Zatoichi the blind swordsman

[FabulousFizban]

I have been watching too many samurai movies lately, and now i want to roll up and play a blind swordsman. i don't know how to go about it. what are your ideas on building such a character?

EDIT: i would prefer to avoid homebrew or third party, but am open to reading such material and suggestions for the purpose of idea gathering.

[clash]

What restrictions are you dealing with? Is a homebrew solution allowed?

[strangebloke]

There are a couple of ways of getting around blindness.

-Get a familiar and look through their eyes.

-Another solid method is to build a character that always has advantage and the Alert feat, such that he never has advantage or disadvantage and nobody gets advantage against him for being unseen. You'll be weaker than average, but still not too bad.

-ask your DM and see if you can get very short-range blindsense, like 10 feet or so. This sort of thing is kind of bad form at some tables, but it'd be fine at mine.

[Aett_Thorn]

For the actual build, I would go either Kensei Monk, Samurai Fighter, or combination of the two. Probably go Criminal Background to reflect his days of working with the Yakuza.

As far as how to play a blind character, I would agree with Strangebloke that you should ask to have a limited blindsense. 10' works, and you can always try to take the Alert feat to cancel out advantage for attacks against you.

I would also work with the DM to create interesting effects with spells that would grant advantage/disadvantage. For instance, you won't be able to gain advantage on attacks thanks to Faerie Fire, and Silence might mess with your blindsense.

[Vogie]

If UA is allowed, Raven Queen Warlock 1/ Samurai or Cavalier Fighter X

If UA is not allowed (or if you want improved criticals), Hexblade Warlock 3 (pact of the Chain, Voice of the Chain Master) / Samurai or Cavalier Fighter X

Either way, you see through your familiar, who is either invisible, flying over the battlefield, or both, while you do your swordsman thang. I would prefer RQ, for both the smaller dip, and the Sanctuary spell. When I think of Swordsman, I think two handed sword, so Hex warrior won't be of great use - however, the Improved criticals & bonus damage from Hexblade's curse more than makes up for it.

As for the fighter archetypes, I would choose Samurai if you're going to be going in alone and going to town as your party hangs back. However, if there are other melees in your group, Cavalier will be superior, because their very existence will give you advantage and extra attacks.

[ruy343]

There are a couple of ways of getting around blindness.

-Get a familiar and look through their eyes.

-Another solid method is to build a character that always has advantage and the Alert feat, such that he never has advantage or disadvantage and nobody gets advantage against him for being unseen. You'll be weaker than average, but still not too bad.

-ask your DM and see if you can get very short-range blindsense, like 10 feet or so. This sort of thing is kind of bad form at some tables, but it'd be fine at mine.

Another method is to have 14 levels of rogue, which grants you the "Blindsense" ability to "know the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you". Granted, it's a high-level ability, but it's really more of a ribbon than anything game-breaking.

[JackPhoenix]

Barbarian, Reckless Attack all the time to negate the disadvantage on attack, you'll grant advantage to attack you anyway thanks to being blind. You'll never get advantage, though. No need for Alert feat then.


-Get a familiar and look through their eyes.

You have to spend an action every turn to look through familiar's eyes, which means you won't be able to do anything.

[strangebloke]

You have to spend an action every turn to look through familiar's eyes, which means you won't be able to do anything.

True, I guess you'd have to get dispensation from your DM to completely substitute the familiars vision for your own. It's hardly a buff so I don't see why they wouldn't allow it.

[JackPhoenix]

True, I guess you'd have to get dispensation from your DM to completely substitute the familiars vision for your own. It's hardly a buff so I don't see why they wouldn't allow it.

At that point, you're purely in homebrew territory, just like with the blindsight, so all bets are off.

[Arkhios]

I'd say plain and simple Samurai (from XGtE, not UA)

...Great Movie btw. I even have the DVD. :smallbiggrin:

[rbstr]

Barbarian, Reckless Attack all the time to negate the disadvantage on attack, you'll grant advantage to attack you anyway thanks to being blind. You'll never get advantage, though. No need for Alert feat then.

I agree with this. Reckless attack is probably the earliest and easiest way to negate blindness disadvantage on attacks. The biggest thing is that it's always on and resource free. You're gonna get hit a lot so the damage resistance is going to be very handy. I would be mostly barbarian.

MC with fighter up to 4 levels: Any of them work really well with Barb. Cavalier might give you some of that parrying-swordsman feel with Warding Manuever at level 7. Samurai is a little THP but otherwise not great since the advantage you get is useless since enemies always have advantage against you (that is, it's not better than reckless attack for this specific character). Battlemaster has fun stuff too.

