Trading Familiar for Spectral Hand (homebrew possibility)

[NerdHut]

I was thinking back on a friend's old character. She used Spectral Hand so much that she nicknamed it as though it were her familiar (The name was Captain followed by a word I don't think I can say on the forums, but you could say this hand was very good at performing his job). She also had a familiar, but never used it.

Since I am mostly a DM these days, I get to homebrew. I was thinking about the possibility of offering an ACF for those who get familiars in which you simply trade off your familiar to gain at-will or X-times-per-day Spectral Hand.

Would this be over-/underpowered as a trade-off or right on the sweet spot? Given the variability of usage from player to player and game to game, I'm not really sure. So I'd like to hear some opinions to maybe refine the idea into something I feel confident offering at the table.

[Elkad]

Spectral Hand at (castingmod) times per day seems just fine. Weak-ish even. Throw in Mage Hand (it can move 5lbs, though it must become corporeal to do it) at the same time for a little more flavor.
It's seriously easy to kill - one Magic Missile usually (13 of 16 attempts) does the job.

I'd even be OK with "summon it at will (standard action), give it up to CL of your hitpoints each time you do" as a replacement for a familiar.
It doesn't give you another set of actions, so it'll never be as good as a Raven.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, Specral hand X times/day seems balanced; especially compared to something like Abrupt Jaunt.

I do like the idea of combining it with Mage hand!

[NerdHut]

Okay, I've got a first draft of the ability.


Any spellcasting class which gains a familiar may take this class feature instead. In exchange for losing the familiar, you may cast Spectral Hand as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your class level in the class with grants this ability. In addition to its normal functions, you can use a swift action to make the hand corporeal in order to move objects weighing up to 5lbs in the same way as the spell Mage Hand. It is a swift action to return the hand to normal. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 1 + Casting Modifier.



I'm not married to that specific number of times per day, but it was the number that jumped out at me. With that in mind, how does it sound in this form?

[Falontani]

Sounds good, mostly. At one of the bigger familiar levels improve it from mage hand to greater mage hand. Perhaps allow casting as an immediate action at beginning of combat.

[Elkad]

Okay, I've got a first draft of the ability.

I'd make the Mage Hand function require Concentration. Otherwise it's an extra action in combat. Clarify that casting it still takes hitpoints from the caster, as the spell. Require that Necromancy not be a forbidden school. Give it a name (Soul Hand?). Clarify you can only have one at a time, or people will try to use it as a source of combat healing.


Sounds good, mostly. At one of the bigger familiar levels improve it from mage hand to greater mage hand. Perhaps allow casting as an immediate action at beginning of combat.

I'd be leery of giving away medium range. Hide this behind a Feat, and pad it a bunch?

Improved Soul Hand. Prereq: Soul Hand class feature, ability to cast 3rd level Arcane spells. Your Spectral Hand ability is now medium range, can be cast as a swift action, has 1d4+CL/2 hitpoints, and can become corporeal while concentrating and move 25lbs, plus 5lbs for each 2 caster levels pounds as Greater Mage Hand. You can cast it at a lower level to reduce the hitpoint cost, to a minimum of 1d4 hitpoints. If you also have Spectral Hand available to cast, you can summon your Soul Hand an unlimited number of times, paying the hitpoint cost each time. Gain +1 CL on all Hand spells.

[Fizban]

Consider that familiars are already capable of delivering touch spells, albeit at great risk. In order to avoid that risk, one is normally required to spend 2nd level spell known+slots in order to create a fragile ranged hand that costs you hit points if destroyed. Consider also that a familiar costs or is traded for one feat, while multiple spell slots cost multiple feats.

[NerdHut]

After a bit more advice, and poking through source books for other ACFs that trade away familiars, I've made some adjustments. I started with the SRD text of Spectral Hand and tweaked from there. I'll need to clean up some sentence structure here and there. But for now, here's draft 2:


Soul Hand
A character may substitute this class feature in exchange for summoning a familiar upon taking their first level in a class which grants access to a familiar. Levels which count toward the level-dependent abilities of this class feature do not stack with those that determine abilities for familiars granted by another class.

Summoning a soul hand may be done a number of times per day equal to your casting modifier, as a swift action. A soul hand is a ghostly, glowing hand shaped from your life force which materializes and moves as you desire, allowing you to deliver low-level, touch range spells at a distance of 25 ft plus 5 ft for every two caster levels (The same as close range). On summoning the soul hand, you lose 1d4 hit points that return when the hand dissipates (even if it is dispelled), but not if the hand is destroyed (The hit points can be healed as normal). The sould hand lasts for a duration of 1 minute per caster level, and may be dismissed early. During this time, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand.

When delivering touch spells via the soul hand you grain a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack. The hand always strikes from your direction. The hand cannot flank targets like a creature can. After it delivers a spell, or if the hand goes beyond its range, or goes out of your sight, the hand returns to you and hovers.

