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BowStreetRunner
2018-03-19, 10:28 AM
Archivist Class Spell Access

One of my favorite classes for both playability and role-playing flavor is the Archivist. I've found there is a lot of information available regarding one of the most interesting of their class abilities - specifically how they add to their spell list - but that it isn't all gathered conveniently in one place. After compiling the information for my own reference, it occurred to me that other players might appreciate having it easily accessible as well - so here it is. I hope you find it useful and informative.

The Prayerbook

The Archivist class (Heroes of Horror p.82) uses a Prayerbook to record the spells she knows, with the exception of Read Magic which she can prepare from memory. At each class level the Archivist receives a selection of new Cleric spells that she may automatically add to her Prayerbook. Additionally she can copy from scrolls containing divine spells to add to her Prayerbook.

While this appears at first glance to give the Archivist access to an absolutely enormous range of spells, there are a couple of restrictions that have the potential to keep this in check. The only spells the Archivist gains automatically at each level are a small number of Cleric spells (all 0 level spells, 3 + Intelligence bonus 1st level spells, then 2 new spells per level after first). Beyond that the Archivist has to find a divine scroll of a spell in order to copy it. This means there doesn't only need to be a divine spellcaster who knows the spell, but also someone with the Scribe Scroll feat to create a divine scroll from it. Fortunately for the Archivist, this is a bonus feat at first level and the rules for creating magic items state that where prerequisites to create an item include spells that must be known by the item's creator, access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed.

Divine Scrolls

The simplest way to add a spell to the Archivist's list is therefore to just acquire a divine spell scroll that someone else has crafted. She must still "make any rolls and spend the time required", which follows the same rules as a Wizard (Player's Handbook p.178). If not using the Read Magic spell, or the assistance of the person who wrote the scroll, then a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + Spell Level) is required to decipher the spell. She must then spend a day studying the spell and make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + SL) to understand the spell. If unsuccessful the scroll remains but she cannot attempt to copy it again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. If successful the spell can be scribed into her Prayerbook and disappears from the scroll.

Note that the Archivist rules specifically call out the section 'Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook', which also allows for Independent Research without access to an existing spell. The DMG covers this and your DM may make this an option. Also, the Archivist rules do not call out the subsequent section titled 'Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook' so it is unclear how much time and cost is required to write a new spell into a Prayerbook. If the Wizard rules are considered to carry over here as well, then it takes 24 hours to scribe the spell into her Prayerbook, and the prayer takes up one page per spell level (minimum 1 page), with a material cost of 100 gp per page.

If the Archivist locates either a spellcaster or item who can cast the spell, she has the option of working with the item or other spellcaster to craft a scroll. While the original rules for such collaboration were vague (Dungeon Master's Guide p.282), a later book (Magic Item Compendium p.232) clarifies that when such collaboration occurs any place that the text "refers to the “creator” of a magic item, it includes all characters supplying at least one prerequisite for the item’s creation." [Note that this is not presented as a new rule, but merely a clarification of existing rules, so would be similar in nature to Errata or FAQ.] To scribe a scroll with such assistance the caster providing the spell must have it prepared for casting or, in the case of a spontaneous caster, have the appropriate slot available, along with any material components (which are used up in creating the scroll), spell focus (which must be available but is not used up), and spend any XP cost included in the spell itself. Alternately, the Archivist can just have an item ready to cast the spell. The base price of the scroll is set at 25 gp x spell level x caster level, which uses the caster level at which the spell is cast during the creation of the scroll. [Note that the spell level will remain at the level given in the spell list of the person who provided the spell - so a lesser restoration provided by a Paladin becomes a 1st level Archvist spell but provided by a Druid becomes a 2nd level Archivist spell.] The creator will need to provide at the time of creation materials equal to 1/2 the base price. The person contributing the Scribe Scroll feat will need to spend XP equal to 1/25 the base price. The time to create the scroll is one day per 1000 gp of the base price, with a minimum of one day. Note that a scroll with multiple spells may take less time to create then multiple scrolls with the same spells, as the one day minimum is per scroll not per spell.

