How much does a Gargantuan Adamantine Greatsword cost?

[RoboEmperor]

Asked in the FAQ but no one answered.

Adamantine weapons cost 3,000gp more than their normal counterpart. I understand this.
Weapons cost double for each size category increase. I understand this.

So a normal gargantuan greatsword will cost 50 * 2(large) * 2(Huge) * 2(Gargantuan) = 50*8 = 400gp. I understand this.

But what about Gargantuan Adamantine Greatsword? Is it... 3,000gp + 400gp = 3400gp? Or is it 3050gp * 8 = 24,400gp?

Seeing how a adamantine dagger costs the same as an adamantine greatsword, size doesn't seem to be a factor.

Same question with masterwork weapons. Does a masterwork greatsword cost 300+400=700gp? or 350*8 = 2800gp?

[gogogome]

According to the stronghold builder's guide, a gargantuan sized house made out of adamantine costs 30,000gp so 24,400gp sounds right.

[Nifft]

Item prices reflect at least two distinct factors:
- The cost of the materials; and
- The craftsmanship required.

For human-sized adamantine weapons, the craftsmanship factor dominates, and so you add +3k gp.

Looking at darkwood in comparison, there is no notable craftsmanship factor, so you just pay for the material: +10 gp per lb.


There is no per-lb. price for adamantine in the SRD, but I bet you could dig up such a price. You can also calculate the larger weapon's weight. I'd suggest that you calculate the item's price in two ways:
- First, the cost of a regular item scaled up, plus 3k gp.
- Second, the price to craft an adamantine item of X lb.

The final price is whichever of those two is greater.

[emeraldstreak]

RAW: 3400.

I've seen people try to rationalize it with adamantine doors/walls being cheap per pound compared to gear, the presumption being the price is mostly about craftsmanship. But then, when was RAW concerned about logic.

[Mordaedil]

All adamantine weapons are considered masterwork already.

But yes, it'd be 3050 * 8.

[emeraldstreak]

RAW explicitly says masterwork costs the same regardless of size. So the 300 mwk cost included in adamantine cost cannot be increased for size.

[Mordaedil]

You don't subtract the cost from masterwork cost for adamantine for any calculation.

[emeraldstreak]

You don't subtract the cost from masterwork cost for adamantine for any calculation.

Unless you're saying bigger weapons add the same (3,000), you'll have to provide a RAW citation.

[Mordaedil]

All rules for making weapons larger than Large is outside of RAW in the first place.

[RoboEmperor]

All rules for making weapons larger than Large is outside of RAW in the first place.

What do you mean? It says right there for each increase in size category double the cost of the weapon. It just failed to specify whether to double the cost of the weapon with the special materials or without.

[Blu]

This cost is the same for a Small or Medium version of the weapon. A Large version costs twice the listed price.

As stated above, RAW wise there is only rules for large weapons, but i don't think adding more sizes and doubling the cost is that much of an issue.

The bolded part shows wich price is multiplied stating that only the listed price is doubled, with the masterwork or special materials being an added modifier after the item price is calculated.
So your sword would cost:
50 gp x 8 = 400 gp + 3.000 gp = 3.400 gp

[Fouredged Sword]

I an pretty sure this invokes the doubling doubling being 3x rule.

[Blu]

I an pretty sure this invokes the doubling doubling being 3x rule.

The doubling rules only state that things like prices and such actually multiply normally. It mostly matters for combat, probably to impede over the top damage multiplication.

[RoboEmperor]

As stated above, RAW wise there is only rules for large weapons, but i don't think adding more sizes and doubling the cost is that much of an issue.

The bolded part shows wich price is multiplied stating that only the liste price is doubled, with the masterwork or special materials being an added modifier after the item price is calculeted.
So your sword would cost:
50 gp x 8 = 400 gp + 3.000 gp = 3.400 gp

Amazing. Your logic and reasoning is flawless. Thank you. 3,400gp it is!

[Seharvepernfan]

Don't most magic items automatically resize themselves for their wielders?

[Fouredged Sword]

Most. Not weapons or armors

[Thurbane]

So, as we can see from the answers above, and the times the same and similar questions have been asked previously, there is no consensus, and RAW can be read (at least) two ways.

The only truly useful answer is "ask your DM".

[RoboEmperor]

So, as we can see from the answers above, and the times the same and similar questions have been asked previously, there is no consensus, and RAW can be read (at least) two ways.

The only truly useful answer is "ask your DM".

I think Blu's logic makes it very clear there's only one way to interpret the RAW.

[zergling.exe]

I think Blu's logic makes it very clear there's only one way to interpret the RAW.

But if we go to the DMG page 219, the listed price for an adamantine breastplate is 10,200gp. So would that be multiplied by 8 if you are making it gargantuan? It is the listed price after all.

[RoboEmperor]

But if we go to the DMG page 219, the listed price for an adamantine breastplate is 10,200gp. So would that be multiplied by 8 if you are making it gargantuan? It is the listed price after all.

Armor doesn't say "listed price". It just says costs half for small characters and double for large characters.

