Bearbarian for AL, what’s the best way to go about it?

[prototype00]

So I’ve heard about the Bearbarian build for quite a while, and I wanted to experience its pure tankiness for myself (in Adventurers League). But I had a couple of questions: (ta in advance for your kind answers)

1. Race? I’m told that Firbolgs and Ghostwise Halflings are good.

2. I’m guessing Con and Wis are the most important stats but anything else I should pay attention to?

3. AL allows for a bit of rebuilding up to 5th level, I might use the opportunity to bypass a bit of the growing pains the build might have..., in which case should I build straight druid or Barbarian until I hit level 3? (The first level the combo plays nicely)

4. Any other advice, views?

Thanks all!

[prototype00]

Ah, for clarity, this is a Moon Druid/ Bear Totem Barbarian multiclass, for resistance and animal HP.

Hmm, vHuman is probably good too, if only for Prodigy (Athletics)

Do animals have unarmed strikes?

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

1. Race? I’m told that Firbolgs and Ghostwise Halflings are good. Hmm, vHuman is probably good too, if only for Prodigy (Athletics)

Firbolgs would be great basically how Goliath's are to barbarians, that's how firbolgs seem to be to druids. Ghostwise is amazing for it's telepathy while in beast form. Keeping your +1 book available; human variant is nice as it's the only phb that can start with 17 wisdom. Lack of darkvision is a pain though.

2. I’m guessing Con and Wis are the most important stats but anything else I should pay attention to?

No matter how much you think you'll be in wildshape you will end up outside of it at some point, you will want strength and Dex to be decent, if you take Shillelagh you can skip strength... Except for multiclassing requirements.

3. AL allows for a bit of rebuilding up to 5th level, I might use the opportunity to bypass a bit of the growing pains the build might have..., in which case should I build straight druid or Barbarian until I hit level 3? (The first level the combo plays nicely)

Level two moon druids are considered over powered
For a reason.

4. Do animals have unarmed strikes?

Yes and no. They can make an unarmed strike the same way a human could but their actual attacks are considered natural weapons.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/21/how-do-wild-shape-attacks-interact-with-unarmed-strikes/

5. Any other advice, views?

I'd only take a 2 level dip into druid personally which removes the need for higher then a 13 in wisdom. If you go human I'd skip prodigy and go with sentinel or res Con/Wis. Grab a ranged attack cantrip.

[prototype00]

1. Race? I’m told that Firbolgs and Ghostwise Halflings are good. Hmm, vHuman is probably good too, if only for Prodigy (Athletics)

Firbolgs would be great basically how Goliath's are to barbarians, that's how firbolgs seem to be to druids. Ghostwise is amazing for it's telepathy while in beast form. Keeping your +1 book available; human variant is nice as it's the only phb that can start with 17 wisdom. Lack of darkvision is a pain though.

2. I’m guessing Con and Wis are the most important stats but anything else I should pay attention to?

No matter how much you think you'll be in wildshape you will end up outside of it at some point, you will want strength and Dex to be decent, if you take Shillelagh you can skip strength... Except for multiclassing requirements.

3. AL allows for a bit of rebuilding up to 5th level, I might use the opportunity to bypass a bit of the growing pains the build might have..., in which case should I build straight druid or Barbarian until I hit level 3? (The first level the combo plays nicely)

Level two moon druids are considered over powered
For a reason.

4. Do animals have unarmed strikes?

Yes and no. They can make an unarmed strike the same way a human could but their actual attacks are considered natural weapons.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/21/how-do-wild-shape-attacks-interact-with-unarmed-strikes/

5. Any other advice, views?

I'd only take a 2 level dip into druid personally which removes the need for higher then a 13 in wisdom. If you go human I'd skip prodigy and go with sentinel or res Con/Wis. Grab a ranged attack cantrip.

Hmm, so Firbolg 2 levels of Druid to start off with, then retrain to start with 1 level of Barbarian (for the constitution proficienciency)? Then Barbarian to 3 to get that nice Bear Totem bonus?

I'm inclined to go more Druid levels, just for the better shapes (though it will take a while, hmm).

prototype00

[DnDegenerates]

My pal has a Goblin Barbarian that's pretty amazing actually.

