Seeking opinions on my possible build

[poopyloop]

Hey guys
So me and my group are starting a game of Out of the Abyss and we'll be adding a few newbies into the mix, so should be a lot of fun. Don't know much about the module, and I'd like this thread free of spoilers from it if possible.

Anyway, since I don't know who all is going to be playing what I haven't set this build or anything in stone but here's alittle something I came up with I might be looking to try, tell me what you think

Overall, I'm thinking I'll go Wood Elf (for extra move mostly) and it'll be something like Rogue Assassin 3/Fighter Battle Master 5/(revised) Ranger Deepstalker 3, other than that prob going either fighter or rogue the rest of the way, not sure how far OOTA goes

Mainly focusing on Archery, crossbow in particular, and focusing mainly on maneuvering across the battlefield and dishing out a lot of damage.
With Deepstalker's addition to initiative, and Ranger's advantage on initiative, I'll likely be going early on in combat, getting sneak attack easier (and I'll be going for a stealth type character so I should be able to crit kill a few enemies before some battles even begin) and the fighter for the extra attacks and archery feats I'll need. If you want any more specifics about what I'm planning on taking I'll gladly dig up my notes and map the whole thing out.

I've seen a lot of arguments on what Archery build is best (not super focused on optimization at all, but if something is lacking or inferior, I'd like to know), this is my little idea for one that I originally had for a campaign we were going to start at lv 11, but the game never panned out. This game, we're starting at lv 1, so my main question is what route to take in regards to multi-classing and when. I'm thinking I want to start out as Rogue, then probably multi-class right away, but going straight to level 4 for X-bow expert feat might be too essential.

[strangebloke]

Hey guys
So me and my group are starting a game of Out of the Abyss and we'll be adding a few newbies into the mix, so should be a lot of fun. Don't know much about the module, and I'd like this thread free of spoilers from it if possible.

Anyway, since I don't know who all is going to be playing what I haven't set this build or anything in stone but here's alittle something I came up with I might be looking to try, tell me what you think

Overall, I'm thinking I'll go Wood Elf (for extra move mostly) and it'll be something like Rogue Assassin 3/Fighter Battle Master 5/(revised) Ranger Deepstalker 3, other than that prob going either fighter or rogue the rest of the way, not sure how far OOTA goes

Mainly focusing on Archery, crossbow in particular, and focusing mainly on maneuvering across the battlefield and dishing out a lot of damage.
With Deepstalker's addition to initiative, and Ranger's advantage on initiative, I'll likely be going early on in combat, getting sneak attack easier (and I'll be going for a stealth type character so I should be able to crit kill a few enemies before some battles even begin) and the fighter for the extra attacks and archery feats I'll need. If you want any more specifics about what I'm planning on taking I'll gladly dig up my notes and map the whole thing out.

I've seen a lot of arguments on what Archery build is best (not super focused on optimization at all, but if something is lacking or inferior, I'd like to know), this is my little idea for one that I originally had for a campaign we were going to start at lv 11, but the game never panned out. This game, we're starting at lv 1, so my main question is what route to take in regards to multi-classing and when. I'm thinking I want to start out as Rogue, then probably multi-class right away, but going straight to level 4 for X-bow expert feat might be too essential.

I mean, this'll be fine, but this kind of frenetic multiclassing really isn't optimal. You'll have a very wide base of abilities, but you're going to be lacking any really powerful class features, and you'll probably be missing out on some ASIs no matter how you do it.

[poopyloop]

I mean, this'll be fine, but this kind of frenetic multiclassing really isn't optimal. You'll have a very wide base of abilities, but you're going to be lacking any really powerful class features, and you'll probably be missing out on some ASIs no matter how you do it.

I don't think I'll really be missing out on any ASIs, if I need any badly, I can just keep going into Ranger or Rogue to lv 4 rather than stay at 3. Also Fighters and Rogues have extras to top it off, so I might be hurting for them earlier on but once the build takes off I don't think I'll have any issues there.
And I personally think that Fighters and Rangers have some of their stronger abilities at lower levels (mainly the deepstalker's lv 3 abilities and the fighter's Action Surge, obviously I'll be missing out on the second one but I don't think we'd be playing to that high of a level anyway). Granted I will be missing out on the rogue's higher level abilities, some of which are very awesome, but I think what I'm gaining by multi-classing here are decent compensation. Is there anything in particular you have in mind I'll be missing out on? I'd also be open to other builds as well.

