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Wampyr
2018-03-18, 09:20 PM
If you were trying to make an assassin (not the rogue subclass but the very idea of an assassin) that was entirely viable from levels 1-20, how would you do it?

Bonus points if you don't use the Rogue class.

Kane0
2018-03-18, 09:27 PM
Is spellcasting allowed?

A Fat Dragon
2018-03-18, 09:33 PM
Well, I’ve found a very good build, but unfortunately, it is not Rogue-Free.

Simply put, Assassin 3/Fighter X (I’d recommend Champion, or if you want your party to hate you, go with UA Brute + Half-Orc. Nothing will stop you).

Wear Light Armor, and for the two fighting styles: TWF(Or Dueling, if that’s your thing) and Archery.

Expertise in Stealth and Deception, but have a high Wisdom for Insight and Perception, as those will be good for making sure you can’t be gotten by another version of yourself. Also, make sure you have as high and initiative as possible, as it’ll be your heat friend.

Aside from that, it’s great in combat, and I’ve built mine to be a pretty good skill-monkey (Though, by putting more skills into Rogue, you can be slightly better at the cost of combat prowess).

Wampyr
2018-03-18, 09:46 PM
Is spellcasting allowed?

Yup.


Well, I’ve found a very good build, but unfortunately, it is not Rogue-Free.


If rogue is what works then rogue is what works I guess.

Kane0
2018-03-18, 10:43 PM
Well if you want rogueless you can go for something like UA Scout Fighter and Stalker Ranger, or just get unfair with a subtle sorcerer or enchanter wizard.

Edit: Specifically, a Changeling (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) (or V human with Actor or Prodigy feat) Mimicborn (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2016/07/mimicborn.html) Sorcerer with the Criminal (Spy) background, picking Subtle Spell metamagic at level 3.

Crgaston
2018-03-18, 11:18 PM
For rogueless I’m thinking Gloom Stalker 3/Lore Bard 17. Dex>Cha>Wis>Str>Int>Con

+Wis to initiative, two attacks with extra damage the first round, favored enemy, etc.

Then all the necessary skills, your pick of applicable spells, Expertise, Cutting Words...

Or just a straight Glamor Bard, for that matter. If they make their save vs Enthralling Performance, they don’t even know you tried to charm them. And you can try again after a short rest.

Bards are excellent Assassins because they are welcome just about anywhere. And they get the Mislead Spell which is great to establish an alibi.

The Performer, Urchin or Urban Bounty Hunter backgrounds are perfect.

OvisCaedo
2018-03-18, 11:30 PM
I think it depends a lot on exactly what it is you want to assassinate. Really, most practical targets one would take on in an assassination career are probably political humanoids, which is a pretty low bar to have to pass. You'd probably need more infiltration ability than actual raw "assassination" power.

My own idea for an assassin build involved a lot of heavy UA multiclassing stuff, and was also sort of lynch-pinned on a particular magic item that I think suits the idea of an assassin the best: an Oathbow. The idea was just to take a few levels into Rogue to GET the assassin class, and then switch focus to the Gloom Stalker ranger and Fighter levels to try to maximize the number of oathbow shots you could get off in that surprise assassinate round. Technically the minimum level everything would really come together at would be 11 (3 Assassin, 3 Gloom stalker, 5 Fighter), but you'd be pretty starved on the ASIs if you didn't push the first two to 4 and the total level up to 13. If I ran my rough math correctly, you'd have an existing chance at assassinating an adult blue dragon. But, again, that's sort of item-reliant, sort of deep into leveling for the full set, and also very likely overkill for the majority of what an "assassin" should be trying to take on.

My particular character build was a HUGE mess, since not only was gloom stalker UA at the time, the character in question was also penned for using the "spell-less ranger" example rework from UA, and the UA scout fighter. Battle master probably works as well for most things, scout was just very nicely full of skill/utility stuff. Spells are also probably more of a boon, it was just a specific character who was supposed to not know magic.

edit: On reflection, you COULD pull things together earlier with Assassin 3/Gloom 5/Fighter 2. That'd still get you to six attacks in your surprise round. Though again, this was sort of oathbow based, if you DON'T assume that you'd probably want to aim for something else over sheer shot count.