The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons. It has improved evasion (half damage on a failed Reflex save and no damage on a successful save), your save bonuses, and an AC of at least 20. Your casting modifier applies to the hand’s AC as if it were the hand’s Dexterity modifier. The hand has the number of hit points you lost in summoning it plus half your caster level (rounded down).

Beginning at 7th level, while concentrating, you may make the soul hand corporeal. While corporeal, the hand my move items in the same fashion as the spell Mage hand.

Not yet included, but will be added as I figure out the best flow of information:

Necromancy must not be a forbidden school (Maybe. And mage hand is minor enough I think I'll leave off a restriction of Transmutation)
Can only have one active at a time
Some other small boost around level 15
A feat which improves the Soul Hand in a way I have yet to settle on.

[Crake]

Consider also that a familiar costs or is traded for one feat, while multiple spell slots cost multiple feats.

Trading the familiar also comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to trade the familiar for other things, which increases it's effective cost beyond just that of a feat, and instead treats it more as the opportunity cost of not getting whatever you deem to be the most powerful ability in the wizard's familiar slot, like abrupt jaunt or eidetic spellbook.

[Fizban]

And I wasn't going to respond further once it became clear the OP disagreed, because yeah- I really have nothing to say in regards to those. Some people write down ridiculously overpowered things that drive up the "value" of the abilities they "replace," doesn't mean they're good ACFs. But I shouldn't have to state that as a preface to every suggestion I make (especially when it's better sense than the people who wrote those elements), and generally whenever I do people get bent out of shape and have to fight me over it.

A fairer trade would be more like, 1/day +1/5 levels and the Hand ends when it delivers a spell. And that's with the normal casting time, no free lunch.

[Falontani]

And I wasn't going to respond further once it became clear the OP disagreed, because yeah- I really have nothing to say in regards to those. Some people write down ridiculously overpowered things that drive up the "value" of the abilities they "replace," doesn't mean they're good ACFs. But I shouldn't have to state that as a preface to every suggestion I make (especially when it's better sense than the people who wrote those elements), and generally whenever I do people get bent out of shape and have to fight me over it.

A fairer trade would be more like, 1/day +1/5 levels and the Hand ends when it delivers a spell. And that's with the normal casting time, no free lunch.

Normally I agree with you, however in this case I'll have to disagree. A familiar it's very powerful. There are so many things you can do with a familiar, delivering touch spells is usually the last thing I do with them. This trade seems powerful when you get it (level 1) but by the time your roughly level 11 this trade is far worse than just keeping the familiar.

[Cosi]

Some people write down ridiculously overpowered things that drive up the "value" of the abilities they "replace," doesn't mean they're good ACFs.

Holdup. If your position is that we should price new abilities based on the RAW value of equivalent abilities, that has to mean all abilities. Otherwise your actual position is just "Fizban is right and no one should argue with Fizban". If it's legitimate to point to Obtain Familiar as evidence that this is overpowered, it's legitimate to point to Abrupt Jaunt as evidence this is underpowered. If your argument is this is past some personal standard you have for what is balanced, say that. Don't pretend your position is that it's somehow overpowered by RAW if you ignore the parts of RAW its balanced against because you think they're overpowered.

[Fizban]

Normally I agree with you, however in this case I'll have to disagree. A familiar it's very powerful. There are so many things you can do with a familiar, delivering touch spells is usually the last thing I do with them. This trade seems powerful when you get it (level 1) but by the time your roughly level 11 this trade is far worse than just keeping the familiar.
Except everything you do with a familiar carries risk because you're doing it with a familiar, and most of the "things" you can do with a familiar are actually things you do with other spells being targeted on the familiar.

Even without the familiar comparison, uses of Spectral Hand are uses of a 2nd level spell. Which is not a 1st level ability. Multiple "free" 2nd level slots are significant until yeah, probably some time after 11th. A 1st level ACF "balanced" around the game at 11th+ level is not a well made ACF.

[Cosi]

How often would you prepare spectral hand over web? How often would you learn it instead of glitterdust? Not all 2nd level spells are created equal, and giving a buff that is at first glance overpowered to something that under-performs is necessary to produce something balanced. The amount of buff you need to give the Monk or the Fighter to make them level appropriate would be absurdly imbalancing to give a Druid or a Wizard, but that doesn't mean those buffs are bad. Context matters.

[NerdHut]

Fizban is right about the frequency, now that I really consider it. Though, because (in its current form, until level 7) it doesn't offer anything other than making specifically touch spells close range spells, I don't think it's particularly overpowered. Still, it might be worth changing it to be based on level rather than modifier.
The two versions of that which occur to me at the moment would be

1 per 3 Caster Levels (minimum 1)
1 plus 1 per 4 Caster Levels


And I'm aware of the fact that it's more useful at the lowest levels than the highest. I'm okay with that, since level 1-3 arcane casters tend to be relatively weak at those levels, and god-adjacent at the highest levels.