Con Modifier to Damage?

[Kaelik]

Hi. I was just wondering if anyone could help me if they knew a way to add ones Constitution modifier to damage on a regular basis (IE not X times a day, but every attack.) I checked x stat to y bonus, but all they had was a particular special weapon (not even weapon property.)

If there is something that you know of please let me know.

[elliott20]

CON MOD to damage? What are you going to do, be so ridiculously healthy that you outlive the guy?

[Lapak]

CON MOD to damage? What are you going to do, be so ridiculously healthy that you outlive the guy?Obviously, your immune system is SO powerful it can project itself outside your body.

"I cast Summon Swarm (White Blood Cells)!"

[Krellen]

Well, it's a little round-about, but if you get a natural poison attack, the save is Con-based, so that's sort of like Con-bonus to damage, right?

[elliott20]

"aww man I hope that's really just white blood cells"

[goat]

The problem with that, is that (personally, at least) I can't think of a fluff reason why it would ever occur.

[Kaelik]

Well, it's a little round-about, but if you get a natural poison attack, the save is Con-based, so that's sort of like Con-bonus to damage, right?

It is round about, and not at all what I am looking for. Thank you very much. The thing is this is for a character with something like straight 14s for stats, and I can get every other stat on damage. So I'm looking for Con to perfect the character.

EDIT @goat: indeed. Neither can I, except that WotC sometimes comes up with crazy fluff that I would never have thought of. For example, I know there is a Weapon that does it, but it is a specific Hammer. And as part of getting dex to damage I can't be using a Hammer.

[Falrin]

To get a Dwarven Defender, steadfast Determination feat & (Con to damage) build of course.

[Quietus]

It is round about, and not at all what I am looking for. Thank you very much. The thing is this is for a character with something like straight 14s for stats, and I can get every other stat on damage. So I'm looking for Con to perfect the character.

You could do it with Insightful Strike from the Tome of Battle, which lets you replace an attack with a concentration check. Not EXACTLY what you're looking for, but closer than a DC increase for poison.

[Tellah]

Page 66 of Magic of Rokugan has the Mountain of Earth, which applies Con to damage.

This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=320889) offers the most complete list I've seen of ability modifiers applied to various bonuses.

[Kaelik]

To get a Dwarven Defender, steadfast Determination feat & (Con to damage) build of course.

What's this? Can that happen? Or are you just pointing out a way that this could be used effectively?

EDIT: I would count those Concentration checks except that aren't they limited in uses per day?

And I know of the Hammer, I believe I specifically mentioned that thread.

[Kayeich]

The diamond mind manuevers, which use concentration, can be refreshed with a swift action by the Warblade class if you also attack the same round. So you could use them every round if you don't use any other strike manuever that uses up your swift action.

[Lord Tataraus]

I would count those Concentration checks except that aren't they limited in uses per day?

uses per encounter (they're ToB).

EDIT: ninja'd

[Tellah]

And I know of the Hammer, I believe I specifically mentioned that thread.

I must be missing something, then. Why does the Hammer of Earth not fit the bill for you?

[Kaelik]

I must be missing something, then. Why does the Hammer of Earth not fit the bill for you?

Because in order to get Dex to damage I would need to be wielding a Shadow Hand weapon, of which the Hammer is not. If it were an ability that could be applied to the weapon that would be another thing.

I'm confused? Insightful Strikes? Or Diamond Body Manuvers? Which one are they? And at what level would I be able to get them.

[Douglas]

Insightful Strike and Greater Insightful Strike are specific maneuvers from the Diamond Mind discipline in Tome of Battle. Insightful Strike allows you to make a single attack as a standard action and do damage equal to your concentration skill check result. Greater Insightful Strike is the same thing except you double the check's result. Both of them have the slight problem of completely replacing your normal damage, however, so you wouldn't get all your other ability score bonus to damage bonuses at the same time unless you could somehow apply them to your concentration skill.