Armor is clearly affected by size, but weapons... a small greatsword and a medium greatsword costs the same but a large greatsword costs double.

I'm not denying 3,400gp is just pure RAW, and as others said RAW defies logic more often than not.

I guess Thurbane is right, ask your DM.

[zergling.exe]

Armor doesn't say "listed price". It just says costs half for small characters and double for large characters.

Armor is clearly affected by size, but weapons... a small greatsword and a medium greatsword costs the same but a large greatsword costs double.

I'm not denying 3,400gp is just pure RAW, and as others said RAW defies logic more often than not.

I guess Thurbane is right, ask your DM.

Page 226, Adamantine battlaxe 3,010gp, Adamantine dagger 3,002gp. Listed price. x8 or no? Do only these weapons get the 3,000 multiplied by 8?

[RoboEmperor]

Page 226, Adamantine battlaxe 3,010gp, Adamantine dagger 3,002gp. Listed price. x8 or no? Do only these weapons get the 3,000 multiplied by 8?

I take that back. Thanks for looking up the stuff from the actual dmg instead of the srd. I think it's pretty clear now that the adamantine cost is added before the size increases.

[Blu]

But if we go to the DMG page 219, the listed price for an adamantine breastplate is 10,200gp. So would that be multiplied by 8 if you are making it gargantuan? It is the listed price after all.

Thing is, the adamantine part is considered a modifier, not base price.

But yeah, we have four things that are relevant in the RAW.

First as i posted above, in the RAW you can only have a weapon of up to large, wich is probably a mistake on the devs, but the RAW on this also considers listed price.

Second, for armor, there is a table with multipliers that don't actually state what price is multiplied, and there are two possibilities, listed price VS total price. Considering consistency, i would say that for armors it would just follow the same logic that for weapons, only multiplying listed price.

Third, we have bardings, wich also have a multiplier without specifying what price is multiplied, so it can also swing both ways. I'm still think the devs would just be consistent on this kind of stuff, so i would say the listed price is used.

Fourth, from the SRD and DMG:

Weapons for Unusually Sized Creatures
The cost of weapons for creatures who are neither Small nor Medium varies. The cost of the masterwork quality and any magical enhancement remains the same.


Armor for Unusual Creatures
The cost of armor for nonhumanoid
creatures, as well as for creatures who are neither Small
nor Medium, varies from the values given on Tables 7–3 and 7–4,
as described in the Armor for Unusual Creatures sidebar on page
123 of the Player’s Handbook. The cost of the masterwork quality
and any magical enhancement remains the same.

That fourth item is very important because it establishes the very important premise that the masterwork property of an item should NOT be changed based on size.

Now we discuss the two options:

A) We only multiply the listed price of an item, adding the other modifiers like masterwork or special materials after. Resulting in a formula that looks like this:

Item total price = [(Base price) x (Size multiplier)] + Modifiers

B) We multiply the special material costs, but... We have to subtract the masterwork property from the cost. Also, considering the RAW on weapons, this discussion is only valid for armors, shields and barding.

Item total price = {[(Base price) + (Special material - Masterwork)] x (Size multiplier)} + Masterwork

Option B sounds a little complicated compared to A and normally i would just opt for simplicity and consistency.
Another point is that i don't actually feel that is something bad since i normally see people having problems to deal with armors for mounts and such. Since there is already a X2 price on those bardings, the costs can ramp up really fast, wich normally makes barding way too much expensive for what it offers.

[Blu]

Page 226, Adamantine battlaxe 3,010gp, Adamantine dagger 3,002gp. Listed price. x8 or no? Do only these weapons get the 3,000 multiplied by 8?

Saying that just because the DMG has examples for adamantine weapons and considering those examples the "listed price" of the item, even tough the section that talks about listed price is with the weapons list is a quite a stretch.

[Crake]

Page 226, Adamantine battlaxe 3,010gp, Adamantine dagger 3,002gp. Listed price. x8 or no? Do only these weapons get the 3,000 multiplied by 8?

Those are unique items though. So technically you can have a "custom" gargantual adamantine dagger that costs 3016gp, or a "unique" gargantuan dagger that costs 24016gp.

[RoboEmperor]

Hah, since I suck at this debate, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut XD.

[Doctor Awkward]

The Arms and Equipment Guides states, on page 4, that "If you’re designing a weapon larger than the standard, its weight increases by 50% for each size category increase. Its cost increases at the same rate."

So a large greatsword made out of adamantine would be 3,050*2, or 6,100 gp, .then +50% for Huge, and another 50% for Gargantuan, for a total of 12,200 gp.

[RoboEmperor]

The Arms and Equipment Guides states, on page 4, that "If you’re designing a weapon larger than the standard, its weight increases by 50% for each size category increase. Its cost increases at the same rate."

So a large greatsword made out of adamantine would be 3,050*2, or 6,100 gp, .then +50% for Huge, and another 50% for Gargantuan, for a total of 12,200 gp.

