Monk / Warlock - Looking for thoughts

[Deox]

My current character has been thrown to a random plane and the party is on a quest to find him. In the mean time, I suggested to the DM I bring in a temporary character. Think I might go with something like:

Shadow Monk 6 / Tome Warlock 4 (Maybe Rogue 1 somewhere for Expertise / Athletics?)

I'd be at level 10. Idea is based on concept provided by another poster. Character would use a familiar (or other means) with Darkness to allow shadow teleportation, use Thorn Whip (any other methods?) to pull a target into the darkness and proceed to hold / grapple an opponent, beating them down while all around, people only hear the screams. Also, the thought of possibly using Cloud of Daggers + Grappling with this sounds interesting, but competes with concentration. Any thoughts on how to combine both, and while I'm thinking about it, Spike Growth?

The party is in the Feywild, and DM approved Tiefling w/ wings as a "Dark" side opposite to the aarakocra, in his realm.

With the above in mind, any suggestions / thoughts / assistance is greatly appreciated.

[Blackbando]

Lightning Lure would also work, and is natively a warlock cantrip, so it wouldn't cost you a tomelock cantrip.

[Deox]

Lightning Lure would also work, and is natively a warlock cantrip, so it wouldn't cost you a tomelock cantrip.

Ahh, Lightning Lure! Forgot about that one. If I recall, it even has 15 ft. reach. Thanks.

[Ventruenox]

Grasp of Hadar (XGtE) is an Eldritch Blast invocation that is the opposite of Repelling Blast. You may pull the target 10' closer, no save.

Possible Munchkin tactict (check with your DM): Taking both Grasp of Hadar and Repelling Blast to use your Eldritch Blast to push 10' and pull 10' through a AoE like Spike Growth. Most sane DMs would only allow you to use one of those invocations per EB, but keep in mind at level 5 you get two beams to roll with. 20' of forced movement can be quite useful.

Also ask about pulling enemies towards you while airborne for additional falling damage (bonus is that landing inflicts Prone condition on your target.)

[Deox]

Grasp of Hadar (XGtE) is an Eldritch Blast invocation that is the opposite of Repelling Blast. You may pull the target 10' closer, no save.

Possible Munchkin tactict (check with your DM): Taking both Grasp of Hadar and Repelling Blast to use your Eldritch Blast to push 10' and pull 10' through a AoE like Spike Growth. Most sane DMs would only allow you to use one of those invocations per EB, but keep in mind at level 5 you get two beams to roll with. 20' of forced movement can be quite useful.

Also ask about pulling enemies towards you while airborne for additional falling damage (bonus is that landing inflicts Prone condition on your target.)

Pretty sure my DM would side with the choose one or the other, regarding Grasp and Repelling. Though to be fair, I do see your argument that blast A "pulls" and blast B "pushes".

Now the pulling while aloft is a good trick. Thanks!

[Citan]

My current character has been thrown to a random plane and the party is on a quest to find him. In the mean time, I suggested to the DM I bring in a temporary character. Think I might go with something like:

Shadow Monk 6 / Tome Warlock 4 (Maybe Rogue 1 somewhere for Expertise / Athletics?)

I'd be at level 10. Idea is based on concept provided by another poster. Character would use a familiar (or other means) with Darkness to allow shadow teleportation, use Thorn Whip (any other methods?) to pull a target into the darkness and proceed to hold / grapple an opponent, beating them down while all around, people only hear the screams. Also, the thought of possibly using Cloud of Daggers + Grappling with this sounds interesting, but competes with concentration. Any thoughts on how to combine both, and while I'm thinking about it, Spike Growth?

The party is in the Feywild, and DM approved Tiefling w/ wings as a "Dark" side opposite to the aarakocra, in his realm.

With the above in mind, any suggestions / thoughts / assistance is greatly appreciated.
Hi!

Well, if you really want to play with Spike Growth, I'd rather suggest to multiclass with Druid... But Shadow/Warlock is solid so if you like it go with it. ;)

Just take note of a few caveats you might address.

1. Attributes
Beware though that you will have to choose either CHA or WIS.
WIS means Stunning Strike, which means stunned, whic is a great condition to apply for you as well as your friends: not only advantage on attacks, but you also made it helpless (no action/reaction).
BUT, you may not like the Ki consumption (cf point 2).

CHA means you'll probably need to pick the Mage Armor invocation if you want as best an AC as possible, but it also means all your spells and cantrips, including Thorns Whip, should work well.

2. Resources
With a 6 / 4 split, you will have only 6 Ki to play with. This may be large, just enough, or really insufficient depending on the kind of feature you want to use the most.
In short:
- Stunning Strike > just enough.
- Flurry of Blows > same.
- Mobility/Defense > same.
Any two among the above = insufficient.
- Spells > should be good.

