and char.

The way I see it going, stealth up, summon your hexblade weapon, throw down hex. shadow step and stab
OR
Stealth in, cast silence on your summoned weapon, teleport in, stab stab
OR
Summon Shadow blade (2nd level spell), port in and stab stab with even more damage.

Hell you can even use whisper bard 3 instead of warlock and get the psychic blades feature to tack onto your critical sneak attacks

Arkhios
2018-03-13, 09:01 AM
Added a few more concepts in the OP, and added a "Shtick" -spoiler for each, if something about the general build felt weird.

DivisibleByZero
2018-03-13, 09:32 AM
Since you're a Hexblade it does 1+CHA damage per hit, which will be significantly higher. (If you have Hex up, it will be 1+CHA+1d6 per hit; and I'm not even counting the Hexblade's special curse.)

Are your unarmed strikes a weapon that you can touch?
Of course, the answer is no. So no, you won't be doing 1+Cha damage, because your unarmed strike is not a viable weapon for Hex Warrior.

HEX WARRIOR
At lst level, you acquire the training necessary to effectively
arm yourself for battle. You gain proficiency with
medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.
The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically
channel your will through a particular weapon.
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one
weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks
the two-handed property. When you attack with that
weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of
Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls

Can't make your unarmed strike a Pact Weapon, and can't use Hex Warrior with an unarmed strike.

Arkhios
2018-03-13, 09:39 AM
Are your unarmed strikes a weapon that you can touch?
Of course, the answer is no. So no, you won't be doing 1+Cha damage, because your unarmed strike is not a viable weapon for Hex Warrior.

-snip-

Can't make your unarmed strike a Pact Weapon, and can't use Hex Warrior with an unarmed strike.

I was about to point that out as well. Plus, contrary to what is in the earlier prints of Player's Handbook, according to a very old errata, unarmed strike isn't even supposed to be listed in the weapons table. What DBZ said above is correct. Unarmed Strike can't benefit from Hex Warrior.

Citan
2018-03-13, 09:56 AM
I was about to point that out as well. Plus, contrary to what is in the earlier prints of Player's Handbook, according to a very old errata, unarmed strike isn't even supposed to be listed in the weapons table. What DBZ said above is correct. Unarmed Strike can't benefit from Hex Warrior.
Which just stresses out the questionable lack of knuckles that could be made officially compatible with all Monk's unarmed strike related features.

Not anything that could not be resolved with a plain old simple houserule though. ;)

Arkhios
2018-03-13, 10:02 AM
Which just stresses out the questionable lack of knuckles that could be made officially compatible with all Monk's unarmed strike related features.

Not anything that could not be resolved with a plain old simple houserule though. ;)

I would say that a club is reasonably good base for knuckles to be reskinned from. Knuckles can drop off your hand if you don't have a firm grip of them, and tend to deal bludgeoning damage. And likely deal very little damage (so 1d4 is reasonable).

Kuulvheysoon
2018-03-13, 10:33 AM
Unfortunately, magical darkness won’t help as a backup plan for your first concept. Shadow step only works in a location that you can see. So unless you’re first concept dips shadow sorceror or warlock, no go.

Specter
2018-03-13, 11:19 AM
Monk/Paladin requires amazing stats to begin with. With a 14 CHA, you only get +2 to saves, and if you boost DEX and CHA there's no room for CON or WIS. Sad.

Arkhios
2018-03-13, 11:40 AM
Unfortunately, magical darkness won’t help as a backup plan for your first concept. Shadow step only works in a location that you can see. So unless you’re first concept dips shadow sorceror or warlock, no go.

Not even with Darkvision spell? Monks of the Way of Shadow are capable of casting that as well.


Monk/Paladin requires amazing stats to begin with. With a 14 CHA, you only get +2 to saves, and if you boost DEX and CHA there's no room for CON or WIS. Sad.

True. I would treat this thread as a way to emphasize suggestions for order of priority for each ability score for every concept. Obviously, some of them are more usable as is than the others, but none of them are outright horrible.

Lombra
2018-03-13, 11:44 AM
Barbarian 2/ monk x, all those attacks benefit greatly from reckless attack and rage bonus.

