Strongest Familiar

[Falontani]

As the title suggests, I want to figure out the best build to get the most powerful familiar without your familiar becoming an animal companion, or a mount. Just the most powerful familiar. I would prefer 3.5, but pathfinder is allowed

[Venger]

As the title suggests, I want to figure out the best build to get the most powerful familiar without your familiar becoming an animal companion, or a mount. Just the most powerful familiar. I would prefer 3.5, but pathfinder is allowed

Can you tell us anything about your build?

How are you getting the familiar?

Are you a caster or a brute?

Do you need your familiar to do combattish things or not?

just as there isn't really an answer for the most powerful build, there isn't an answer for the most powerful familiar in a vacuum, just one that best suits your needs.

the list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553103-Updated-3-5-Complete-List-of-Possible-Familiars) of all possible familiars is here, once there's more information we can point you in the right direction

[Falontani]

Hypothetical build. I want the familiar that is as powerful as we can get it; either brutish or spellcaster. However we can do it.

[Endarire]

I'm a big fan of the Hummingbird familiar ("Dragon" #323 page 98) since it gives +4 initiative which stacks with other stuff.

It's probably the best overall familiar bonus. If you want a familiar that's useful as a separate unit and you find the familiar's bonus to its master ignorable, an Improved Familiar is probably best. Alternatively, a Raven holding wands/staves with Use Magic Device ranks (since you, as the master, have UMD ranks) is also useful as an extra 'spell platform.'

[Venger]

Hypothetical build. I want the familiar that is as powerful as we can get it; either brutish or spellcaster. However we can do it.

then in a vacuum, go with either imp or quasit.

[Jowgen]

My 2 coppers: A good starting point might be to get an Urban Companion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) familiar as the base. 3/4 HP rather than half.

[Elkad]

You can get pretty far with just UMD. Then you load your familiar up with items, the same way you drag an Expert up to Tier2.

[Falontani]

Example: Duskblade takes Obtain Familiar to acquire a familiar, and then takes Improved Familiar to gain access to a Hippogriff Familiar. He then takes levels in Fleshwarper to grant his Hippogriff familiar +1 size category, +3 NA, a 40 ft tentacle attack (it has a 5 ft reach for tiny, doubling in reach each size category up).

Giving us a Huge Hippogriff with 1/2 the Duskblade's HP, his BAB, his saves, more armor, and a huge reach on tentacle attack. Then apply a Psychic Reformation to change what feats the Hippogriff chassis has.

__

Different Example: Krinth Dread Necromancer with the Shadowform Familiar feat on an Imp, giving us an Incorporeal Imp with access to wands/staves

[Soranar]

As the title suggests, I want to figure out the best build to get the most powerful familiar without your familiar becoming an animal companion, or a mount. Just the most powerful familiar. I would prefer 3.5, but pathfinder is allowed

A gold dragon wyrmling (the red and silver dragon wyrmling can do the same I think) can transform into any medium sized animal at will and has several feats

A legendary ape (medium animal) has like 30 STR (and it gets martial weapon proficiency from being a dragon)

If you're remotely powerful then your familiar will have high BAB too

So you get a 30 STR monstrosity with your BAB

or

a lantern archon can zap anything and completely ignore DR for 2d6 damage
it also has a bunch of interesting defenses and abilities

[RaiKirah]

With the Enspell Familiar feat and the ability to cast Shapechange your familiar is whatever it wants to be. Shapechange explicitly disallows your original Su abilities, so Fleshwarper enhancements are probably lost. However, Polymorph does not mention this, so you might be able to have your familiar benefit from Fleshwarper enhancements while Polymorphed.

[Troacctid]

The best familiars IMO are Lantern Archon and Coure Eladrin. They're super strong and they have tons of utility.

[Ramza00]

then in a vacuum, go with either imp or quasit.

Imp and Quasit is good. Mephit are also similar to Imps and Quasit for the same reasons.

Beguilers are also good. When I say Beguiler I do not mean the base class but instead this. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/0/0d/Beguiler_Christopher_Rush.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180125215254

The nice thing about beguilers is you lose fly, but you still retain the ability the ability to speak Common and use magic items with its prehensile tail. Oh yeah your familiar has a constant true seeing effect, a bonus to hide, plus small size and decent dex make them them good scouts.

Pseudodragons are also good. They have flight, blindsense and telepathy. (Telepathy is even better if your DM allows you to pick your familiar's feats and thus choose mindsight.)

