My party want`s to attack entire town with their own/ How can i deal with it as DM?

[HeatCliff]

So, my party(6 level guys) want to attack entire town with all guard, saying that 2 mages hold guards when their rogue kills enemie commander. Are there another options instead killing the whole party?

[Unoriginal]

So, my party(6 level guys) want to attack entire town with all guard, saying that 2 mages hold guards when their rogue kills enemie commander. Are there another options instead killing the whole party?

How big is the town? How big is the army?

They're likely going to die, or be captured then killed. Or they might escape. Two mages + a rogue might kill some guys, but they're going to be swarmed.

Why do they want to attack this place?

[Coffee_Dragon]

Just as the party engages the town garrison in some sort of battle, evil gnomes on pterodactyls descend in great numbers, forcing everyone to work together and teaching them a valuable lesson that surely they shall never forget.

[Sigreid]

Figure out the town without taking the party into account and let it go as it goes. Things like towns shouldn't be scaled to the characters in my opinion. They should just be what they are.

And it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could take out a town, provided they don't go for a straight fight.

[Unoriginal]

Figure out the town without taking the party into account and let it go as it goes. Things like towns shouldn't be scaled to the characters in my opinion. They should just be what they are.

And it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could take out a town, provided they don't go for a straight fight.

If they manage to poison the water supplies or something, maybe, but a town is big. They'd need more means than what is available to them.

If a town can't handle an handful of relatively powerful people, they won't be able to do anything against orc raiders, goblinoid hords, enemy nations, etc.

[ImproperJustice]

Like others have said. Stat out the guards, their captains, and support personnel based on the size and resources of the town.

Expect the guards to act in an intelligent fashion:

They call for backup with signalling devices or dancing light wands/spells fired into the sky.
Other guards don’t just charge in, but form a perimeter and cut off escape routes.

Mages and Clerics work to blind, disable, and impede the heroes until they can be surrounded and overwhelmed.

The end acenario probably looks like something from Game of Thrones Battle of the *you know.

I would imagine the local guilds have a vested interest in loaning some personel to bolster the guards and maybe there is another young adventuring party in town looking to takenon these crazed murder hobos.

[MaxWilson]

Figure out the town without taking the party into account and let it go as it goes. Things like towns shouldn't be scaled to the characters in my opinion. They should just be what they are.

And it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could take out a town, provided they don't go for a straight fight.

+1, this exactly.

Just play it straight.


If a town can't handle an handful of relatively powerful people, they won't be able to do anything against orc raiders, goblinoid hords, enemy nations, etc.

Who says they can stand up to goblinoid hordes and enemy nations? The game is usually more interesting if adventurers are needed for those kinds of things.

It's reasonable for a town of five thousand, in a dangerous D&D-type area, to have maybe a hundred full-time armed Guards (from the MM) plus a couple of mid-level NPCs (say, a Fighter 5 and a War Priest 5), which suffice to keep the peace and deal with nuisance threats like brigands. But they'll be distributed over their whole area of responsibility and not all mustered simultaneously--a group of PCs could conceivably take them on, if they had a reason to do so. And so could a goblinoid horde or an enemy nation or an evil Necromancer, which is why there's fun stuff for non-evil PCs to do in the game.

[RazorChain]

So, my party(6 level guys) want to attack entire town with all guard, saying that 2 mages hold guards when their rogue kills enemie commander. Are there another options instead killing the whole party?

You aren't going to kill the party, seems they are hellbent on committing a suicide by GM.

You will just provide a fair scenario based on their intentions. As others have mentioned, just stat out the guards and their auxiliaries in a rational manner and see how it goes. If the whole party dies then maybe they learn a valuable lesson.

[samcifer]

*The sound of a telephone ringing fills the air. Lt. LaForge notices the sound is coming from Lt. Cmdr. Data's stomach, opens his chest and finds an old fashioned phone inside. He picks it up, listens, then hands it to the DM in question.* "It's for you," he says.

The dm holds the phone to their ear to hear Sigmund Freud say: "You must kill them... You must kill them all!"

[Sigreid]

If they manage to poison the water supplies or something, maybe, but a town is big. They'd need more means than what is available to them.

