A note about "Cloister"

[yoshi927]

I realized something a bit earlier. Azure City, and thus most of its granaries and food storage, are in flames, which means there's nothing to eat. That rules out transportation to another plane or anything that would make getting in or out too difficult, because the army of hobgoblins would starve. But, anyway, they have a limited time that they can be "cloistered" if it's going to prevent all access.

Although, another plausible theory is that Xykon doesn't need to eat and he doesn't care what happens to anyone else. :smallbiggrin:

[TheAlmightyOne]

Although, another plausible theory is that Xykon doesn't need to eat and he doesn't care what happens to anyone else. :smallbiggrin:

Well he semi-quasi-sorta-ish cares about Redcloak so hes got that matter to think about.

[Jasdoif]

Well he semi-quasi-sorta-ish cares about Redcloak so hes got that matter to think about.Nah, Redcloak can take care of himself (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createFoodAndWater.htm).

[Chronos]

Nah, Redcloak can take care of himself.And at least 944 others, actually, if he doesn't worry about spending spell slots on anything else. More, if (as seems likely) his Wis is higher than 18 or his level is higher than 15. Plus whatever all his other clerics can produce: Any cleric capable of casting Animate Dead (and they had a lot of those) can also support at least 15 troops, and Tsukiko can support at least 63. And that's also supplemented by whatever nonmagical food they do have with them (in their own supplies, or salvaged from the city). And a lot of their soldiers don't need to eat, either, being undead. Those hobgoblins are set for a good long while.

[Firestar27]

Xykon would let the hobgoblins (except the clerics) die, and reanimate them as zombies.
But Redcloak wouldn't stand for that.

[chibibar]

Don't forget, this is a city. Unlike our modern city of our universe, these cities usually have farms and such to produce food within its walls.

Only the main castle is badly damage and surrounding building. I highly doubt the farm lands are THAT close to the castle ALSO it is next to a harbor. This means there are food from the sea. This is why I think the spell just make the city "invisible" and block any magical means into the city.

Similar to what Durokon had since Xykon cannot telelport in and kick his butt... he had to lure him out. Xykon needs time to regenerate after a major beating from Soon. Redcloak is not in his top form (but still have spells) so this is a good way to protect them from the pesky adventurers just popping in on them. they would have to pass the guards first to get in

[TheElfLord]

Don't forget, this is a city. Unlike our modern city of our universe, these cities usually have farms and such to produce food within its walls.

Only the main castle is badly damage and surrounding building. I highly doubt the farm lands are THAT close to the castle ALSO it is next to a harbor. This means there are food from the sea. This is why I think the spell just make the city "invisible" and block any magical means into the city.

Similar to what Durokon had since Xykon cannot telelport in and kick his butt... he had to lure him out. Xykon needs time to regenerate after a major beating from Soon. Redcloak is not in his top form (but still have spells) so this is a good way to protect them from the pesky adventurers just popping in on them. they would have to pass the guards first to get in

Um, no, cities do not have farms inside their walls. Farms take up acres and acres of space. Farms are outside the walls of a city in surrounding countryside.

[kpenguin]

Can't the hobgoblins fish or eat any remaining civilians or soldier bodies?

[Icewalker]

Also, who says the whole city is on fire? Only bits of it. (otherwise, they'd all be burning). It wouldn't be too far off to assume there is still some food left.

[chibibar]

Um, no, cities do not have farms inside their walls. Farms take up acres and acres of space. Farms are outside the walls of a city in surrounding countryside.

sure they do, have you see any of the campaign pre-made by WoTC? Some of the Larger cities DO have farms inside the walls. We see the walls (a big one) and it is possible to have farms inside the city. Of course now I have to go dig up some maps that have plans. I have play many campaign so it will take a lot of digging.

Also there is the sea.... they can fish for their food.

[factotum]

sure they do, have you see any of the campaign pre-made by WoTC? Some of the Larger cities DO have farms inside the walls.

And of course, if WOTC say it's so, it must be so. :smallwink:

In reality mediaeval cities would not have farms inside the walls--the extra expense involved in making the walls that much longer was generally pointless. In a situation where a siege would last long enough that the farms would make a difference you'd probably have all sorts of other problems anyway.

[yoshi927]

Actually, now that I check again, in the latest comic most of the buildings by the dock are safe. Those are probably warehouses where there'd be food.

[Moff Chumley]

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE PLOT!

So yah, I don't think the hogoblins are going anywhere.

[chibibar]

And of course, if WOTC say it's so, it must be so. :smallwink:

In reality mediaeval cities would not have farms inside the walls--the extra expense involved in making the walls that much longer was generally pointless. In a situation where a siege would last long enough that the farms would make a difference you'd probably have all sorts of other problems anyway.

that is true, but are we dealing with reality?? :) we are dealing with a fictional world with fictional magic in a fictional setting... and thus it is possible

[Threeshades]

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE PLOT!

So yah, I don't think the hogoblins are going anywhere.

unless a certain giant wants them to.