There are couple true dragons that can be as familiars, Silver Dragons are one of the best with Alternate Form (animals and humanoids), the ability to use magic items, a fort save or be paralyzed breath weapon.

There are more good familiars with improved familiar but these are off the top of my head.

[Yogibear41]

My 2 coppers: A good starting point might be to get an Urban Companion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) familiar as the base. 3/4 HP rather than half.


If your group interprets this ability as compatible with the improved familiar feats then ranger or druid is probably your best bet as a base class. Druid would give more AC, while ranger would give a higher BAB. Then take the dragon familiar or something like a winter wolf that already has high strength.

From personal experience I have found the Imp's fast healing and detect magic at will highly useful as well, although its not super great in combat on its own.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Take the changeling wizard's morphic familiar ACF, from Races of Eberron, the Improved Familiar feat, and the spell sovereign PrC, from Dragon #357. Now your familiar can be any regular or improved familiar, as well as any living spell of whatever level you can gain from spell sovereign (which depends on your class level). This means you gain at-will spells of up to 4th level, with just a round of prep time.

[edit] The Bestiary of Krynn has the ambient tempest PrC, which increases the familiar's spell level to (potentially) 6.

[Âmesang]

I've highly enjoyed playing with a quasit familiar not only for its native abilities (turning invisible, turning into a bat/wolf, speaking with dexterous hands combined with ranks in Use Magic Device), but also for potential tricks via polymorph and magic jar (the former turning it into other Outsiders such as Nightmares—minus its special/supernatural abilities, admittedly—and the latter for a theoretical ability to permanently trap souls, akin to Shadow Demons and Ak'chazar Rakshasha).

[Yogibear41]

Take the changeling wizard's morphic familiar ACF, from Races of Eberron, the Improved Familiar feat, and the spell sovereign PrC, from Dragon #357. Now your familiar can be any regular or improved familiar, as well as any living spell of whatever level you can gain from spell sovereign (which depends on your class level). This means you gain at-will spells of up to 4th level, with just a round of prep time.

[edit] The Bestiary of Krynn has the ambient tempest PrC, which increases the familiar's spell level to (potentially) 6.

Is there anyway to have a metamagic'd living spell?

Perhaps to turn targeted spells into AOE affects so you can make a living spell out of them?

[Falontani]

Afb, but I believe it specifically said you could as long as it was below the spell level

[Nifft]

For direct combat, I'd look at a Wizard 3 / Totemist 2 / Soulcaster 10

Trade out your class feature Familiar -> take the Obtain Familiar feat (so your familiar advances with caster level instead of Wizard level) -> take the Share Soulmeld feat.

Got access to Dragon Mag? Then you also want issue 280's Extra Familiar and Enspell Familiar (iirc the latter also appears in Dragon Compendium); beg your DM to allow your Soulmelds to count as spells for the sake of Enspell Familiar.


For an indirect shenanigan build, do the same thing except Wizard 3 / Incarnate 2 / Soulcaster 10

... and use Mage Spectacles to give your Familiar(s) an obscene UMD check. They can sit on your shoulders and use your scrolls & wands as extra standard actions every turn. You have Scribe Scroll so it's quite reasonable that you'll be able to make a stock-pile of doom with some downtime.

At low levels (6+), they can still spit acid every turn, even if you're poor. But turning wealth into gear, and gear into bonus action spells, that's real ultimate power.

[Elkad]

From personal experience I have found the Imp's fast healing and detect magic at will highly useful as well, although its not super great in combat on its own.

I love Imps.

An Imp doesn't count as muscle (at least without polymorph+), but Perfect:50 flight, invisibility, DR+fast healing, and outsider proficiencies means it's very good at kiting. It just takes a long time to win.

Grounded melee types are of course beatable. (5'/round of levitation would do). As is any melee you fly faster than.

Clumsy but faster melee flyers you can kite. Utilize your full speed climbing to stay above them. I think an Imp of a L7 Wizard could drive off a CR7 Black Dragon with just archery and choice of starting position, but it would take a VERY long time (Average of about 1hp damage any round you don't have to double-move. Bring lots of arrows...),and you are allowed zero mistakes in positioning. And of course the Dragon could just fly away whenever it wanted.

Grounded opponents with a backup bow are usually OK. Excellent AC (starting with 28 at L7, assuming nothing but a Mage Armor, and much more with better buffs and hand-me-down gear from your master). Again you can turn invisible if you need to heal. A confirmed crit or a 2nd hit in the same round will kill you though, but that should take luck.