If a town can't handle an handful of relatively powerful people, they won't be able to do anything against orc raiders, goblinoid hords, enemy nations, etc.

I was thinking more gorilla warfare. Picking off individuals, starting fires, destroying supplies and hiding. Over time they could absolutely destroy a town, if only by making it impossible to feel safe there.

[JackPhoenix]

Find out why they want to do this. Is there any in-character reason? Are they simply bored of the game? Then you can react accordingly. If they do have a good reason, let them try. Be fair and don't play favorites... warn them up front if they are over their head, if they die, they'll die.

If they are just bored, find out what would they rather do and don't waste everyone's time with futile scenarios.

[strangebloke]

I was thinking more gorilla warfare. Picking off individuals, starting fires, destroying supplies and hiding. Over time they could absolutely destroy a town, if only by making it impossible to feel safe there.

That's when a notice appears on the door of the local tavern. The party is screwed.

[denthor]

Town. 450 people?

10% guards. 45 protectors


Most 30 1st level fighters 10 archers 20 sword

10 corporal. 2nd level fighters 4 archers 6 sword

4 sergeants 3rd levels rangers 1 is a mage of some sort

1 commander 6th level most likely fighter/fallen paladin

Is there a church? Yes 3rd level cleric at least one 1st level cleric as an assistant.

Could a random party be chilling in the inn that is another four.

[strangebloke]

The real problem with these kind of shenanigans is only partially the issue of taking on a whole town.

The real problem is the heat.

Adventurers require cities to rest and restock in. Constantly having to move around furtively for fear of being recognized is a problem.

[JackPhoenix]

Town. 450 people?

10% guards. 45 protectors


Most 30 1st level fighters 10 archers 20 sword

10 corporal. 2nd level fighters 4 archers 6 sword

4 sergeants 3rd levels rangers 1 is a mage of some sort

1 commander 6th level most likely fighter/fallen paladin

Is there a church? Yes 3rd level cleric at least one 1st level cleric as an assistant.

Could a random party be chilling in the inn that is another four.

10% is too much. Militia, maybe, but such village would have only a handful of full-time watchmen. 1% sounds more likely, so about 5 men. And those propably won't be full-time guards anyway, but just some farmers on watch duty that day. At medieval tech level, it takes about 9 farmers to feed 10 people... and there are things lot more important than standing watch to use the 10% of the non-farmer population for.

And none of them would have character levels.

[Mortis_Elrod]

The real problem with these kind of shenanigans is only partially the issue of taking on a whole town.

The real problem is the heat.

Adventurers require cities to rest and restock in. Constantly having to move around furtively for fear of being recognized is a problem.

You're only recognized if someone sees your face.....and lives.


Killing means never having to say you're sorry.

[The Jack]

The plan sounds bad, casters have few spell slots, but if players want to sack a town, let them try. Don't conjure up a CR 9 guardian to beat them just because they want to do bad things.

As a player I really like to get methodical with things.
How I would sack a town as a member of an adventuring party.
-Scout the town
- find out if there's any very important defenders capable of stopping the party, or if there's any easy way to remove a large number of defenders without risk to yourself
-Murder said powerhouses before the mayhem can begin.
-recruit nearby monsters/criminals to join you,create undead, or start fires to distract defenders
- When the fighting starts, Try and get as much done as possible before people catch on to what's happening and get organized.
-Take hostages in case you need to bargain.
- Have something and somewhere to carry the loot.

If they treat it like a problem to be solved, it could be just as fun as a great dungeon crawl, if they're doing it for the lulz, coffee dragon had the right idea.

[HeatCliff]

thank`s everyone for advice. Can you help with another small question?

As i said before, party have the rogue. And i think that i don`t understand, what he can do in battle. Now he is doing hide-run in room-attack with two knifes-run from room-hide. Or hide-attack with bow-run out of room-hide(he has assasin archtype).

[GlenSmash!]

So, my party(6 level guys) want to attack entire town with all guard, saying that 2 mages hold guards when their rogue kills enemie commander. Are there another options instead killing the whole party?

My fist question is would you enjoy running this as the DM?

Because I wouldn't and I'd flat out tell my players that I don't spend my time preparing campaigns for them to become bandits.

If you are into this, which is totally fine lots of people play the game different ways, then I like the idea of a small guard and a larger militia.