[As mentioned above, the spell level doesn't change when an Archivist learns a spell from another divine caster. Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers, Adepts, and members of various other base classes and prestige classes may have the same spell on their lists but at different levels. An Archivist will generally want the lowest level version possible, although there may be specific circumstances when a higher level version is desirable (such as casting into a globe of invulnerability).]

Arcane Spells

Sometimes it may be possible to acquire a divine scroll of a spell that is normally an arcane spell. There are several methods that provide divine casters access to arcane spells as divine spells that can then be put into a scroll. Note that many of these are by no means guaranteed to provide the spell that the archivist is looking for, as the character with the ability must not only have the ability in question but also have used it to acquire the specific spell the archivist is looking for. Here are the methods I've found so far. Not all of them will be available as options in every campaign, since many rely on alternate rules that a particular DM may not employ, and quite a few rely on DM interpretations of the rules.


Domain Spells (Player's Handbook p.185, Spell Compendium p.271, etc.) often include spells that aren't on any of the normal divine spell lists. The nice thing about these spells is that someone with the domain and a high enough caster level is pretty much guaranteed to have that spell.
The Adept NPC class (Dungeon Master's Guide p.107) has several spells that are normally arcane spells but cast as divine spells by these characters. Adepts know all of the spells on their spell list, so one with a high enough caster level is going to have the spells of that level.
A Cleric with the Divine Magician alternate class feature (Complete Mage p.33) can add one abjuration, divination, or necromancy spells at each level from the wizard list as divine spells. This is like having a custom domain. However, unlike domain spells there is no guarantee that a particular Divine Magician will have chosen the specific spell desired at that level.
A Favored Soul with the Favored of Bahamut/Tiamat alternate class feature (Dragon Magic p.13) can choose one first level sorcerer spell to add to their list of divine spells and later add one more sorcerer spell of up to sixth level. Again here there is no guarantee that a particular Favored of Bahamut/Tiamat will have chosen the specific spell desired at that level.
Bards with the Divine Bard variant class (Unearthed Arcana p.50) cast all of their bard spells as divine spells. Since bards have a limited number of spells known, there is once again no guarantee that a particular Divine Bard will have chosen the specific spell desired at that level.
A member of the Hexer prestige class (Masters of the Wild p.63 - a 3.0 book that was never updated to 3.5) is generally going to be a divine caster (must be able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell) and can add one bonus spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list at every even level. As with the other examples above, there is no guarantee that a particular Hexer will have chosen the specific spell desired at that level.
A Warlock of 12th level or higher gains the Imbue Item supernatural ability (Complete Arcane p.8) to create magic items even if he does not know the spells required to make an item. So a 12th level warlock with Scribe Scroll could potentially create scrolls of any divine spell. This also alleviates the issue of finding a caster who has chosen the specific spell desired, as the warlock can theoretically create any divine scroll as long as that spell is able to be a divine spell.
A member of the Sword of the Arcane Order prestige class (Champions of Valor p.34) can cast Wizard spells in their Paladin or Ranger slots. This prestige class does not specifically explain whether the spells remain arcane or become divine, so a DM ruling is needed before using this.* If the DM rules these are divine, then not only can you search out members of this prestige class to provide spells, but these would also be available to the 12th level warlock mentioned above. Note that Paladin and Ranger slots normally only go from 1st to 4th level, so this would make any Wizard spell in that range available, but not Cantrips or higher level spells. If using the Prestige Ranger or Paladin options from Unearthed Arcana however, these extend your base casting class by 7/15 or 8/15 levels, so can get up to 6th level 7th level spells.
A dual divine and arcane caster with the Alternative Source Spell feat (Dragon Magazine #325 p.61) can cast any of their arcane spells as divine spells. This potentially opens up any arcane spell to the archivist.
A dual divine and arcane caster with the Customize Domain feat (Dragon Magazine #325 p.61) can replace spells on their domain spell list with similar spells from any spell list they have access to. So they could put spells from their arcane spell list in their domain slots. Again, this potentially opens up any arcane spell to the archivist.
A divine caster with the spell Anyspell (Spell Compendium p.14) or Greater Anyspell (Spell Compendium p.15) can use the spell to cast an arcane spell of up to 2nd or 5th level respectively from their domain slot. Note that the wording does not explicitly state that the arcane spell is cast as divine, so a DM ruling is needed for this to work.*
An arcane caster with the Southern Magician feat (Races of Faerûn p.168) can cast any of his arcane spells as divine spells. Note that while it explicitly states this can be done, it somewhat confusingly adds that "the actual source of the spell's power doesn't change, nor does its means of preparation." So there is the possiblity of a DM ruling against this one too.*
A member of the Artificer class (Eberron Campaign Setting p.29) can create scrolls of any spell by using a Use Magic Device check instead of using the spell itself. Since magic items created by an artificer are considered neither arcane nor divine, this would normally prevent an Archivist from using such scrolls to add to her spell list. However, as was already noted above, two characters working together can each provide part of the prerequisites to craft a magic item. Since the Archivist already has the Scribe Scroll feat, she could create a divine scroll with assistance from an Artificer, who would only be needed to supply the UMD check in place of the spell. However, it could be argued that since "magic items created by an artificer are considered neither arcane nor divine" and when "collaboration occurs any place that the text "refers to the “creator” of a magic item, it includes all characters supplying at least one prerequisite for the item’s creation" that these are still created by an artificer and therefore neither arcane nor divine. So a DM ruling is going to be required here as well.*
A member of the Arcane Disciple variant class (Dragon Magazine #311 p.49) can add spells from the bard or sorcerer/wizard spell list up to 8th level (one level lower than the highest-level divine spell the character may cast, so 9th level if the caster has some way to gain access to 10th level spells.) to their spell list and cast them as divine spells.
A member of the Geomancer prestige class (Complete Divine p.41) can mix or match spellcasting parameters from his arcane and divine caster classes when casting spells. Since the rules don't explicitly call out exactly what does and does not constitute an eligible parameter, it is possible he could cast an arcane spell as a divine spell. Obviously this is another option that will require a DM ruling.*