He dumped strength, then got a belt of hill Giants str (21) around level 5. This saved him feats, and allowed him to Max Dex then con quickly for Max armor class.

He also has bracers of defense and cloak of displacement. He uses a Longsword as a greatsword, but also has a +2 shield now in a pinch.

Insane health.
22-26ac
Max str, Dex, and con.
Permanent disadvantage to get hit.
Bear totem, so damage against him is halved almost always.

We have been very fortunate to have him at a couple of epics.

On a side note, our other melee character is an ancients paladin with shield mastery and protection fighting style. He grants everyone around him super buffs, and shoves people to the ground while negating damage on himself. He also has a a cloak of displacement, +2 shield, and bracers of defense. As well as a flame tongue. Together they are stupidly tanky, as well as a good meaty front line.

[DnDegenerates]

My pal has a Goblin Barbarian that's pretty amazing actually.

He dumped strength, then got a belt of hill Giants str (21) around level 5. This saved him feats, and allowed him to Max Dex then con quickly for Max armor class.

He also has bracers of defense and cloak of displacement. He uses a Longsword as a greatsword, but also has a +2 shield now in a pinch.

Insane health.
22-26ac
Max str, Dex, and con.
Permanent disadvantage to get hit.
Bear totem, so damage against him is halved almost always.

We have been very fortunate to have him at a couple of epics.

On a side note, our other melee character is an ancients paladin with shield mastery and protection fighting style. He grants everyone around him super buffs, and shoves people to the ground while negating damage on himself. He also has a a cloak of displacement, +2 shield, and bracers of defense. As well as a flame tongue. Together they are stupidly tanky, as well as a good meaty front line.


Doh sorry I derped and skimmed the OP...

Didn't get the druid barbarian part.

So sorry to just ramble irrelevant stuff.

[kardar233]

Just finished a campaign as a Moon Druid, so here are my thoughts:

I would take Moon Druid 2 and then immediately go straight for Barbarian 5, returning to Druid after that. Extra Attack makes a lot of non-Multiattack forms suddenly viable and makes some forms that don’t have Multiattack amazing. Furthermore, once you hit Druid 4, you get access to several nice forms that are limited by awful land speed, which your Fast Movement counters.

Your preferred wildshape form will be Brown Bear at first, as it gets two attacks to make Reckless. Its awful AC doesn’t matter to you because you have Unarmoured Defense and are also Recklessly Attacking. Giant Hyena is useful against hordes because it gets its rampage attack and is a lot tougher. Giant Spider gives useful mobility (you can carry Small people up walls) and Giant Wolf Spider makes you very sneaky.

Once you hit Barbarian 5, your favourite forms will change, and they become radically different than most Moon Druids’. Your default will probably be Dire Wolf, as you can make two attacks with its bite, both forcing a save against prone. It’s tougher than the Brown Bear, and if there’s another frontliner on your team you can get free Advantage without the defensive problems of Reckless. Giant Hyena will become a nice choice as its bite is as strong as the Dire Wolf’s and you’ll get a chance at a third one if you can make a kill. You’ll get better use out of the Pouncers (Lion and Tiger) than most Druids will because you get two chances to make the Pounce attack happen, and anything that will get you offensive use out of your bonus action is nice. One out-of-the-ordinary form that you might look for is the Female Steeder from Out of the Abyss; it’s fast, sneaky, climby, and its poison bite will boost your average damage fairly high. Failing that, the Giant Spider has the same bite, which has a better average damage than most of your forms.

Once you hit Druid 4, a couple more interesting forms show up. Giant Toad’s Swallow ability is interesting, if not necessarily amazing, though you can swallow in a single round which may be handy. The big winner here is Giant Octopus. It can grapple and restrain with a great DC at a distance of 15ft; they won’t even be able to try to hit you if you grapple them at that, and even if they break out they’ve already used their action. You get two attacks so you have two chances to stick it, and you can be Reckless to make it all but certain. On top of that, it’s also the toughest form at this level by a large margin, with a whopping 52 hit points. The Octopus’ biggest problems are its requirement to breathe water (just have a bucket nearby and dunk your octo-head in every hour) and its terrible land speed, which is taken from ‘awful’ to ‘a bit on the slow side’ by your Fast Movement. Plus, you’re an octopus. Which is awesome.

