Druidcraft need an errata

[Belier]

They need to remove vocal components.

You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as falling leaves, a puff of wind, the sound of a small animal, or the faint odor of skunk.

What is the point of making these sounds smells if everyone knows it's your doing because you are clearly audible.

I'd say the designers messed up with this spell design. The flavor is nice, it's a shame.

Besides, with some gm the only thing that will be useful is lightning and snutting lights.
This prestigitagion cantrip will feel like a waste of skills.

[Blood of Gaea]

*shrug* Druids get permanent Subtle Spell as their capstone. All casters suffer from this problem, the only ones that can avoid it are Sorcerers and Druids.

[Tetrasodium]

They need to remove vocal components.

You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as falling leaves, a puff of wind, the sound of a small animal, or the faint odor of skunk.

What is the point of making these sounds smells if everyone knows it's your doing because you are clearly audible.

I'd say the designers messed up with this spell design. The flavor is nice, it's a shame.

Besides, with some gm the only thing that will be useful is lightning and snutting lights.
This prestigitagion cantrip will feel like a waste of skills.

the cantrip in general is pretty sub par unless your GM is letting you use it to mass produce saffron from a crocus flower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus_sativus), given that the price of a pound of saffron is about 5,000-10,000$ vrs a pound of gold being more like 1,327$ in today's dollars because a crocus only produces a couple stamen you can harvest per flower & plant. Meanwhile phb157 lists 1 pound saffron at 15gp & 1 pound gold as 50gp so it might not even be worth it then unless you are able to churn out a truly staggering amount of it.
Most of the rest of what the cantrip is almost useful stuff like you mention or like the predict weather use something better in theory than execution.... Yes, technically call lightning benefits from it sometimes... but other than "and the storm causes your ship to..." type situations, when was the last time anyone can honestly say that the weather was somehow important to a game they were in.

[Tetrasodium]

*shrug* Druids get permanent Subtle Spell as their capstone. All casters suffer from this problem, the only ones that can avoid it are Sorcerers and Druids.

kind of technically sorta almost correct... but it's also wrong

Beginning at 18th level, you can cast many of your druid spells in any shape you assume using Wild Shape. You can perform the somatic and verbal components of a druid spell while in a beast shape, but you aren’t able to provide material components.


You might be able to say thatit's true if a druid is a flea in their buddy's hair & the gm was ok with that level of practical greater invisibility lasting 30 min*level 2x/short rest (then unlimited at 20).... but more realistically it's just a bad cantrip even compared to winners like SaveOnCheapHealersKits (spare the dying).


More likely than an errata on it is that some future druid archtype will include a fluffy semi useful tweak to it like how grave cleric 1 gets it free but can cast it as a bonus action instead of action & do it up to 30 feet away instead of touch. The problem there is that making druidcraft useful would effectively require you just create a new spell & a new spell might as well be put in as a spell instead.

[Blood of Gaea]

kind of technically sorta almost correct... but it's also wrong
No, I am most definitely correct, I said their capstone.


At 20th level, you can use your Wild Shape an unlimited number of times.

Additionally, you can ignore the verbal and somatic components of your druid spells, as well as any material components that lack a cost and aren’t consumed by a spell. You gain this benefit in both your normal shape and your beast shape from Wild Shape.

[Tetrasodium]

No, I am most definitely correct, I said their capstone.

So you are suggesting that the level 20 ability makes druidcraft useful enough to warrant 19 levels of near uselessness?

[Blood of Gaea]

So you are suggesting that the level 20 ability makes druidcraft useful enough to warrant 19 levels of near uselessness?
I never said that, I stated that Druids and Sorcerers are the only ones that can directly get around the downside. Every other caster needs to worry about their spellcasting when trying to be subtle.

[Tetrasodium]

I never said that, I stated that Druids and Sorcerers are the only ones that can directly get around the downside. Every other caster needs to worry about their spellcasting when trying to be subtle.

which is irrelevant to the fact that the cantrip is awful as the OP pointed out.

[Belier]

Well even if it is bad I can see some usefulness in it.