[poolio]

I've been running a out of the abyss or "oota" game for a while, and i hate both the rangers in my game lol especially the deepstalker, there's an emphasis on survival in this game, early on at least, trying to be as spoiler free as possible here, and they just make all that super trivial, not to mention their ability to be invisible while in darkness even to things with darkvision, so in the underdark they're invisible to everything all the time, yeah real fun from the dm's side of the table, I'm also not a fan of multiclassing just for mechanical reasons, it just feels to power gamey and try hard, but to each their own,

Anyway sorry for the tangent there, back to the question,

It'll work well, just take some time to get everything you want, I'd probably ditch going for extra attacks sense you can only assassinate once per turn and crossbows can only make one attack, so I probably wouldn't bother with x-bow expert and just carry a dagger (or rapier in your case) for close range backup.

[Kyrinthic]

(and I'll be going for a stealth type character so I should be able to crit kill a few enemies before some battles even begin)


You may want to see what the rest of the party is doing if you are expecting to get much mileage from this. You only get advantage on attacks for going first, the crits only happen if the enemy basically doesn't notice any of your party. If they are all stealthy enough (or at least the solid majority), it becomes much more likely.

Also realize you will probably only crit kill a single enemy per opportunity as a lot of the damage adders you are using are once per round.

Make sure you grab the sharpshooter feat, if you are likely to have advantage a lot, you can get a lot of extra damage from it.

[poopyloop]

I've been running a out of the abyss or "oota" game for a while, and i hate both the rangers in my game lol especially the deepstalker, there's an emphasis on survival in this game, early on at least, trying to be as spoiler free as possible here, and they just make all that super trivial, not to mention their ability to be invisible while in darkness even to things with darkvision, so in the underdark they're invisible to everything all the time, yeah real fun from the dm's side of the table, I'm also not a fan of multiclassing just for mechanical reasons, it just feels to power gamey and try hard, but to each their own,

Anyway sorry for the tangent there, back to the question,

It'll work well, just take some time to get everything you want, I'd probably ditch going for extra attacks sense you can only assassinate once per turn and crossbows can only make one attack, so I probably wouldn't bother with x-bow expert and just carry a dagger (or rapier in your case) for close range backup.

I brought up this idea for my build to my DM with the worry that it might be too strong in a setting where it was always dark/dim lighting, he came back to me with the OK (and it looks like someone else is MCing into one as well with a bladelock main). Still feel like it might be too good. He did mention it was pretty heavy on survival, so I'm wondering if he'll run into the same frustrations as you, what with 2 of us in the party. I think I'll let him know about this. I only wanted it for the slight advantage some of the time at night combo-ing with my sneak, not to be overpowered in this campaign.
And I'm taking crossbow expert so that I can ignore the loading ability of the crossbows, which will let me attack multiple times. I know there was some argument over the intent of the rule, but I don't see it working any other way myself.
As for MC-ing, I think it's pretty balanced seeing as you more often than not give up your higher level abilities for ones most people could get earlier on. I think it's only really worth it if you combo them well, but then there are times where they become very good. I see most people say it isn't worth it to give up the higher level abilities. But our DM seems to be encouraging it for this game as he said it will be available right away, I think he's excited to see the combos we come up with.



You may want to see what the rest of the party is doing if you are expecting to get much mileage from this. You only get advantage on attacks for going first, the crits only happen if the enemy basically doesn't notice any of your party. If they are all stealthy enough (or at least the solid majority), it becomes much more likely.

Also realize you will probably only crit kill a single enemy per opportunity as a lot of the damage adders you are using are once per round.

Make sure you grab the sharpshooter feat, if you are likely to have advantage a lot, you can get a lot of extra damage from it.

So far, we have a sun-soul monk, a bladelock/deepstalker, and an artificer/assassin, so I think there will at least be opportunities to team up with a smaller group of them to sneak and nab a kill or 2 before combat officially begins, especially with the other assassin. If not, assassin is, imo, the best rogue option for this build anyway.

[A Fat Dragon]

I’d say to not take points in Ranger, as it doesn’t seem... optimal. I’m guessing you went gloomstalker for better stealth, I presume?