At Druid 6, the CR 2 forms open up. Damage-wise, the best options here are the Rhinoceros/Aurochs. If you can line up the charge, you’ll be hitting with two attacks of 4d8+5+Rage bonus, for something in the region of 50 damage in a single round, plus two checks against prone. Rhino and Aurochs are offensively interchangeable here; the Aurochs will have a better AC (from Unarmoured Defense) while the Rhino has seven more hit points. Other notable forms are the Allosaurus, a solid slugger due to its powerful bite, decent AC and large hit point pool; and the Giant Constrictor Snake, also solid in a slugging match but with the grapple/restrain capability of the Giant Octopus, and its blindsight is very useful (grapple a Medusa without saving, let your party attack with their eyes shut and no disadvantage). The Giant Elk is also a versatile choice: its 10ft reach on its ram attack means it can usually charge, make your two attacks and exit range without provoking, allowing a second charge next turn. This gives it consistent damage that’s better than the Allosaur plus chances to knock prone. Also, if you have a grappler (or Conquest Paladin) around to keep a prone enemy down, you can trample twice for damage nearly as good as the Rhino’s spike damage.

Druid forms past CR 2 are a little thin on the ground. Very thin in the air, for that matter; no flying forms to be found. Generally, pretty trim. At CR 3 you get access to the Ankylosaurus and Giant Snapping Turtle, which are pretty much of a kind; the turtle has a higher AC and a few more HP for which it loses reach and knock-Prone on its attack. Giant Scorpion has a terrible to-hit, but if you compensate with Reckless you can get some really solid damage with two stinger attacks. Killer Whale has a bucket of health and a solid attack for when you’re underwater. Past that, it’s mostly just a couple variations of large and stompy.

I found that past CR 8 or so my beast forms weren’t so useful, but your Rage and Reckless Attacks will probably counteract that. Your to-hit will likely be lower than your humaniform counterparts (+6-7 to hit from animal form compared to +8-9 from proficiency, stat, magic weapon) but your toughness will be greatly superior. It helps that your human form is not exactly a pushover either, as long as you have decent Strength and Con.

One thing to note is that you’ll probably have a chance at magical weapon before 8th level, when your Druid magic attacks kick in. Be sure to grab one so you can hurt werewolves and elementals and such; you’ll just have to be not-a-bear for a while.

Because you don’t get any more wildshape uses until Druid 20, I would probably go until Druid 7-9 before sticking to Barbarian for the rest of my career. Druid 6 is a must for CR 2 forms and magical attacks, and I would almost certainly Druid 7 for Polymorph, a spell that’s worth not Raging. Druid 8 gets you an ASI (or more likely a feat) and another Polymorph casting, and Druid 9 gets you the fairly snazzy CR 3 forms, along with Reincarnate, Greater Restoration and a 5th level slot that will probably go to casting Polymorph.

Because you’re not going to be spending much time casting or in human form, your stats are going to be pretty free. It’s good to have a solid Strength and Con for the times you’re not a bear (usually when there’s a lot of combat between short rests), and a good Wis score is good to shore up that most important of saves. Other than that, stat as you wish.

ASIs should probably all be feats; you don’t get much benefit from them as is. Your first one (from Barbarian 4) should probably be Sentinel, to improve your ability to lock down enemies. Being unkillable loses some of its lustre when the rest of your party is dead. You might be able to get away without it by using lockdown forms like Giant Octopus which come with their own lockdown, but you might not want to get tied down to that, and the ability to hit people who dare to attack anyone else is nice. After that, you have some interesting options: if you’re starting Barbarian, Resilient: Wis is good to boost that vital save; Mobile is useful for lining up charges; and Alert is an amazing feat to have in any case.

You’ll be raging and in beast form most of the time, so your Druid spells don’t matter that much. However, there are a couple of non-Concentration spells that you can toss down at the beginning of combat, and you can have some out of combat utility as well. You should definitely get the Guidance cantrip for its amazing utility. Apart from that, Longstrider is nice, and Goodberries can be used as out-of-combat healing or even as in-combat healing if you cast them ahead of time (preferably the night before, using excess spell slots). Pass Without Trace is an amazing spell that doesn’t need in-combat Concentration, and Plant Growth is incredible non-Concentration battlefield control.