For example, take an event taking place at night and theres a group of npc. You ask the dm, hows the lighting, he answersyou can see around the campfire. I cast druidcraft snutting the small campfire. Now they are in complete darkness, I have darkvision, the group doesnt have it. i gain advantage and them disadvantage. This is a good situation where an action is good.

Also, if you read the rules to make fire, you have to work a while to light a simple torch if you need it. As an action you can save yourself all the hassle of it in combat.

But other than this ability, the rest is pure fluff and it's a shame there is a vocal component. Making noise casting this spells render the fluff aspect completely useless for the purpose of making sounds and smells. What's the point of making the sound of a rattlesnake to distract somebody if they can hear you well withing 30ft. You make the smell of a skunk to disgust somebody but he will automatically know you did it.

The sprout seed part is mostly for rp too.

For such a spell that countain a weaker version of minor illusion, there should definitely have no vocals. And even if druids get subtle casting later on, it is clearly a error in the design from the devs. Why should we need to wait 19 level up in the first place to truly use such a weak can trip to it's potential. The spells does not need to be different thus calling it a new spell. It only needs an errata. As a druid, for the fluff i'd take this cantrip anytime but at the moment it is borderline useless to use it for fluff.

[Davrix]

They need to remove vocal components.

You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as falling leaves, a puff of wind, the sound of a small animal, or the faint odor of skunk.

What is the point of making these sounds smells if everyone knows it's your doing because you are clearly audible.

I'd say the designers messed up with this spell design. The flavor is nice, it's a shame.

Besides, with some gm the only thing that will be useful is lightning and snutting lights.
This prestigitagion cantrip will feel like a waste of skills.

That is kind of the point. They are not meant to be subtle. its flashy show magic just as much as the caster one is and the one for clerics. There is nothing wrong with them and I don't see the point of having an eerta. They are parlor tricks at best. That being said you can always augment them slightly. I let my druid use it to conjure flowers to give to children. or help a sick plant recover or her garden to grow faster over several days of use.

[Tetrasodium]

That is kind of the point. They are not meant to be subtle. its flashy show magic just as much as the caster one is and the one for clerics. There is nothing wrong with them and I don't see the point of having an eerta. They are parlor tricks at best. That being said you can always augment them slightly. I let my druid use it to conjure flowers to give to children. or help a sick plant recover or her garden to grow faster over several days of use.



Well even if it is bad I can see some usefulness in it.

For example, take an event taking place at night and theres a group of npc. You ask the dm, hows the lighting, he answersyou can see around the campfire. I cast druidcraft snutting the small campfire. Now they are in complete darkness, I have darkvision, the group doesnt have it. i gain advantage and them disadvantage. This is a good situation where an action is good.

Also, if you read the rules to make fire, you have to work a while to light a simple torch if you need it. As an action you can save yourself all the hassle of it in combat.

But other than this ability, the rest is pure fluff and it's a shame there is a vocal component. Making noise casting this spells render the fluff aspect completely useless for the purpose of making sounds and smells. What's the point of making the sound of a rattlesnake to distract somebody if they can hear you well withing 30ft. You make the smell of a skunk to disgust somebody but he will automatically know you did it.

The sprout seed part is mostly for rp too.

For such a spell that countain a weaker version of minor illusion, there should definitely have no vocals. And even if druids get subtle casting later on, it is clearly a error in the design from the devs. Why should we need to wait 19 level up in the first place to truly use such a weak can trip to it's potential. The spells does not need to be different thus calling it a new spell. It only needs an errata. As a druid, for the fluff i'd take this cantrip anytime but at the moment it is borderline useless to use it for fluff.

You both raise valid points about the spell that I considered making until looking up a few other spells to double check.

On the snuff a torch front


This spell is a minor magical trick that novice spellcasters use for practice. You create one of the
following magical effects within range:
• You create an instantaneous, harm less sensory effect such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musi*cal notes, or an odd odor.
• You instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire.
• You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot.
• You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliv*ing material for 1 hour.
• You make a color, a small mark, or a symbol appear
on an object or a surface for 1 hour.
• You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand and that lasts until the end of
your next turn.
If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have up to three of its non-instantaneous effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.