*[Note to commenters - in the above list I sometimes mention that a DM ruling is required where the text of the relevant rules fails to explicitly support some part of the method in question. In doing so I am not attempting to take a position in favor or against the method, but merely pointing out the fact that DMs may not all agree that it works. If you would like to post a comment regarding one of these methods the most useful thing you can add would be to give your suggestions on what arguments a player could use to convince their DM to accept the method, or what arguments a DM could use to explain to their players why they aren't going to accept the method.]

Venger
2018-03-19, 10:37 AM
Very helpful resource. Bookmarked accordingly.

Regarding anyspell: when you cast it (let's assume you're a normal cleric and not a wyrm wizard, or anything weird like that) it is a divine spell. it never says to treat it as an arcane spell, so you don't. it remains divine.

Regarding southern magician: the bit referring to the "source of the spell" and its preparation means that if you're a wizard and cast something divinely, you are not susceptible to being cut off by your gods, and special powers relating to the source of your magic, such as shadow weave still apply. Since the feat explicitly makes your spell divine, a combative gm has no raw basis to stop it from working.

BowStreetRunner
2018-03-19, 10:50 AM
Regarding anyspell: when you cast it (let's assume you're a normal cleric and not a wyrm wizard, or anything weird like that) it is a divine spell. it never says to treat it as an arcane spell, so you don't. it remains divine.Note that the fact that Anyspell itself is Divine has never been in question. It's the arcane spell that you read and prepare that is ruled by some DMs as still being arcane. The text of anyspell states that you can read, prepare, and cast an arcane spell. The spell occupies your domain slot. But it never explicitly states that the arcane spell becomes a divine spell. So some DMs may not allow this method.