I hope this is helpful. Support the right to bear arms!

https://goo.gl/images/jFBRmr

[HMS Invincible]

Alternate strategy, go barbarian 1/druid X. If you start earlier than 2, go druid 2. Otherwise, go Barb first for the extra hp, and then Max out druid. You're only 1 level behind full druid, but get unarmored defense, rage damage, and resistance to b/p/s. Not as good as a 3 level dip or 5, but you're pretty damn strong. Then you can be a caste full caster while always ready to unleash the bear rage.

[prototype00]

Whoa! Thanks for all the advice. I worry that springing for Extra Attack on the Bearbarian will delay all those nifty animal shapes, but it certainly does make a big difference for those high Damage single attack forms. (Also grappling, which is boss as a large animal).

On the other hand one level of Barbarian is also worth thinking about, for the stated reasons, I fear that losing Reckless Attack and that third Rage makes the combat prowess somewhat weaker, but I am considering it.

[kardar233]

I’ll say that as a straight-classed Moon Druid I never felt that my wild shapes were a viable option for being a frontline fighter. Even at 2nd level where they’re supposed to be amazingly powerful, I often got smashed out of my wildshape due to my low AC, especially against groups. I think the Rage resistance is really important, and Reckless Attack buttresses your weak to-hits.

Additionally, I don’t feel the CR 2 creatures are good enough relative to the CR 1s to make rushing for Druid 6 worth it, if you don’t already have Extra Attack. Let’s look at a couple breakpoints:

Both builds start with Barb1/Druid2. They each go four levels deep into their preferred class.

At 5th level, the Druid is Barb1/Druid4, and has gained swimming forms and second-level spells. This gives him access to Pass Without Trace, a handy party stealth tool, and to a couple of the coveted grapple-restrain forms. However, Giant Octopus is limited by a severe lack of mobility and its single, relatively inaccurate attack is hard to make stick. Crocodile and Giant Toad are better in the mobility department but are worse on accuracy. You’re restricted to two rages per long, so if you have a long day you’re very likely to run out.

At 5th level, the Barbarian is Barb3/Druid 2, and has gained his primal path ability, Reckless Attack, and a third rage. Bear Totem means it’s much harder to burn through your furry HP stack, a third rage means you’re less strapped for them, and Reckless Attack makes your attacks very reliable; important when you’re swinging at a +5 while your friends have probably boosted to +7 or 8 by this point. Your DPR is much more reliable than your Druid counterpart, because of this.

The other important breakpoint is 7th Level.


The Druid is now Barbarian1/Druid 6, and has gained access to CR 2 forms, 3rd-level spells and the Moon Druid’s magical natural attacks ability. None of the single-big-attack creatures deal enough damage to beat the lure of Multiattack, so your main DPR form is now Polar/Cave Bear. The accuracy boost to +7 brings you more-or-less in line with your peers, and your DPR of ~25 is solid. The only 3rd-level spell you’re really going to use in combat is Plant Growth, which admittedly is pretty sweet. The big winner here for wildshape forms is the Giant Constrictor Snake, which offers grapple-restrain without the mobility or accuracy issues of Octopus/Toad/Croc.

The Barbarian is now Barb5/Druid2, and has just earned Fast Movement and his Extra Attack. Extra Attack allows you to shift away from Brown Bear as your primary form, opens up grappling as an option, improves your defense by letting you use Dire Wolf’s Pack Tactics in place of Reckless in a slugging match, and allows your Pounce options a lot more reliability. Your only grapple-restrain form is the standard Constrictor Snake which is too squishy to get the job done but you should probably have Sentinel by now. You don’t have magical attacks on your Beast form, so you’ll need to hold onto a magic weapon and fight Elementals and such in humanish form, but you have Rage and Extra Attack so you’re no pushover.

At 9th level, the Druid goes to Barb3/Druid6. Reckless attack makes your offense more reliable but you’re probably still sticking to Bear and Giant Constrictor Snake. An extra rage corrects that desperate need. Meanwhile the Barbarian is Barb5/Druid4, and has just discovered the wonderfulness of being a two-advantaged-attack, 20ft move speed octopus.

