New DM in need of some homebrew help

[ChaoticHarmony]

Hey there people, I am a new DM with an idea for a homebrew campaign of DnD and would like some concept feedback and some mechanical help.

The concept is this; PCs wake in inside of a large stone circle in the middle of the field with no memories of who they are beyond their names. They can leave the circle at any point and go exploring, having various encounters, gathering info, etc etc. After 24 hours pass however, the sound of a clock ticking can be heard by everyone, the world seems to turn purple, then the PCs wake up back inside the circle in the same condition as when they started. When they go exploring again, they'll find out that everything is reset. Npcs they met won't recognize them, enemies they killed will be alive once more, events that the PCs didn't interfere in play out in the same way they did before. They will eventually figure out that they're in a time loop, find and defeat the cultist who seems to be causing it, have more time loopy madness happen, learn about their past and how they got in this predicament, than face the BBEM(is this what it's called) of the campaign.

Now the mechanical part I'm having issue with is the time loop itself. Should I have it a true time loop, where the PCs knowledge and experience they gain stays while everything else resets?(items, physical conditions, events) or should I have it a partial time loop, where they also keep and lose any items they obtain(like keeping a sword they buy but not the silver it took to buy it)

Anyway guys and gals, let me know what you think of the concept and any help you can give! Thank you 😁

[brian 333]

This could be interesting.

I recommend the characters remember what they did because the players certainly will.

I recommend that various objectives have clues which lead the characters to a concluding event. Since I obviously don't know your world or mission, I will invent an example.

Suppose Bad Guy creates the loop for a purpose, like it was a last ditch effort to stop the PCs from killing him. The artifact he was manipulating backfired and created the loop which contains him.

The clues which lead the PCs to that previous encounter should be there to lead them again. For example, the missing artifact that the priests sent the PCs to find shoulx still be missing, so the priests send them looking again once they encounter the priests. They might run through some false leads or dungeons for fun or virtually anything else as they collect clues, for example, Beerfest at the local inn which has a picture of a castle everyone knows is on the hill over yonder might lead the PCs to search an old ruin and discover Bad Guy's lair.

Or whatever you might imagine to be the case. But I recommend no more than three or four resets because the players will begin to feel frustration if they can't see progress.

[ChaoticHarmony]

This could be interesting.

I recommend the characters remember what they did because the players certainly will.

I recommend that various objectives have clues which lead the characters to a concluding event. Since I obviously don't know your world or mission, I will invent an example.

Suppose Bad Guy creates the loop for a purpose, like it was a last ditch effort to stop the PCs from killing him. The artifact he was manipulating backfired and created the loop which contains him.

The clues which lead the PCs to that previous encounter should be there to lead them again. For example, the missing artifact that the priests sent the PCs to find shoulx still be missing, so the priests send them looking again once they encounter the priests. They might run through some false leads or dungeons for fun or virtually anything else as they collect clues, for example, Beerfest at the local inn which has a picture of a castle everyone knows is on the hill over yonder might lead the PCs to search an old ruin and discover Bad Guy's lair.

Or whatever you might imagine to be the case. But I recommend no more than three or four resets because the players will begin to feel frustration if they can't see progress.

Exactly! 😃 the PCs would definitely remember in character as well as out, and there would definitely need to be clues that lead them to the first Boss, as well as the subsequent bosses until the BBEM is known( I could work it to be a shorter campaign, but I can personally see this leading to an epic boss fight against a corrupted God of Time)

The idea I have around the time loops is that every boss minion of the Time god is a focal point that shortens the time loop further, for the purpose of disrupting the Space-Time continuum. With every defeat, the time loop encompasses a larger amount of time( say after every week the loop resets after boss 1 is defeated, a month after boss 2 and so on) Furthermore, the party will be able to find more stone circles, which will act as the new starting point in a time loop for whatever PC passes through it. Finally my last idea that I think would really make this work is giving the PCs a bonus or advantage for anything they succeeded in in a previous loop(ex. Rouge 1 successfully picks the lock to the door of the local church in order to find a clue to the whereabouts of the cultist, but fails to find anything useful before the time loop resets, he goes back and since he has succeeded before, gets a +2 bonus to pick the lock this time, helping him pick it faster)

[Gorum]

Hey there people, I am a new DM with an idea for a homebrew campaign of DnD and would like some concept feedback and some mechanical help.