Xihirli
2018-03-18, 11:34 PM
Assassin 3 / Gloom 3 / Paladin 14 gives you three attacks on the first turn of combat with advantage against anyone who hasn't acted yet. If you have surprise, you auto-crit with smites and Sneak Attack for the first attack. Maybe Hunter's Mark to add insult to injury.

Then you smite with a crit.

Snowbluff
2018-03-19, 12:51 AM
If you're going rogue-free, my suggestion would be Ranger5(gloomstalker)/Bard15(whispers)

Gloomstalker gives you an extra attack on the ambush round, as well as immunity to darkvision. You can also get Pass without a trace. You also get archery style. Combined with advantage and sharpshooter, you're in for a lot of damage.

Whispers bard gives SA-like Psychic Blades, as well as a few abilities to make it easier to jump on people or disguise as people, which are nice for and extended mission. Furthermore, they get invisibility and it's bigger brother for some stealth. Past that they get a magical secret, which can be used for Swift Quiver (extra attacks each round).

You can even roll in 2 fighter levels if you feel the need for another attack action.

PERSONALLY, I want to try Something like Assassin3/Sorcerer/Tempest Cleric. Shoot out maximized quicken critical Chromatic Orb then hit with a Booming Blade. You'd hit 200+ damage for your opening volley at 20.



Well, I’ve found a very good build, but unfortunately, it is not Rogue-Free.

Simply put, Assassin 3/Fighter X (I’d recommend Champion, or if you want your party to hate you, go with UA Brute + Half-Orc. Nothing will stop you).

Wear Light Armor, and for the two fighting styles: TWF(Or Dueling, if that’s your thing) and Archery.

Expertise in Stealth and Deception, but have a high Wisdom for Insight and Perception, as those will be good for making sure you can’t be gotten by another version of yourself. Also, make sure you have as high and initiative as possible, as it’ll be your heat friend.

Aside from that, it’s great in combat, and I’ve built mine to be a pretty good skill-monkey (Though, by putting more skills into Rogue, you can be slightly better at the cost of combat prowess).
Hi! I've been ona team with a player that does EXTENSIVE assassin optimization, and I'll just say he agrees with this sort of work. He actually went with Battlemaster, as it gives you some extra dice to work with the free assassin crits.

Akolyte01
2018-03-19, 01:01 AM
If you were trying to make an assassin (not the rogue subclass but the very idea of an assassin) that was entirely viable from levels 1-20, how would you do it?

Bonus points if you don't use the Rogue class.


That depends entirely on what you mean by assassin and who is to be assassinated.

Do you mean someone who is good at circumventing heavy defenses by themselves to kill relatively squishy heads of state? Do you mean someone who is good at dealing burst damage in a party combat setting? Someone who is good at picking off enemies without alerting others?

Mongobear
2018-03-19, 01:29 AM
Moon Druid 20

Turn into a small rodent/bird to get near your target without notice.

Use spells to hide your presense, while slipping them some kind of poison, or shift into a form with really strong Poison as part of their natural attack.

Change back into a Rodent/Bird to escape.

SkylarkR6
2018-03-19, 05:43 AM
Whispers bard/Shadow monk.

Never unarmed, never unarmored, ninja style teleport and all the charm and illusion spells you could ask for. MAD as hell thoigh

Mortis_Elrod
2018-03-19, 07:07 AM
I like a few options for this.

Shadow Monk / Gloomstalker is a nice mix in my eyes, though not sure the best split. Maybe 8/12 with more ranger levels.

Other options I like are Whispers Bard/Assasin. Better if you can fit in a few warlock levels for the silent image and disguise self invocations.

I see many ways to do this usually involving a mix of rogue, Bard, ranger, or monk then adding some desired abilities from another class

Ivor_The_Mad
2018-03-19, 07:36 AM
Heres an idea I have wanted to try. It's a fallen aasimer with 15 levels of sorcerer(not sure on subclass) and levels of gloom stalker /or hunter ranger. There are obviously better choices but this is a character that fits into the campaign i'm designing.