In fact I'd have the main guard try to just survive, retreating and using the Dodge action etc, until one guard can rally the larger local militia, to fight the party, I might have a third wave of other citizens join upon seeing their loved ones killed, and others hide in their homes, and others flee to the hills.

[GlenSmash!]

thank`s everyone for advice. Can you help with another small question?

As i said before, party have the rogue. And i think that i don`t understand, what he can do in battle. Now he is doing hide-run in room-attack with two knifes-run from room-hide. Or hide-attack with bow-run out of room-hide(he has assasin archtype).

In combat he has an action and a bonus action. He can use the action to attack, and the bonus action to attack with his offhand, or use his action to attack, and using Cunning Action use his bonus action to Hide, dash, or disengage.

He could also Hide before combat without using an action or bonus action.

[Unoriginal]

Town. 450 people?

10% guards. 45 protectors


Most 30 1st level fighters 10 archers 20 sword

10 corporal. 2nd level fighters 4 archers 6 sword

4 sergeants 3rd levels rangers 1 is a mage of some sort

1 commander 6th level most likely fighter/fallen paladin

Is there a church? Yes 3rd level cleric at least one 1st level cleric as an assistant.

Could a random party be chilling in the inn that is another four.

NPCs are best stated as NCPs.

So a majority of Guards (CR 1/8), Scouts (CR 1/2), with 10% of the troops composed of Veterans (CR 3), including the officiers, with maybe a Noble, Commoners from the militia (with some proper weapons and some protections), and spellcasters as supports.

[Coec]

Unless he has magic items that otherwise contradicts this such as boots of haste, a 6th level rogue only has 1 move action, 1 action and one bonus action. So the scenario you provided means he can move up to 30', attack once with any action and if using a light weapon, attack again using his bonus action. He could then finish any remaining movement left by leaving. He can't hide because he already used his bonus action to attack a second time. He could also incur attacks of opportunity if an enemy was next to him as he left.

[GlenSmash!]

NPCs are best stated as NCPs.
Yup. This big time.


So a majority of Guards (CR 1/8), Scouts (CR 1/2), with 10% of the troops composed of Veterans (CR 3), including the officiers, with maybe a Noble, Commoners from the militia (with some proper weapons and some protections), and spellcasters as supports.

If looking for a higher CR commander I think Volo's has a Warlord statblock.

[Sigreid]

Unless he has magic items that otherwise contradicts this such as boots of haste, a 6th level rogue only has 1 move action, 1 action and one bonus action. So the scenario you provided means he can move up to 30', attack once with any action and if using a light weapon, attack again using his bonus action. He could then finish any remaining movement left by leaving. He can't hide because he already used his bonus action to attack a second time. He could also incur attacks of opportunity if an enemy was next to him as he left.

This isn't quite right. You don't have a move action anymore. You have a move allotment. you can divide up your movement however you want. So you can move 10' in, attack, and run 20' away. Unless he uses some kind of an action for a disengage he will provoke attacks of opportunity. Really, there's no way he can attack, disengage and hide all on his turn.

[MaxWilson]

The real problem with these kind of shenanigans is only partially the issue of taking on a whole town.

The real problem is the heat.

Adventurers require cities to rest and restock in. Constantly having to move around furtively for fear of being recognized is a problem.

Now I'm imagining an evil campaign which leans heavily on Seeming so that the evil PCs are never recognized. Maybe they even moonlight as "good" adventurers who get hired to stop the evil guys (themselves). Heh.

No sane DM would make it that easy for long though, or the players will get bored. Probably another evil group moves into town and starts picking off the same targets, and now the campaign is basically a gang war.

[Unoriginal]

If looking for a higher CR commander I think Volo's has a Warlord statblock.

Warlord's too strong just for a town, I'd say.

Gladiator would be more fitting.


Oh, OP, I forgot: the Knight NPC statblock is a good leader-type enemy, I'd say.

Of course, Bandits, Thugs, Tribal Warriors, Bandit Captains, Berserkers, and the like can also be used to represent combatants.

But of course, all kind of NPCs statblocks can be found in a town. Bards, Apprentice Wizards, Warlocks, Martial Artists, etc

[smcmike]

I was thinking more gorilla warfare. Picking off individuals, starting fires, destroying supplies and hiding. Over time they could absolutely destroy a town, if only by making it impossible to feel safe there.