The concept is this; PCs wake in inside of a large stone circle in the middle of the field with no memories of who they are beyond their names. They can leave the circle at any point and go exploring, having various encounters, gathering info, etc etc. After 24 hours pass however, the sound of a clock ticking can be heard by everyone, the world seems to turn purple, then the PCs wake up back inside the circle in the same condition as when they started. When they go exploring again, they'll find out that everything is reset. Npcs they met won't recognize them, enemies they killed will be alive once more, events that the PCs didn't interfere in play out in the same way they did before. They will eventually figure out that they're in a time loop, find and defeat the cultist who seems to be causing it, have more time loopy madness happen, learn about their past and how they got in this predicament, than face the BBEM(is this what it's called) of the campaign.

Now the mechanical part I'm having issue with is the time loop itself. Should I have it a true time loop, where the PCs knowledge and experience they gain stays while everything else resets?(items, physical conditions, events) or should I have it a partial time loop, where they also keep and lose any items they obtain(like keeping a sword they buy but not the silver it took to buy it)

Anyway guys and gals, let me know what you think of the concept and any help you can give! Thank you 😁

Turns out a fairy boy tries to prevent the moon from crashing into the earth on the other side of the world.

[Blackjackg]

Turns out a fairy boy tries to prevent the moon from crashing into the earth on the other side of the world.

I'll admit, this was my first thought also.

This is definitely a workable concept. One major suggestion I have is to let players fastforward through encounters that they've already had before, if they're looking for the same outcomes. It'll become tedious as heck if they have to play through the same battle every time they loop.

A lot of the decisions you make about advancement, equipment, etc, will depend on how long you want the campaign to run. If it's only going to be a few sessions, you can feel free to have the PCs start back basically where they started every time. If you (and they!) plan it right, the knowledge gained from loop to loop should be reward enough. If the campaign is going to go longer (say, six sessions or more), you're going to want to allow them to gain levels and accumulate equipment. Maybe not everything, but certain special items with a connection to the broken magic can be carried from iteration to iteration.

[ChaoticHarmony]

This is definitely a workable concept. One major suggestion I have is to let players fastforward through encounters that they've already had before, if they're looking for the same outcomes. It'll become tedious as heck if they have to play through the same battle every time they loop.

A lot of the decisions you make about advancement, equipment, etc, will depend on how long you want the campaign to run. If it's only going to be a few sessions, you can feel free to have the PCs start back basically where they started every time. If you (and they!) plan it right, the knowledge gained from loop to loop should be reward enough. If the campaign is going to go longer (say, six sessions or more), you're going to want to allow them to gain levels and accumulate equipment. Maybe not everything, but certain special items with a connection to the broken magic can be carried from iteration to iteration.

The encounter fast forward is definitely a good idea, though maybe have it as an option after they clear it 3 or 4 times.

I would definitely have them keep any levels they gained along the way, mental memory translating to muscle memory so to speak.

An inventory outside the time loop is one of the things I was trying to decide on. On one hand, it will let them gain good equipment as time progresses, as is standard in most tabletops, but with the time loop mechanic, it will allow them to "break" the game by letting them increase their stock of rarer items that they could sell. For example, they kill a gang of kobolds that are roaming the nearby forest and take from their leader a +1 shortsword. If they go after the gang again, they could theoretically get that sword again, and then sell it, giving them lets say 5 gp just for the heck of it. They repeat this over and over, they have a theoretical fountain of gold.

If I make it so all items are out of the time loop, that adds an entire new lair of mechanical problems to have to work through.