Not only can prestidigitation snuff the torch & make the same harmless sensory effects, it can clean dangerous substances from you or an ally/a small area warranting further study, flavor something, make an illusory widget to hold, or make a color/symbol appear. Arguably, some of those things could be compared to making a flower blossom & predicting the weather... but it has useful applications instead

On the show magic thing, minor illusion & thaumaturgy both come up.


Illusion cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: S, M (a bit of fleece)
Duration: 1 minute
You create a sound or an image of an object within range that lasts for the duration. The illusion also ends if you dismiss it as an action or cast this spell again.
If you create a sound, its volume can range from a whisper to a scream . It can be your voice, someone else’s voice, a lion’s roar, a beating of drums, or any other sound you choose. The sound continues unabated throughout the duration, or you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends.
If you create an image of an object—such as a chair, muddy footprints, or a small chest—it must be no larger than a 5-foot cube. The image can’t create sound, light, smell, or any other sensory effect. Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it.
If a creature uses its action to examine the sound or image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
Again you can create smell & sound, but add vision of objects larger than a handheld nonmagical object.




Transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V
Duration: Up to 1 minute
You manifest a minor wonder, a sign of supernatural power, within range. You create one of the following magical effects within range:
• Your voice boom s up to three times as loud as normal for 1 minute.
• You cause flames to flicker, brighten, dim, or change color for 1 minute.
• You cause harm less tremors in the ground for 1 minute.
• You create an instantaneous sound that originates from a point of your choice within range, such as a rumble of thunder, the cry of a raven, or ominous whispers.
• You instantaneously cause an unlocked door or win*dow to fly open or slam shut.
• You alter the appearance of your eyes for 1 minute.If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have up to three of its 1-minute effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
You can't snuff the torch, but you can dim it, make a sound again, or change the appearance of your eyes as a stand-in for a more minor disguise self or way of enhancing a disguise. you can also use it as a megaphone to alert the group/a scout or do things like open/close that dangerous looking door/window 30 feet away from the suspected trap in a truly mechanically useful display.

[Belier]

If you consider minor illusion it has no vocal components and you could reliably try to hide behind a illusionary barrel if you'd wish it. Druidcraft has nothing of the sort and would not be super usefull even without the vocals component. I'm just complaining the vocal components destroy the fluff side of the spell.

[Aett_Thorn]

Not everything needs to be super useful. Some stuff can just be flavorful for the sake of being flavorful. Could this spell do more? Sure. But I don't think it needs to be changed.

[Naanomi]

I think the three ‘fluff cantrips’ should have been given to clerics/Druids/wizards for free... but it isn’t a big deal that they are not

[tieren]

I always envisioned the purpose of these fluff cantrips was to make you look magical. Doing them subtley kind of defeats the purpose.

Look at me, I can make the withered flowers on your desk bloom. Perhaps you didn't see the ray of sunshine beaming in the window giving me a majestic backlight. With a wave of my arms a flurry of leaves falls from my cape, disappearing before they hit the ground. I am the avatar of nature.

[nickl_2000]

I think the three ‘fluff cantrips’ should have been given to clerics/Druids/wizards for free... but it isn’t a big deal that they are not

I can get behind this 100%

[Belier]

You say:(i'd like to know how to quote)
Look at me, I can make the withered flowers on your desk bloom. Perhaps you didn't see the ray of sunshine beaming in the window giving me a majestic backlight. With a wave of my arms a flurry of leaves falls from my cape, disappearing before they hit the ground. I am the avatar of nature.

But it doesn't look so cool if you have to chant for these small effects. It defeats the purpose of the fluff from an rp perspective.

All the example peoples cited above looks cool without vocals, but with it it looks dumb for rp.

Sommatic is fine, it keeps the cool effect of passing your hand on the withered flowers to make them bloom again.

[tieren]

You say:(i'd like to know how to quote)
Look at me, I can make the withered flowers on your desk bloom. Perhaps you didn't see the ray of sunshine beaming in the window giving me a majestic backlight. With a wave of my arms a flurry of leaves falls from my cape, disappearing before they hit the ground. I am the avatar of nature.

But it doesn't look so cool if you have to chant for these small effects. It defeats the purpose of the fluff from an rp perspective.

All the example peoples cited above looks cool without vocals, but with it it looks dumb for rp.

