Special Clothing rules?

[Neowulf]

I'm currently playing a 3.5 game with lax rules about what sources we get our items from, so I've been looking over my options. I'm playing a bard, so my defenses mostly lie within light armor & trickery

I've got the light armor part down because I'll be getting a reinforced mw chain shirt with optimal coverage (+5 AC, additional +2 against crit confirmations) & will look into getting Dastana from A&EG & a Chahar-aina from OA to up my AC by another +2

the only other thing that came to mind to up my defenses is to start getting special clothing to help up my defenses. One of the more obvious ones being an Armored Greatcoat from Iron Kingdoms. it wouldn't be too difficult to imagine in the setting, plus it would give me an additional +2 to AC that stacks with my light armor & DR 5/bludgeoning, but I've notice of the special materials available to make armor & clothing with. Two specifically come to mind, the variant of Glamerweave that grants a +2 to diplomacy from City of Towers & Shadowsilk from ToM. both would be incredibly helpful to my character & I thought that both could be added to the coat when I read their descriptions.

The coat itself (if fine quality) is described as having a silk lining & leather exterior, which I thought that because it's technically both clothing & armor I can have it made with Shadowsilk as the exterior material & Glamerweave as the interior, granting me two different bonuses on the coat. One of the problems that I've come across, however, is that I don't know if the armored greatcoat would necessarily be of the fine-quality that would require the lining or if I'd need to pay extra for that (I'd imagine it would increase the cost by 20 gp because it only doubles the normal greatcoat's 20 gp price to make it fine quality). On top of that, I'd need to find out how to quantify adding both on, because if I were to calculate it as the glamerweave then the shadowsilk, it would be 2x the base price of the coat + 500 + 1750, but if I were to do the opposite it would be the base price + 1750 x2 then I add the 500. On top of all of that, there's the issue of the weight. Strength wasn't a huge stat for my character, so I can't carry a lot on my person & each material says it decreases the weight of what they enhance by a percentage (1/2 & 1/4 respectively), so the closest I figure is that it weighs 1/8th in total.

which do you think the price would be & am I wrong on the weight? I know that the materials rules for armor is normally spelled out, but this is a special kind of armor, so would exceptions apply?

[Selene Sparks]

You're making a stacking error. Chahar-aina and Dastana both provide armor bonuses, and so, while they explicitly stack with a Chain Shirt, there is no provision for them to stack with each other, so they do not. I do not possess the Iron Kingdom book, but if it explicitly stacks with light armor, it fails to stack with Chahar-aina and dastana, because neither are light armor.

As for the material types, unless it states it is explicitly exempt from them, the special materials (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm) rules would still apply, so you would only get one material bonus regardless of the make of the coat. That said, as far as I can tell, nothing's stopping you from having your shadowsilk coat and then wear a mundane glammerweave shirt under it.

[DrMotives]

So if you want that +2 diplomacy, there's another non-magic way to get it. Dragon #358 has an article called masterforged which allows a number of bonuses to be added to masterwork weapons or armor at an added cost during item creation. One of them for armor allows a +2 diplomacy bonus, the ornate masterforge quality. Cost is 400 gp for light armor.

[Neowulf]

You're making a stacking error. Chahar-aina and Dastana both provide armor bonuses, and so, while they explicitly stack with a Chain Shirt, there is no provision for them to stack with each other, so they do not. I do not possess the Iron Kingdom book, but if it explicitly stacks with light armor, it fails to stack with Chahar-aina and dastana, because neither are light armor.

As for the material types, unless it states it is explicitly exempt from them, the special materials (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm) rules would still apply, so you would only get one material bonus regardless of the make of the coat. That said, as far as I can tell, nothing's stopping you from having your shadowsilk coat and then wear a mundane glammerweave shirt under it.

there's a quote from Dragon Mag #318 that says they stack with each other


Both dastanas and chahar-ainas provide special armor bonuses to AC that stack with other armor bonuses granted by certain forms of light armor. However, it is still the case that only one enhancement bonus can apply to a character’s armor bonus at any time. This, if a character wears +2 dastanas, a +1 chahar-aina, and +1 cloth armor, only the +2 bonus fom the dastanas increases his AC. A character can still gain the benefit of special abilities attached to multiple pieces of armor, however, so a character wearing +2 balance dastanas and a +2 displacement chahar-aina has a +2 enhancement bonus to AC and can use the balance and displacement abilities. (42)
it's only having them enchanted that doesn't stack for anything except for the individual abilities. logically, if they stack with one another, the coat should stack as well as it serves a similar function & says that it's made to go over light armor

that being said, I'll probably still try to get the DM to let me have the lining added as a different cost with the glamerweave material. I don't think he'd mind because it's technically not the armor itself granting me the bonus, but instead the lining. that being said, having an ornate version of the armor like DrMotives said could also work, but that'll ultimately be up to the DM & how far he's willing to let me get away with certain things

[Selene Sparks]

there's a quote from Dragon Mag #318 that says they stack with each other

it's only having them enchanted that doesn't stack for anything except for the individual abilities.It does not, in fact, say that. Let's look at the text again:

Both dastanas and chahar-ainas provide special armor bonuses that stack with other armor bonuses granted by certain forms of light armor.Here's where it's talking about mundane armor. In this, it says "certain," which is referring back to the previous list as it has no specific change, and it is specifically referring to light armor, of which neither dastana nor chahar-aina are. There is nothing in this sentence that allows them to stack with each other.