[quinron]

The encounter fast-forward should also come with the PCs not getting XP after the first time they clear an encounter. From a fluff perspective, it makes sense: the "experience" a character gains reflects its ability to overcome challenges it has faced before, and by overcoming the same challenge over and over it becomes trivial. From a crunch perspective, it's important because otherwise the players could just grind monsters they've already killed in order to power-level.

Also worth thinking about: is this going to be "Grounhog Day"-style, where even if they die they just wake up the next morning? I'd recommend this, because otherwise you're going to have to deal with the weird ramifications of a new character that the party have never met somehow working its way into what should be a self-contained time loop.

[bookguy]

I would probably have equipment reset each day for flavor reasons. If they get to keep their equipment, it raises tricky technical questions for the whole time-travel system. Once they start exploring, they will know where they have to go to get specific items. They might even need to make choices about which ones they need that day, if they only have enough time to travel to certain places. As they level up, magic items that were once very difficult to acquire become easy pickings. For extra fun, have the party start with no equipment whatsoever (other than the clothes on their backs).

[ChaoticHarmony]

Also worth thinking about: is this going to be "Grounhog Day"-style, where even if they die they just wake up the next morning? I'd recommend this, because otherwise you're going to have to deal with the weird ramifications of a new character that the party have never met somehow working its way into what should be a self-contained time loop. O yes definitely, it would have to work like that, otherwise, it would just get frustrating for everyone(also, is Groundhog Day a movie? If it is I definitely need to check it out)


The encounter fast-forward should also come with the PCs not getting XP after the first time they clear an encounter. From a fluff perspective, it makes sense: the "experience" a character gains reflects its ability to overcome challenges it has faced before, and by overcoming the same challenge over and over it becomes trivial. From a crunch perspective, it's important because otherwise the players could just grind monsters they've already killed in order to power-level. I didn't think about the grind! That would have been an easy feature to break, thank you for pointing that out. At the same time though, from a fluff perspective, it makes sense to leave it, because prior knowledge can change the outcome of an event. So in this situation, you aren't going to be able to perfectly recreate the event without a lot of practice, so the outcome is technically different every time. Maybe meet in the middle and have exp gained halved every time an event is completed?


I would probably have equipment reset each day for flavor reasons. If they get to keep their equipment, it raises tricky technical questions for the whole time-travel system. Once they start exploring, they will know where they have to go to get specific items. They might even need to make choices about which ones they need that day, if they only have enough time to travel to certain places. As they level up, magic items that were once very difficult to acquire become easy pickings. For extra fun, have the party start with no equipment whatsoever (other than the clothes on their backs)

Thank you! This was the exact decision I was having trouble with. I like the stickiness of leaving them with nothing but the clothes on their backs, that would throw them for a loop. Maybe have their starting equipment hidden nearby, or a sack of gold they could split to buy equipment in town. I do feel that certain key things should stay with them past each loop.

Anyway, thank you guys for your help. I'd love to hear more suggestions. I'll work on a proper intro into this setting and post it(if I ever get the time away from the real world 😰)

[Thunderfist12]

The idea I have around the time loops is that every boss minion of the Time god is a focal point that shortens the time loop further, for the purpose of disrupting the Space-Time continuum. With every defeat, the time loop encompasses a larger amount of time( say after every week the loop resets after boss 1 is defeated, a month after boss 2 and so on) Furthermore, the party will be able to find more stone circles, which will act as the new starting point in a time loop for whatever PC passes through it. Finally my last idea that I think would really make this work is giving the PCs a bonus or advantage for anything they succeeded in in a previous loop

So I have a few thoughts, and these are all just suggestions, not so much a critique.

If you had one boss per level, you could award a level for every boss defeated. Also, jumping to a week and then a month for the first two bosses seems, extreme. Perhaps the reset is 1 day per level (OR Level + 2)? So a 4th level has 4 days per loop (OR 6), and a 9th level has 9 days per loop (OR 11).