[The Mormegil]

He needs some kinda weapon to add Dex. Probably 'cause of Shadow Blade, it's the less tricky way to get it, and you get Wis also a pair of levels after that, even though THAT is limited by manoeuvres.
OR he is using other abilities that stack better.
Grater Insightful Strike (and Insightful Strike) are not good for you: they indeed are based out of Concentration checks, but they SPECIFICALLY tell that no other bonuses stack with that damage!

So, I think there is only one way to change your situation: use the hammer and take the fierce enchantment for Dex. Reduces AC but the only way 'round.

[Kaelik]

He needs some kinda weapon to add Dex. Probably 'cause of Shadow Blade, it's the less tricky way to get it, and you get Wis also a pair of levels after that, even though THAT is limited by manoeuvres.
OR he is using other abilities that stack better.
Grater Insightful Strike (and Insightful Strike) are not good for you: they indeed are based out of Concentration checks, but they SPECIFICALLY tell that no other bonuses stack with that damage!

So, I think there is only one way to change your situation: use the hammer and take the fierce enchantment for Dex. Reduces AC but the only way 'round.

Fierce Enchantment? What's that? Thank you very much though. Shadow Hand Stance, however Wisdom can come from Swordsage, (limited by maneuvers) but might also come from Battlesmith in Races of Stone. (I saw that in x stat to y bonus and thought I might go for that.) Yes, I guess concentration checks are out then. Maybe this fierce enchantment can help me out with Dex and allow me to skip ToB all together (not that I don't like it, but Sword Sage and ToB in general don't fit a character that is aiming for Pounce and Full attacks with two weapons.

[Fax Celestis]

not that I don't like it, but Sword Sage and ToB in general don't fit a character that is aiming for Pounce and Full attacks with two weapons.
...w-what? Did you gloss over the whole Tiger Claw discipline?

[Person_Man]

Dragonfire Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2) has a breath weapon with a Con based Save DC. It's also a very solid class.

Also, the true source of melee damage is not static bonuses, such as things that add Dex or Int to damage. Its scaled bonuses, such as things that are based on BAB or Skill checks, add extra attacks, or multiply damage. So in most cases you shouldn't waste feats/items/class abilities trying to get X to Y, unless X is a particularly large number.

[Kaelik]

Dragonfire Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2) has a breath weapon with a Con based Save DC. It's also a very solid class.

Thank you for not reading the thread???

@Fax. Manuvers yes, I noticed the prestige class was worse then one level of Barbarian for getting pounce, and since I needed a Shadow hand stance for Dex Damage, and therefore Shadow Hand strikes for Wis (hopefully both those will change as the character develops) I didn't much bother looking at Tiger Claw strikes. I'll look at them, but since most every strike I've ever seen was limited to a standard action and not usable in a full attack, I don't see why Tiger Claw would change that.

EDIT: Okay, looked over Tiger Claw, and while building a character based on it would be a very good character, for this build which requires levels in Swashbuckler and Bard (and probably Battlesmith?) One level of Barbarian is a lot better way to get pounce then manuvers that need refreshing and are fifth level before they equal that level one ability. (Plus if I can get Con to damage then rage is doubly useful.)

[Fax Celestis]

Thank you for not reading the thread???

@Fax. Manuvers yes, I noticed the prestige class was worse then one level of Barbarian for getting pounce, and since I needed a Shadow hand stance for Dex Damage, and therefore Shadow Hand strikes for Wis (hopefully both those will change as the character develops) I didn't much bother looking at Tiger Claw strikes. I'll look at them, but since most every strike I've ever seen was limited to a standard action and not usable in a full attack, I don't see why Tiger Claw would change that.

Tiger Claw's thing is centered around attacking with two weapons.

If you're looking for TWF-pounce action, Barbarian 1 (Lion Totem)/Swordsage X/Bloodclaw Master 3 is a good bet. You don't suffer TWF penalties, you have pounce, and you have maneuvers.