Dr. Cliché
2018-03-19, 09:08 AM
A lot of the answers I'm seeing here appear to depict assassins that are viable only at lv20, rather than being viable at levels 1 through 20.

KorvinStarmast
2018-03-19, 09:44 AM
I like the Moon Druid. For example, turn into a giant scorpion.

Giant Scorpion Large beast, unaligned Armor Class 15 (natural armor)
Hit Points 52 (7d10 + 14) Speed 40 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 (+2) 13 (+1) 15 (+2) 1 (−5) 9 (−1) 3 (−4)
Senses blindsight 60 ft., passive Perception 9
Challenge 3
Actions
Multiattack. The scorpion makes three attacks: two with its claws and one with its sting.

Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 12). The scorpion has two claws, each of which can grapple only one target.
Sting. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (4d10) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Damage stacks up sort of quick if you first cast an immobilizing spell like hold person or entangle.



A creature in the area when you cast the spell must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be restrained by the entangling plants until the spell ends Further that point, if the scorp successfully grapples the target, then even if they breatk the plant's grip they have a move of 0, and the entangle gets to grab them again (there is a save, of course, based on the druid's spell dc).

The Jack
2018-03-19, 11:27 AM
Just play a wizard.
Tell no one your spells
Assume Collateral is fine.
The possibilities are endless


(sorcerer's metamagic is a great advantage to have, given silent spells and the like, but it's just not as stylish and you're missing out on more options)

DivisibleByZero
2018-03-19, 11:53 AM
Wampyr, are older versions of UA acceptable?
The Favored Soul, in particular. The first iteration, by Rodney Thompson.
Half elf Paladin 2 / Trickery domain Favored Soul Sorcerer 18, criminal or bounty hunter background.
This makes for an excellent assassin type (bonus points granted, as there are no rogue levels). Divine Smites instead of Sneak Attack, and all the magical trickery you can fit in.

Lombra
2018-03-19, 03:47 PM
Fighter2/assassin x. Stealth, infiltration and big damage. Use action surge to prepare an attack off-turn to proc two sneak attacks in one round.

Or shadow monk, stunlock is really powerful in a 1v1 situation.

Nettlekid
2018-03-19, 04:31 PM
My vote is for straight-up Warlock. Assassination isn't about headshots and high damage splatter kills, they're about setting up the scene and preparing for the right time to strike. A Warlock with Mask of Many Faces and Actor can look and sound like anyone at a moment's notice. Obviously this is useful to imitate high-profile people, but it's also useful in escaping notice by hiding as someone nondescript like a guard. You can also impersonate your target after the kill, throwing off any would-be detectives trying to figure out the time of death.

Meanwhile, you need the tools to do your job between the moments of death. Warlock's spell options include disruptive options such as Charm Person, Suggestion, Invisibility, Misty Step and later Dimension Door, Fly, all of which will greatly aid an assassin. At high levels you gain a few options that probably won't come up every day but will let you do things no Rogue ever could, like Plane Shift. Because a Warlock's slots refresh on a short rest, if you're the one determining when the action happens (like if you're infiltrating a place, rather than exploring a dungeon where you don't know when monsters will pop out) you can use them very freely, then find a quiet place to rest and restore the spent slots.

Being an assassin as a Warlock is viable at all levels. At level 1 you'll have high Charisma and Deception, which can get you about as far as you can go at level 1. Level 2 brings in Mask of Many Faces for the first half of that infiltration combo, already good. Level 3 gets you your Pact Boon, and this is up to personal preference. Blade might be good to bump up your damage later on, but overall doesn't do much for you that you aren't getting with Eldritch Blast. Tome is very handy for Book of Ancient Secrets and getting ritual spells to help set up your assassinations, especially Silence. But personally I think Chain is the best Pact Boon for an assassin since you get an extra pair of eyes that can invisibly fly around and scope out a scene without putting you at any risk, and can be unsummoned at a moment's notice if it's about to be caught. Level 4 gets you your first ASI which can be Actor, and from there you're golden. It just gets better as you keep leveling up, since weird Invocations like Ghostly Gaze (1/short rest X-Ray Vision) or Ascendant Step (Self-only Levitate at will) or Whispers of the Grave (Speak With Dead at will) can be a great boon to your assassin skillset.