Also, what if the start of each time loop depended on when the circle was activated? Let's say the players were on a loop that started at 00:01 Friday, and are level 3. It's 09:00 on a Saturday, the regular crowd shuffles in the players find and activate a circle. Instead of their loop being 00:01 Friday to 00:00 Monday, it would now be 09:00 Saturday to 08:59 Tuesday.

Possibly regarding items you can designate "permanents", "keyed items", and "temporaries".

A permanent is kept from one loop to the next as long as you have it. Examples would include belted (worn) weapons, donned armor, and coin. Uniques are also in this category.

A keyed item is returned to you if you lose it in this loop, but the item is keyed to a specific circle. Allows for a few "level-specific" items.

A temporary is removed from your inventory when the loop resets. Most potions, scrolls, and other one-use items may fall under this category. Almost any item in a backpack would count in this category. For a much harder game, consider including coins under temporaries.

On the subject of death: I think it would make the most sense that if a player is alive at the loop's start, they revive where they were at the time when the clock resets. This of course means if the loop starts when they were seconds away from being eaten alive by wolves, this will play out every single time. Effectively, this character would be dead.

EDIT: Noting the time, place & circumstance of death for each player will make the above easier. For example: 14:20 Tuesday 1 March, South Tower, wolves.

If you like NPC companions, perhaps the players can gain an item (by quest, chest, or boss drop maybe) such as a ring or circlet which allows the companion to sync with their timeline on the next reset.

I like this idea though. Kinda reminds me of the bonfires in Dark Souls but without the undead stuff.

[Jama7301]

Something about the item question jumped into my head, so I wanted to share and see if it's anything workable or usable for you.

Basic equipment that they start with they keep on a day to day basis, but at some point, they find a magic powder. The powder stays with them through the resets. The powder allows them to put it on something and have it stay on their person through the resetting. If they put it on money (up to a certain amount), they'll always have the cash to buy the lantern. Or they could put it on an amulet they find, or something they don't want to repeat the fight for or something like that. Give it out periodically, and they'll start to decide what's most important and what can save the most time.

This is prooooobably gameable as heck, so it may not work well for what you want though.

[MoleMage]

Something about the item question jumped into my head, so I wanted to share and see if it's anything workable or usable for you.

Basic equipment that they start with they keep on a day to day basis, but at some point, they find a magic powder. The powder stays with them through the resets. The powder allows them to put it on something and have it stay on their person through the resetting. If they put it on money (up to a certain amount), they'll always have the cash to buy the lantern. Or they could put it on an amulet they find, or something they don't want to repeat the fight for or something like that. Give it out periodically, and they'll start to decide what's most important and what can save the most time.

This is prooooobably gameable as heck, so it may not work well for what you want though.

This is cool, but I would suggest a thread, because of the common concept of "time as a textile" (the Fates cutting the threads of peoples' lives in Greek mythology). They tie it to or wrap it around an item and that item becomes part of the time loop.

[ChaoticHarmony]

@Thunderfist12:
1. The level by boss is a good idea, but I feel that it negates the use of experience points in a game that may not use exp cost for spells. It also further traps the players into following the main quest in order to progress their characters. The restricted amount of time they have in a given day already is gonna push them towards story progression, I think that may be enough for what I personally need.

2.the week to month was definitely too much for level 3, but I think day per boss defeated is too small, even at 'level'+2. How does doubling the loop with every boss defeat sound to you? (E.g boss 1 makes it 2 days, boss 2 makes it 4, boss 3 8, boss 4 16 etc.)

3. To have the loop to restart at that time is definitely a way to go with this concept, and would add difficulty at later levels as the PCs would be unable to go back to get things they could have. If you or anyone would like to take this concept and give it a try using this mechanic, I more than welcome it(and would honestly be ecstatic) but me personally, I think I'm gonna go with the same starting time for every stone circle, because it allows players to see the consequences of their actions and able to make different choices. Heck, they might HAVE to if they want/need access to specific/areas/allies.