MonkeyIke
2018-03-13, 01:17 PM
I got very lucky with rolls when making a character with my group. Went with half orc my stats ended up being : Str 20, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 13.

DM had plans on having this group reach level 20 eventually and so far we are only level 5.

Planned build is some variation of: 11-14 Kensei Monk / 3 Barbarian (Bear Totem) / 2-3 Fighter (Samurai) / 1-3 Warlock (Hexblade/Blade Pact)

Hexblade for self buff, Hexblade's Curse, and Hex.
Fighter for action surge, and fighting spirit advantage
Kensei for Sharpen the Blade, Deft Strike, flurry of blows (DM considers unarmed strike as a melee weapon attack)
Barbarian for reckless attack advantage if fighting spirit is spent, and Rage resistance and damage once spell slots and concentration is spent.

However, only having 3 ASI's to work with is pretty horrible.

Citan
2018-03-13, 04:02 PM
Not even with Darkvision spell? Monks of the Way of Shadow are capable of casting that as well.



True. I would treat this thread as a way to emphasize suggestions for order of priority for each ability score for every concept. Obviously, some of them are more usable as is than the others, but none of them are outright horrible.
I'm afraid the only way for you to solo-enable Monk's free teleportation would be to grab Pyrotechnics from Sorcerer, along with a way to create a source of fire (best simple torch or Produce Flame with wood, otherwise Create bonfire) and prepare a bunch of slots to create the smoke effect, preferably in a Silence bubble because otherwise, it would be extremely not sneaky (well, the simple fact of throwing fire is not sneaky in the first place to be honest XD).

Kuulvheysoon
2018-03-13, 04:44 PM
Not even with Darkvision spell? Monks of the Way of Shadow are capable of casting that as well.

Can the darkvision spell see through magical darkness? The answer is unfortunately no.

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-13, 05:05 PM
I'm afraid the only way for you to solo-enable Monk's free teleportation would be to grab Pyrotechnics from Sorcerer, along with a way to create a source of fire (best simple torch or Produce Flame with wood, otherwise Create bonfire) and prepare a bunch of slots to create the smoke effect, preferably in a Silence bubble because otherwise, it would be extremely not sneaky (well, the simple fact of throwing fire is not sneaky in the first place to be honest XD).

I disagree. There are always shadows to use in the day time and at night it's considered dimly lit. You don't need fire for anything. I'm assuming you are using the fire to create shadows....? And a dip into warlock will allow you to see into your own darkness.

MaxWilson
2018-03-13, 05:36 PM
I disagree. There are always shadows to use in the day time and at night it's considered dimly lit. You don't need fire for anything. I'm assuming you are using the fire to create shadows....? And a dip into warlock will allow you to see into your own darkness.

Actually at night it's considered darkness, except that unusually bright full moons produce dim light, according to the PHB.

MrStabby
2018-03-13, 07:23 PM
I tried 4 elements monk/draconic sorcerer for a 1-shot. It was OK, but you really needed the high level to make it work. No feats just ASIs as you were totally MAD.

The ability to apply metamagic to monk spells was nice and the sorc level 6 damage ability was useful given the number of fireballs that got thrown.

It was a nice theme but I wouldn't want to play it on the way up to high levels without some homebrew support.



If I were to do sorcerer monk now I think divine soul or shadow sorcerer with shadow monk would be my preferred option: keep cha lowish and use spells that dont need saves or attack rolls.

Arkhios
2018-03-14, 12:18 AM
I would imagine that in a game called Dungeons and Dragons there would be a decent amount of dark places to explore, be it day or night. Open air encounters are quite rare in my experience, as the writers of adventures seem to love their maps! ;)

Citan
2018-03-14, 06:40 AM
I disagree. There are always shadows to use in the day time and at night it's considered dimly lit. 1. You don't need fire for anything. I'm assuming you are using the fire to create shadows....? 2. And a dip into warlock will allow you to see into your own darkness.
1. Nop: you can't always expect shadows in the day: and you should go and read spells before assuming. ;) Pyrotechnics use existing fire to create big clouds of obscuring smoke (basically Fog Cloud, except non-concentration) as one of three possible effects.

