PDA

View Full Version : Is Spot/Notice/Search/Perception Really the “God Skill?”



tuanbuffalo
2018-03-18, 10:18 PM
I've got a comic on the subject over here, but here's the TLDR:

Players believe that they need max ranks in the "notice stuff" skills. I contend that, while very useful, it isn't strictly necessary. Many Perception rolls are inconsequential, and often serve as GM shorthand for “I’m about to describe something.” This creates the perception that "notice stuff" is the most useful skill in the game, when in reality it is only the most rolled.

What do you think? Are the "notice stuff" skills truly critical for every character? Would you be a fool (a damn fool!) to neglect them?

Malimar
2018-03-18, 10:32 PM
I hardly ever invest in these skills (and have on at least one occasion taken flaws to dump them into the asthenosphere. And I dump wisdom on almost all my characters, even in systems where perception is based on wisdom, because I love playing characters who are not very sensible).

For one thing, usually only one party member needs to roll high (or have good passive perception, in systems that use such a mechanic) in any given instance, because if one character notices a thing then they can notify everybody else, and in a large enough party somebody's virtually guaranteed to roll high.

Though I do DM for at least one party where all five characters have either dumped Wisdom or taken flaws for penalties to their perception skills or both -- they habitually fail to notice things, even though there are five of them, because they've all got penalties. This is not a situation I recommend you find yourself in -- it is important for at least one character in the party to have decent perception.

Unless you're playing with a ruleset that has "only characters who succeed at their perception check gets to act in the surprise round" or "your perception roll also determines your initiative order" or something, in which case perception becomes a bit more valuable.

There are other exceptions: if there's only one elf, then that elf should have high ability to detect secret doors for when their secret door detection procs (in systems where elves get such a thing). The rogue should have high ability to search for traps. And so on.

But it definitely is not the case that everybody needs to waste points maxing their perception skills.

inexorabletruth
2018-03-18, 10:42 PM
I love my skill checks. And it would physically pain me to say that there isn't a skill you couldn't invest in that wouldn't enhance your gaming experience. But as you move from 3E to 5E, and with passive perception running on autopilot, I can at least see your argument.

I still contend that perception can still grant you a more vivid view of the world. It's not just about bring the first to notice the bandit hiding in the ditch. It's about knowing as much as can be known about your surroundings and making the most of the world around you.

When I make perception checks, I'm looking for literally anything I can use to my advantage, or interact with for my amusement.

Jay R
2018-03-18, 11:25 PM
It depends so much on the DM that there is no way to answer. With some DMs, it's crucial that somebody in the party have a high Spot and that somebody have a high Search.

I've seen some DMs who never had situations in which a successful Spot roll seemed to make much difference. In those games, it's just (mostly) wasted points. Of course some situations can come up to use the skill anyway, but those DMs don't plan for it.

At the extreme other end of the scale, I play with a DM right now who appears to make every natural 20 with a maxed out skill become important. My Ranger has found a gemstone, a small pouch of gold, and a magic item that I don't think existed before I rolled a 20 Spot. (So now I make as many Spot checks as I can without being too obvious.)

Cespenar
2018-03-20, 05:57 AM
It's a very useful "skill" IRL, especially in any exploration or ambush situation. Why shouldn't it be a very useful skill in D&D?

Still, is it more useful than Athletics, or Stealth? Or heck, combat? Each have their place.

In a party, like many skills, it's useful for the scout and maybe one more person to have, but everyone? Meh.

iceman10058
2018-03-20, 09:52 AM
Honestly i have always seen the different knowledge skills as way more useful than anything else. Knowing what you are fighting and how to deal with it and all.

LibraryOgre
2018-03-20, 12:03 PM
The Mod Wonder: I thought this looked familiar.

Locked because the first post is a word-for-word repeat of another post about a month ago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?549094-Is-Spot-Notice-Search-Perception-Really-the-%93God-Skill-%94&highlight=god+skill), even referring to a link the original post made, without reproducing the link.

The other post will likewise be locked (it's past the zombie date), and I'm going to look into this.