4. On death, my plan is; souls take a specific amount of time to completely pass beyond the realm of mortals(3 days to be precise) and thus be outside of its time. If a character dies, and stays dead more than three days, the loop cannot revive them and instead completely destroys their body, making it so nothing short of a wish can bring a character back at that point. Your idea DOES inspire me to add something though. I really like the idea of Time Traps, points in the loop that can catch characters in a miniloop, effectively killing them unless unaffected characters can find a way to pull them out without killing them. Another idea your suggestion brought to mind is a Time Curse. A spell the stronger bosses could cast in conjunction with a physical trap. The affected creature can't escape it's fate in any time line. Any damage, injury, buff, or effect that they experience during the next hour after the spell is cast, will happen to them everyday, at the same hour, for that hour, until the curse is removed.

Overall really good suggestions that make a lot of sense, thank you so much.

@Jama7301 and MoleMage

GREAT idea. I love Greek myths, so using a Thread of Fate to keep items would be amazing! To keep it from being OP, maybe have it as either/both a permanent item that can only be obtainable once per boss(who, once defeated, are erased from the loop, thus it can't be farmed) or/and a permanent item that causes the total destruction of any item it is removed from(making characters have to REALLY think about what they need)

[jqavins]

Turns out a fairy boy tries to prevent the moon from crashing into the earth on the other side of the world.I'll admit, this was my first thought also.I first thought that the party should be accompanied by a groundhog.

(also, is Groundhog Day a movie? If it is I definitely need to check it out)Ahhgggg! I'm having a stroke!

Yes, Bill Murray and Andie MacDowell. And I command you to see it before running this campaign. If you don't, your punishment will be looking like a fool when you don't understand all the Groundhog Day jokes that your players make.


Finally my last idea that I think would really make this work is giving the PCs a bonus or advantage for anything they succeeded in in a previous loop(ex. Rouge 1 successfully picks the lock to the door of the local church in order to find a clue to the whereabouts of the cultist, but fails to find anything useful before the time loop resets, he goes back and since he has succeeded before, gets a +2 bonus to pick the lock this time, helping him pick it faster)There ought to be something in RAW about picking the same lock again, and similar repeated tasks. If not, well, make it up post it please.

Other thoughts, in no particular order. I favor completely resetting all equipment, along with everything else except character knowledge and experience points. But that's because it worked that way in Groundhog Day, which is what I immediately thought of.

I'd favor extending the loop by only one day per boss. If that's not enough for you, maybe increase it by two days per boss, i.e. 1 day, 3 days, 5, 7, etc. If the loop gets much longer than that one might reach the end and then the loop doesn't matter anymore. Growing exponentially will almost surely lead to this.

I wouldn't award experience for repeating a fight or other things. If you do, I urge you to cut it by half each time as you said, but also cut it off after just one or two repetitions for half then maybe one quarter experience.

[brian 333]

There ought to be something in RAW about picking the same lock again, and similar repeated tasks. If not, well, make it up post it please.

Competency bonus of +2 for a familiar task, +5 for a successfully repeated task, +10 for a routine task.

[Blackjackg]

I've already sort of given my two cents on this, but I thought I might chime in again on the subject of repeated combats. And full disclosure, I have an axe to grind here: I think D&D combat tends to get overly repetitive even when you aren't literally fighting the same battle over and over again.

If I were running this game, here's how I would handle it: For each combat encounter the PCs go through, I would keep track of the results and the resources they expended: how many hit points each player lost; how many spell slots they used; which monsters got away, etc. etc. When they come into that encounter again in a subsequent loop, I would give them a choice: fastforward the combat and get exactly the same outcomes (same loss of HP, same use of spell slots, etc.) and gain no XP; or fight it again to potentially get better outcomes. If they chose the latter, I'd probably award half XP-- never give full XP twice for the same encounter.

Of course, if the players come to the encounter at a different time and don't have enough resources to do it the same way (for example, the wizard used two third-level spells last time, but doesn't have any third-level slots left this time), then they'd lose the fastforward option that time. This way of doing it is a little more record-keeping for you the DM, but if you do it efficiently (maybe print up a few encounter sheets beforehand so you can easily note the expended resources) it will be a big time- and fun-saver in other ways.