If they don't, there are enough alternate methods that you should be able to find at least one that works with any given DM for a particular spell you want!

Venger
2018-03-19, 10:54 AM
Note that the fact that Anyspell itself is Divine has never been in question. It's the arcane spell that you read and prepare that is ruled by some DMs as still being arcane. The text of anyspell states that you can read, prepare, and cast an arcane spell. The spell occupies your domain slot. But it never explicitly states that the arcane spell becomes a divine spell. So some DMs may not allow this method.

If they don't, there are enough alternate methods that you should be able to find at least one that works with any given DM for a particular spell you want!

Fair enough.

Yeah, you ought to be good.

Anthrowhale
2018-03-20, 06:06 AM
Pstchic reformation is a reasonably cheap way to rechoose class features like which spell arcane spell is taken as divine.

The Arcane Disciple cleric variant allows you to choose one sorcerer/wizard or bard spell to cast as a divine spell per level.

BowStreetRunner
2018-03-20, 07:35 AM
Pstchic reformation is a reasonably cheap way to rechoose class features like which spell arcane spell is taken as divine.

The Arcane Disciple cleric variant allows you to choose one sorcerer/wizard or bard spell to cast as a divine spell per level.

Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) may allow a character who had to choose one spell go back and take another, so is worth considering as a way to get around the limitations of some of the methods mentioned above.

As far as I am aware, Arcane Disciple is a feat that allows arcane casters to pick up domain spells. Divine Magician is the only ACF I know of that does what you are referring to, and I already included it above. If there is another that you were thinking of, please let me know the source and I will gladly add it.

Anthrowhale
2018-03-20, 07:42 AM
Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) may allow a character who had to choose one spell go back and take another, so is worth considering as a way to get around the limitations of some of the methods mentioned above.

As far as I am aware, Arcane Disciple is a feat that allows arcane casters to pick up domain spells. Divine Magician is the only ACF I know of that does what you are referring to, and I already included it above. If there is another that you were thinking of, please let me know the source and I will gladly add it.

Arcane Disciple is also a cleric variant in Dragon #311(?).

retaliation08
2018-03-20, 07:56 AM
Arcame disciple is a variant from the same issue, but it is inferior. You, instead of having domains or their spells slots, get 1 arcane spell per day and access to spells from thr magic domain. It also gives you d6 hp and 4+ skill points for wizard feats.

It is in all ways worse than a cloistered cleric divine magician except for medium armour use, bonus feats and a couple class skills.

Anthrowhale
2018-03-20, 08:18 AM
Arcame disciple is a variant from the same issue, but it is inferior. You, instead of having domains or their spells slots, get 1 arcane spell per day and access to spells from thr magic domain. It also gives you d6 hp and 4+ skill points for wizard feats.

It is in all ways worse than a cloistered cleric divine magician except for medium armour use, bonus feats and a couple class skills.

It is superior to divine magician in that there is no school limitation.

Anthrowhale
2018-03-20, 08:22 AM
One more while we are at it: Geomancer allows you to potentially cast any arcane spell as divine.

retaliation08
2018-03-20, 08:57 AM
It is superior to divine magician in that there is no school limitation.

Oh thanks. I forgot that important distinction.

BowStreetRunner
2018-03-20, 09:09 AM
One more while we are at it: Geomancer allows you to potentially cast any arcane spell as divine.
I'll be honest and admit that I don't get this one. While I did see some posts where it was suggested that this was possible I've never found an actual explanation of how it works. From what I read, the Geomancer has the following abilities:

When casting an arcane spell may

Use the divine material component/focus instead of the arcane version
Cast with no chance of arcane spell failure from wearing armor
Use the ability score modifier from the ability associated with his divine spells to set the save DC
Use an arcane spell or slot to fuel his cleric ability to spontaneously convert a spell or slot into a cure or inflict spell

When casting a divine spell may

Use the arcane material component/focus instead of the divine version
Use the ability score modifier from the ability associated with his arcane spells to set the save DC


I don't see anything in this that suggests they can cast arcane spells as divine spells and would therefore be able to put an arcane spell into a divine scroll for an Archivist. If someone could point to whatever I am missing I would be glad to add this to the list. However, without ever having seen anyone present an argument of how this works I've been assuming this was something of an urban legend being passed around by people who just never looked up the class.