2. Two-level dip is awesome, but hurts in the long run (and adds some burdening MADness on a class that usually needs to boost three stats already). Not to be taken so lightly for that matter. ;)

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-15, 02:03 AM
1. Nop: you can't always expect shadows in the day: and you should go and read spells before assuming. ;) Pyrotechnics use existing fire to create big clouds of obscuring smoke (basically Fog Cloud, except non-concentration) as one of three possible effects
When have you been outside and not seen a shadow during the day, everything casts a shadow, including your opponent. The only limiting factor of the ability is that YOU have to be in "dim light or darkness" to use the ability. If you are caught in the open then it doesn't work. Your fog cloud idea negates it completely as the ability also says you can teleport to another spot that "you can see". You can't see through fog with RAW.


Two-level dip is awesome, but hurts in the long run (and adds some burdening MADness on a class that usually needs to boost three stats already). Not to be taken so lightly for that matter. ;)
A 2 level warlock dip only requires you to have 13 charisma, you aren't using the lock for spells, just choose ones that don't require a save. Being able to see through magical darkness to achieve the desired effects is more valuable than a level 20 capstone that you may not ever reach.

We are talking about functional monk multiclass options. You aren't going to get those capstone abilities anyway. I feel like you are arguing just because you can. You're original point of the ONLY way it can work is blah blah is moot because I proved that it's not the only way it can work.

Arkhios
2018-03-15, 02:06 AM
A 2 level warlock dip only requires you to have 13 charisma, you aren't using the lock for spells, just choose ones that don't require a save. Being able to see through magical darkness to achieve the desired effects is more valuable than a level 20 capstone that you may not ever reach.

We are talking about functional monk multiclass options. You aren't going to get those capstone abilities anyway. I feel like you are arguing just because you can. You're original point of the ONLY way it can work is blah blah is moot because I proved that it's not the only way it can work.

With standard point buy (27 points to be distributed), 13 charisma is 5 points which could've been spent elsewhere, and is thus quite big investment. Especially if you don't use that ability score for anything else than to qualify for multiclassing. For races that get a racial modifier in Charisma, this is obviously less of an impact, but then again, those races are perhaps a little sub-optimal for Monk in the first place.

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-15, 02:06 AM
Actually at night it's considered darkness, except that unusually bright full moons produce dim light, according to the PHB.

You are correct, I was assuming darkvision. But yes you wouldn't be able to see very far at night without darkvision

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-15, 02:11 AM
With standard point buy (27 points to be distributed), 13 charisma is 5 points which could've been spent elsewhere, and is thus quite big investment. Especially if you don't use that ability score for anything else than to qualify for multiclassing. For races that get a racial modifier in Charisma, this is obviously less of an impact, but then again, those races are perhaps a little sub-optimal for Monk in the first place.
If you use point buy then yes it's a bit mad. Not everyone plays that way, I personally use an array or rolling. It's definitely something you need to weigh the pros and cons. It's doable though. And it's a valid multiclass build, one that has some decent synergy, with good story telling qualities.

Arkhios
2018-03-15, 02:13 AM
If you use point buy then yes it's a bit mad. Not everyone plays that way, I personally use an array or rolling. It's definitely something you need to weigh the pros and cons. It's doable though. And it's a valid multiclass build, one that has some decent synergy, with good story telling qualities.

Be that as it may, as I said before, this thread still has value despite having to spread your 27 points thin, because the stat arrays can point you towards a "stat priority" if you roll your stats and wonder where to put those godly stats and in which order.

When I'm building something purely on theoretical base, I prefer using the point-buy as guideline. When I play, I do prefer rolling myself.

Citan
2018-03-15, 04:51 AM
When have you been outside and not seen a shadow during the day, everything casts a shadow, including your opponent. The only limiting factor of the ability is that YOU have to be in "dim light or darkness" to use the ability. If you are caught in the open then it doesn't work. Your fog cloud idea negates it completely as the ability also says you can teleport to another spot that "you can see". You can't see through fog with RAW.


A 2 level warlock dip only requires you to have 13 charisma, you aren't using the lock for spells, just choose ones that don't require a save. Being able to see through magical darkness to achieve the desired effects is more valuable than a level 20 capstone that you may not ever reach.