Looking at the comparison between the two, it’s not as lopsided as I thought. I think I would probably still go the Barbarian route, but there are reasons to go Druid-focus.

[Snowbluff]

Ghostwise halfling is the best race. Telepathy is awesome, and you retain the halfing luck trait as well.

In my experience, Sentinel isn't very good. My Halfing Druid/Barbarian is level 9, and he's used it about twice in the 3 levels he has had it. He was basically made to be as tough as possible, so I didn't prioritize damage output.

Take 3 levels of Barbarian. Getting Bear totem was a HUGE boost to my effective HP, as I was taking half damage from a lot of spells and a bunch of other effects.

I prefer the druid focus, as when you lose the couple hundred or so HP, you're still a druid with a good number of slots left.

[prototype00]

Thanks for the breakdown! Yeah, the 3 levels of Barbarian are definitely non negotiable it seems. The next extra Rage is at 6th level so that’s more of a stiff investment.

But how does the lvl 7 look with say... lvl3 Barbarian/lvl 4 Druid?

Edit:Hmm a bit anemic...

[kardar233]

In my experience, Sentinel isn't very good. My Halfing Druid/Barbarian is level 9, and he's used it about twice in the 3 levels he has had it. He was basically made to be as tough as possible, so I didn't prioritize damage output.

Must be a table differerence; I often have monsters rush past me to engage the squishy folk, so I think Sentinel is pretty great.

I think the Druid4/Barb3 is not amazing. I feel that the Druid 4 forms are not very good without the support of Barb 5’s Extra Attack and Fast Movement, so you’re not really gaining anything by that middle path.

[prototype00]

Must be a table differerence; I often have monsters rush past me to engage the squishy folk, so I think Sentinel is pretty great.

I think the Druid4/Barb3 is not amazing. I feel that the Druid 4 forms are not very good without the support of Barb 5’s Extra Attack and Fast Movement, so you’re not really gaining anything by that middle path.

Well, besides 2nd level Druid spells that is.

[HMS Invincible]

I’ll say that as a straight-classed Moon Druid I never felt that my wild shapes were a viable option for being a frontline fighter. Even at 2nd level where they’re supposed to be amazingly powerful, I often got smashed out of my wildshape due to my low AC, especially against groups. I think the Rage resistance is really important, and Reckless Attack buttresses your weak to-hits.

Additionally, I don’t feel the CR 2 creatures are good enough relative to the CR 1s to make rushing for Druid 6 worth it, if you don’t already have Extra Attack. Let’s look at a couple breakpoints:

Both builds start with Barb1/Druid2. They each go four levels deep into their preferred class.

At 5th level, the Druid is Barb1/Druid4, and has gained swimming forms and second-level spells. This gives him access to Pass Without Trace, a handy party stealth tool, and to a couple of the coveted grapple-restrain forms. However, Giant Octopus is limited by a severe lack of mobility and its single, relatively inaccurate attack is hard to make stick. Crocodile and Giant Toad are better in the mobility department but are worse on accuracy. You’re restricted to two rages per long, so if you have a long day you’re very likely to run out.

At 5th level, the Barbarian is Barb3/Druid 2, and has gained his primal path ability, Reckless Attack, and a third rage. Bear Totem means it’s much harder to burn through your furry HP stack, a third rage means you’re less strapped for them, and Reckless Attack makes your attacks very reliable; important when you’re swinging at a +5 while your friends have probably boosted to +7 or 8 by this point. Your DPR is much more reliable than your Druid counterpart, because of this.

The other important breakpoint is 7th Level.


The Druid is now Barbarian1/Druid 6, and has gained access to CR 2 forms, 3rd-level spells and the Moon Druid’s magical natural attacks ability. None of the single-big-attack creatures deal enough damage to beat the lure of Multiattack, so your main DPR form is now Polar/Cave Bear. The accuracy boost to +7 brings you more-or-less in line with your peers, and your DPR of ~25 is solid. The only 3rd-level spell you’re really going to use in combat is Plant Growth, which admittedly is pretty sweet. The big winner here for wildshape forms is the Giant Constrictor Snake, which offers grapple-restrain without the mobility or accuracy issues of Octopus/Toad/Croc.