Anthrowhale
2018-03-20, 03:57 PM
I'll be honest and admit that I don't get this one.
The strong wording is:


When he casts them, however, he can mix or match spellcasting parameters from any of his classes to gain the maximum possible advantage for any spell...
Everything else is just examples of this. Whether a spell is arcane or divine is a parameter which controls its effect. (Another unlisted parameter is caster level.)

Edit: Unrelated, Earth Spell can give access to conversion of 9th level Sorcerer/Wizard spells to Divine via Arcane Disciple clerics.

BowStreetRunner
2018-03-20, 04:42 PM
...Whether a spell is arcane or divine is a parameter which controls its effect...Ah, I see it now. (I'm not sure I agree with it, but I'm not here to impose my opinions on other people's games. :smallwink:) I'll add it but it definitely is going to be one of those that is dependent on how your particular DM sees it.

Tundralord
2018-03-20, 06:40 PM
Let's see if I can help a little bit:


First, I think you fail to highlight the most important and misunderstanded point about archivist casting: that an archivist can learn any divine, and also any arcane spell, using the cooperative item creation rules you listed above. Please note that a wizard can create an arcane scroll of "Cure minor wounds" (from the cleric list) but he can't use it, because it's not arcane, and the spell is not in his list. Simetrically, clerics can create scrolls of "mage armor" from the sor/wiz list, but they can't use it. An archivist can create, and use, divine scrolls of arcane spells, and write it in his spellbook. The reason is that Archivists cannot really have something like a "class list", and they have special mechanics that allow them to learn spell from other sources. That's really all we need, and mechanics are from core.
The point that there is not something like "archivist spell list" leads to different, and rarely spoken, problems. Like, technically, archivists could have a hard time using wands or similar items that requires having its spells in the class list of the user.
I think is very important to remark the differences beween: 1) what spells archivists, RAW, can learn -in a few words: everyone-; 2) what spells, RAI, archivists can learn -any divine spell, and there is "sage advice" about this point-; and 3) one interesting demographic trend: that exposure to archivist tend to produce ulcers and itching in the DMs. These three things are related, but completely different, issues.
If you want to take the domain route the spell "substituye domain" (from cleric list: you can learn it as new level spell) lets the archivist change one domain from every other domain from his deity/pantheon. How this interact with a divine spellcaster that needs no deity is not clear. Anyway, archivists have two ways to gain domain SLOTS: PrCs "Holt warden" and "Earthsaker" (Dragon #314). Its important to notice that this domain lists acts separately from the usual mechanics of the class: they are cleric domain list in every sense, and you dont need to write this spells in your prayerbook. If the archivist gain domains, but not domain slots, he really don't take any benefit. Rules for domain spells are in Complete divine, pg 20. It could be good to explain the complete thing, because rules that manage domains gained from PrCs are not exactly intuitive.
Hathran (PGtF) and durthan (UE) can cast any spell as divine, arcane, prepared or spontaneous, but only within the limits of the country of Rasehmen. There is a known trick using acorn of far travel for expanding this limits, and archivist can use it.
There is PrCs like hathran (listed above) and feats (like initiate feats from or outside Eberron) that expand even more the list of posible divine spells.
Some other mechanics are more complicated or extrange. For example, the feat "child of the winter" expand the kind of creatures can be summoned by SNA spells. "Proteus" is an interesting feat lets you cast spontaneously illusion (glamer) spells from any list. So looking for new spell lists is not the only way to acquire more spell variety.
In this sense, maybe its good to talk a bit about sanctified spells. Divine spellcasters can prepare any sanctified spell at will, so it could be interesting to remember that archivist have a brief list of spell that can prepare and cast without expending money and without a prayerbook. Some spells, like luminous armor, are even good!

Hope this help (and please excuse my spelling mistakes: I'm not a native english speaker).

Venger
2018-03-20, 06:48 PM
The point that there is not something like "archivist spell list" leads to different, and rarely spoken, problems. Like, technically, archivists could have a har time using wands or similar items that requires having its spells in the class list of the user.
I think is very important to remark the differences beween: 1) what spells archivists, RAW, can learn (in a few words: everyone); 2) what spells, RAI, archivist can learn (any divine spell, and there is "sage advice" about this point); and 3) one interesting demographic trend: that exposure to archivist tend to produce ulcers and itching in the DMs. There are related, but completely different, issues.
Archivists can learn any divine spells. Period. FAQ ≠ RAW



Hathran (PGtF) and durthan (UE) can cast any spell as divine, arcane, prepared or spontaneous, but only within the limits of the country of Rasehmen. There is a known trick using acorn of far travel for expanding this limits, and archivist can use it.
No they can't.

You can enter as either an arcane or divine caster and cast what you already have access to, but if you entered as an arcane caster, hathran gives you no power to convert your spells into divine ones.

Place magic is a class feature of hathran. If a hathran gave an archivist a divine scroll, the archivist wouldn't get place magic unless he was also a hathran

Tundralord
2018-03-20, 06:59 PM
You can enter as either an arcane or divine caster and cast what you already have access to, but if you entered as an arcane caster, hathran gives you no power to convert your spells into divine ones.

Place magic is a class feature of hathran. If a hathran gave an archivist a divine scroll, the archivist wouldn't get place magic unless he was also a hathran
...And an archivist can be also a hathran.

A hathran can cast any of his spells as divine or arcane.
Rules for creating scrolls say that the scroll is arcane or divine depending of the nature of his creator. Hathran is both: arcane and divine. So hathan as a font of scrolls can work (other issue is that hathran have an oath that impedes her from making magic items: this is the reason durthan is important here).

And about FAQ: there are some differences beween the Custom service (FAQ if you prefer) and the sage advice... and other official material. Considering how little official information we have about archivist I think quoting the sage advice is not a bad idea.

Venger
2018-03-20, 07:02 PM
...And an archivist can be also a hathran.
Sure they can


A hathran can cast any of his spells as divine or arcane.
1) Hathran are all women
2) For the second time, no they can't. What are you basing this on?

Tundralord
2018-03-20, 07:13 PM
1) Hathran are all women
2) For the second time, no they can't. What are you basing this on?

Archivists can be women also... I think.

This quote is from durthan class:

Durthans possess a special bond to the land of Rashemen that lets them draw upon the power of the spirits to cast spells without preparing them. When a hathran or durthan uses place magic, she can cast any arcane or divine spell known to her. (Spells on her hathran or durthan spell list can be cast as either arcane or divine spells, as she desires)

For the hathran class there is a similar text under "place magic": Unapproachable east chapter 4.

Venger
2018-03-20, 07:28 PM
That only refers to the unique hathran spells you add to your list. You can't alter the spells you entered the class with to be arcane/divine.

Zombulian
2018-03-22, 01:51 PM
It should be noted that a Mystic Ranger has access to cantrips as well as up to 5th level spells if you wanna mess with SotAO
cheese.

Thurbane
2018-03-22, 04:04 PM
Draconic Legacy on a Divine Caster can add a lot of different spells to their class lists (refer to the table on RotD p.103).

I have pondered this path before for Favored Soul entry into Hexer (requires Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage + 3 other draconic feats). Topaz heritage get's Lightning Bolt.

...although it's probably just more straightforward to get a scroll from the relevant caster with the Southern Magician feat.