Sommatic is fine, it keeps the cool effect of passing your hand on the withered flowers to make them bloom again.

I don't see why muttering some arcane words while you do the flourish makes it look dumb.

[Blood of Gaea]

(i'd like to know how to quote)

https://i.imgur.com/0npm9v7.jpg

[MaxWilson]

On the show magic thing, minor illusion & thaumaturgy both come up... *snip*

You can't snuff the torch, but you can dim it, make a sound again, or change the appearance of your eyes as a stand-in for a more minor disguise self or way of enhancing a disguise. you can also use it as a megaphone to alert the group/a scout or do things like open/close that dangerous looking door/window 30 feet away from the suspected trap in a truly mechanically useful display.

I can't believe anyone would ever compare Druidcraft unfavorably with Thaumaturgy. Sure, Prestidigitation is clearly the best of them for everyday uses (Prestiigitation: Clean the Dishes! Prestidigitation: Make My Oatmeal Taste Like Beef Stew!) but Thauamaturgy is exceedingly useless. Druidcraft is somewhere in between.

For those who say that Thaumaturgy allows you to prove that you're magical... well, yeah, but so does almost any other cantrip, like Light. The only ones that don't are the ones that require special conditions for casting, e.g. Spare the Dying is hard to demonstrate in a casual setting, so if Spare the Dying is literally your only other cantrip you might have to (gasp!) spend a spell slot.

"Change the appearance of your eyes"? Be serious, WotC.

I sure wish the cantrips were written with a little more flexibility, like Bestow Curse.

[Belier]

I don't see why muttering some arcane words while you do the flourish makes it look dumb.

It is the way the actions were described like you can do it in a pinch without effort to make things like make fallong leaves from your cape. It looks cool, but if you have to use tones of voices(doesnt have to be words as per phb) while doing it is a bit weird in the rp part.

Of course if you are chanting while making a rose bloom it might doesnt look at dumb but for making some leaves effect from a cape or a skunk sound or a puff of wind to make ny hair looks cool it will kinda defeat the purpose of using it to look cool and flavorful. It is opinion based but i am sure you can understand where I am coming from.

Besides, if you want to make the sound of an animal, it is useless with you chanting so why describingnit innthe spell in the first place.otherwise why would you make the sound of small animal to distract somebody. Might as well throw a stone. This is why I abide with the opinion this spell design need an erata. I'm not saying all of it is dumb, just a small part need correction and removing voice component for the sound and smell part fix this purpose.

[Tiadoppler]

removing voice component for the sound and smell part fix this purpose.

I agree with the premise, but I don't think it needs a real removal of the V component. The very first words in the spell description is "Whispering to the spirits of nature" and I have no problem, as a DM, ruling that that means "audible out to 5 feet." Yes, if someone's having a conversation with you they'll know you're casting a spell, but it can still be used stealthily at 30' and is still relatively subtle (if not technically Subtle).

[Quoxis]

It is the way the actions were described like you can do it in a pinch without effort to make things like make fallong leaves from your cape. It looks cool, but if you have to use tones of voices(doesnt have to be words as per phb) while doing it is a bit weird in the rp part.

Of course if you are chanting while making a rose bloom it might doesnt look at dumb but for making some leaves effect from a cape or a skunk sound or a puff of wind to make ny hair looks cool it will kinda defeat the purpose of using it to look cool and flavorful. It is opinion based but i am sure you can understand where I am coming from.

Besides, if you want to make the sound of an animal, it is useless with you chanting so why describingnit innthe spell in the first place.otherwise why would you make the sound of small animal to distract somebody. Might as well throw a stone. This is why I abide with the opinion this spell design need an erata. I'm not saying all of it is dumb, just a small part need correction and removing voice component for the sound and smell part fix this purpose.

Exactly: why would you use the spell instead of something better suited for the situation?

It’s not that the spell is broken or bad, it’s your interpretation of what the spell should be that’s wrong. The spell isn’t intended to create a distraction, otherwise it wouldn’t have a verbal component.
That’s like taking the wheels off of a skateboard because it won’t stop moving - it’s not intended to stand still.

The intended use of the spell seems to be pure fluff without mechanic implications further than „i want to impress this NPC with my druidism“. If you want to create distractions, use minor illusion - this spell seems to be made for just that, and upon further inspection it lacks the verbal component.