An actual archer will kill you. As will rays, if you are silly enough to get that close.


And that's completely discounting UMD. If the Imp has UMD and a bag of wands all bets are off.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human Paragon 1/ Wizard 2/ Fighter 1/ Human Paragon 2/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Incantatrix 4/ Eldritch Knight 4, it gets your BAB +16.
Optimize Spellcraft, max Constitution. HP is 6d10+4d8+4d6+6d4, average 83 base, not counting Constitution or any other bonuses.
Feats include Persistent Spell, Improved Toughness, Obtain Familiar, Celestial Familiar.
You count as a Wizard 19, as every class except Fighter allows you to cast arcane spells per the wording of Obtain Familiar.

Get any of the Outsider celestial familiar choices, it doesn't matter which one.
Draconic Polymorph or even Shapechange it into any number of powerful forms, including Outsider forms, and use Metamagic Effect to make that Persistent.
Buff it with Greater Luminous Armor, (Persistent) Shield, Enhance Familiar, Fortify Familiar, and an array of other spells that make it more durable and more powerful.
Use Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability to give it up to six spells, each of which is up to 5th level. A Quickened 5th level spell still counts as a 5th level spell.

[Vizzerdrix]

You can do some mighty fine things with a spellstitched undead familiar and running it through the ole chaos feat shuffle.

[flamewolf393]

Dunno about the most powerful, but monkey with a bag of wands is always fun as hell.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Oh, and if you take Obtain Familiar for my changing changeling familiar o' doom, you gain a lot more Int and AC, as the regular familiar bonuses SHOULD stack with those from spell sovereign. The other abilities don't really stack, though, as all the abilities a regular familiar gains that a living spell familiar doesn't are pretty much all in the first few wizard levels anyway.

[SangoProduction]

As the title suggests, I want to figure out the best build to get the most powerful familiar without your familiar becoming an animal companion, or a mount. Just the most powerful familiar. I would prefer 3.5, but pathfinder is allowed

Depends greatly based on what you want. But, if you are just looking for raw blasting power, then my Pokemon Druid (who exchanges AC for Urban Familiar, and then gets bonus familiars) can blast for 50d8 AoE damage by level 5 using Shocker Lizards, every round without using a reasource.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540134-Extra-Familiar-The-Menagerie-Warden

[Cosi]

Mirror Mephit.

At 14th level the Mirror Mephit's simulacrum SLA creates a 7th level copy of you. This copy is powerful enough to have its own Mirror Mephit familiar, which can also create a simulacrum of you.

I think "infinite 7th level casters" is probably the most power you can get out of your familiar. And it's not like simulacrum is bad before 14th level.

[Nizaris]

I'm a big fan of getting a small aether elemental (if using Pathfinder). 480 foot "move someone to a very disadvantageous position" lets you really mess with battlefield positioning. The sad thing is that you get it by being an aether Kineticist and it's better than you at it.

[Quarian Rex]

Familiar Archetypes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/) from Pathfinder might be something that you want to have a gander at, particularly the Mauler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/mauler-familiar-archetype/) if you're looking for a more physical option (though I tend to think that the Protector (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/protector-familiar-archetype/) and Valet (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/valet-familiar-archetype/) are the most useful).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Mirror Mephit.

At 14th level the Mirror Mephit's simulacrum SLA creates a 7th level copy of you. This copy is powerful enough to have its own Mirror Mephit familiar, which can also create a simulacrum of you.

I think "infinite 7th level casters" is probably the most power you can get out of your familiar. And it's not like simulacrum is bad before 14th level.You got me thinking for a bit that you might have just beaten me out for "strongest familiar," but then I realized that the shapechanging familiar build I proposed can do that, too. :smallwink: Along with having a like number of free living spells, to boot.

[ShurikVch]

Watchspider (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) may be OK for 3rd level

Dragon #329 allow to use Swarms as a Familiar (via Improved Familiar feat), including such as Ephemeral, Dread Blossom, and Hellwasp

Darkness Familiar feat (Dragon #322) can give you a Shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm) at 9th level, and Cloaker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cloaker.htm) or Wraith (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wraith.htm) at 14th level

Also, description of Dweomervore (Dragon #307) says they're sometimes employed as a Familiars (even if not for long); just cast Planar Familiar (https://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a) on it to turn i Axiomatic, an it wouldn't ditch you

[NecroDancer]

The answer is obviously a cat familiar.