As for your patron, you have plenty of options. Hexblade is famously powerful, and Hexblade's Curse certainly helps bring down your target when the time comes to strike. The flavor works out well too - if the Raven Queen is behind the sentient weapons then your assassinations could be keeping things in cosmic order by her decree. Archfey gives you a few escape buttons, but overall not all that much. Great Old One's Telepathy might be valuable since stealth and silence is often important to an assassin - you can coordinate with an ally in the middle of a crowded room or even in the middle of a conversation. But I think I'd go with Fiend, because it really gives you some staying power if things go unexpectedly. The temp HP from a kill (you plan to kill a lot), extra d10 on a saving throw or ability check (don't want to fumble a critical Stealth or Deception), changeable Resistance (prepare for your kill - if your target is Queen Elsa then you know to guard against cold), and later on Hurl Through Hell for the burst damage against your target that you may have wanted earlier on.

Wampyr
2018-03-19, 04:32 PM
Wampyr, are older versions of UA acceptable?


Ya buv.

Sorry for the late response btw.

Daithi
2018-03-19, 09:05 PM
I'm going to second the Warlock recommendation. Mask of Many faces will basically let you do the Arya Stark from Game of Thrones thing --- you're a servant or minion that is able to get close to the target without them suspecting. This comes online at level-2 and even at level-1 that Eldritch Blast is pretty good.

You could go with 3 levels of Rogue/Assassin or maybe Gloomstalker, but you could also take 3 more levels of warlock and add more powerful spells and invocations. Personally, I'd just stick with warlock. I'd also probably go the hexblade route and use Booming Blade, smites, etc. coupled with extra attacks at 5th with Thirsting Blade. I don't remember the exact DPR but it's a lot and it scales.

You could try adding levels of Rogue/Assassin now, but once again, you would have wait on some of the more powerful warlock spells and invocations if you did so. Are the abilities of a first level rogue worth the 6th level patron feature of the warlock. The truth is that it is probably best to just keep getting more powerful as a warlock. Agonizing Blast with multiple bolts of Eldritch Blast with Eldritch Spear lets you blast the hell out of someone from 300' away. Lifedrinker adds your CHA mod to your pact weapon damage. One with Shadows is freaking awesome for assassins. Visions of Distant Realms is another great spell for assassins.

Warlocks don't even need to kill their target themselves. XGtE gives them some decent summoning spells that allow them to send demons and devils to do their dirty work for them. Keep in mind, the warlock can keep sending these fiends after his target after just a short rest. How would you like to have to keep fighting off a horde of demons and devils every hour or so? Learn the fiends true name an exert even greater control.

Snowbluff
2018-03-19, 09:14 PM
A lot of the answers I'm seeing here appear to depict assassins that are viable only at lv20, rather than being viable at levels 1 through 20.
Many of these builds scale with level. Getting the core components happens first, then you move onto the parts that give more of the scaling damage.

Davrix
2018-03-20, 10:52 AM
I really dont see how you can go rogue free. You are asking for the idea of the assassin. Well that generally means the target is dead on the first shot and you are gone before anyone notices.

Simply put the best way to accomplish this is with the rouge assassin feature because auto crit on a surprise = to good to ever pass up. But you also said viable to play at any lv.

So lets say something where you stress Dex / con with CHar as your 3 stat for the aura sv buff. Lets go Human cause variant feat and you can get a 16 in dex 14 in char and 14 in con and dumping the rest in other places using the base stat array. Take sharpshooter as your going to need to save the rest of your asci for pumping your dex later. The only real downside to this and depending on your DM is maybe letting you take the archery fighting style as a paladin. Or I suppose you could delay things and take fighter 2 to start and pick it up that way.