[Belier]

I agree with the premise, but I don't think it needs a real removal of the V component. The very first words in the spell description is "Whispering to the spirits of nature" and I have no problem as DM ruling that that means "audible out to 5 feet." Yes, if someone's having a conversation with you they'll know you're casting a spell, but it can still be used stealthily at 30' and is still relatively subtle (if not technically Subtle).

You are very right upon this. It is whispering.
Normally vocal has to be clearly audible but in this case I think whispering it is fine since in this game specific overide general.

I missed that point on the spell. Thus you can stealthly use it. Perharps consider distance and conversation like you said. May be roll for a stealth check if DM ask for one.

I already use this to feed my horse I sprout greens for him but I guess I won't be scared to make the sound of a small animal if I am hidden now.

[Captn_Flounder]

In 3.5 (I know, I know...) you could Sleight of Hand to mask verbal components in normal conversation or perform somatic components stealthily within your robe sleeves.

Don't see why that would change now other than not explicitly being stated in the rules text.

[Tiadoppler]

In 3.5 (I know, I know...) you could Sleight of Hand to mask verbal components in normal conversation or perform somatic components stealthily within your robe sleeves.

Don't see why that would change now other than not explicitly being stated in the rules text.

Page 85 of Xanathar's has some DM guidance for how to rule/play with identifying spells as they're cast.


Xanathar's seems to be implying that a Perception roll would be appropriate (it divides spells into Perceptible (has a V, S or M component) and Imperceptible (Subtle Spell metamagic or similar)). Depending on the DM's judgement, this might be an opposed check

I'd use: To obfuscate a Verbal component, use Deception, to conceal a Somatic or Material component, use Sleight of Hand. The caster must make a check for each component they're attempting to conceal. This should be a difficult check for the caster imo.

[Blood of Gaea]

I'd use: To obfuscate a Verbal component, use Deception, to conceal a Somatic or Material component, use Sleight of Hand. The caster must make a check for each component they're attempting to conceal. This should be a difficult check for the caster imo.
I would probably have it contest their Perception, they gain advantage on the check if they have proficiency in Arcana.

[Tiadoppler]

I would probably have it contest their Perception, they gain advantage on the check if they have proficiency in Arcana.

Agreed. I was saying that the other person would use an opposed Perception check against the caster's check(s) (Deception and/or 1-2 Sleight of Hand rolls). It should be difficult for the caster (so maybe they take the lowest of all their checks), but not a set DC.

[Captn_Flounder]

I'd use: To obfuscate a Verbal component, use Deception, to conceal a Somatic or Material component, use Sleight of Hand. The caster must make a check for each component they're attempting to conceal. This should be a difficult check for the caster imo.

I would use Charisma: Sleight of Hand and Dexterity: Sleight of Hand personally. The verbal component could go either way, but I feel Sleight of Hand is under used compared to Deception, and it feels like a more "niche" think that most casters wouldn't be even attempting. But again, could easily see a Deception check here aswell.

[Tiadoppler]

I would use Charisma: Sleight of Hand and Dexterity: Sleight of Hand personally. The verbal component could go either way, but I feel Sleight of Hand is under used compared to Deception, and it feels like a more "niche" think that most casters wouldn't be even attempting. But again, could easily see a Deception check here aswell.

In my game, I use Sleight of Hand strictly for physical manipulation that requires high degrees of precision/care/speed, so I'd never use it for the Verbal component. Between lockpicking, safecracking, pickpocketing, keeping something from spilling, grabbing a falling item, etc. Sleight of Hand gets a fair amount of use.

On second thought, I might use
Verbal Component: Charisma(Performance) or Intelligence(Deception)
Somatic Component: Charisma(Sleight of Hand) or Intelligence(Stealth)
Material Component: Dexterity(Sleight of Hand)

[Captn_Flounder]

In my game, I use Sleight of Hand strictly for physical manipulation that requires high degrees of precision/care/speed, so I'd never use it for the Verbal component. Between lockpicking, safecracking, pickpocketing, keeping something from spilling, grabbing a falling item, etc. Sleight of Hand gets a fair amount of use.