Cats are not only shown to reduce stress levels but they can often help owners suffering from depression, a study showed that cat owners are 30 percent less likely to die of a heart attack. Cats also hunt down vermin such as rats or mice so you don't need to worry about pests getting into your valuable supply of grain.

Cats also make you seem more attractive, a British pole showed that 82 percent of woman are more likely to date someone with a cat than without a cat.

Cats can also be litter boxed trained so you don't need to worry about taking them outside to use the restroom (this is very good if your busy adventuring in the Abyss, undead tomb, elemental plane of air, etc).

Cats are also more hygienic than other animals, cats will carefully avoid mud and other grimy substances while outdoors.

However all these benefits come at a price, if you own a cat there is a chance you could be affected by Toxoplasmosis. Toxoplasmosis is a parasite that makes you immune to the majority of fear affects caused by cats and may cause you to become mind controlled by your cat.

All in all the cat is a great familiar if your willing to risk toxoplasmosis and are ok with cleaning a litterbox. I'd personally suggest the Maine **** archetype for your cat but to each their own.

To those who say that an imp or quasit is better I ask you this: what is cuter? A quasit or a kitten?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Unfortunately, a cat will also sit on your newspaper spellbook while you're trying to read in the mornings and refuse to budge, while also using your spell component pouch and favorite dress robes as scratching posts. Oh, and it'll likely do the same to your Tomes of Ancient LoreTM, as well.

[Elkad]

Unfortunately, a cat will also sit on your newspaper spellbook while you're trying to read in the mornings and refuse to budge, while also using your spell component pouch and favorite dress robes as scratching posts. Oh, and it'll likely do the same to your Tomes of Ancient LoreTM, as well.

I'd say just put an open cardboard box next to your spellbook and the cat will be trapped inside, but I searched every book and can't find one for sale.

[Vizzerdrix]

I'd say just put an open cardboard box next to your spellbook and the cat will be trapped inside, but I searched every book and can't find one for sale.

Shapesand.

Cats realy are horrid animals.

[Elkad]

So what if we keep the level down?
The Tucker's Kobolds thread currently active led me back to this one. (Where an Imp trashed the whole fort alone)


You are Level 8. Your party would like your assistance to clean out a den of bad guys tomorrow.
Unfortunately, you are deeply involved in something when the call comes up. Halfway through researching a new spell, you are scheduled to be married that day, whatever.
The best you can do is send your bonded creature (Familiar, Animal Companion, Psicrystal, Horse, whatever)

You get a mere 12 hours of preparation.
Your familiar can borrow your items.
Of your WBL, only 20% (5400gp) can be items that aren't suitable for your own character. So you can buy your Imp Tiny Plate Mail+1, but not Tiny Plate +3 and a Tiny Longbow +3, unless your main character is also Tiny and has proficiency in Heavy Armor and Bows.
Only 20% can be spent on consumables as well. Partially Charged items must have at least 20% of their charges remaining.

Starting feats are changeable.
Familiars do not gain feats for their master's levels.
Creatures that advance in HD (like Psicrystals) do gain additional feats.

Location is 6 hours of travel/searching/exploration away. Followed by 2 hours of combat/danger, with 4 combat encounters. Buffs cast by you before leaving should last at least 8 hours.
Enemies are an unspecified mix of magic and melee, both outdoors and below ground.



No Leadership on your familiar, or other extra creatures (simulacrums, familiars of familiars, etc). Something like a Beastmaster could send multiple companions.
No crazy CL boosting. A couple points is fine. 10 is not.
No other cheese (Candles of Invocation, PunPun, etc)

[Thurbane]

So just curious now, which familiar has the highest Str score by default? A base Howler has 21.

I'm talking base familiar scores, not spell or other shenanigans.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So just curious now, which familiar has the highest Str score by default? A base Howler has 21.

I'm talking base familiar scores, not spell or other shenanigans.Well, any creature can be a higher DvR deity's familiar, so a cancer mage with NI Str would be a good bet.

Aside from the above familiar ability, is there any way to make your psicrystal also be your familiar for a cerebremancer type character?

[ShurikVch]

To those who say that an imp or quasit is better I ask you this: what is cuter? A quasit or a kitten?Note: the Black Comet - quasit familiar of Iggwilv - is able to assume form of a cat

[Fouredged Sword]

I am going to suggest all of the above. A changling wizard with the Racial Sub levels can have your familiar change into any option avalible on the fly.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I am going to suggest all of the above. A changling wizard with the Racial Sub levels can have your familiar change into any option avalible on the fly.Already noted. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22924505&postcount=14)

[theonetruenerd]

For my 2 cents, I would say that either the Arcane Heirophant or Item Familiar route lead to the best familiars, for different purposes. While neither is technically a classical familiar, they both count as familiars, and are worth mentioning.

