[DnD 3.5] Sudden exp inflation problem

[Skuli]

Ok, so my DM screwed thing up a little notch.
He introduced Deck of Many Things to us and thought that this is a great idea. Before our party drew on them we were 14/14/13 lvl, about to lvl up.
Sorc drew 2 cards, that gave her 2 free wishes and lvl up after slaying a monster alone
Swordsage drew 3 cards, 2 of them canceled each other, and he ended up with lvl up after slaying a monster alone
Me... Ranger, TWF, Warblade manouver progression (Tiger Claw and Shadow Blade) instead of spells. Oh, I got plenty. I had to draw 4 ("had to" is a long story, but is legit, no problem here). I drew -1 to all saving throws (on top of my -3 to will saves from flaw), got stripped of all magic items, got 10k exp, beneficial medium wondrous item (cloak of displacement, minor) and 50,000 XP. So, basically 60k exp.
So basically I ended up with 18 lvl and nothing on me besides cloak of displacement, and other guys are at 14/13 lvl and waiting to kill something by themselves to get to 15/14, and they "killing something by themselves" can take them a while. While I got access to 9th lvl manouvers from ToB and really can manage without magic items, I've picked our stash for some stuff and got to about 60k gp in WBL. My char is much more optimized than the rest of the guys.

But the current situation isn't beneficial for anyone and DM want to fix his mistake of introducing Deck of Many Things, well, on me basically, the rest got it easy and as we play in 3 ppl one lvl up isn't that big of a deal, and Sorc is not the kind of a person who would break the game with wishes. So basically it ends with return the balance on me, and neither I nor my DM knows what to do with an excess of my exp. He proposed to give me 2 Weapons of Legacy in exchange for 50k exp, but that won't do any good. Drawbacks for 2 of them are too great for my character even with custom ones top of the shelf. So my DM asked me can I get Your guys opinion on this, that doesn't screw over me even more than it is and at the same time isn't OP.
I'm much more optimized already than the rest of the team, so it can't be anything too powerful, and at the same time, I would like to feel, that 50k of exp that I'm giving up is worth the thing.
Any ideas?

[Fizban]

Ctrl+Z, never use Deck of Many Things again.

[Skuli]

Yeah, that came up as a suggestion from me, but the rest of the party were like "suck it up, it's good". They got only good things from that, DM said it's our call and I got overvoted, so... yeah. It's between me and him to make it work now.
DM knows he screwed up with that thing, but now we need a solution that isn't Ctrl+Z.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Yeah, that came up as a suggestion from me, but the rest of the party were like "suck it up, it's good". They got only good things from that, DM said it's our call and I got overvoted, so... yeah. It's between me and him to make it work now.
DM knows he screwed up with that thing, but now we need a solution that isn't Ctrl+Z.

Die near a low level cleric so you will lose a level when you came back.

Sell your XP to a crafter, there is an item that let you do it if they are in the middle of crafting.

[Skuli]

Die near a low-level cleric so you will lose a level when you came back.
"You can die now 3 times and You'll be ok!" isn't that much of a solution... DM screwed up, so I need to die 3 times and get resurrected from my funds (which I don't have) so that other party members can have something to do and I won't end encounters with one hit? Yeah, next, please.


Sell your XP to a crafter, there is an item that let you do it if they are in the middle of crafting.
Yeah, there is a web enhancement about that (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a), problem is, I'd still need about 200k gp to get 400k worth of items to get all 50k xp out of me, even if we'd ignore "xp can't drop below required for the level" rule. And that's assuming there is no profit at the crafter's end. And I'd end with wbl of an 18th lvl character, or the wbl of an entire party right now. So not that great of an idea either.

[Telonius]

I'd say you have a couple of options. You could somehow lose the XP. Death and crafting have been mentioned, and crafting in particular can help you recover some gold. Unfortunately crafting won't take you all the way you need to go, since you can't spend so much XP in crafting that you lose a level. (DM can over-rule this obviously, but just going by the regular rules). The other problem is that the "death" route can get expensive, quickly, and you already have an issue with GP loss.