Lockpicking is the most common use listed, but its most certainly Proficiency - Thieves' Tools. Also I think keeping something from falling/grabbing a falling item could more reasonably be a Dexterity Save I think.

I see Sleight of Hand, personally, as prestidigitation. Actual prestidigitation, not the spell. Where its anytime you are trying to do something in front of someone's face without them noticing. Like cheating at poker, palming a small object like a coin, pick pocketing, or that one game with the red ball and the three turtle shells.

Again, I could be wrong. Don't want to use perform because that makes it hard for most non-bard/AT Rogue to stealth cast since they would need to acquire 2 non-class proficiencies and I like to keep most things as simple as possible for me and my players.

[Cynthaer]

I don't know that it needs an errata per se. Honestly, I think Verbal and Somatic components in general are intentionally very loosely defined, in terms of how they interact with narrative (rather than combat) contexts.

Basically, for most spells without a material cost, the primary mechanical effect of having Verbal or Somatic/Material components is that you can't cast certain spells under certain conditions. The implementation details get weird, but the idea is silencing or restraining someone prevents a bunch of spells, and casters generally don't get to dual-wield or run around with weapon + shield. (Clerics and Paladins are an intentional exception, and of course there are various gaps in the rules around free actions and so on.)

The point is, outside of situations where the balance actually matters (like combat), I'm pretty sure the vast majority of DMs couldn't possibly care less if there's technically a verbal component on the flavor cantrips.

Like, I have a Tiefling Warlock who's fond of casually making her eyes flash red when talking to people who seem nervous around her. I can't imagine what DM would bother to halt the narrative to point out that Thaumaturgy technically has a verbal component that I completely ignored.

On the other hand, let's say the party was captured and gagged, and I wanted to cause a distraction by making a window open on the other side of the room. Now that verbal component would be relevant, because there's an interesting obstacle to solve.

Relatedly, there was a recent thread where someone explained their campaign's houserules for casting spells without drawing attention in social settings—it involved a couple of skill checks with advantage for distractions from other party members, I think. I remember a lot of pushback from people who felt that this stepped on the toes of Sorcerers with Subtle Spell, but I think that misses the point.

The core V/S/M rules aren't really built to answer questions like "can I cast this without drawing attention", because it usually only comes up a few times per campaign on things like failing a Charm Person against a non-hostile target. In a campaign where you're constantly attending fancy balls or whatever, it makes sense to have a more detailed ruleset for that sort of thing.

TL;DR: Audible verbal components are like skill checks. You should only invoke them when it's actually interesting gameplay.

[Captn_Flounder]

"it usually only comes up a few times per campaign on things like failing a Charm Person against a non-hostile target."

Except when one if your players insists on trying to Charm Person every shop keeper because they don't want to spend the literal tens of thousands of gold they amassed.

After a while one of those shop keepers turns out to be a retired Paladin who beat them nearly to death because he has PTSD and the Wizard could have been trying to cast Lightning Bolt or Gate or something.

[Cynthaer]

"it usually only comes up a few times per campaign on things like failing a Charm Person against a non-hostile target."

Except when one if your players insists on trying to Charm Person every shop keeper because they don't want to spend the literal tens of thousands of gold they amassed.

After a while one of those shop keepers turns out to be a retired Paladin who beat them nearly to death because he has PTSD and the Wizard could have been trying to cast Lightning Bolt or Gate or something.

Well, that's why I say usually. :)

It's kind of like wilderness traversal. In some campaigns, it's not really a focus, so you can be pretty fast and loose with the rulings. In others, it's a major focus, so you need to make sure you have proper consistent mechanics, or else nobody will know quite what they can actually do.

[Tetrasodium]

"it usually only comes up a few times per campaign on things like failing a Charm Person against a non-hostile target."

Except when one if your players insists on trying to Charm Person every shop keeper because they don't want to spend the literal tens of thousands of gold they amassed.

After a while one of those shop keepers turns out to be a retired Paladin who beat them nearly to death because he has PTSD and the Wizard could have been trying to cast Lightning Bolt or Gate or something.

NPC levels... I've had a bartender once who while within his specially prepared bar could cast things like mass hold person & mass flesh to stone if needed