About the food problem:
1st: We dont know if the granaries are acutally on fire
2nd: we dont know if the hobgoblins didnt bring their own supplies (i guess they did, i mean they should have been prepared for the possible case of a prolonged siege)
3rd: They are goblinoids. And i think most of which arent very picky about their diet. There are lots of dead humans and hobbos all over the place. Possibly some animals too.
4th: There are some hobgoblins left back home who might have orders to bring supplies after a few days
5th: There are still quite a few clerics that should be able to prepare this awesome aforementioned spell
6th: There might be even more possibilities that i haven't thought of yet

[chibibar]

Here are some Start of Darkness Spoilers

The Hobgoblin and Goblin are made for adventure to kills. They are also got the WORST land possible to live on. I mean they are pretty bad if you read the book. Azure city is NOTHING compare where they came from so I assume that goblinkind can adapt their diet pretty quick (I wouldn't be surprise in Giant's world they eat dirt)

[Kreistor]

that is true, but are we dealing with reality?? :) we are dealing with a fictional world with fictional magic in a fictional setting... and thus it is possible

And since the Giant is in charge, he decides if there are farms inside the walls. He's had lots of opportunity, and has not yet drawn any; ergo, there is little chance of farms inside the walls. Even if there were, the food produced wouldn't even meet a small fraction of a percent of the needs of a city that has an armed contingent of 10000.

Since it's on the ocean, Azure City likely feeds much of its population from fishing, not farming. There must be farms for vegetables, fruits, and grains, but fish is probably a staple.

Redcloak moved on AC so fast, it is unlikely that the farmland surrounding the city is damaged. The hobgoblins have not had time to forage the area to nothingness, nor scare the peasantry away, so the farms are likely intact. If Rcloak is smart, and most say he is, the hobgoblins will simply displace the city's previous rulers and maintain farm production without interfering iwth the locals. take a hands off apporach with the peasantry, and his army will have food enough to survive for many seasons.

[wojonatior]

if readcloak really needed the food he could kill the hobgoblins for food and he would enjoy that concidering that he hates hobgoblins. also he could feed the whole army if the dm house-ruled it in.

[chibibar]

And since the Giant is in charge, he decides if there are farms inside the walls. He's had lots of opportunity, and has not yet drawn any; ergo, there is little chance of farms inside the walls. Even if there were, the food produced wouldn't even meet a small fraction of a percent of the needs of a city that has an armed contingent of 10000.

Since it's on the ocean, Azure City likely feeds much of its population from fishing, not farming. There must be farms for vegetables, fruits, and grains, but fish is probably a staple.

Redcloak moved on AC so fast, it is unlikely that the farmland surrounding the city is damaged. The hobgoblins have not had time to forage the area to nothingness, nor scare the peasantry away, so the farms are likely intact. If Rcloak is smart, and most say he is, the hobgoblins will simply displace the city's previous rulers and maintain farm production without interfering iwth the locals. take a hands off apporach with the peasantry, and his army will have food enough to survive for many seasons.

Which you are right.. the Giant is in charge... but also look at the "front line" of battle (from the land side) there isn't much space between the wall of the city and castle so that is their main defense, I'm sure there are farmland behind the wall (closer to the ocean). This is why I said there are farmlands behind the walls

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html

shows that there is nothing beyond the walls. but I do agree (and have stated) that food from the sea is a major option.

[explanetpluto]

Although, another plausible theory is that Xykon doesn't need to eat and he doesn't care what happens to anyone else. :smallbiggrin:

Theory? What you have there is a fact.

If the Hobgoblins starve, he gets more zombies, and thus the food shortage is resolved.

[Bill]

Historically towns DID sometimes have fields inside the walls. This was a key fact during one of the sieges of Paris when the crops matured early and helped the people stave off the besiegers.

[the_tick_rules]

so what is the spell cloister?

[mockingbyrd7]

so what is the spell cloister?

Homebrewed by Rich, most likely a spell that wipes Azure City off the map or conceals it or places it on another plane or prevents magical communications or something to that effect.

Long story short: It makes the city go poof.

[Valiena]

Historically towns DID sometimes have fields inside the walls. This was a key fact during one of the sieges of Paris when the crops matured early and helped the people stave off the besiegers.

This is true. Constantinople being a prime example. By the time it fell in 1453 to the Ottomans, it had shrunk considerably from its height in the Byztanine days. It had fields, and cities within cities, walled behind walls, in it. A good book to read is "The Fall of Constantinople 1453" by Steven Runciman. It is a fascinating read, and a well spring of ideas of a medieval RPG game.

[the_tick_rules]

Homebrewed by Rich, most likely a spell that wipes Azure City off the map or conceals it or places it on another plane or prevents magical communications or something to that effect.

Long story short: It makes the city go poof.

the entire city, that's square miles of terrain.

[Threeshades]

if readcloak really needed the food he could kill the hobgoblins for food and he would enjoy that concidering that he hates hobgoblins. also he could feed the whole army if the dm house-ruled it in.