Considering all that, I'd say your best bet is to...
- WIS high: view Ki mainly as a Stunning Strike source, actually using either Ki or slots to maintain a Darkness depending on your remaining resources when entering an encounter, and disregard other uses unless you are sure you'll have a short rest after this fight.
- CHA high: view Ki first as a way to sustain at least one Darkness or Silence spell every encounter, and the rest to spend solely on occasional Dodge (unless, again, you know there is a short rest coming shortly).

3. Party collateral
Darkness can be a huge pain in the a** for your friends.
The basic way to help reduce the risk of that happening is to use the Familiar to hold a Darkness stone. It also means the familiar is blinded though, not a big deal unless your DM considers the creature would be incapable of understanding simple direct move orders.
Any flying creature will do.
Basic use is to make it go close to ground on your turn and away at the end so your party can still attack enemy party, but it's also a good way to enable your teleportation where it's the most interesting for you, and finally a great way to make a mobile cover against casters/archers (or even a way to protect a dying ally that has several melee enemies closing to, that you cannot reach in time for whatever reason).

If you are not used to Darkness tactics, you will bother your friends at first. But as long as you work together, everyone will enjoy its benefits after a few sessions.
Especially if you use your Ki mainly on it: then don't hesitate to drop concentration on purpose if it would greatly hinder the party's upcoming turns. You can afford it.

4. Split
6 / 4 is good... But, unless you had a specific feat in mind, I'd actually suggest rather 7 / 3. Having one less ASI to spend on DEX is not that big a deal for a Darkness user. Advantage is enough to compensate.

Having one less ASI to spend on WIS or CHA may be a bit troubling in general, but unless you decide to use Stunning Strike as often as possible, or make Thorns Whip your main way of attack, both of which low-probable events imo...

I'd rather get Evasion feature: idea behind is that, because you will be so hard to attack through Darkness with normal means, once enemy faction gets familiar with your way of fighting, it will rely much more on AOE damage, for which attack disadvantage or seeing target is irrelevant. And many of them deal minimum damage.

SO. ;)
I see three main ways to work (there are others).
WIS-main: Monk 7 / Chain Warlock 3: the Stunner
DEX 16, CON 14, WIS 14+2, CHA 14. Pick Devil's Sight and whatever else as Invocations. Pick Mirror Image, Darkness (just in case) and Armor of Agathys as spells.
You're basically a "normal Shadow Monk" that uses Darkness every fight, with slots and priority to keep fuel for Stunning Strike, unless a big fight is coming in which case he'll buff himself first (although it means at least one turn doing nothing else, beware).

CHA-main: Monk 7 / Hexblade Tome Warlock 3 or Monk 6 / Tome Warlock 4 or Monk 5 / Rogue 1 / Warlock 4: the Defender.
Main idea here is to tank by keeping enemies inside your Darkness, as many as possible, as long as possible.
You have several options: either favor your DEX saves and go Evasion, like a normal Monk, using only Thorns Whip when a particularly dangerous enemy need to be kept in check, otherwise using attacks AND taking Sentinel feat.
Or go the full Grapple + Prone tactic, or Thorns Whip + prone tactic: pick Shield Master, use CHA with either a whip or Thorns Whip, using Ki solely on occasional Dodge/Dadge and otherwise just maintaining Darkness. Going this way makes you lose mobility and unarmed attacks, but since you don't plan on moving to much here it's not that big a problem.
Still, it's a specific build.
In both cases, you have an option of grabbing one level of Rogue for Expertise in Athletics, helping making you good at this.

DEX-main: Hexblade Tome Warlock 4 / Monk 6: the Striker
Probably the simplest and overall most effective (or at least versatile). The Thorns Whip will be a rare occurence, not just because of not great CHA, but because you will usually be better by just outright killing.
Pick Elven Accuracy as a feat with starting 17 so you end with 18 DEX, 14 everywhere else secondary. Pick "free Mage Armor" and Devil's Sight as Invocations. Pick Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image, Cloud of Daggers and Shadow Blade as spells.
Pick Thorns Whip, Booming Blade, GreenFlameBlade, Minor Illusion, whatever.
Basic tactic will be just hitting things as often as possible into Darkness. You'll have a high crit and a very nice 17 AC.
For biggest fights, you will have several variants depending on how it goes (and your party): buffing pure damage with Shadow Blade or weapon cantrips, making yourself more resilient with AoA and MI...
Best use of Ki will be Darkness then Flurry of Blows, using Stunning Strike only on enemies that you can't deal with alone and would be dangerous when kept close, which should not happen that often.