Another option would be to send you guy off into semi-retirement and play a temporary character (level-appropriate to the rest of the party) until the rest of the party catches up. This solves the XP disparity problem, but doesn't really fix the GP loss.

So either way, you're going to need the DM to step up and help you out a bit. Personally I'd probably favor the temporary character option, and ask the DM nicely if you could assume that you guy is doing something to make up the money while the rest of the team is adventuring.

Just in general, I do hope this is a learning experience for everybody. Deck of Many Things is notorious for being a campaign-wrecker. It sounds cool and exciting until you have to deal with the consequences. Many DMs and players don't realize this until it's too late. It's best used as a literally end-of-campaign thing.

[Uncle Pine]

I think Telonius is onto something: temporarily retire your character until everyone else catch up and then you come back with WBL-appropriate gears for an 18th-level character. This way everyone gets something: your friends get to keep their characters, the DM gets a group where all 3 characters are at about the same level and while you'll have to suck it up for a while you'll get free equipment for free in 3 levels.

[Talverin]

Or make everybody draw a couple more cards. Y'know, so they have a chance of matching you... or...

Donjon Four of swords Ace of spades You are imprisoned.
Fool O. The Fool Joker (with trademark) Lose 10,000 experience points and you must draw again.
Idiot Two of pentacles Two of clubs Lose 1d4+1 Intelligence. You may draw again.
Talons Queen of pentacles Ace of clubs All magic items you possess disappear permanently.
Skull XIII. Death Jack of clubs Defeat dread wraith or be forever destroyed.

"Skull: A dread wraith appears. The character must fight it alone—if others help, dread wraiths appear to fight them as well. If the character is slain, she is slain forever and cannot be revived, even with a wish or a miracle."

Sure, they only had positive things happen, but a couple more draws might see them feeling a little less certain about it.

[EldritchWeaver]

Wasn't there are rule which prevent people from leveling up twice from the same event? So you get to level up once and have 1 XP less for the next level.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Wasn't there are rule which prevent people from leveling up twice from the same event? So you get to level up once and have 1 XP less for the next level.
Yep, there is such a rule. If you drop 50k XP on a level 1 commoner, it's a level 2 commoner just on the edge of level 3.

In this case, since it's a 10k chunk of XP follwed by a 50k chunk of XP, the first chunk takes care of level 15, and the second takes you up to 16, just shy of 17. That, by itself, should be a major balancing factor, as you're only two levels ahead of the party.

Offer to spend all the XP you have past level 16 (that's 15 999 XP) to receive a +1 typeless bonus to all saves. Then you'll be a party of level 14, 15, and 16, each just levelled up. That should be managable.

[Skuli]

I'd say you have a couple of options. You could somehow lose the XP. Death and crafting have been mentioned, and crafting, in particular, can help you recover some gold. Unfortunately, crafting won't take you all the way you need to go since you can't spend so much XP in crafting that you lose a level. (DM can over-rule this obviously, but just going by the regular rules). The other problem is that the "death" route can get expensive, quickly, and you already have an issue with GP loss.
I think that dying all over again isn't dealing with the problem, it's just nerfing me, and I'm already pissed at my DM for introducing the deck in the first place.
As for crafting, yeah, I'd need an "input" money for it to work and it'd get me right where I am right now, just with WBL, not exp.


Another option would be to send you guy off into semi-retirement and play a temporary character (level-appropriate to the rest of the party) until the rest of the party catches up. This solves the XP disparity problem but doesn't really fix the GP loss.

So either way, you're going to need the DM to step up and help you out a bit. Personally, I'd probably favor the temporary character option, and ask the DM nicely if you could assume that you guy is doing something to make up the money while the rest of the team is adventuring.
That's actually the best option so far, just will be hard to take a break from my character that I play for 2 years now. But yeah, generally, the best option so far.


Just in general, I do hope this is a learning experience for everybody. Deck of Many Things is notorious for being a campaign-wrecker. It sounds cool and exciting until you have to deal with the consequences. Many DMs and players don't realize this until it's too late. It's best used as a literally end-of-campaign thing.
Well, it definitely is a learning experience, my DM is great, just is still learning to manage high lvl characters. I'm trying to help him as I can, that's how instead of yelling at him on every occasion, I try to help him get out of this mess ^^


Or make everybody draw a couple more cards. Y'know, so they have a chance of matching you... or...

Donjon Four of swords Ace of spades You are imprisoned.
Fool O. The Fool Joker (with trademark) Lose 10,000 experience points and you must draw again.
Idiot Two of pentacles Two of clubs Lose 1d4+1 Intelligence. You may draw again.
Talons Queen of pentacles Ace of clubs All magic items you possess disappear permanently.
Skull XIII. Death Jack of clubs Defeat dread wraith or be forever destroyed.

"Skull: A dread wraith appears. The character must fight it alone—if others help, dread wraiths appear to fight them as well. If the character is slain, she is slain forever and cannot be revived, even with a wish or a miracle."

Sure, they only had positive things happen, but a couple more draws might see them feeling a little less certain about it.
Yeah, as it would be fun to watch, I doubt that making things potentially even worse, or even the threat of it, will make them Ctrl+Z :P As I know my party, we would end up in even worse case scenario, so...


Yep, there is such a rule. If you drop 50k XP on a level 1 commoner, it's a level 2 commoner just on the edge of level 3.

In this case, since it's a 10k chunk of XP followed by a 50k chunk of XP, the first chunk takes care of level 15, and the second takes you up to 16, just shy of 17. That, by itself, should be a major balancing factor, as you're only two levels ahead of the party.

Offer to spend all the XP you have past level 16 (that's 15 999 XP) to receive a +1 typeless bonus to all saves. Then you'll be a party of level 14, 15, and 16, each just leveled up. That should be manageable.
Well, I think that specific trumps general, and if in artifacts power is to give a character 50k XP it should be useful. There is not one discussion on mater of the deck and 50k XP and there is no conclusion AFAIK. You can make arguments on both sides and they are valid.
But even taking RAW into place, that just screws with me while screwing me still (hey, You took the risk, so now You have 60k xp, but You can't have that much, so You get only 31k, and You're still unbalanced, cause the same thing took 130k gp worth of equipment that You were hoarding for the last 1,5 years and still You are 2 lvls above everybody else! ), I'm still at 17 lvl cause we fought something after the deck, and that's still too much. They, to get the instant lvl up, have to kill something without help (I think my DM canceled the clause "on the next battle or nevermind") and it won't happen anytime soon I think, cause they would die by themselves :D They aren't optimized well.

As for the +1 bonus to all saves, well, considering that 30k gp translates to 150k gp (5:1 ratio) it's still pretty bad trade. And I'm still without any equipment. I offered to transfer 40k xp into WBL of my choosing - that way I'd have exact WBL for 15th lvl character, but since rest of my party is bellow WBL and I'm still much more optimized than the rest, DM declined that option saying I'd get too powerful.
We're searching for the middle ground, where I won't be punished for him introducing the deck, but it also won't tip the scale in the "my-character-is-too-powerfull" direction. I even offered, that some part of that WBL transfer would go into my building now stronghold, but that didn't pass either.

[EldritchWeaver]

Well, I think that specific trumps general, and if in artifacts power is to give a character 50k XP it should be useful. There is not one discussion on mater of the deck and 50k XP and there is no conclusion AFAIK. You can make arguments on both sides and they are valid.

Well, the deck has been converted from 2e without considering the fact, that 50k XP there were at higher levels (8+ I believe) not much, since you needed 100k+ XP to level. So even with cutting of 1 level you do benefit more than it was originally intended and you still keep two levels, which is useful. But you aren't happy that you got screwed with this level up, so I don't see why you are against mitigating this aspect. Also note, that this would reduce the time you use the replacement character, too. Which in the end means that the XP boost becomes irrelevant anyway, so why care, if you instead get something which helps unscrewing your character?

[BowStreetRunner]

Way back when I was playing in 1st edition I ran into some similar scenarios. In one case, the DM had allowed a low level character to sneak close to the dragon's lair (sort of similar to Bilbo checking on Smaug) and the character ended up doing something clever that dropped half the mountain on top of the dragon and killed it solo.

In another 1st edition game a player drank a potion of super heroism and a second potion at the same time. Rolling on the potion interaction tables it was determined that the potion of super heroism (which gave a bunch of levels) became permanent.

In each case, the DM was at fault. They didn't think through all of the possible outcomes of their decisions in advance so as a result the players suffered due to the party imbalance. For the DM to then put the responsibility for cleaning up the mess on a player is simply unfair. Few players are going to want to voluntarily give up their new gains. It's up to the DM to resolve the issue without making any of the players feel they are being made to suffer for the DMs inexperience.

If the DM wants to lay some sort of curse on you in-game to stick you with negative levels for a while or something, that's up to them. But if they want you to determine the best way to fix the problem just tell the DM that the best way is to do it some way that doesn't make you feel singled out for your good fortune. Then leave the rest to them.

If the other players have a problem with your character being higher level than they are just tell them
"suck it up, it's good"


Well, I think that specific trumps general, and if in artifacts power is to give a character 50k XP it should be useful. There is not one discussion on mater of the deck and 50k XP and there is no conclusion AFAIK. You can make arguments on both sides and they are valid.As for this, there isn't a specific exception to the leveling twice issue here. It specifically gives you a chunk of XP, that's all. The rules also specifically state that if you get a chunk of XP that levels you twice or more you stop leveling at 1 pt shy of your 2nd level.

[Fizban]

Yeah, that came up as a suggestion from me, but the rest of the party were like "suck it up, it's good". They got only good things from that, DM said it's our call and I got overvoted, so... yeah. It's between me and him to make it work now.
DM knows he screwed up with that thing, but now we need a solution that isn't Ctrl+Z.
The rest of your group told you to "suck it up?" Sounds like they need a lesson in not being butts.

So drop the rolled results for your character and just make them match the rest.

[Skuli]

Well, the deck has been converted from 2e without considering the fact, that 50k XP there were at higher levels (8+ I believe) not much since you needed 100k+ XP to level. So even with cutting off 1 level you do benefit more than it was originally intended and you still keep two levels, which is useful. But you aren't happy that you got screwed with this level up, so I don't see why you are against mitigating this aspect. Also note, that this would reduce the time you use the replacement character, too. Which in the end means that the XP boost becomes irrelevant anyway, so why care, if you instead get something which helps unscrewing your character?

I care because I played this character for 1,5 years now, got really attached to it, put a lot of work in build and fluff (stronghold only took me about 80 hours to think up, draw, describe, put costs to things etc.). So yeah, less time in backup character is better. But at the same time, I feel like those lvl ups are a punishment, not a reward, like a cheat or something. And on top of that, there is an actual curse that stripped me of all magic, meticulously hoarded for 1,5 years with DM that's stingy with WBL.
And on the other hand, when I get that kind of stuff, and it turns out that even the "good outcome" isn't that good as it supposed to be, well, let's say I'm not happy even further ;)


In each case, the DM was at fault. They didn't think through all of the possible outcomes of their decisions in advance so as a result, the players suffered due to the party imbalance. For the DM to then put the responsibility for cleaning up the mess on a player is simply unfair. Few players are going to want to voluntarily give up their new gains. It's up to the DM to resolve the issue without making any of the players feel they are being made to suffer for the DMs inexperience.

If the DM wants to lay some sort of curse on you in-game to stick you with negative levels for a while or something, that's up to them. But if they want you to determine the best way to fix the problem just tell the DM that the best way is to do it some way that doesn't make you feel singled out for your good fortune. Then leave the rest to them.