However, it is still the case that only one enhancement bonus can apply to the character's armor bonus at any given time.This is an important modification to the rules, and the first in the section. Specifically, without this nothing would stop a dastana with a +5 bonus from stacking with a +5 chain shirt because of how enhancement bonuses work.

It then proceeds to go into an example where, if you'll note, it says nothing about the armor bonus of chahar-aina or dastana, but of specific armor enhancements and the enhancement bonus. No text allows stacking of the armor bonus. Wearing both is useful to get cheaper armor enhancements, but the AC doesn't stack.

logically, if they stack with one another, the coat should stack as well as it serves a similar function & says that it's made to go over light armorYou're drawing a conclusion without support, and the same logic applies to wearing a chain hauberk under your breastplate.

that being said, I'll probably still try to get the DM to let me have the lining added as a different cost with the glamerweave material. I don't think he'd mind because it's technically not the armor itself granting me the bonus, but instead the lining. that being said, having an ornate version of the armor like DrMotives said could also work, but that'll ultimately be up to the DM & how far he's willing to let me get away with certain thingsIt's worth noting that the Dragon article in question also has a modification that flatly adds to the armor bonus as well. That said, you can't actually apply most of them to chahar-aina or dastana because neither are, in fact, light, medium, or heavy armor which most(although I don't think all, but I'd not swear to it) require.

[Neowulf]

It does not, in fact, say that. Let's look at the text again:
Here's where it's talking about mundane armor. In this, it says "certain," which is referring back to the previous list as it has no specific change, and it is specifically referring to light armor, of which neither dastana nor chahar-aina are. There is nothing in this sentence that allows them to stack with each other.
This is an important modification to the rules, and the first in the section. Specifically, without this nothing would stop a dastana with a +5 bonus from stacking with a +5 chain shirt because of how enhancement bonuses work.

It then proceeds to go into an example where, if you'll note, it says nothing about the armor bonus of chahar-aina or dastana, but of specific armor enhancements and the enhancement bonus. No text allows stacking of the armor bonus. Wearing both is useful to get cheaper armor enhancements, but the AC doesn't stack.
You're drawing a conclusion without support, and the same logic applies to wearing a chain hauberk under your breastplate.
It's worth noting that the Dragon article in question also has a modification that flatly adds to the armor bonus as well. That said, you can't actually apply most of them to chahar-aina or dastana because neither are, in fact, light, medium, or heavy armor which most(although I don't think all, but I'd not swear to it) require.

wouldn't they have mentioned that the normal armor-bonuses don't stack with each other instead of just jumping to saying that the enhancement bonuses don't stack? the way they're worded never gives an actual type to the AC bonus they grant your normal Armor bonus nor do they say they can't be worn & give bonuses at the same time

[Selene Sparks]

wouldn't they have mentioned that the normal armor-bonuses don't stack with each other instead of just jumping to saying that the enhancement bonuses don't stack?They don't need to because the rules already say so (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking). Chahar-aina and dastana are specific exceptions to the stacking rules because they explicitly state they are in relation to padded, leather, and chain shirt armor specifically.

the way they're worded never gives an actual type to the AC bonus they grant your normal Armor bonus nor do they say they can't be worn & give bonuses at the same timeThat's incorrect as well. From Oriental Adventures:

This "four mirror armor" can be worn over certain types of other armor to provide an additional armor bonus that stacks with both the foundation armor and any shield worn.
A character can wear chahar-aina effectively over padded, leather, or chain shirt armor.

These large metal bracers can be worn in addition to some other types of armor to provide an additional armor bonus that stacks with both the foundation armor and any shield worn. A character wan wear dastana with padded, leather, or chain shirt armor.

Now you likely can wear both chahar-aina and dastana at the same time(there is some ambiguity in the text, but an example uses it and it's not really a problem besides), but it definitely doesn't give you an extra armor bonus. They, again, don't need to say they both give bonuses at the same time, because they both, in fact, do, but you don't benefit because they do not stack.

[Bullet06320]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442820-Special-Materials-Index

maybe you can make use of this thread