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Crap, I have to go train arriving in station. Sorry I'll edit as soon as I can.
In short, I'd stick with your initial idea of Darkness, and go DEX and CHA. ;)
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EDIT: Finally available to finish my post. ;) Enjoy!

[Vogie]

I like the feel - a kind of Void walker champ.
I may suggest Hunger of Hadar at warlock level 5. That'll give you an option for multiple targets, while still fitting your theme. I think it's awesome that One with Shadows will give you 80% of your Shadow monk 11 ability at Warlock level 5 as well.

Of course, switching out Darkness for Shadows of Moil at warlock level 7.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Just going to point out that Grasp of Hadar specifically calls out that it's only once per turn.

[Deox]

Hi!

...Thoughtful post...

Thanks, great insights. The above mentioned class splits were toyed around with, though I felt the 6/4 split with ASIs would help shore up any stat defecincies. To be fair, I may be able to keep DEX low (13 required, maybe 14 total) and go STR instead, provided I can snag Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
While I am a huge fan of the way concentration works in 5e (helping keep casters in check somewhat), I am disappointed in the lack of ways to provide darkness or dim light for Shadow Teleportation without it. That is, I haven't seen any magic items, or similar ways to provide darkness so I can combo with a Cloud of Daggers.

While I also like (actually, love) the Shadow Blade spell, additional competing competition spells is not ideal. Flavor fits so well, however. DM has ruled if I picked up a Sun Blade, the light emitted would not penetrate the darkness created by the spell. So that may be a weapon option.



I like the feel - a kind of Void walker champ.
...
Of course, switching out Darkness for Shadows of Moil at warlock level 7.

Kind of the feel, yeah. Original poster's character was similar set up, but Rogue / Monk / Warlock and a vampire. The Rogue was for the bite attack, and he picked additional utility spells / invocations to fit his fluff. This character won't be reaching 20th level, however. I suspect 11th maybe 12th.

Also, Shadows of Moil is a wonderful suggestion, thanks!

[scoutsdoitbettr]

My current character has been thrown to a random plane and the party is on a quest to find him. In the mean time, I suggested to the DM I bring in a temporary character. Think I might go with something like:

Shadow Monk 6 / Tome Warlock 4 (Maybe Rogue 1 somewhere for Expertise / Athletics?)

I'd be at level 10. Idea is based on concept provided by another poster. Character would use a familiar (or other means) with Darkness to allow shadow teleportation, use Thorn Whip (any other methods?) to pull a target into the darkness and proceed to hold / grapple an opponent, beating them down while all around, people only hear the screams. Also, the thought of possibly using Cloud of Daggers + Grappling with this sounds interesting, but competes with concentration. Any thoughts on how to combine both, and while I'm thinking about it, Spike Growth?

The party is in the Feywild, and DM approved Tiefling w/ wings as a "Dark" side opposite to the aarakocra, in his realm.

With the above in mind, any suggestions / thoughts / assistance is greatly appreciated.

So I actually built and played a character very similar to this. Im just gonna throw the thoughts I had while building out there.

Races:
Ghostwise Halfling (Dex+2, Wis+1, Telepathy within 30ft, Lucky, Nimbleness)
Half-Elf (Dex+2, Wis+1, Cha+1, skills, charm resist, sleep immune, Variant can give you a few spells or weapon profs)
Protector Aasimar (Cha+2, Wis+1, 1 min wings and radiant damage, quick heal)
Winged Tiefling (Cha+2, Int+1, fly speed, a few spells) *Int is not needed for the build at all
Shadar-Kai (Dex+2, Cha+1, a few spells, and a free teleport with resistance) *UA version for now, will be released fully in MTF

Background can help with some RP stuff and skills, can be whichever you want really

Shadow Monk X
This is your bread and butter, pretty self explanatory

Warlock 3/4
Warlock is great to dip into as you get alot for a few levels. Devils Sight is a must for this build. I looked at all the subclasses when making mine and they can all work but heres a few notes

GOO lock- gives telepathy, and the extended spell list is pretty good, although this lends more toward the effects of charm and effecting the mind

Hexblade- Gives additional debuff with hexblades curse, and the extended spells are good for blasting while staying in melee, allows you to make a weapon deal extra CHA damage instead of dex or str, this is not that great as you will want to still use Dex for damage, although if you sac dex a bit and boost CHA then can be nice

Raven Queen UA- This is what I ended up going with, but only if the DM allows it. You get a raven familiar that is amazing for scouting, the extended spells are great as well, you will get false life and sanctuary, silence and spiritual weapon. If your DM allows you to utilize your raven as a typical familiar then you wont need Chain Pact and can use Tome to get a few more spells.