Futher, there are a number of Tiger Claw maneuvers that do remarkably well with TWF. Off the top of my head, Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (for incredible rending damage), Blood in the Water, Dancing Mongoose, Death From Above, Wolf Fang Strike, Swooping Dragon Strike, and Flesh Ripper all immediately come to mind.

[Kaelik]

Tiger Claw's thing is centered around attacking with two weapons.

If you're looking for TWF-pounce action, Barbarian 1 (Lion Totem)/Swordsage X/Bloodclaw Master 3 is a good bet. You don't suffer TWF penalties, you have pounce, and you have maneuvers.

Futher, there are a number of Tiger Claw maneuvers that do remarkably well with TWF. Off the top of my head, Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (for incredible rending damage), Blood in the Water, Dancing Mongoose, Death From Above, Wolf Fang Strike, Swooping Dragon Strike, and Flesh Ripper all immediately come to mind.

I looked at it and yes, such a character would be good, but is not at all what I'm trying to build. I'm not going for a two weapon fighter so much as I am going for applying the mod of every single stat to damage. I have straight fourteens for stats and I wanted to try this out. Pounce and two weapon fighting are just ways to better capitalize on the fact that all my stats apply to damage, not the goal in and of themselves.

[Kaelik]

I guess Battlesmith is incompatible with the build, though it has given me an idea for mixing it with Mountain of Earth. I guess I'm back to using Shadow Hand maneuvers, unless I missed something and the sword sage insightful strike can be used with maneuvers that are of a different school then the weapons he is wielding. I still don't seem to have con to damage though.

And I still don't like that most strikes can't be used as part of a full attack.

[slexlollar89]

There is a rapier in Amrs and Equipment, way in the back with all the specific weapons. The rapier is +2, and allows you to apply your dex to damage INSTEAD of str. if you subtract out the +2 rapier cost, you can geta weapon ability that lets you apply any mod to dmg rolls, in leiu of str. I think the cost is 57000gp. This is the best i can do for you man :smallsmile: !

[Douglas]

The Swordsage's Insightful Strike ability to add wisdom to strike damage doesn't care what weapon you use at all. The only thing that matters is which discipline the strike you're using is in.

There are exactly three full attack strikes that I am aware of, and I've gone through the entire list pretty thoroughly for multiple different builds. They are Flashing Sun (Desert Wind), Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw), and Time Stands Still (Diamond Mind). Avalanche of Blades is a pseudo full attack if your attack bonus is high enough, and a few other maneuvers include multiple attacks, but I don't think any of them let you make more than two attacks against the same target and they don't use your full attack routine at all.

[The Glyphstone]

If this character does manage to work out, you should try to get a hold of a Belt of Magnificence...:smallsmile: :smallbiggrin:

[daggaz]

"I have all the others so now I just need con to damage so I can "perfect" the character. Emphasis mine.

Man... talk about munchkining.

[Merlin the Tuna]

X Stat to Y Bonus. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=4584975)

[Kaelik]

"I have all the others so now I just need con to damage so I can "perfect" the character. Emphasis mine.

Man... talk about munchkining.

Right, except that "perfecting" the character consists only of being able to use every stat for damage. Not being all powerful. Since a barbarian/frenzied berserker is going to do more damage and a Wizard is going to make him pointless to begin with.

What's so munchkin about a perfecting the concept of my character.

And thanks Merlin for not reading anything at all, since that thread was mentioned three times and the basis of discussion already.

[Neon Knight]

And I still don't like that most strikes can't be used as part of a full attack.

Most strikes are equivalent to a full attack, without all the weaknesses of a full attack.

[TheOOB]

You could always homebrew a weapon enhancement. Replacing strength with constitution would be about a +1 enhancement, and replacing strength for attack as well would likely be about +2.

Really this works for most attributes.

[Kaelik]

Most strikes are equivalent to a full attack, without all the weaknesses of a full attack.

Except that the point of the character is to get many attacks that all do extra damage based on each of his stats. And the "weaknesses of a full attack" are largely negated by a single level of Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian. (Pounce at lvl 1.)

Replacing anything defeats the purpose of having all stats end.

Yes, how munchkiny of me. I mean, good thing I explained why I want this type of character and his backstory, so you can say that with justification. Oh wait, I only talked about the mechanics because that's the only part I needed help with, and you have no idea of the other aspects of my character.

[daggaz]

Well, I suppose I call it munchkining, because im one of those old school purists who goes in for story and such slightly more than for mechanic.

Your character concept is pure mechanics... You realize, if you took the time, you could just program all the splat books into a computer and get a read out on all the possible build optimizations, dependant on whatever you want to prioritize first? Its... its just munchkiny... people who care more about the numbers going their way than they do about the actual game... sorry.

[Kaelik]

You could always homebrew a weapon enhancement. Replacing strength with constitution would be about a +1 enhancement, and replacing strength for attack as well would likely be about +2.

Really this works for most attributes.

Except that "replacing" anything defeats the purpose of adding all of my stats.

Yes, how munchkiny of me. I mean, good thing I explained why I want this type of character and his backstory, so you can say that with justification. Oh wait, I only talked about the mechanics because that's the only part I needed help with, and you have no idea of the other aspects of my character.

[Neon Knight]

Except that the point of the character is to get many attacks that all do extra damage based on each of his stats. And the "weaknesses of a full attack" are largely negated by a single level of Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian. (Pounce at lvl 1.)

You'd be how surprised how easy it is to shut down charges.

On the actual subject at hand, it does appear that the aforementioned magical hammer is the only method to get CON to damage. Some homebrew might be in order.

[TOAOMT]

Can't help with the mechanic aspect, but I can think of a good fluff way to justify it. Say your constitution is developed so that you can expend extra force that would normal tear your muscles and the like, but this feat allows you to do so without harm. As a result, you add your con bonus to damage because you can get that much extra "oomph" from using force that would normally hurt you.

I know it's poorly described right now, but I'm very tired. I hope the idea got across though, it kind'a sort'a makes sense.

[Thinker]

Well, I suppose I call it munchkining, because im one of those old school purists who goes in for story and such slightly more than for mechanic.

Your character concept is pure mechanics... You realize, if you took the time, you could just program all the splat books into a computer and get a read out on all the possible build optimizations, dependant on whatever you want to prioritize first? Its... its just munchkiny... people who care more about the numbers going their way than they do about the actual game... sorry.

You realize that from an optimization standpoint this isn't nearly as strong as others out there, right? It is fun to explore the mechanics of a game, even if it isn't applied to the game itself. In this case it seems as though it is, but that doesn't mean its "ZOMG BorKEN!" In this case the build at hand does not even seem to violate any sort of viable story. He is not asking for background critique, he is simply looking for a method to match what he already has.

[TheOOB]

As long as the constitution modifier replaces the strength modifier, theres not a huge amount of abuse possible. Sure your damage is now based on the same stat that your hp and fort saves are, but really that doesn't let you get any higher damage then if you pumped strength.

[Kaelik]

As long as the constitution modifier replaces the strength modifier, theres not a huge amount of abuse possible. Sure your damage is now based on the same stat that your hp and fort saves are, but really that doesn't let you get any higher damage then if you pumped strength.

The point is, for about the billionth time, Every Stat to damage simultaneously! Not replace. All at once! Still not broken! Not that it matters. If I can do it for every stat but Con, why can I not do it for Con? (except with a Hammer from 3.0 OA)

[Behold_the_Void]

I'd probably be more inclined to help if you were politer, but from what I can see it can't be done without the hammer, which you can't use for your Shadow Blade feat anyway.