So start off with a Dex paladin build to lv 5 or 6. This is very strong starting game and you wont leave the party hanging.

Move into Rouge 3 next for assasin followed by a Revised Ranger / gloomstalker 3 and at this point your almost fully online by lv 12. You might be a little weak in these levels but not by to much and the resistance aura you get at lv 6 for paladin will be very helpful to the party. You then cap it off with 2 levels of fight for action surge and then ust go full tilt paladin to 20 capping it at paladin 12

Long story short this could probably be tweaked but the burst surprise round is a real monster killer at longbow range.

DivisibleByZero
2018-03-20, 11:03 AM
I really dont see how you can go rogue free. You are asking for the idea of the assassin. Well that generally means the target is dead on the first shot and you are gone before anyone notices.

No. He is asking for the general concept of someone who infiltrates and eliminates/neutralizes an enemy. That can be done a ton of different ways, many of which require no Rogue levels.

He isn't asking about ways to build an Assassin (with a capital A), but rather for ways to build an assassin (with a lower case a).

MrWesson22
2018-03-20, 01:14 PM
If UA is available, I would also take a look at lore wizard. Being able to change spell save type once per short rest as well as spell damage type on non-cantrip spells at will is really powerful.

I would probably do lore wizard 2, undying light warlock 1, then draconic fire sorcerer. At level 9, you would get double cha mod damage to fire spells and could change any non-fire damage cantrip to fire. Naturally, elemental adept: fire would be great for this build. With quicken spell, you could be putting out a ton of damage in a round. You would also have the infiltration flexibility of a full caster with spells like invisibility and could scout with your familiar.

Davrix
2018-03-20, 01:49 PM
No. He is asking for the general concept of someone who infiltrates and eliminates/neutralizes an enemy. That can be done a ton of different ways, many of which require no Rogue levels.

He isn't asking about ways to build an Assassin (with a capital A), but rather for ways to build an assassin (with a lower case a).

Ah my mistake

Specter
2018-03-20, 02:00 PM
Lore Bard 3/Divine Soul Sorcerer 17

Just cast Subtle spells like Phantasmal Force at your target until they die. If somehow they end up noticing you, either teleport away or use Cutting Words to stall their initiative.

Vogie
2018-03-20, 02:45 PM
If you want to pump out a ton of attacks in a small period of time, Gloom Stalker Ranger 3 / War Cleric 1 will get you 3 attacks in the first turn at level 4. If you start at a mid level, using that as a core alongside your chosen style will give you a not-insignificant amount of burst.

youtellatale
2018-03-20, 04:03 PM
I'm a fan of the Assassin/Gloom Stalker build, at least early on. Once you get a second attack from Gloom Stalker you can hit three times in the first round at level 5. Take Sharpshooter & get your Dex to 18 by level 9. At level 9 you get crit on all your 1st round attacks that hit, so Zephyr Strike + Gloom Stalker + Archery Fighting Style + Sneak Attack means you get the following:
Round 1:
Bonus Action: Zephyr Strike
First attack: +10 vs AC (or +5 with Sharpshooter) w/ Advantage from Zephyr
Hit: 2d8 (arrow) + 2d8 (force from Zephyr) + 4d6 (sneak) + 4 (+ 15 w/ SS)
Second attack: +10 vs AC (or +5 with Sharpshooter)
Hit: 2d8 (arrow) + 4 (+15 w/ SS)
Third attack: (from Gloom Stalker): +10 vs AC (or +5 with Sharpshooter)
Hit: 2d8 (arrow) + 4 (+15 w/ SS)

You'll do quite well on that first round no matter what really, even if the dice are just not in your favor. Oh and you can sit 150+ feet away hidden too. You hit once and you're guaranteed 21 damage on just 1/3 shooting. Max damage is 145 (very unlikely but you can see potential here). This is just level 9 so you can go a number of places from here. Another few levels of Rogue will get you more Sneak Attack dice, just food for thought though. I might have to play this guy just to nova in Round 1. Could even go Fighter and get some BM dice too.