Insert stupid ape joke here.


Seriously, though, stat the town, and give them realistic reactions as best you can. I’d be tempted to do the following:

Step 1: make the challenge achievable. Don’t go overboard with the guards, allow the players to capture the leaders with careful planning, have the underlings runaway.

Step 2: have the regular townspeople avoid the party, who I assume will be holed up in a castle or mansion or guardhouse. This step is very boring. I’d play it out for a while.

Step 3: Lord Local Bigshot arrives. The party is hanged by the neck until they are dead.

[Dudewithknives]

It makes a huge difference where this town is and what people live there.

Podunk village of all humans in the middle of the plains surrounded by a few trees, is completely different than a town of drow in the underdark.

A town of 450 would probably have at most 6 or so people on guard duty at a time, generic grunt guards. Probably a guard captain that might be a cr 3. The rest are just common fodder. Maybe a cr 1 healer/priest.

From what I an tell the pc party is only 3 people, 2 wizards and a rogue all level 6.

Not a very well rounded party, but it could be done, just not quickly and some will get away and they will all have bounties soon.

[Unoriginal]

Step 1: make the challenge achievable. Don’t go overboard with the guards, allow the players to capture the leaders with careful planning, have the underlings runaway.

Sorry to be rude, but hell ****ing no.

The challenge should be as achievable as it must be for a town of this size.

It shouldn't be *made* achievable.

The guards should be as many as logical, and the underlings should run away when reasonable too.

[blueb4sunrise1]

What are their reasons to attack the town?

[smcmike]

Sorry to be rude, but hell ****ing no.

The challenge should be as achievable as it must be for a town of this size.

It shouldn't be *made* achievable.

The guards should be as many as logical, and the underlings should run away when reasonable too.

I don’t have much use for this sort of hard-line pseudo-realism. The DM should strive to create a world that appears to make basic sense, but the ultimate goal of the game is always the interaction with the players, not the logic of the world.

If the town should be as achievable as it must be for a town of this size, I have to ask: of what size? If I know my players want to take over a town, and I think that attempt might be interesting, I can adjust the size of the town to make sense for my goals.

One other thing I hate: the assumption that all NPCs must always act in “reasonable” or “logical” manners. This assumption causes problems in the real world, too, but when applied to NPCs it can really flatten them out. NPCs can be cowards or fools or drunks.

That being said, my suggestion was at least partially in jest. These players sound like they are misbehaving, and I was offering a way to punish them. This is not good DMing, usually.

[Sigreid]

I don’t have much use for this sort of hard-line pseudo-realism. The DM should strive to create a world that appears to make basic sense, but the ultimate goal of the game is always the interaction with the players, not the logic of the world.

If the town should be as achievable as it must be for a town of this size, I have to ask: of what size? If I know my players want to take over a town, and I think that attempt might be interesting, I can adjust the size of the town to make sense for my goals.

One other thing I hate: the assumption that all NPCs must always act in “reasonable” or “logical” manners. This assumption causes problems in the real world, too, but when applied to NPCs it can really flatten them out. NPCs can be cowards or fools or drunks.

That being said, my suggestion was at least partially in jest. These players sound like they are misbehaving, and I was offering a way to punish them. This is not good DMing, usually.

I don't 100% disagree with your sentiment. I just look at it as more "So, you all want to take over or take out a town or village. That's ok by me, but it's up to you to figure out what town you think you can mount and master and if you choose poorly it may be all you can do to get out with your skin in tact."

The party described may be able to handle a remote village in a not too terribly dangerous part of the world but would likely be eaten alive by the village on the boarder of the troll swamp.

[Unoriginal]

I don’t have much use for this sort of hard-line pseudo-realism. The DM should strive to create a world that appears to make basic sense, but the ultimate goal of the game is always the interaction with the players, not the logic of the world.

If the town should be as achievable as it must be for a town of this size, I have to ask: of what size? If I know my players want to take over a town, and I think that attempt might be interesting, I can adjust the size of the town to make sense for my goals.

I'm against giving the PCs the capacity to do whatever they want. It's not pseudo-realism, it's internal consistency.