Yep, I wanted to help him so I can make sure that I'm not screwed again in the process of unscrewing me from this mess. But I just did what You said right now. There is no right answer to this. Either way, I'm not gonna be happy about whatever it's gonna be. So let him do his stuff, whatever it might be.


If the other players have a problem with your character being higher level than they are just tell them "suck it up, It's all good"
Yep, but I try to be a party player. It will end up eventually with me not playing to my characters full potential so that they can play the game too. All in all, it's all about fun for all at the table.


As for this, there isn't a specific exception to the leveling twice issue here. It specifically gives you a chunk of XP, that's all. The rules also specifically state that if you get a chunk of XP that levels you twice or more you stop leveling at 1 pt shy of your 2nd level.
Well, It's a major artifact. Major artifacts break the game rules. Taking aside my petty instincts to not get the full benefit cause something, as I said rest of the party will be unlikely to benefit from their lvl up anytime soon and it still leaves a 3 lvl gap with the potential of 2, instead of 4 lvl gap with the potential of 3. That's still a lot.


The rest of your group told you to "suck it up?" Sounds like they need a lesson in not being butts.

So drop the rolled results for your character and just make them match the rest.
Hey, they've got all the goodies out of it ;) Yeah, they are butts.
I'll drop it on my DM, we'll see.

[BowStreetRunner]

Well, It's a major artifact. Major artifacts break the game rules.
Actually, it's a Minor Artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#deckofManyThings). Artifacts don't break the game rules, they are part of the game rules. Sometimes they offer specific rules that create exceptions to general rules, but this is in fact part of the rules too. You cannot have a game that intentionally includes something that breaks the game rules, because that breaks the game.

The artifact rules state that "No table has been included to randomly generate specific artifacts, since these items should only enter a campaign through deliberate choice on your part." Your DM doesn't understand how to use artifacts responsibly and probably shouldn't use them again until he better understands how to deal with the consequences. But that's on the DM. It's not a function of something breaking the rules.

There are plenty of other places in this game where the designers messed up and created loopholes that break the rules. This isn't one of those cases.

[Skuli]

Actually, it's a Minor Artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#deckofManyThings). Artifacts don't break the game rules, they are part of the game rules. Sometimes they offer specific rules that create exceptions to general rules, but this is in fact part of the rules too. You cannot have a game that intentionally includes something that breaks the game rules, because that breaks the game.

The artifact rules state that "No table has been included to randomly generate specific artifacts, since these items should only enter a campaign through deliberate choice on your part." Your DM doesn't understand how to use artifacts responsibly and probably shouldn't use them again until he better understands how to deal with the consequences. But that's on the DM. It's not a function of something breaking the rules.

There are plenty of other places in this game where the designers messed up and created loopholes that break the rules. This isn't one of those cases.
You're right about the minor artifact. I've also bumped into this discussion (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/78010/what-is-the-reason-behind-one-level-at-a-time-level-advancement-in-dd), I'm still not convinced that RAI is what You describe, but RAW, yeah. Ultimately it's my DM's call, and either way, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

[Rijan_Sai]

Suggestion for too many levels:
Go find a wight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm) and let it hit you with two slam attacks, then kill it. (Even with no magic items, 2 negative levels, and 10 temp hp on the wight, it shouldn't be too difficult with 9th level (or even 8th) maneuvers!)
After 24 hours, voluntarily fail both Fort saves to permanently lose the levels; no dying required!

As for the WBL issue... can't really help you there... that's up to the DM to figure out now. (This is his mess, he needs to clean it up!) Why yes I am a dad... why do you ask?