Assassin Rogue 3/Fighter X is a very formidable combination, but might I ask why you took Fighter? I’m guessing Multi-Attack, Action Surge, and Combat Manouvers?

It could be a very good build even with only Assassin 3/Gloomstalker X.


Also, if you’re going Archery Fighter, take the UA Sharpshooter subclass. Or if you want more Nature, UA Scout seems pretty viable. And, if you’re worried about initiative, putting a few levels in a class doesn’t seem to be the optimal solution, in my opinion.

Also, grabbing Skulker, Mobile, and Alert might be a good way to satisfy your mobile, stealthy, fore-running character build if your game allows Feats.

And, if you’re still intent on going your build, grab Fighter or Ranger first. Having proficiencies in all weapons off the bat, and Medium Armor/Light Armor (+ Shields and Heavy Armor for going Fighter first) is very nice, even if you won’t use them all the time. I’d recommend grabbing Fighter first, and then building Dex so you can multi class into Ranger and Rogue without having a problem. If you don’t take Fighter first, then plan on leaving your dump-stat somewhere else, as you’ll need at lest 13 Strength, and 13 Dexterity I believe.

[poolio]

I brought up this idea for my build to my DM with the worry that it might be too strong in a setting where it was always dark/dim lighting, he came back to me with the OK (and it looks like someone else is MCing into one as well with a bladelock main). Still feel like it might be too good. He did mention it was pretty heavy on survival, so I'm wondering if he'll run into the same frustrations as you, what with 2 of us in the party. I think I'll let him know about this. I only wanted it for the slight advantage some of the time at night combo-ing with my sneak, not to be overpowered in this campaign.
And I'm taking crossbow expert so that I can ignore the loading ability of the crossbows, which will let me attack multiple times. I know there was some argument over the intent of the rule, but I don't see it working any other way myself.
As for MC-ing, I think it's pretty balanced seeing as you more often than not give up your higher level abilities for ones most people could get earlier on. I think it's only really worth it if you combo them well, but then there are times where they become very good. I see most people say it isn't worth it to give up the higher level abilities. But our DM seems to be encouraging it for this game as he said it will be available right away, I think he's excited to see the combos we come up with.


I have two guys in the game that grabbed ranger, i feel specifically for the advantages to always being in the underdark, but first let me say sorry, i think my previous comment came off as a little judgmental, and i think it was just frustration at seeing someone else trying what looked like the same shenanigans as I'm used to, but you seem like you would be a much better player to have at a table then my mary-sue having munchkins, you don't seem like the kind that would argue with the dm's judgment, especially having already talked about it with him and getting the go ahead,

And if what you're going for is multiple attacks then I'd probably stick with ranger, they get a couple ways to fire off a bunch of attacks right away with some spells and abilities, and that as a surprise ambush round could do a lot of good, especially if someone is packing the sleep spell, you volley the enemy group and then boom, where once there was a group all to strong to be put to sleep now sits a bunch of kiddies ready for nap time,

And i agree with you on multiclassing, it is pretty balanced, and can help give your PC a little more of whatever kind of feel you trying to get, i had a shadow monk/warlock once (before i noticed how op that combo could be lol) who i was trying to build as a more mystical type of ninja, so i had his background in place to make sense why he would start developing these "dark ninja arts" techniques, I'll save everyone his story, but in short i like multiclassing to make sense, both of my players have literally no reason other then "cause the abilities" so again that was just me being salty lol

But if you're dm doesn't care than it's not my place to say he's wrong,

So in summary, build looks good, should function how you want, and this particular campaign is one of my favorites so you all should have a great time :)

[poopyloop]

I’d say to not take points in Ranger, as it doesn’t seem... optimal. I’m guessing you went gloomstalker for better stealth, I presume?

Assassin Rogue 3/Fighter X is a very formidable combination, but might I ask why you took Fighter? I’m guessing Multi-Attack, Action Surge, and Combat Manouvers?

It could be a very good build even with only Assassin 3/Gloomstalker X.


Also, if you’re going Archery Fighter, take the UA Sharpshooter subclass. Or if you want more Nature, UA Scout seems pretty viable. And, if you’re worried about initiative, putting a few levels in a class doesn’t seem to be the optimal solution, in my opinion.

