Differences between Elemental's and Outsiders

[Feantar]

I was looking at Salamanders in the SRD and noticed that they are Outsiders with the fire subtype and not elementals as I had originally thought. Looking at the SRD, a similar issue arises with Efreet (and Genies in general, excluding Janni), Azer and possibly others. So I am stuck thinking why? Because both elementals and outsiders are monophysitic (body and soul being the same in both cases), they both are made by the stuff of their planes (Inner Planes being substance and Outer Planes being philosophies/alignments). So, since these beings are made of Inner Plane stuff, shouldn't they be Elemental, instead of Outsider?

[Jack_Simth]

I was looking at Salamanders in the SRD and noticed that they are Outsiders with the fire subtype and not elementals as I had originally thought. Looking at the SRD, a similar issue arises with Efreet (and Genies in general, excluding Janni), Azer and possibly others. So I am stuck thinking why? Because both elementals and outsiders are monophysitic (body and soul being the same in both cases), they both are made by the stuff of their planes (Inner Planes being substance and Outer Planes being philosophies/alignments). So, since these beings are made of Inner Plane stuff, shouldn't they be Elemental, instead of Outsider?

First off: If you try to insist on internal consistency, you're going to have trouble playing 3.5. Well, D&D in general, for that matter.

Second: They're noticeably different in the type definitions. Elementals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#elementalType) have 3/4ths BAB, one good save, 2+Int skills, don't breath, are immune to crits, and several other things that are distinct from the Outsider type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) (which grants FULL bab, 8+Int skill points, all good saves, require breathing, and so on).

If it's any consolation, Pathfinder made elementals a subtype of outsiders.

[SimonMoon6]

Conceptually, I'd imagine something like "Outsiders are kinda sorta people... but from other planes and with extra powers" while "Elementals are just a chunk of an element with a little bit of sentience thrown in". But don't go looking for too much consistency and sense.

So, a living whirlwind? That's an elemental. But a person who can turn into a whirlwind (djinni)? That's an outsider.

[Feantar]

First off: If you try to insist on internal consistency, you're going to have trouble playing 3.5. Well, D&D in general, for that matter.

Yeah... was just hoping it had some kind of fluff connection, possibly some remnant from 2nd edition or something...



Conceptually, I'd imagine something like "Outsiders are kinda sorta people... but from other planes and with extra powers" while "Elementals are just a chunk of an element with a little bit of sentience thrown in". But don't go looking for too much consistency and sense.

So, a living whirlwind? That's an elemental. But a person who can turn into a whirlwind (djinni)? That's an outsider.

This seems to have some consistency in general. I remember some elemental's that were essentially seers (I think Water Weirds?), but in general elementals are simple-minded for their relevant power level so this might fit. Thanks.