The Seeker UA- This is also a decent choice if allowed as you have a damaging aura which also gives resistance to all damage.

Ultimately I went with Raven Queen and Shadar Kai, became a monk of the Raven Queen basically. It was a very cool build. I like your idea of sucking them into the darkness and killing them but remember it may not work quite how you want it to, ask your DM and alot of spells and abilities can be reskinned to fit the narrative and give it more a feel of what you want. Happy Hunting! :)

[Deox]

Raven Queen UA- This is what I ended up going with, but only if the DM allows it. You get a raven familiar that is amazing for scouting, the extended spells are great as well, you will get false life and sanctuary, silence and spiritual weapon. If your DM allows you to utilize your raven as a typical familiar then you wont need Chain Pact and can use Tome to get a few more spells.




I think this is a great idea. I could swap GOO for Raven Queen. I went GOO mainly for the telepathy as I thought that fit the horror aspect.

[scoutsdoitbettr]

Shadow Monk 6 / Tome Warlock 4 (Maybe Rogue 1 somewhere for Expertise / Athletics?).

You can get expertise in athletics from the Brawny feat as well. Its also UA but its pretty good. Great for grappling.

[Deox]

You can get expertise in athletics from the Brawny feat as well. Its also UA but its pretty good. Great for grappling.

Was that one of the racial feats? If so, was it coupled / published in XGtE? Or was it one of the skill feats that did not make it in?

[scoutsdoitbettr]

Was that one of the racial feats? If so, was it coupled / published in XGtE? Or was it one of the skill feats that did not make it in?

It didn't make it into XGtE. It was an additional combat feat in UA. Its basically the Goliath racial powerful build but in a feat form.

-STR +1
-proficiency in athletics or if you already have it double proficiency (expertise)
-you count as 1 size larger, and carry capacity doubles

[Deox]

It didn't make it into XGtE. It was an additional combat feat in UA. Its basically the Goliath racial powerful build but in a feat form.

-STR +1
-proficiency in athletics or if you already have it double proficiency (expertise)
-you count as 1 size larger, and carry capacity doubles

Nice! I definitely like it. I think it fits pretty well.

[Deox]

Following up, are there any advantages I am not immediately seeing with having Lightning Lure / Thorn Whip on top of Grasp of Hadar? My initial thought is if I have Grasp, I would not need Lure or Whip.

[adolann]

Following up, are there any advantages I am not immediately seeing with having Lightning Lure / Thorn Whip on top of Grasp of Hadar? My initial thought is if I have Grasp, I would not need Lure or Whip.

The only real advantage would be mixing up what you are going up against. Lightning Lure has a shorter range, but is a STR saving throw to resist. Eldritch Blast with Grasp is a Ranged Spell attack with a pretty good range. Thorn Whip is a Melee Spell attack (at 30'!).

If you have a high AC opponent you need to pull, Lightning Lure may be a better option.
If you are in melee, you can use Thorn Whip without disadvantage, since it is a Melee attack.

[Deox]

The only real advantage would be mixing up what you are going up against. Lightning Lure has a shorter range, but is a STR saving throw to resist. Eldritch Blast with Grasp is a Ranged Spell attack with a pretty good range. Thorn Whip is a Melee Spell attack (at 30'!).

If you have a high AC opponent you need to pull, Lightning Lure may be a better option.
If you are in melee, you can use Thorn Whip without disadvantage, since it is a Melee attack.

I see the value, sure. Though, with an +4 / +5 modifier, +4 proficiency and +2 Rod of the Pact Keeper, I think my Spell Attack Mod might be fine, especially if I can generate some advantage.

[Dudewithknives]

It is an interesting idea but I hope you rolled stats and did really well because you are going to need everything but int.

At higher levels grappling becomes almost impossible due to the number of enemies that are too big. If your DM uses a lot of npcs as enemies this would work much better.

[Deox]

It is an interesting idea but I hope you rolled stats and did really well because you are going to need everything but int.

At higher levels grappling becomes almost impossible due to the number of enemies that are too big. If your DM uses a lot of npcs as enemies this would work much better.

Character is good striker, or harrier. Unfortunately, very little in the way of DEX / CON / INT. Stats are enough to meet MC requirements. DM gave Gauntlets of Ogre Power, so that is going to help. Brawny (as previously suggested) gives that additional bonus to Athletics, however, you are correct in mentioning many enemies will be "too big". DM does mix up fighting encounters with lots of minions, though.

I suspect some potions of Enlarge could help a lot.