Arcane Heirophant (RotW) allows a multiclass druid-wizard to dismiss the initial familiar and your animal companion gains all abilities as a familiar and an animal companion, giving it lots of neat buffs and allowing a wizard to have, say, a fleshraker dinosaur as their animal companion.

Item Familiar (UA) allows any character (not just a wizard) to obtain an item with which they bond in a similar way to a familiar. The item gains many abilities as you gain levels, and you can invest skill points, life energy and spell slots in it. There are many, many ways to abuse this, from gaining extra spells per day to my personal favourite incantatrix/spellcraft abuse.

[Selene Sparks]

The strongest familiar possible requires being a Spell Sovereign Changeling, as mentioned previously, but you can take it to a level of complete invincibility by adding two just a few elements:

First, you need to broaden the kind of spell you can have your Living Spell Familiar be, as living spells are rather limited in their application, so we'll start by turning basically any spell into a Living Spell. First, you take Spellguard of Silverymoon, to turn your personal spells into Touch Spells. Then you apply two feats: Ocular Spell, from Lords of Madness, and Ray Coning, from Dragon Annual 5. This means you can turn any spell that has a casting time of 1 round or less into a living spell, so long as it's a fourth level spell or lower, or fifth once we add in Sanctum Spell. Combine the above combination with Extend and Persist, and you have access to literally every buff up to fifth level at once. This makes us badass, but doesn't solve the problem at hand. So, for that, we turn to Dragon 280, for the extra familiar feat. You can take this at any time past your first level of Spell Sovereign. Once you do, you now have a second familiar, so you can have your two familiars buff each other with the same buff array they're throwing on you.

So that is, as best I can tell, the strongest familiar in the game. Two creatures entirely immune to just about any status, death from HP damage, taking damage, all energy types, and pretty much anything else you can think of. They can also throw out SoDs on any hit, which they can change depending on target, have grossly inflated stats and a better attack bonus than the fighter, and more. Outside of Antimagic Field or Disjunction(And, it's worth noting, Disjunction actually is arguable), there's really nothing that can meaningfully stand up to these that I'm aware of outside of the most absurdly high-end nonsense like gods, Aleax, spell clock wishing, and so on.

For the purposes of this build, I'm going to be assuming that any spell at all is eligible, but anything tricky you actually are doing to the spell requires the abilities to be on your character sheet. If the former assumption doesn't hold, there are still easy ways around it via money, such as Versatile Spellcaster and Drakehelms. If the latter is rejected, then you can replace every level past the first level of Spell Sovereign with whatever you feel like, because a Mind Mage can theoretically cast any spell as a first level spell, and the rest of the trick still stands. One final element worth mentioning is metamagic; living spells can be applied to spells or spell effects, so there's absolutely no limitation on slot level, so long as you are of the appropriate level. It'd be not unreasonable to demand some kind of metamagic reduction for this to work, but it's strictly not needed. By that token, though, as best I can tell nothing besides Mind Mage(which can't really fit on this build efficiently, sadly) or Sanctum Spell actually help here, as I'm not aware of anything else that lowers the actual spell level. Ambient Tempest, noted earlier in the thread, mentions the slot specifically, rather than the level, which is what Spell Sovereign cares about.

One other note worth mentioning, you'll need to actually figure out the caster level of the living spell. It's probably supposed to be your caster level, but I actually can't find any text on it, so it's arguable you could essentially just set it to whatever you please. This is broken and clearly unintended, so I'm ignoring this as an option.

One final note, you can bypass the limitation on casting time for a decent number of spells by polymorphing into a phaerimm. Their ability to cast spells as SLAs is an untyped, and thus natural, ability, subject to being attained by polymorph. This is both cheesier than I'm comfortable with and introduces more ambiguity than I'd like, so I'm deliberately ignoring that beyond this mention, but I feel it's worth at least a note.

[Feantar]

Two, possibly relevant, questions on he subject.

1) Can a familiar get grafts?
2) Can a familiar UMD an item of true mind switch?

If yes to both, maybe a homuncus familiar, advanced to 18 HD (homunculi can only advance up to master's HD-2 I think), so the master can pick the feats, then mind switched to something strong and grafted on top? It'll cost a bit more than the GDP of Climshan, but...

Something similar can be done with a psicrystal too, I think.