At-Will (or close to it) Telekinesis?

[ATHATH]

I'd like to get at-will Telekinesis (as the spell; no, Mage Hand and Unseen Servant do not count) for a Master of the Unseen Hand build that I'm putting together. While I could just take the Ghost template (or levels in the Ghost savage progression), I'd rather not. Any ideas?

Note that while items won't work for this Master of the Unseen Hand build, I am still looking for a source of Telekinesis (not necessarily at-will, but it does have to not have a limited number of unrechargeable uses) for a Darth Vader build that I'm putting together (so far, it's looking like a Warlock that wears clockwork armor with either a Cleric or a Barbarian dip and some feats that I've found that will let him deflect projectiles), so I'd still be interested in the ones that you find.

[Feantar]

Do you mean as a spell-like ability or are you okay with magic items? Because there's the ring of telekinesis which does just that.

Otherwise, when you say close to at-will, how many times a day are you thinking approximately?

[Falontani]

Technically you can get nearly at will telekinesis via: spellthief 5 (steal spell-like ability) with a required level of 15 to steal telekinesis. That leaves 5 levels for master of the unseen hand, which lets our bab be 16+
Now the tricky part of finding a monster with this ability. You have 3 options: ghost, blue slaad, and iirc vrock. Two of them can be gotten via planar binding. All can be obtained using various forms of leadership. Using master spellthief, and fiendbinder you can bind the fiend to you and gain access to the creature permanently. Where it will "willingly" let you steal it's spell like ability

[ATHATH]

Do you mean as a spell-like ability or are you okay with magic items? Because there's the ring of telekinesis which does just that.

Otherwise, when you say close to at-will, how many times a day are you thinking approximately?
What book is the Ring of Telekinesis from? Is it an item from Pathfinder?

[InterstellarPro]

What book is the Ring of Telekinesis from? Is it an item from Pathfinder?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#telekinesis

It is in the SRD.

[CharonsHelper]

I made a BBEG once with Master of the Unseen Hand due to being a Vampire Lord. I think it was on the WotC website as a boosted template of the vampire.

Basically she was a creepy little girl (the first of the vampires) who flew around and tossed dozens of arrows via telekinesis with jacked up defences (she had monk levels for saves, Wis to AC, and unarmed attacks doing -3 negative levels).

But yeah - it was a monster template - the total of which was +5 CR (I forget exactly - but she was over CR 20 in total).

[Psyren]

What book is the Ring of Telekinesis from? Is it an item from Pathfinder?


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#telekinesis

It is in the SRD.

As noted, it's a core item, so yes it is also in Pathfinder. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/magicItems/rings.html#ring-of-telekinesis)

[Ramza00]

Ghost Savage Progression 2 gives you thte telekinesis every 1d4 rounds (but remember all but the violent thrust has a concentration rounds duration so you can keep on doing things every round unless you violent thrust.)

Then take the following feats

Ghostly Grasp (Libris Mortis), Skilled Telekinetic (Lords of Madness) to make your telekinesis better

Humage Heritage, or Dragonwrought, or Otherworldly so you are not longer counted as undead and are counted as Humanoid, Dragon, or Outsider Native respectively

Knowledge Devotion for the boost in damage

And lastly and most important a ring of manifestation (ghost walk) for 10,000 GP you have a physical body when you wear the ring, and a ghost body when you take the ring off. Now you are a normal human, kobold, outsider, but with telekinesis, fly, several other good abilities, etc. All for 2 LA, 10,000 GP, and some feats.

-----

Sidenote with the binder rules someone should make a ghost vestige as a 5th level binder vestige.

[Thurbane]

I made a BBEG once with Master of the Unseen Hand due to being a Vampire Lord. I think it was on the WotC website as a boosted template of the vampire.

Link: The Vampire Lord (Template) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a)


Telekinesis (Su): A vampire lord can use telekinesis (caster level 12th) at will.

While it doesn't have a listed LA as far as I'm aware, you need to be a vampire which comes with LA +8 to begin with.

[ATHATH]

Ghost Savage Progression 2 gives you thte telekinesis every 1d4 rounds (but remember all but the violent thrust has a concentration rounds duration so you can keep on doing things every round unless you violent thrust.)

Then take the following feats

Ghostly Grasp (Libris Mortis), Skilled Telekinetic (Lords of Madness) to make your telekinesis better

Humage Heritage, or Dragonwrought, or Otherworldly so you are not longer counted as undead and are counted as Humanoid, Dragon, or Outsider Native respectively

Knowledge Devotion for the boost in damage

And lastly and most important a ring of manifestation (ghost walk) for 10,000 GP you have a physical body when you wear the ring, and a ghost body when you take the ring off. Now you are a normal human, kobold, outsider, but with telekinesis, fly, several other good abilities, etc. All for 2 LA, 10,000 GP, and some feats.

-----

Sidenote with the binder rules someone should make a ghost vestige as a 5th level binder vestige.

While I could just take the Ghost template (or levels in the Ghost savage progression), I'd rather not.
...

The ring of manifestation thing is neat, though.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Spheres of Power can do it

[Ramza00]

While I could just take the Ghost template (or levels in the Ghost savage progression)

Fine, I redirect, why don't you like the Ghost Template / Ghost Savage Progression? I do not know why you do not like it, so how can I help you when I do not understand.