[JyP]

So basically it ends with return the balance on me, and neither I nor my DM knows what to do with an excess of my exp. He proposed to give me 2 Weapons of Legacy in exchange for 50k exp, but that won't do any good. Drawbacks for 2 of them are too great for my character even with custom ones top of the shelf. So my DM asked me can I get Your guys opinion on this, that doesn't screw over me even more than it is and at the same time isn't OP.
I'm much more optimized already than the rest of the team, so it can't be anything too powerful, and at the same time, I would like to feel, that 50k of exp that I'm giving up is worth the thing.
Any ideas?
Accept one weapon of Legacy, but negotiate to have also added magical items which balance this item drawbacks. Eg, an amulet of constitution to balance hp loss, a belt of strength to balance BAB loss, etc.

Then you can compute how many XPs it would normally cost for a crafter for these added magical items, add the legacy item ritual XP costs, while the DM compute the WBL total (ie, only GP ritual costs for the weapon of Legacy, + GP magic items to balance the drawbacks), and see if it matches.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Isn't level drain a thing in your setting? Fight some undead, you'll probably lose a level or two.

[Rebel7284]

I am unsure why this is so much of an issue.

If you apply the leveling rules correctly, you are essentially a level 17 Warblade with no items, a penalty to saves, and 9th level maneuvers (one 9th level maneuver?).

The Sorcerer has all the magic items and 7th level spells. 7th level spells are better than any maneuver, and 8th level spells that come up in one level are even better.

The Swordsage only has 7th level maneuvers and magic items. Certainly weaker than a level 17 Warblade, but between full items, stealth, and the general defenses that Shadow Hand provides, isn't going to be useless either. Also, being the lowest leveled character, will level the fastest.

I don't see this as particularly unbalanced. Without items and with a penalty to saves, you being higher level makes less of a difference. Any power disparity should disappear in ONE level once the sorcerer can get 8th level spells (and hopefully the swordsage levels up twice in the meantime.) It's certainly a big change, which it's clear you don't like, but as far as power imbalance, it doesn't seem as much of an issue..

[King of Nowhere]

Yeah, there is a web enhancement about that (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a), problem is, I'd still need about 200k gp to get 400k worth of items to get all 50k xp out of me, even if we'd ignore "xp can't drop below required for the level" rule. And that's assuming there is no profit at the crafter's end. And I'd end with wbl of an 18th lvl character, or the wbl of an entire party right now. So not that great of an idea either.

Why would you be paid 2 gp for 1 xp? I never understood different xp-to-gp costs. on crafted items, you pay every xp in the cost 12.5 gp. But if the crafted item casts a spell that has an xp cost, that xp cost is paid 5 gp per xp. totally dumb. all xp should be worth 12.5 gp or close enough.
So you could sell your 50k xp for around 500000 gp. or maybe you could sell 30k xp for 300k gp, and go to a similar level with the rest of the party, while getting a level appropriate gear.

[Skuli]

Isn't level drain a thing in your setting? Fight some undead, you'll probably lose a level or two.

"You can die now 3 times and You'll be ok!" isn't that much of a solution... DM screwed up, so I need to die 3 times and get resurrected from my funds (which I don't have) so that other party members can have something to do and I won't end encounters with one hit? Yeah, next, please.
Same thing basicly


I am unsure why this is so much of an issue.

If you apply the leveling rules correctly, you are essentially a level 17 Warblade with no items, a penalty to saves, and 9th level maneuvers (one 9th level maneuver?).

The Sorcerer has all the magic items and 7th level spells. 7th level spells are better than any maneuver, and 8th level spells that come up in one level are even better.

The Swordsage only has 7th level maneuvers and magic items. Certainly weaker than a level 17 Warblade, but between full items, stealth, and the general defenses that Shadow Hand provides, isn't going to be useless either. Also, being the lowest leveled character, will level the fastest.