MC Kensei for up to 4 levels: A decent bonus-action attack and can still use the longsword after level 3. You can still use strength with all the monk martial arts stuff and it works for you here.

I'd stay away from spellcasting, too much "you can see" going on there.

[FabulousFizban]

There are a couple of ways of getting around blindness.

-Get a familiar and look through their eyes.

-Another solid method is to build a character that always has advantage and the Alert feat, such that he never has advantage or disadvantage and nobody gets advantage against him for being unseen. You'll be weaker than average, but still not too bad.

-ask your DM and see if you can get very short-range blindsense, like 10 feet or so. This sort of thing is kind of bad form at some tables, but it'd be fine at mine.

i had immediately considered the familiar thing, but using a familiar's senses require an action. still not terrible

[Arkhios]

I agree with this. Reckless attack is probably the earliest and easiest way to negate blindness disadvantage on attacks. The biggest thing is that it's always on and resource free. You're gonna get hit a lot so the damage resistance is going to be very handy. I would be mostly barbarian.

MC with fighter up to 4 levels: Any of them work really well with Barb. Cavalier might give you some of that parrying-swordsman feel with Warding Manuever at level 7. Samurai is a little THP but otherwise not great since the advantage you get is useless since enemies always have advantage against you (that is, it's not better than reckless attack for this specific character). Battlemaster has fun stuff too.

MC Kensei for up to 4 levels: A decent bonus-action attack and can still use the longsword after level 3. You can still use strength with all the monk martial arts stuff and it works for you here.

I'd stay away from spellcasting, too much "you can see" going on there.

One funny idea came to me just now, having read this.

Barbarian can, indeed, negate disadvantage from blindness. But, if you were to MC with Monk, and took mostly Monk levels, you could - in theory - maintain Dodge (although it costs 1 ki and takes a bonus action) for every combat, to negate being hit too much! :D

[clash]

Fog cloud is another idea. if you can keep it from hindering your allies. In fog cloud everyone is blind so no disadvantage or advantage to anyone.

[xroads]

For the actual build, I would go either Kensei Monk, Samurai Fighter, or combination of the two. Probably go Criminal Background to reflect his days of working with the Yakuza.

I agree. This would be a good build.

As for the blindness, I recommend just fluffing it. Say that your character is blind but has learned to use his other senses to such a degree that he has no real disadvantage.

From time to time you might run into a scenario where fluffing it might bend verisimilitude a bit. Like explaining why your character is still hindered by darkness. But this is fantasy, so if you make up an excuse that uses the words "magic" and/or "curse", you should be fine.

Edit:

Alternatively, play a drow elf or a kobold. Neither race is blind, but they are at disadvantage in daylight. So you can get kind of the same blind swordsman flavor without the normal penalties associated with it.

[Daithi]

Suppose your character starts as some kind of swordsman (samurai, kensai, fighter, whatever) and gets blinded. So, he becomes a a warlock to get a familiar whose eyes (or senses) he can use. As a warlock he can cast darkness and with the imp he can see through the imp's eyes. Or he can go with a quasit, which can take the bat form and give him the bat's blindsight. Then he switches back to his swordsman class.

Alternatively, your DM could give you some kind of magic item that provides blindsight or tremorsense.

[DarkKnightJin]

Suppose your character starts as some kind of swordsman (samurai, kensai, fighter, whatever) and gets blinded. So, he becomes a a warlock to get a familiar whose eyes (or senses) he can use. As a warlock he can cast darkness and with the imp he can see through the imp's eyes. Or he can go with a quasit, which can take the bat form and give him the bat's blindsight. Then he switches back to his swordsman class.

Alternatively, your DM could give you some kind of magic item that provides blindsight or tremorsense.

*Ring of the Blind Bandit*
Ring, [pick a rarity] (requires attunement)
While attuned to this ring, you have Tremorsense out to (30-60) feet.

[Quoxis]

Samurai is a little THP but otherwise not great since the advantage you get is useless since enemies always have advantage against you

What?
Samurai advantage comes free of the downsides of reckless attack (e.g.: enemies don’t get advantage on attacks against you), so i‘d say samurai is definitely adding to the build:
Get advantage to cancel out the blindness for 3 turns WITHOUT giving your opponents advantage, and if they’re still standing after those turns you can fall back onto reckless attack.
Even full barbarians aren’t supposed to constantly and exclusively use reckless attack, in a fight with multiple opponents which all have advantage on their attacks even a d12 hit die class will go down quickly.