We are talking about functional monk multiclass options. You aren't going to get those capstone abilities anyway. I feel like you are arguing just because you can. You're original point of the ONLY way it can work is blah blah is moot because I proved that it's not the only way it can work.
You're right by RAW about Fog Cloud no argue on that, and it's a good thing you stress that. Most people I game in though (not that there are that many of them though ^) DM just based their ruling on darkvision = see through heavily obscured area up to 10 feet away so we could see "inside the border" but it's a houserule indeed.

Besides that, it's nice of you to illustrate that a Shadow Monk can teleport from one enemy to another provided those conditions are met, but you are using your full bonus action just for advantage on the next attack you make. It's pretty decent use a bonus action, but...
- If you have dipped 2 levels into Warlock, you have absolutely no reason (besides not annoying party) not to keep a stone with Darkness on you, which means with Devil's Sight you always have advantage on most enemies anyways.
- If you don't have dipped into Warlock, a single level of Rogue for Expertise in Athletics will give you a very high chance of proning a creature on the first try, meaning advantage on *all* (melee) attacks for you *and* your allies until the start of the next turn of the creature.
So from an optimization point of view, the teleport + advantage feature is just a way to cover some niche situations or content oneself, but usually not the tactic providing the best return on investment, at least as far as "being better on attacks" goes.

Now, it's also a great way to "jump" from one group of enemies from another when base speed would not be enough, but imo that's not a situation that would happen that much often considering you get 40 feet speed base early, at highest levels 60. So it's great for example when starting a fight (move + teleport = high chance of getting into reach of at least one creature) or when needing to rush towards an isolated archer / caster.

It also means you can more easily than other classes go too far away from your group and end in a perilous situation because others just can't come help you because they don't have the same mobility. ^^

As for the rest...
You're behaving like a child that feels attacked because someone says his toy is not the best toy, it's funny for me, sad for you.

Thanks for trying to learn me how the ropes of Monk / Warlock multiclass works, but I've playing some and theorycrafting dozens of others already.

We are talking about a MONK here.
The one class that has the most benefits getting high DEX and high WIS (in addition to keeping a decent WIS), the one class that gets great features nearly level, the one class that relies on a single resource pool for 90% of its abilities.

Warlock / Monk can be a great multiclass, but it's not, never, an immediate, obvious/brainless choice. The simple fact you need 13 CHA means you just cannot start with 16 in DEX, WIS and CON (for maximum optimization) or with 14 CON (avoid negative bonus). You'll have to make a choice, with the most obvious one being to sacrifice WIS because at least you get Mage Armor invocation for AC. It also means you'll crave for ASIs, especially the first one, and you'll never max both DEX and WIS.
That's why the primary archetype to pair with Warlock is Shadows, because it's the one that can afford the most to have a low WIS since only Stunning Strike depends on it, and the one that can afford the most a setback in Ki progression, since none of his ability is higher than 2 Ki and his archetype one are long-duration spells. Plus its 11th level ability is underwhelming.
But it does shoehorn you into a specific "shadow-striker" build, and you'll wait quite a number of additional sessions compared to a pure Monk to get Diamond Soul.

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-15, 12:13 PM
As for the rest...
You're behaving like a child that feels attacked because someone says his toy is not the best toy, it's funny for me, sad for you.

Thanks for trying to learn me how the ropes of Monk / Warlock multiclass works, but I've playing some and theorycrafting dozens of others already.

We are talking about a MONK here.
The one class that has the most benefits getting high DEX and high WIS (in addition to keeping a decent WIS), the one class that gets great features nearly level, the one class that relies on a single resource pool for 90% of its abilities.

Warlock / Monk can be a great multiclass, but it's not, never, an immediate, obvious/brainless choice. The simple fact you need 13 CHA means you just cannot start with 16 in DEX, WIS and CON (for maximum optimization) or with 14 CON (avoid negative bonus). You'll have to make a choice, with the most obvious one being to sacrifice WIS because at least you get Mage Armor invocation for AC. It also means you'll crave for ASIs, especially the first one, and you'll never max both DEX and WIS.
That's why the primary archetype to pair with Warlock is Shadows, because it's the one that can afford the most to have a low WIS since only Stunning Strike depends on it, and the one that can afford the most a setback in Ki progression, since none of his ability is higher than 2 Ki and his archetype one are long-duration spells. Plus its 11th level ability is underwhelming.
But it does shoehorn you into a specific "shadow-striker" build, and you'll wait quite a number of additional sessions compared to a pure Monk to get Diamond Soul.