I don't see this as particularly unbalanced. Without items and with a penalty to saves, you being higher level makes less of a difference. Any power disparity should disappear in ONE level once the sorcerer can get 8th level spells (and hopefully the swordsage levels up twice in the meantime.) It's certainly a big change, which it's clear you don't like, but as far as power imbalance, it doesn't seem as much of an issue..
I'm the optimized guy here. Im actually arround Tier 2 or even T1 in my party composition. Whilist Sorc is strugling from T3. I try to get most of my character while Sorc is playing "fluff" and first spell that she'll get as 7th lvl spell slot will be Mage’s Magnificent Mansion. Me with the DM basicly forced her to get dissintigrate as a known spell. I'm the "know all the books guy" here, and I spend more time on my character outside of game than in it. As for the Swordsage - he isn't stealthy guy. He's mostly in Diamond Mind and is fond of Mountain Hammer. I basicly end doing his all manouvers, so that he'll be usefull while still keeping his intended character route, and even then he can't remember what he can or can't do. He's quite new to dnd, as the Sorc, and DM to that matter, meanwhile i played RPG's for 15 years now. This is a problem. Spells on a Sorc won't help that much if the spells that she's picking aren't good. And the Swordsage is more around T4 in our party, I'm not sure even that, cause he tries to fit roles that I fill and he is worse at them. I'm the big nuke and army swiss knife here. Keeping things the way they are would end with me trying to not end an encounter before anyone can act and hold myself all the time, not most of the time as it is right now. Well, I could do it all, but it's about fun for all, not just me.


Why would you be paid 2 gp for 1 xp? I never understood different xp-to-gp costs. on crafted items, you pay every xp in the cost 12.5 gp. But if the crafted item casts a spell that has an xp cost, that xp cost is paid 5 gp per xp. totally dumb. all xp should be worth 12.5 gp or close enough.
So you could sell your 50k xp for around 500000 gp. or maybe you could sell 30k xp for 300k gp, and go to a similar level with the rest of the party, while getting a level appropriate gear.
GP to XP value is 5:1. In crafting You're not paying all the diffirence in market price with xp, there is a "crafter gain" included in market price, arround 25% of market price. My math was wrong there, but it would be even worse :P It would take 750k gp (500k gp for materials, 250k gp in profit for the crafter) to to get rid of 50k xp.

[Rebel7284]

I'm the optimized guy here. Im actually arround Tier 2 or even T1 in my party composition. Whilist Sorc is strugling from T3. I try to get most of my character while Sorc is playing "fluff" and first spell that she'll get as 7th lvl spell slot will be Mage’s Magnificent Mansion. Me with the DM basicly forced her to get dissintigrate as a known spell. I'm the "know all the books guy" here, and I spend more time on my character outside of game than in it. As for the Swordsage - he isn't stealthy guy. He's mostly in Diamond Mind and is fond of Mountain Hammer. I basicly end doing his all manouvers, so that he'll be usefull while still keeping his intended character route, and even then he can't remember what he can or can't do. He's quite new to dnd, as the Sorc, and DM to that matter, meanwhile i played RPG's for 15 years now. This is a problem. Spells on a Sorc won't help that much if the spells that she's picking aren't good. And the Swordsage is more around T4 in our party, I'm not sure even that, cause he tries to fit roles that I fill and he is worse at them. I'm the big nuke and army swiss knife here. Keeping things the way they are would end with me trying to not end an encounter before anyone can act and hold myself all the time, not most of the time as it is right now. Well, I could do it all, but it's about fun for all, not just me.


Are you sure you can't talk to the other players and the DM about optimizing their characters a bit more instead of nerfing your own? Something as simple as the DM dropping a Runestaff with good spells for the sorcerer and, a Mineralize Warrior spell on the Swordsage with free LA or something?

[Skuli]

Are you sure you can't talk to the other players and the DM about optimizing their characters a bit more instead of nerfing your own? Something as simple as the DM dropping a Runestaff with good spells for the sorcerer and, a Mineralize Warrior spell on the Swordsage with free LA or something?

Well, I'm always there to help them, but I can't force it on them. And I can't teach them every "what to do if" scenario ;) I try to give my DM some things to give them, but they don't always find it usefull etc.

[SirNMN]

see if you can swap exp for gold privide the experince to a crafter so they don't have to and have them pay you. Since you can spend EXP inplace of gold you should be able to sell seems you could sell it to get gold