Scribe Scroll with assistance

[BowStreetRunner]

The rules for creating magic items state that where prerequisites to create an item include spells that must be known by the item's creator, access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed.

Assuming an Archivist wishes to Scribe a Scroll of Remove Curse, while the Archivist does not currently know the spell but finds a Paladin who does. This is a 3rd level Paladin spell and will therefore become a 3rd level Archivist spell.

The rules for Scribe Scroll set the material cost at 12.5 gp x Spell Level x Caster Level.

Spell level is going to be 3rd regardless, but whose Caster Level would be used? For a Paladin CL 11 is required to cast a 3rd level spell. An Archivist can cast 3rd level spells at CL 5.

Obviously this will impact the cost, so it would be beneficial if the lower caster level could be used. But I don't see where the rules explicitly state whose CL is used when the spell is provided by another spellcaster or by a magic item.

Opinions are appreciated, but what I'd really love to see is something printed in the rules. Barring that, either an FAQ or CustServ response would still be useful.


EDIT: I found an FAQ that states the creator of a magic item does not need to have a high enough caster level to cast a spell if he has access to the spell through another caster or magic item. So if this is the case, then my assumption would be that the CL for the material costs uses the CL of the source of the spell, not the creator's CL. So far that's the closest thing I've found to an answer to this question, but I'd still like something more definitive if it's out there.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You must designate one or the other party as the creator of the scroll at the time of creation. Use the CL of that character.

Strictly speaking, the feat text for scribe scroll says you can create a scroll of a spell -you- know, independent of the more general item crafting rules anyway. I'm reasonably confident you'd have to designate the paladin as the creator of the scroll to abide RAW. Therefore, use the paladin cl.

Sidenote; paladin cl is half class level. The CL was going to be 5 in either case.

[BowStreetRunner]

You must designate one or the other party as the creator of the scroll at the time of creation. Use the CL of that character.

Strictly speaking, the feat text for scribe scroll says you can create a scroll of a spell -you- know, independent of the more general item crafting rules anyway. I'm reasonably confident you'd have to designate the paladin as the creator of the scroll to abide RAW. Therefore, use the paladin cl.

Sidenote; paladin cl is half class level. The CL was going to be 5 in either case.In the example I provided, the paladin doesn't have the feat. Can they still be the creator?

As for the CL, my bad. Sometimes coming up with a good example can be hard. What about if you are using a magic item for the spell and the CL of the item is different than the person with the Scribe Scroll feat?

[Nifft]

If you're using MIC, then you can explicitly collaborate to create magic items, or use another magic item to provide access to a spell.

So a Warlock with Craft Magic Wand could use a few charges from one wand to create another wand.

[BowStreetRunner]

If you're using MIC, then you can explicitly collaborate to create magic items, or use another magic item to provide access to a spell.

So a Warlock with Craft Magic Wand could use a few charges from one wand to create another wand.

Thanks for the reference. I had been focusing on the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. I like what the MIC has to say, as it appears to clarify the PHB and DMG fairly well.


This section reiterates the basics of magic item creation; for more details on creating the different types of magic items, see the information on item creation feats in Chapter 5 of the Player’s Handbook, as well as the appropriate sections in Chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide...
...It’s perfectly acceptable for two or more characters to work together to create a magic item, with each character supplying some of the prerequisites. (In all places where this text refers to the “creator” of a magic item, it includes all characters supplying at least one prerequisite for the item’s creation.) The XP cost must always be paid by the character who supplies the item creation feat required by the item, no matter how many other characters cooperate in its creation.

[Yogibear41]

You use the caster level of the person who supplied the spell so if a paladin supplied lesser restoration which is a 1st level spell for him, the minimum caster level would be 2nd, compared to if a cleric supplied it as a 2nd level spell with a CL of 3rd.

People rag on half casters but look at all those helpful paladins pumping out cheap costing scrolls of lesser restoration for your benefit. :smallsmile:

[Âmesang]

I can't believe the shared crafting concept never occurred to me when I considered sorcerers scribing scrolls of independently researched, unique spells… whilst avoiding getting the Scribe Scroll feat. :smalltongue: I mean, heck, couldn't such a sorcerer just describe every minute detail of the unique spell to a scribing wizard (along with supplying the necessary spell energy)?