Please go back and read. This whole post is about unique multiclass options for monks. Shadow monk is a niche subclass to begin with, adding a warlock dip to it just makes it beefier. I disagreed with your post about your way being the only way to take advantage of the at will teleport, which you just admitted only works because of a house rule.

No one is arguing against a single class monk benefits over multiclassing, and No one is saying it isn't MAD to MC into lock. Once again you are arguing just to argue. You are trying to prove a point that has no relevance. We obviously agree that the shadow monk works with a lock dip. That should be all there is to it.

So, to sum up. Shadow monk with a 2 or 3 level dip into warlock is a good multiclass option due to the synergy of the abilities. It is a niche class but one that can provide some fun and value to a game. It is a bit MAD so you will need to decide which abilities to prioritize unless you are rolling your stats and have some great rolls. Take advantage of devils sight and the darkness spell, spend ki points on abilities that dont require a save if you have low wisdom. Hex is your friend. Hexblades curse if even better. If you want a stealthy option and dont want to play rogue, take a look at the shadow monk. That sound about right?

Arkhios
2018-03-15, 04:48 PM
To get back on track and to get away from a situation that is dangerously close to spiraling out of control, here's one pretty fun concept, although it is, again, one of the MAD concepts as well.

Mountain Dwarf
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 8
Totem Warrior 3/Drunken Master 17
+4 Str, +4 Con

Basically a Brawler that hits particularly hard with fists. You won't get much higher than 17 AC with point-buy, but you'll have Dodge as a bonus action should you need it, which is definitely nice, but your primary gimmick is to add Rage bonus to damage on your Flurry of Blows, as often as you can, with unarmed strikes dealing 1d10+modifiers.
This concept would work a lot better if you rolled your stats and you rolled really, really well. At least good enough so that you can afford taking both Durable and Dwarven Fortitude feats.

That said, you'd probably want to pick Bear Totem Spirit, if for nothing else, then just for that resistance to nearly every damage type in the game.

Kuulvheysoon
2018-03-15, 05:14 PM
To get back on track and to get away from a situation that is dangerously close to spiraling out of control, here's one pretty fun concept, although it is, again, one of the MAD concepts as well.

Mountain Dwarf
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 8
Battlerager 6/Drunken Master 14
+4 Str, +3 Con*, Tavern Brawler*

Basically, you're Pwent Thibbledorf. Drunk Brawler in a spiked armor.

Unless I'm missing something, isn't this more of a utility build than an actual offensive build? I mean, you're dealing 1d4+Str+2 with your Attack action and only 1d4+Str+2 with your bonus action attack (and only while raging, which is 4 times a day), and none of that counts as magical (unless your DM houserules magical spiked armor to also count as a magical weapon).

Arkhios
2018-03-15, 05:19 PM
Unless I'm missing something, isn't this more of a utility build than an actual offensive build? I mean, you're dealing 1d4+Str+2 with your Attack action and only 1d4+Str+2 with your bonus action attack (and only while raging, which is 4 times a day), and none of that counts as magical (unless your DM houserules magical spiked armor to also count as a magical weapon).

I realized that as well and I re-iterated the concept. See my edit of that post.

That said, you could still use Flurry of Blows with that bonus action, dealing the same 1d4+Str+2, twice instead of just once. Unarmed Strikes still benefit from Ki-Empowered Strikes, even if you wore armor, so your unarmed strikes would at least be magical. Admittedly, the Spiked Armor would be mostly flavor only, and could pretty much be replaced with a better medium armor (such as half-plate), and simply cherry-picking the constantly refreshing temporary hit points from Battlerager's 6th level feature.

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-17, 07:07 PM
To get back on track and to get away from a situation that is dangerously close to spiraling out of control, here's one pretty fun concept, although it is, again, one of the MAD concepts as well.