You should read the strip a little further I think. Or again.

See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html)

[Roderick_BR]

I just assume that they brought in enough resources in case of a prolonged campaign.

[wojonatior]

sorry about the eating hoblins for redcloak im rereading and im only at 410

[mockingbyrd7]

This is true. Constantinople being a prime example. By the time it fell in 1453 to the Ottomans, it had shrunk considerably from its height in the Byztanine days. It had fields, and cities within cities, walled behind walls, in it. A good book to read is "The Fall of Constantinople 1453" by Steven Runciman. It is a fascinating read, and a well spring of ideas of a medieval RPG game.

Was that a Bardic Knowledge check, a Knowledge (History) check, or sheer geekery? :smallbiggrin:

[Valiena]

Was that a Bardic Knowledge check, a Knowledge (History) check, or sheer geekery? :smallbiggrin:

Hopefully Knowledge History, but I am a useless geek so its fair game. I did read that book for the pleasure of it, a year or so ago.

[falterfire]

given this is based off of D&D and I don't actually play:
Are there actually rules stating you have to eat? See also: Do NPC's require nourishment to continue living? I could see everyone "Forgetting" that the hobgoblins need to eat because the GM just doesn't care.

[Jasdoif]

Are there actually rules stating you have to eat?Yes. You can go without food for three days, after that you have to make an increasingly difficult Constitution check each day or take some nonlethal damage, which can't be removed until you've eaten. You're also fatigued once you've taken this nonlethal damage.

The rules don't appear to cover what happens when you've been rendered unconscious from accumulating nonlethal damage...but similar environmental conditions (well, exposure to serious heat or cold, at least) have you start taking lethal damage at that point.

[kpenguin]

given this is based off of D&D and I don't actually play:
Are there actually rules stating you have to eat? See also: Do NPC's require nourishment to continue living? I could see everyone "Forgetting" that the hobgoblins need to eat because the GM just doesn't care.

You get knocked unconscious if you don't eat, but by the RAW, you can't die from hunger.

[Chronos]

You get knocked unconscious if you don't eat, but by the RAW, you can't die from hunger.Only in the same sense that, by RAW, you can't die from having all of your internal organs transmuted into grape jelly. That is to say, the rules don't explicitly say how either would work, but neither do they say that you won't die, and it's up to the DM to decide.

[Krytha]

Can someone explain to me what cloister actually DOES?

[Kish]

Can someone explain to me what cloister actually DOES?
Rich could. Whether he will before September, now, that's another question.

[Lurk-Sothoth]

Homebrewed by Rich, most likely a spell that wipes Azure City off the map or conceals it or places it on another plane or prevents magical communications or something to that effect.

Long story short: It makes the city go poof.

Nuts. I was really looking forward to the resident Rules Lawyers taking this one apart. Some of their hair-splitting arguments can be quite enlightening! Of the several RPG-based web comics that I read, OOTS definitely seems to be the most "technical," adhering to D&D rules for both consistency and gag purposes, the large amounts of homebrew notwithstanding.

[chibibar]

of course... it could just be it is a 4th wall spell.... making OoTS goes "poof" for the time being until we return to our regular programming ;)

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Can someone explain to me what cloister actually DOES?

It's Rich's creation. But all I can say is that it prevents people from scrying or otherwise getting to the city. And there isn't any possible means of communication, magical or otherwise.

[David Argall]

Can someone explain to me what cloister actually DOES?

It makes it impossible for the two parts of the OOTS to contact each other. The details are derived from that.

But other than plot convenience, so far I have not found a good reason/excuse for it having been cast.

[the_tick_rules]

i guess we gottawait until for a few weeks until we actualy see what cloister does, somehow i find a spell big enough to block an entire city from magical entrance/exit/communication a bit out of even xykon's reach.

[Lavidor]

i guess we gottawait until for a few weeks until we actualy see what cloister does, somehow i find a spell big enough to block an entire city from magical entrance/exit/communication a bit out of even xykon's reach.

It's not :xykon:, it's the headband (which was probably Dorukans). The magic is coming out of the headband.

[GSFB]

Redcloak can cast "Heroes' Feast."

Redcloak (probably) has Craft Wondrous Item.

Redcloak could enchant a masterwork picnic table so that it casts "Heroes' Feast" whenever the proper number of people sit at it.

He could make several of them. They could all be located in some sort of large military barracks.

All his minions could be on a feeding schedule, and could line up and get their feasts in an orderly fashion.

There would never be a need for food for the army, as long as they are in town (or as long as they carry a bunch of picnic tables with them in the field).

Therefore, as long as there is enough food stores or readily available nearby farms for pillaging during the item creating period (and that could be sped up with a Wish or Miracle or both), long term food issues are moot.

And it doesn't even have to be as high level as "Heroes' Feast" (high level spells take more time/xp to make). I just used that as an ultimate example of what magic can do, as everyone feasting gets all the special powers from the food - just what an army needs! But if you don't care about the powers, simple "Create Food" works fine.