I have to make assumptions why you do not like the ghost template, and these assumptions then color my perceptions of what to recommend with other things like psionics, arcane, spheres of power, and so on.

[Caelestion]

Dragonwrought and Otherworldly are both 1st-level only feats. How exactly are you pretending you can take them to revert being undead?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Psionic powers were classified as SLAs somewhere, right? You could do a manifester ~9 with only telekinesis-type powers and an infinite-pp trick, though that might be too high a cheese level.

[Caelestion]

Psi-like abilities are the psionic SLAs. Psionic powers are evoked in much the same way as spells.

[Thurbane]

I'm pretty sure Grod is right, there's a ruling somewhere I've seen quoted that says all powers are Psi-like Abilities.

[CharonsHelper]

Link: The Vampire Lord (Template) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a)



While it doesn't have a listed LA as far as I'm aware, you need to be a vampire which comes with LA +8 to begin with.

Oh yeah - it's NOT for PCs. Just a BBEG sort of thing.

[Caelestion]

I'm pretty sure Grod is right, there's a ruling somewhere I've seen quoted that says all powers are Psi-like Abilities.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is right, but that's not what XPH says.

[Silva Stormrage]

I wouldn't be surprised if he is right, but that's not what XPH says.

"Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)
The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.
"

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm

[Rijan_Sai]

I wouldn't be surprised if he is right, but that's not what XPH says.

"Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)
The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.
"

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm

For completeness, it's in the XPH on page 65.
Although, re-reading it, it does seem to be talking about specifically psi-like abilities, such as a half-giant's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants) stomp, or a phrenic creature's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) list, and not psionic powers in general.

[Crichton]

For completeness, it's in the XPH on page 65.
Although, re-reading it, it does seem to be talking about specifically psi-like abilities, such as a half-giant's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants) stomp, or a phrenic creature's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) list, and not psionic powers in general.


"Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)
The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.
"

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. The latter half of the text there is talking about the manifestations of unique powers by psionic creatures, but the first sentence (bolded above) seems to me to be quite clearly talking about the normal manifestation of psionic powers by characters with levels in psionic classes.

[Rijan_Sai]

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. The latter half of the text there is talking about the manifestations of unique powers by psionic creatures, but the first sentence (bolded above) seems to me to be quite clearly talking about the normal manifestation of psionic powers by characters with levels in psionic classes.

That is what I get for trying to post something intelligent when I should be sleeping! It is also... weird. On the one hand, I can see what you're saying about it (and I did miss that line, specifically with the comma, when I was looking it up last night.
On the other hand, here's the whole section:

Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)

The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

Psi-like abilities have no verbal, somatic, or material components, nor do they require a focus or have an XP cost (even if the equivalent power has an XP cost). The user activates them mentally. Armor never affects a psi-like ability’s use. A psi-like ability has a manifesting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability description. In all other ways, a psi-like ability functions just like a power. However, a psionic creature does not have to pay a psi-like ability’s power point cost.

Psi-like abilities are subject to power resistance and to being dispelled by dispel psionics. They do not function in areas where psionics is suppressed or negated.

Note the two bolded parts: in the first paragraph, it seem to say that all psionic powers are psi-like abilities. In the second one, it flat out tells you how they are different (noted by the "even if the equivalent power..." line.)
It seems that if manifesting a power from a class is simultaneously using a psi-like ability, then there is some form of dysfunction (power with an XP component = PLA with no XP component.) If, however, we do see them as separate, then this section talking about Psi-like Abilities should only be talking about Psi-like Abilities. (Admittedly, I'm not sure what, if any, PLA's have XP components, but the point still stands.)

So now, I'm straight up flummoxed!

[Crichton]

So now, I'm straight up flummoxed!


Me too! Thanks for pointing out that discrepancy.

So, taken in the most technically minded RAW sense, it says that powers are Psi-like Abilities, and then states that Psi-like Abilities have no components (including XP), so a case could be made that all powers are component free, no matter what the description entry for them says.

(Not advocating for this in any way, but given the passage quoted above, that could be the RAW of things, silly as that would be)

[Caelestion]

The logical (and presumably intended) point would be to say that powers are the analogue of spells and thus are not psi-like abilities, despite the apparent flagrant lack of proofreading.

[Crichton]

The logical (and presumably intended) point would be to say that powers are the analogue of spells and thus are not psi-like abilities, despite the apparent fragrant lack of proofreading.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. That's absolutely what's intended.

[Psyren]

Me too! Thanks for pointing out that discrepancy.

So, taken in the most technically minded RAW sense, it says that powers are Psi-like Abilities, and then states that Psi-like Abilities have no components (including XP), so a case could be made that all powers are component free, no matter what the description entry for them says.

No, because a given power's entry is more specific than the general PLA rule. So even by a pure RAW reading, powers are PLAs that happen to have costs and displays associated.

[Crichton]

No, because a given power's entry is more specific than the general PLA rule. So even by a pure RAW reading, powers are PLAs that happen to have costs and displays associated.

Ah, there we have it. So even a RAW-lawyer couldn't exploit the PLA clause.


Thanks for helping clear that up.

[ShurikVch]

Since we're mentioned psionics - how about the Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm)?