Mountain Dwarf
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 8
Totem Warrior 3/Drunken Master 17
+4 Str, +4 Con

Basically a Brawler that hits particularly hard with fists. You won't get much higher than 17 AC with point-buy, but you'll have Dodge as a bonus action should you need it, which is definitely nice, but your primary gimmick is to add Rage bonus to damage on your Flurry of Blows, as often as you can, with unarmed strikes dealing 1d10+modifiers.
This concept would work a lot better if you rolled your stats and you rolled really, really well. At least good enough so that you can afford taking both Durable and Dwarven Fortitude feats.

That said, you'd probably want to pick Bear Totem Spirit, if for nothing else, then just for that resistance to nearly every damage type in the game.


I love Pwent! I seriously wanted to make him in a game i played, but I really didnt find the Battlerager strong enough, that being said, it does make a very cool build. Throw a little dip into fighter/brute in there and you can get some decent damage and utility. Or just swap Brute for the Barbarian.

ToastyTobasco
2018-03-17, 07:32 PM
Throwing a couple ideas as I dont think they have been mentioned:

Dex Paladin/Monk (Mink of Vengance/Conquest?)

Rogue/Monk (Assassin/Shadow, Drunk/swash?)

Fighter/ Monk (Battlemaster/Any monk)

Ups, downs? Try vs. why would you ever?

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-17, 07:38 PM
Another build Ive been wanting to make is a spear fighter build, sort of reminiscent of "Lancer" from the Fate series.

I would say i would build it like....Let me know if you would do differently, im actually really interested in this build

Human Variant (Dex, Wis)
Str 10, Dex 15(16), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13(14), Cha 13
Kensei Monk 14/Fighter Battle Master 6
ASI x5
Dex+4, Wis+4, Feat

Fighter gives you the superiority dice and fighting style, Great Weapon Fighting and Dueling. Variant Human feat for Spear Mastery.

A cool variant to this build would be Kensei 17/Hexblade 3 and be able to summon your spear to you, it also works if you want to use a longbow instead of spear, but I cant remember the requirements for improved pact weapon.

Arkhios
2018-03-18, 02:15 AM
Throwing a couple ideas as I dont think they have been mentioned:

1) Dex Paladin/Monk (Mink of Vengance/Conquest?)

2) Rogue/Monk (Assassin/Shadow, Drunk/swash?)

3) Fighter/ Monk (Battlemaster/Any monk)


Not to be a jerk, but did you read the first post at all?
Because, there are:
1) Dex Paladin/Monk: Avenger*/Kensei (Oath of Vengeance*).

2) Rogue/Monk: Drunk/Swash as well (Dwarf for sh!ts and giggles). Although, I left out Assassin/Shadow, so there's that, at least.

3) Two different iterations of Battlemaster/Monks: Kensei and "Martial Artist" are both monks. (Martial Artist = Open Hand Monk)

ToastyTobasco
2018-03-18, 09:04 AM
Not to be a jerk, but did you read the first post at all?
Because, there are:
1) Dex Paladin/Monk: Avenger*/Kensei (Oath of Vengeance*).

2) Rogue/Monk: Drunk/Swash as well (Dwarf for sh!ts and giggles). Although, I left out Assassin/Shadow, so there's that, at least.

3) Two different iterations of Battlemaster/Monks: Kensei and "Martial Artist" are both monks. (Martial Artist = Open Hand Monk)

Whoops. Really sorry about that. The format of the first post threw me off. Was reading on mobile on a short break at work. Love the Dwarf Drunk.

Jakinbandw
2018-03-18, 11:23 AM
Warlock / Monk can be a great multiclass, but it's not, never, an immediate, obvious/brainless choice. The simple fact you need 13 CHA means you just cannot start with 16 in DEX, WIS and CON (for maximum optimization) or with 14 CON (avoid negative bonus). You'll have to make a choice, with the most obvious one being to sacrifice WIS because at least you get Mage Armor invocation for AC. It also means you'll crave for ASIs, especially the first one, and you'll never max both DEX and WIS.


You could go half elf and have something like:
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 16
Cha: 14

Not quite 14 con, but it's not too bad. And you have enough ASIs to take you to 20 in Dex and wis.

Arkhios
2018-03-18, 11:26 AM
Whoops. Really sorry about that. The format of the first post threw me off. Was reading on mobile on a short break at work. Love the Dwarf Drunk.

No problem, that's definitely understandable.

I suppose the first post could be rearranged to be more clear. I'll see what I can do.