As far as pulling equipment into the loop, I'm a big fan of the "players start each loop with the same starting equipment" approach, and it would only be specific, special equipment that they could acquire and bring with them from loop to loop. Frankly, money is the last thing I'd allow them to keep and I'm surprised by the number of people who think it would be best to let them acquire wealth in that way. Giving them a powder or thread to choose what they'd like to carry with them is a cool, flavorful choice, but potentially makes a lot more work for the DM: Now you have to figure out what events it sets in motion when the Orc Lord wakes up one loop to find that his favorite sword is missing. How does that butterfly-effect out to change the shape of events? Me, I would just have a few specific temporally-influenced items scattered through the game zone that, if they are in your possession when the loop resets, they stay in your possession. Definitely fewer potentially interesting player choices, but also less mindbending work for the DM.

Have you given any thought to how you'll handle spell prep for characters who need to prepare spells? Will they wake up each loop with the same spells prepared, or will they have to spend the first hour of each loop preparing? Either one seems less than ideal, but I can't think of a solution that would be both more fun and rules-legal. I mean, you could just ban prepared spellcasters, but that seems less than ideal too.

Overall, I still think this is a cool and workable concept for a game, but I'm concerned that it may be overly ambitious for a new DM. To really pull it off will require a lot of detailed planning and onerous housekeeping on your part, and that work increases exponentially the larger you make it in both length and scope. It's none of my business, but as an experienced DM who still gets overwhelmed by the planning and housekeeping necessary for a typical D&D game, I would strongly recommend keeping your scope and scale modest until you've really got a feel for how this looping game will work. Maybe try a sample mini-campaign that explores this concept for an arc of 4-6 sessions?

[jqavins]

I've already sort of given my two cents on this, but I thought I might chime in again on the subject of repeated combats. And full disclosure, I have an axe to grind here: I think D&D combat tends to get overly repetitive even when you aren't literally fighting the same battle over and over again.Before I wrote my comment on the subject, I had a vague shadow of an idea I couldn't pin down. Read on.

If I were running this game, here's how I would handle it: For each combat encounter the PCs go through, I would keep track of the results and the resources they expended: how many hit points each player lost; how many spell slots they used; which monsters got away, etc. etc. When they come into that encounter again in a subsequent loop, I would give them a choice: fastforward the combat and get exactly the same outcomes (same loss of HP, same use of spell slots, etc.) and gain no XP; or fight it again to potentially get better outcomes.And I thought "Aha, s/he's got it. S/he's about to say...

If they chose the latter, I'd probably award half XPNope, not where I though it was going. My new notion is that, if they fight it again and do better, they get more experience based on how much better they do. So if they take less damage, use up fewer resources, make shorter work of the enemy, etc. then they get some additional experience. Obviously, that would be hard to adjudicate, and you might not want to take it on. But I think it's a cool idea.


Overall, I still think this is a cool and workable concept for a game, but I'm concerned that it may be overly ambitious for a new DM. To really pull it off will require a lot of detailed planning and onerous housekeeping on your part, and that work increases exponentially the larger you make it in both length and scope. It's none of my business, but as an experienced DM who still gets overwhelmed by the planning and housekeeping necessary for a typical D&D game, I would strongly recommend keeping your scope and scale modest until you've really got a feel for how this looping game will work. Maybe try a sample mini-campaign that explores this concept for an arc of 4-6 sessions?Excellent point. Maybe a four to six session "regular" sort of campaign to gain some DM chops before taking this on.

[ngilop]

So.. a groundhog day campaign...neat


I would give them a 'partial' time loop where they get to keep the experiences they had and all that comes with it. That is the only way the thing can progress


If you do a full stop time loop then they just do the same thing every day because they have no idea what they did previously or any of that. they literally start from a black state every time and never get to figure out what it is.