Edit: Forgot that being blinded automatically grants your opponents advantage, so reckless attack is indeed the better option.

[smcmike]

What?
Samurai advantage comes free of the downsides of reckless attack (e.g.: enemies don’t get advantage on attacks against you), so i‘d say samurai is definitely adding to the build:
Get advantage to cancel out the blindness for 3 turns WITHOUT giving your opponents advantage, and if they’re still standing after those turns you can fall back onto reckless attack.
Even full barbarians aren’t supposed to constantly and exclusively use reckless attack, in a fight with multiple opponents which all have advantage on their attacks even a d12 hit die class will go down quickly.

Your enemies already have advantage. You are blind.

[DarkKnightJin]

Your enemies already have advantage. You are blind.

That's what the Alert feat is for.

[Vogie]

Fog cloud is another idea. if you can keep it from hindering your allies. In fog cloud everyone is blind so no disadvantage or advantage to anyone.

That's actually a really good point. You can do the same with darkness as well. Channel a bit of the old Kuchisake-onna tales, or other beings that strike from the darkness or fog.

I think an interesting build would be Shadow Sorcerer 3 / BarBearian 3 / Samurai Fighter X

Samurai core for the expert swordsman route, and generation of advantage with no downside, as well as increasingly large amounts of THP. Because you'll never truly have advantage, going 15 doesn't really do much.
Shadow Sorcerer can cast both Fog Cloud and Darkness, even able to cast Darkness by sorcery points alone. Starting a fight by casting True Strike right before initiative would also allow you to negate disadvantage at first blush, or using sorcery points to Quicken True Strike.
Barbarian for the extra damage, free ability to negate your disadvantage through reckless attack, and bear totem's resistance to all damage while raging.

[Quoxis]

Your enemies already have advantage. You are blind.

Dangnabbit, totally forgot about that second disadvantage of blindness.
Forget i said anything, i‘ma edit it as soon as i‘m back on my pc (no idea how fonts etc. work on mobile version).

[smcmike]

Dangnabbit, totally forgot about that second disadvantage of blindness.
Forget i said anything, i‘ma edit it as soon as i‘m back on my pc (no idea how fonts etc. work on mobile version).

Actually, I didn’t realize people were using Alert. I’m not actually clear whether that works or not, though.

[Lombra]

Barbarogue for always on advantage and expertise in perception should make things easier, but playing it will be hard. Rogues get 10ft of blindsense at very high levels if it can help.

[Rogerdodger557]

Actually, I didn’t realize people were using Alert. I’m not actually clear whether that works or not, though.

The third bullet point is
◾Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being unseen by you.

[rbstr]

Yeah, with Alert the Samurai MC looks better.

And that feat certainly goes with with that "blind-person seeing better than anyone" trope.

[smcmike]

The third bullet point is
◾Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being unseen by you.


Yes, but does this cancel the advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of the blindness condition? I guess I would rule that it does, but it isn’t 100% clear.

[Rogerdodger557]

Yes, but does this cancel the advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of the blindness condition? I guess I would rule that it does, but it isn’t 100% clear.

Well, since you can't see, the enemies are unseen. So, yes? It's cheesy, but it works, technically, as RAW.

[smcmike]

Well, since you can't see, the enemies are unseen. So, yes? It's cheesy, but it works, technically, as RAW.

Actually, I think the opposite argument is cheesy - the enemies are unseen, but they still have advantage because you have the blinded condition, and one of the listed effects of the blinded condition is advantage for your enemies - a separate source of advantage. Now, thinking about it for a second, it seems pretty clear that this is not a separate source of advantage, and that the blinded condition gives advantage to your enemies BECAUSE they are unseen. That isn’t explicit in the rules, though.

[clash]

Actualy, thats an interesting point, but spells like fog cloud and darkness become much more useful with the alert feat. You attack enemies normally but they all attack you with disadvantage

[FabulousFizban]

alert plus samurai allows you to overcome blindness, at least for 3 combat rounds. i was thinking of taking monk levels so the character doesnt have to wear armor. so maybe something like fighter 3/monk 3. or maybe fighter3/monk2/rogue1. when you run out of fighting spirit you start flurry of blows - attacking 3 times a turn hoping one hits and add sneak attack to that hit. basically zatoichi starts swinging wildly hoping to connect. with martial arts you can always attack at least twice and hope one hits, adding sneak attack where possible.

EDIT: it seems like variant human with alert at first level is pretty much a must, with the most useful classes being samurai fighter, kensei monk, and barbarian. Assuming building up to level six (with whatever build you think best), what would the level progression be?