And sorry if I sounded bitter or something. Wasn't my intention. :)


You could go half elf and have something like:
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 16
Cha: 14

Not quite 14 con, but it's not too bad. And you have enough ASIs to take you to 20 in Dex and wis.

Ooh, that's nice indeed. Mind if I add that to the OP?

I'll also add the requested Assassin/Shadowdancer.

Jakinbandw
2018-03-18, 03:57 PM
Ooh, that's nice indeed. Mind if I add that to the OP?

I'll also add the requested Assassin/Shadowdancer.

Go ahead. :)

ZorroGames
2018-03-18, 07:29 PM
To get back on track and to get away from a situation that is dangerously close to spiraling out of control, here's one pretty fun concept, although it is, again, one of the MAD concepts as well.

Mountain Dwarf
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 8
Totem Warrior 3/Drunken Master 17
+4 Str, +4 Con

Basically a Brawler that hits particularly hard with fists. You won't get much higher than 17 AC with point-buy, but you'll have Dodge as a bonus action should you need it, which is definitely nice, but your primary gimmick is to add Rage bonus to damage on your Flurry of Blows, as often as you can, with unarmed strikes dealing 1d10+modifiers.
This concept would work a lot better if you rolled your stats and you rolled really, really well. At least good enough so that you can afford taking both Durable and Dwarven Fortitude feats.

That said, you'd probably want to pick Bear Totem Spirit, if for nothing else, then just for that resistance to nearly every damage type in the game.


I love any build with Mountain Dwarf but my first ever 5e character was an OH Mountain Dwarf Monk! Just now trying MCing using PeteNutButter’s guide to Ultimate Optimizer’s Multiclassing Guide so will keep this build in mind.

Arkhios
2018-03-19, 12:48 AM
I love any build with Mountain Dwarf but my first ever 5e character was an OH Mountain Dwarf Monk! Just now trying MCing using PeteNutButter’s guide to Ultimate Optimizer’s Multiclassing Guide so will keep this build in mind.

Glad to hear that my thread has value even when compared to more crunchy optimizer's guides :P

To be fair, I would say my approach is a bit more "balanced" between flavor and function, rather than pure optimization which often ignores potential flavor conflicts.

That out of the way, I made my own conclusions about a Half-elf warlock/monk*, and added it to the OP, which I have also greatly improved in format (I hope!)

*I think I may have created a monster! Against a common belief, this one can actually be brokenly good!


Another build Ive been wanting to make is a spear fighter build, sort of reminiscent of "Lancer" from the Fate series.

I would say i would build it like....Let me know if you would do differently, im actually really interested in this build

Human Variant (Dex, Wis)
Str 10, Dex 15(16), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13(14), Cha 13
Kensei Monk 14/Fighter Battle Master 6
ASI x5
Dex+4, Wis+4, Feat

Fighter gives you the superiority dice and fighting style, Great Weapon Fighting and Dueling. Variant Human feat for Spear Mastery.

A cool variant to this build would be Kensei 17/Hexblade 3 and be able to summon your spear to you, it also works if you want to use a longbow instead of spear, but I cant remember the requirements for improved pact weapon.

Those are both decent builds. Another alternative - kind of like a mix between the two builds you came up with - is to make an Eldritch Knight 3/Kensei 17. You get to bond with (and then, summon) up to 2 weapons (spear and longbow) which also may count as your monk weapons because of being kensei, and since you really don't need those spell slots for anything else than maybe utility (such as Shield and Find Familiar), you could focus in getting your monk level to 17 and allow each of your monk weapons to deal 1d10 damage.
Also, with EK you wouldn't need Cha 13 (nor Int at all, for that matter).

Your stats could be like this: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8.
If you're allowed to UA resources, you could indeed take Spear Mastery as your feat. But you could also take Mariner fighting style, to get a +1 bonus to AC when you're not wearing heavy armor or shield (which, as a monk, you definitely won't!)

Arkhios
2018-03-19, 09:44 AM
Normally, I wouldn't double post, but this time I'm going to make an exception, as I'd like to hear, if the OP is easier to read, as well as hear comments about the various new builds I came up with.

For example, something as controversial as Evoker/Elementalist! :smalltongue:

scoutsdoitbettr
2018-03-20, 11:08 PM
Those are both decent builds. Another alternative - kind of like a mix between the two builds you came up with - is to make an Eldritch Knight 3/Kensei 17. You get to bond with (and then, summon) up to 2 weapons (spear and longbow) which also may count as your monk weapons because of being kensei, and since you really don't need those spell slots for anything else than maybe utility (such as Shield and Find Familiar), you could focus in getting your monk level to 17 and allow each of your monk weapons to deal 1d10 damage.
Also, with EK you wouldn't need Cha 13 (nor Int at all, for that matter).

Your stats could be like this: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8.
If you're allowed to UA resources, you could indeed take Spear Mastery as your feat. But you could also take Mariner fighting style, to get a +1 bonus to AC when you're not wearing heavy armor or shield (which, as a monk, you definitely won't!)

I like this, i completely forgot that EK got to summon their weapon. I need to look into this more. Im playing a bardlock right now but this may be my backup character.

Citan
2018-03-22, 10:42 AM
Quick share of a concept that just makes Monk much much better for a small dip.


Whatever race
Moon Druid 2 / Way of 4 Elements 18 (late build)
Moon Druid 2 / Way of Shadows 18 (ealy build)
+2 Dex, +3* WIS, Observant*

Whatever race, start like a usual Monk, but raise ASI/Feats in a way that gets you Observant before level 8 and 18 WIS before level 16.
This concept plays around with the idea of creating an "Innocent Spy" that can just roams around freely and learn everything. You could even push the idea further and grab the Keen Memory feat to add insult to injury.

Basic idea?
At low level, you can already use the Wild Shape to get some THP instead of using Ki on Dodge, and gain some minor but useful abilities. You are already much better at scouting than a normal Monk.
You also get some self-healing and buffs to help over a day, or decent AOE for the time.

At mid-level (5-10), you are better than a Rogue simply because being morphed into an animal that fits into the environment means you don't necessarily need to sneak around, people may just notice but ignore you.
Shadow is obviously better here because he has spells that make him even better at sneaking.
Wild Shape is not good only for this though: transforming as an animal can instantly boost your speed much higher than normally, meaning every positioning related tactic you use gets improved: you could carry several friends to safety, or a pal into the thick, or grapple an enemy who thought himself safe in the backline right besides your party to gang upon...

At third tier, it's a wash: Shadow's spells are still very useful for many situations in which just going around as an animal won't cut it. But 4E gets Fly, which opens a great array of alternative paths, especially when paired with a tiny form (of course, you'd have to be careful on how to use it: whether pretty or not, a flying cat is bound to raise suspicion whatever happens). So Shadow would probably be the best bet on that spying aspect unless you have some idea of what to expect in your campaign. Now, 4E has other arguments: in fight, whenever sneaking was an option, you could raise some big diversions or prepare a nasty ambush opener for when your friends come at the door.

More importantly, both case, you get ability to *understand all -ALL- spoken languages*. How is that for spying, especially paired with Observant which gives you lip-reading?

Finally, at highest levels, both are crankinly good at spying, except 4E better: not only can you stack, like 4E, Empty Body on a Wild Shape, but 4E can even stack Fly onto it.
So you can be, for a full minute/10/60 depending on actual stack, an invisible flying creature with 10+40+30+60 speed (you have 'walking' creatures with at least 40 feet speed in every CR and size, 10 from Longstrider, 30 from Monk feature, and 60 from Fly).

What good is it for? Hell don't ask me. :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:
But wouldn't it be extremely fun to play with from start to finish? :smallwink:


Truth is, the best way to go is actually with Open Hand for that "infiltration" thing: it means that, unless you are antagonizing people really powerful enough to get extremely good defenses everywhere they are, you have some ways to ambush and Quiver Palming people. and leave again totally undetected.
If you can get someone in your party to make you indectetable to magic, even better.

Technically you have other ways to reach the same result with other kind of multiclass (heavily gearing towards a Divine Soul Sorcerer based tri-class with a bit of Rogue or Warlock too, ).
But this builds keep progression derailment minimal, giving you interesting, worthy for the trade (imo) tools that keep synergizing with your Monk features. All for a minimal resource cost (since Ki and Wild Shape recharge on a short rest).