Same way that a particular crime syndicate established in the setting won't suddenly become easy to take over just because a PC wanted to do it.

Sure, 3 lvl 6 PCs who pick their target well can probably destroy a village or a small town without too much issue. But a town where's a functioning keep? It starts to look like they're biting more than they can chew.



One other thing I hate: the assumption that all NPCs must always act in “reasonable” or “logical” manners. This assumption causes problems in the real world, too, but when applied to NPCs it can really flatten them out. NPCs can be cowards or fools or drunks.

NPCs must act in a manner that is reasonable, in a narrative sense. A coward running away is reasonable, as it is something they would do. A fool doing something foolish is reasonable, because they're following their character traits. NPCs starting running away just to give the PCs more than a chance, when there is no real incentive to? Nope, it's not reasonable.


This is not good DMing, usually.

Some players want to charge the Storm Giant at lvl 1. Should the Giant pull their punches? Usually, no.

There might be reasons for them to keep the PC alive, but there's a limit.

In any case, I apologize again for having been rude.

[GlenSmash!]

Warlord's too strong just for a town, I'd say.

Gladiator would be more fitting.


Oh, OP, I forgot: the Knight NPC statblock is a good leader-type enemy, I'd say.

Of course, Bandits, Thugs, Tribal Warriors, Bandit Captains, Berserkers, and the like can also be used to represent combatants.

But of course, all kind of NPCs statblocks can be found in a town. Bards, Apprentice Wizards, Warlocks, Martial Artists, etc

I could see a retired adventurer type being a Warlord even in a small town, but yeah Knight works just as well.

And the spellcasters could be great for Apothecaries, Priests, Shamans, Wise Women, and whatever else you might expect in a typical D&D town. Good call on that.

[Lombra]

It's gonna be fun. Let them do whatever they want to, but plan in advance (as it should be) countermeasures that are likely gonna be aplied by the townsfolk and the guards, they most likely have plans for when bandit raiders come, strategies and such. Don't play the guards dumb, play them organized and prepared, it's their town, they know what should be done. The fact that the PCs are much more powerful than an average guard should be enough to make the things intreasting, if they end up getting killed, so be it, if they overthrow the town, that's cool too, try thinking about what it means narratively, and think about how to implement this in the game world, was the town important? If yes how much, and for which reasons? It's destruction will lead to the game world reacting to it at a speed and intensity which is proportional to the town's value.

[Unoriginal]

Also keep in mind there will probably be retaliation if the other nearby communities are made aware of this attack.

[MaxWilson]

It's gonna be fun. Let them do whatever they want to, but plan in advance (as it should be) countermeasures that are likely gonna be aplied by the townsfolk and the guards, they most likely have plans for when bandit raiders come, strategies and such. Don't play the guards dumb, play them organized and prepared, it's their town, they know what should be done. The fact that the PCs are much more powerful than an average guard should be enough to make the things intreasting, if they end up getting killed, so be it, if they overthrow the town, that's cool too, try thinking about what it means narratively, and think about how to implement this in the game world, was the town important? If yes how much, and for which reasons? It's destruction will lead to the game world reacting to it at a speed and intensity which is proportional to the town's value.

Also spend some time thinking through what their trial and punishment is likely to be, if they fail to take over the town. You can make the punishment summary execution if you like, but it could also be something much more entertaining like becoming lab rats for the mad wizard on the other side of the Great Rift, who's been experimenting with time travel and needs someone to test out his wormhole.

My point is: if you have some idea of what failure will look like, you won't feel quite as bad if and when the townsmen end up beating the PCs. And if the PCs win instead, as Lombra said, have some idea how that's going to play out too.

[opaopajr]

Find out why they want to do this. Is there any in-character reason? Are they simply bored of the game? Then you can react accordingly. If they do have a good reason, let them try. Be fair and don't play favorites... warn them up front if they are over their head, if they die, they'll die.

If they are just bored, find out what would they rather do and don't waste everyone's time with futile scenarios.

This is my favorite advice so far. It cuts to the chase, avoiding busy work by being direct with players.

There is a plethora of reasons for NPCs & towns to be stat out in vastly different ways, but none of these gets to the heart of why players are acting out in your setting. :smallsmile: