[3.5] Were-rat Necromancer

[Thurbane]

So, an awesome piece of artwork inspired me to create a Were-rat Necromancer as an NPC/villain for my game. (Russ Nicholson, did a lot of 1E D&D art).

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bB6VMl3z-MQ/WGfl6MSebxI/AAAAAAAAE0U/WTOJTUL-6PsBjtB7v7UXr4HAFBUDdp7cQCLcB/s1600/12047143_10154256185958171_n.jpg
Problem is, Lycanthropes can't cast while in hybrid form. I mean of course, he could just stay in human form, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Is there any ways that allow a Lycanthrope to cast spells? I seem to recall a FR PrC that might do this?

Also, would an Amulet of Freedom of Speech (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22719023&postcount=481) work?

Basically what I'm looking for is a way for a Were-rat to cast spells in hybrid form.

Cheers - T

[Fizban]

Savage Species has it as a feat for DMs that don't want to handwave it without permission, Surrogate Spellcasting lets you wave the limbs and make noise to cast spells no matter what your form is.

[Thurbane]

Actually, just re-read, and it's only spells with a verbal component:


A lycanthrope spellcaster cannot cast spells with verbal, somatic, or material components while in animal form, or spells with verbal components while in hybrid form.

Silent Spell or a Metamagic Rod of Silent Spell would work.


Savage Species has it as a feat for DMs that don't want to handwave it without permission, Surrogate Spellcasting lets you wave the limbs and make noise to cast spells no matter what your form is.

Good point.

[BlackOnyx]

A bit off topic, but if you're simply interested in the "rat necromancer" motif, there's always the Nezumi race from Oriental Adventures. LA +0 could be useful depending on what sort of build you're going for. (I'd toyed with the idea of building one in the past.)


That said, the "corrupted soul" aspect of a were-rat necromancer is sick as hell and should absolutely be encouraged.

[Thurbane]

A bit off topic, but if you're simply interested in the "rat necromancer" motif, there's always the Nezumi race from Oriental Adventures. LA +0 could be useful depending on what sort of build you're going for. (I'd toyed with the idea of building one in the past.)


That said, the "corrupted soul" aspect of a were-rat necromancer is sick as hell and should absolutely be encouraged.

Hmm, makes me wonder what a Nezumi Wer-rat would look like in it's hybrid form? :smalltongue:

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/oa_gallery/Sorcerer.jpg

[Falontani]

The class Death Master can cast spells with a somatic component without the somatic component by substituting an optional material component: blood. Which only helps your awesomeness. It also allows you to become a lich at level 20 even though your a monstrous humanoid. (Even if you decide to become a necropoliton)

[Zombimode]

So, an awesome piece of artwork inspired me to create a Were-rat Necromancer as an NPC/villain for my game. (Russ Nicholson, did a lot of 1E D&D art).

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bB6VMl3z-MQ/WGfl6MSebxI/AAAAAAAAE0U/WTOJTUL-6PsBjtB7v7UXr4HAFBUDdp7cQCLcB/s1600/12047143_10154256185958171_n.jpg
Problem is, Lycanthropes can't cast while in hybrid form. I mean of course, he could just stay in human form, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Is there any ways that allow a Lycanthrope to cast spells? I seem to recall a FR PrC that might do this?

Also, would an Amulet of Freedom of Speech (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22719023&postcount=481) work?

Basically what I'm looking for is a way for a Were-rat to cast spells in hybrid form.

Cheers - T

I'm at a loss. Why do you think a Wer-Rat can not cast spells while in hybrid form?
I could not find anything in the rules that says so.

[Uncle Pine]

So, an awesome piece of artwork inspired me to create a Were-rat Necromancer as an NPC/villain for my game. (Russ Nicholson, did a lot of 1E D&D art).

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bB6VMl3z-MQ/WGfl6MSebxI/AAAAAAAAE0U/WTOJTUL-6PsBjtB7v7UXr4HAFBUDdp7cQCLcB/s1600/12047143_10154256185958171_n.jpg
Problem is, Lycanthropes can't cast while in hybrid form. I mean of course, he could just stay in human form, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Is there any ways that allow a Lycanthrope to cast spells? I seem to recall a FR PrC that might do this?

Also, would an Amulet of Freedom of Speech (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22719023&postcount=481) work?

Basically what I'm looking for is a way for a Were-rat to cast spells in hybrid form.

Cheers - T


I'm at a loss. Why do you think a Wer-Rat can not cast spells while in hybrid form?
I could not find anything in the rules that says so.

It's in the section about creating a lycanthrope, under Special Attacks. However, lycanthrope in hybrid form are only precluded from casting spells with verbal components:


A lycanthrope spellcaster cannot cast spells with verbal, somatic, or material components while in animal form, or spells with verbal components while in hybrid form.

A single level of Black Blood Hunter (PGtF 177) lifts this restriction.

[Zaq]

It’s an OP option, but if you’re the GM, you can just choose not to do anything crazy OP with it—Spell-to-Power Erudite can get arcane effects on the field without any V/S/M components.

[KillianHawkeye]

So are they implying that hybrid form were-creatures cannot properly speak? That's probably not the way I would have gone with it, since it only makes sense for lycanthropes as monsters rather than functional people/characters.

[Zombimode]

It's in the section about creating a lycanthrope, under Special Attacks. However, lycanthrope in hybrid form are only precluded from casting spells with verbal components:

Ah, I've missed that line. Thanks!

It certainly is an odd rule, however. Especially Wererats are usually portrayed as being fully capable of speech in hybrid form.

[Segev]

Ah, I've missed that line. Thanks!

It certainly is an odd rule, however. Especially Wererats are usually portrayed as being fully capable of speech in hybrid form.

Agreed. I'd never noticed/recalled that bit about hybrid forms. I'd personally just house rule it away.

[Bohandas]

So are they implying that hybrid form were-creatures cannot properly speak? That's probably not the way I would have gone with it, since it only makes sense for lycanthropes as monsters rather than functional people/characters.

I agree. That's strange.


Agreed. I'd never noticed/recalled that bit about hybrid forms. I'd personally just house rule it away.

Seconded, especially since they went to all that trouble to hide the rule where nobody would see it.

[ShurikVch]

There is also Lycanthropic Spell feat in the Faiths & Pantheons

Shifter's Speech - 1st-level CF of Master of Many Forms - also will work there

Besides that, Kingdoms of Kalamar have Ratfolk - 2 HD Medium Humanoid with LA +0, disease immunity, low-light vision, and scent

Or Anthropomorphic Rat from the Savage Species

[Thurbane]

The class Death Master can cast spells with a somatic component without the somatic component by substituting an optional material component: blood. Which only helps your awesomeness. It also allows you to become a lich at level 20 even though your a monstrous humanoid. (Even if you decide to become a necropoliton)

Awesome pickup! Thank you.

Just FYI though, a Human Lycanthrope is still a Humanoid, not a Monstrous Humanoid.


A single level of Black Blood Hunter (PGtF 177) lifts this restriction.

That's the one I was trying to recall in the OP. Cheers.


There is also Lycanthropic Spell feat in the Faiths & Pantheons

Perfect! Your ability to find obscure material never fails to impress me, ShurikVch. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/sand/icons/icon_thumbsup.png

Thanks all for the excellent feedback and suggestions.

Just as an aside, do we agree that the Amulet of Freedom of Speech would work? That would free up feats and/or class levels.


Amulet of Freedom of Speech
This amulet allows the wearer to verbally communicate despite lacking the physical ability to do so. For example, an awakened animal or plant that could not normally form words can do so while wearing this item. Note that the amulet does not impart any language ability—the wearer must have something to say.
Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item; Market Price: 5,000.

[Falontani]

I would expect it to allow you to cast vocal only spells in animal form even, if your still wearing it at least, the transformation into animal is kind of.... intense?

[The Viscount]

I definitely agree that an amulet of freedom of speech would work just as well for allowing verbal components. Some might say the pearl of speech from MIC would also work.