The Barbarian is now Barb5/Druid2, and has just earned Fast Movement and his Extra Attack. Extra Attack allows you to shift away from Brown Bear as your primary form, opens up grappling as an option, improves your defense by letting you use Dire Wolf’s Pack Tactics in place of Reckless in a slugging match, and allows your Pounce options a lot more reliability. Your only grapple-restrain form is the standard Constrictor Snake which is too squishy to get the job done but you should probably have Sentinel by now. You don’t have magical attacks on your Beast form, so you’ll need to hold onto a magic weapon and fight Elementals and such in humanish form, but you have Rage and Extra Attack so you’re no pushover.

At 9th level, the Druid goes to Barb3/Druid6. Reckless attack makes your offense more reliable but you’re probably still sticking to Bear and Giant Constrictor Snake. An extra rage corrects that desperate need. Meanwhile the Barbarian is Barb5/Druid4, and has just discovered the wonderfulness of being a two-advantaged-attack, 20ft move speed octopus.

Looking at the comparison between the two, it’s not as lopsided as I thought. I think I would probably still go the Barbarian route, but there are reasons to go Druid-focus.

http://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/druid/wildshape
I disagree. Barb 1 druid 6 is stronger. In your scenario, you picked a weaker wild shape. Try the numbers with the giant elk, or any of the other forms. Lastly, druid 3rd level spells are no joke. example conjure animals can overrun many encounters.

[kardar233]

http://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/druid/wildshape
I disagree. Barb 1 druid 6 is stronger. In your scenario, you picked a weaker wild shape. Try the numbers with the giant elk, or any of the other forms. Lastly, druid 3rd level spells are no joke. example conjure animals can overrun many encounters.

Druid 3rds are nice, though if the focus is being a face-smasher most of them require concentration which Rage locks out. Plant Growth, as I mentioned, is one of the few that doesn’t require it, and is good. I had some good experiences with Conjure Animals back when we thought you could pick what you got (snakes, snakes and more snakes) but now that we know it’s DM’s pick or random table it’s much less appetizing.

I looked through the other forms, and they do have their merits but I don’t think any of them serves the role well enough. Giant Elk is a solid form overall, but I think it’s a little overvalued in that guide, and is not a good fit for the Barbarian multiclass at that level. The Elk can knock prone but has no way to keep an enemy prone (absent Conjured Animals and the like, which are barred by Rage) so it’s rare that you’ll actually get to land your hoof attack. Its ram is solid but averages out at 19 damage (21 with rage), which is less than its more accurate Polar Bear competition. Furthermore, the movement requirement for the Elk’s boosted ram damage makes your movement more like a skirmisher than a tank, and if you’re not making use of your 200-odd effective hit points to take hits others can’t, then why are you playing this build?

The best consistent damage form at CR 2 remains the Polar Bear; all other competitors (none of whom reach any significant amount above the Bear’s damage output) are hampered by unreliability (the Pouncers: Allosaur, Sabre-Toothed Tiger), specific circumstance (Giant Elk), or charge requirement without a disengage option (Rhino, Aurochs, the Pouncers).

Giant Constrictor Snake is an amazing form for duelling and for party support. It’s the only form that makes me consider rushing for Druid 6, but I think the Barbarian route is still better if your focus is “morph and eat them”.

[Penhall]

So I’ve heard about the Bearbarian build for quite a while, and I wanted to experience its pure tankiness for myself (in Adventurers League). But I had a couple of questions: (ta in advance for your kind answers)

1. Race? I’m told that Firbolgs and Ghostwise Halflings are good.

2. I’m guessing Con and Wis are the most important stats but anything else I should pay attention to?

3. AL allows for a bit of rebuilding up to 5th level, I might use the opportunity to bypass a bit of the growing pains the build might have..., in which case should I build straight druid or Barbarian until I hit level 3? (The first level the combo plays nicely)

4. Any other advice, views?

Thanks all!

Apologies for resurrecting a dying thread, but I'm about to start the same type of character in AL and am interested in what you decided and how it played at your table. Any changes to the build you would have made? Did it play the way you thought it would?