Also, grabbing Skulker, Mobile, and Alert might be a good way to satisfy your mobile, stealthy, fore-running character build if your game allows Feats.

And, if you’re still intent on going your build, grab Fighter or Ranger first. Having proficiencies in all weapons off the bat, and Medium Armor/Light Armor (+ Shields and Heavy Armor for going Fighter first) is very nice, even if you won’t use them all the time. I’d recommend grabbing Fighter first, and then building Dex so you can multi class into Ranger and Rogue without having a problem. If you don’t take Fighter first, then plan on leaving your dump-stat somewhere else, as you’ll need at lest 13 Strength, and 13 Dexterity I believe.

Yeah, I don't think my build is exactly optimal, I'm more doing it for the nice mix of abilities and flavor. Don't want to outshine everyone else in the campaign anyway so it's ok if it isn't optimized. I more so just wanted opinions/advice if anyone saw a big flaw in the build or anything, or if something else is strictly better.

I'm taking Ranger partly due to the fact that it probably fits my character the best flavor-wise, and deepstalker adds a lot of neat little bonuses; extra attack and move once per battle, extra initiative, and the invisibility. The other Ranger abilities are just icing on the cake for me. The reasons you listed for fighter are exactly the reasons I'm looking to take it. I think battlemaster is good for archery builds as it supplies support to the front-liners, and most of the benefits I can get from Sharpshooter I can pick up from the 2 main feats I'm aiming for, being crossbow expert and sharpshooter (not sure why it has the same name as a subclass). The Scout subclass seems pretty mediocre imo, like a watered down version of Ranger with a dash of Battlemaster.

The feats you listed are definitely on my list to take later on, assuming I don't need a lot of ASIs to bump my stats.
I planned on taking Rogue first mostly for the extra (and freedom of choice of a) skill and proficiencies. Rogue just seemed like a good starting point to me, not any real big reason for it. I wasn't planning on changing out of my light armor (as i'm going to be DEX based) but I did forget about the 13 STR requirement for fighter MC. Might start with Fighter. It's been really hard to choose the initial few levels for this build and any way I go with it I second-guess myself.



I have two guys in the game that grabbed ranger, i feel specifically for the advantages to always being in the underdark, but first let me say sorry, i think my previous comment came off as a little judgmental, and i think it was just frustration at seeing someone else trying what looked like the same shenanigans as I'm used to, but you seem like you would be a much better player to have at a table then my mary-sue having munchkins, you don't seem like the kind that would argue with the dm's judgment, especially having already talked about it with him and getting the go ahead,

And if what you're going for is multiple attacks then I'd probably stick with ranger, they get a couple ways to fire off a bunch of attacks right away with some spells and abilities, and that as a surprise ambush round could do a lot of good, especially if someone is packing the sleep spell, you volley the enemy group and then boom, where once there was a group all to strong to be put to sleep now sits a bunch of kiddies ready for nap time,

And i agree with you on multiclassing, it is pretty balanced, and can help give your PC a little more of whatever kind of feel you trying to get, i had a shadow monk/warlock once (before i noticed how op that combo could be lol) who i was trying to build as a more mystical type of ninja, so i had his background in place to make sense why he would start developing these "dark ninja arts" techniques, I'll save everyone his story, but in short i like multiclassing to make sense, both of my players have literally no reason other then "cause the abilities" so again that was just me being salty lol

But if you're dm doesn't care than it's not my place to say he's wrong,

So in summary, build looks good, should function how you want, and this particular campaign is one of my favorites so you all should have a great time :)


I didn't take anything as too judgmental or anything, it's all good. I can imagine PCs breaking the game can get quite annoying at times, especially if they're just purposely building for power. Especially since deepstalker ranger seems very strong in this particular setting. I'll definitely have a talk with our DM about it. The last thing I want is to out-shine all the other PCs, especially since we have some new players. And I try to keep the arguing to a minimum lol. As for straight Ranger, haven't really looked into all the spells they have access to, I mostly just picked this build cuz it seemed like a fun combo and fit the character.
And I agree, I think MCing should make sense more than anything. Like, you want the ability sure, but your character should have a reason for it not just because they want another power. A paladin shouldn't just MC into Fiend Warlock (unless his god has forsaken him or something, that would be cool) but it needs to fit flavor-wise.