Wouldn't that be 6100gp * 1.5 * 1.5 = 13,725gp

[Doctor Awkward]

Wouldn't that be 6100gp * 1.5 * 1.5 = 13,725gp

...Apparently yes
Not sure what I did to mess that up the first post. x.X

[Jowgen]

I agree with Tonymitsu. His approach has text support, it is straightforward, and it keeps the cost scaling of flat +X gp special materials equal to that of + X gp/lb materials. There will be odd fringe cases, but this is 3rd edition, odd fringe cases is what it's all about, bro.

[Blu]

The Arms and Equipment Guides states, on page 4, that "If you’re designing a weapon larger than the standard, its weight increases by 50% for each size category increase. Its cost increases at the same rate."

So a large greatsword made out of adamantine would be 3,050*2, or 6,100 gp, .then +50% for Huge, and another 50% for Gargantuan, for a total of 12,200 gp.

Except it is already established that the masterwork quality price should not be multiplied in either case. And we go back to the problem of what cost should be increased, should it be the listed price or the total price.

It would also sound weird to use one type of multiplication for armors(2x for each category) and another for weapons(x1.5 for each category).

If we use listed price we have: (50 gp x 2 x 1.5 x 1.5) + 3.000 = 3.225 gp

If we use total price we have: [(3050 gp - 300 gp) x 2 x 1.5 x 1.5] + 300 gp = 12.675 gp

[RoboEmperor]

This actually makes the worst-case-scenario ruling actually affordable for me since I can cut the price by 2/3 by crafting the thing myself with an army of unseen crafters. Thanks Tony you almost cut 50% of the price for me.

[Doctor Awkward]

Except it is already established that the masterwork quality price should not be multiplied in either case. And we go back to the problem of what cost should be increased, should it be the listed price or the total price.

It would also sound weird to use one type of multiplication for armors(2x for each category) and another for weapons(x1.5 for each category).

If we use listed price we have: (50 gp x 2 x 1.5 x 1.5) + 3.000 = 3.225 gp

If we use total price we have: (3050 gp - 300 gp) x 2 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 12.375 gp

The section in magic items you quoted pertains specifically to the masterwork quality. It has no bearing on the cost of special materials used to make a weapon.

Being considered masterwork for the purposes of the +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls and for being enchanted is strictly a function of the adamantine special material. Nothing needs to be factored out of anything. Your reasoning assumes that special materials do not change the base cost of the equipment, which is speculation not covered by the rules.

[Blu]

The section in magic items you quoted pertains specifically to the masterwork quality. It has no bearing on the cost of special materials used to make a weapon.

Being considered masterwork for the purposes of the +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls and for being enchanted is strictly a function of the adamantine special material. Nothing needs to be factored out of anything.


Adamantine
... Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

Mithral also as a section like this. Wich makes the point that this special material costs ALSO include the masterwork quality.


Your reasoning assumes that special materials do not change the base cost of the equipment, which is speculation not covered by the rules.

Yes, it does not specify if either it adds or not to the base cost, so it can go both ways, also i discussed both possible ways.


This cost is the same for a Small or Medium version of the weapon. A Large version costs twice the listed price.

Also this quote from the SRD equipment section also guarantees that at least for Large weapons the formula uses only the listed price of the item.

[Doctor Awkward]

After doing more research I located Dwarf Crusher on page 51 of the Magic Item Compendium, which says the following:


Cost to Create: 6,000 gp (plus 3,010 gp
for Large adamantine greatclub), 240 XP,
6 days.

The cost of a Medium sized greatclub (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponDescriptions) is 5 gp, which in the entry was doubled to 10 on account of being large.

So it would seem that, so far as the Magic Item Compendium is concerned, the Adamantine component is treated separately from the base cost of the weapon, just as the masterwork component is.

Accordingly, the cost of a Gargantuan Adamantine Greatsword would be 50 gp for a Medium, doubled in cost for being large (100), then multiplied by 1.5 twice for two size increases, for a base cost of 225, plus 3,000 gp for being adamantine, for a total cost of 3,225 gp.


...That or the designers just didn't think these things through.

[RoboEmperor]

After doing more research I located Dwarf Crusher on page 51 of the Magic Item Compendium, which says the following:



The cost of a Medium sized greatclub (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponDescriptions) is 5 gp, which in the entry was doubled to 10 on account of being large.

So it would seem that, so far as the Magic Item Compendium is concerned, the Adamantine component is treated separately from the base cost of the weapon, just as the masterwork component is.

Accordingly, the cost of a Gargantuan Adamantine Greatsword would be 50 gp for a Medium, doubled in cost for being large (100), then multiplied by 1.5 twice for two size increases, for a base cost of 225, plus 3,000 gp for being adamantine, for a total cost of 3,225 gp.


...That or the designers just didn't think these things through.

Holy ****! Tony! My Man! MY MAN! OFFICIAL RAW EXAMPLE SAYING ADAMANTINE IS NOT DOUBLED!
ZOMFG! THIS IS BEST POSSIBLE RULING FOR ME!

<3 <3 <3!

[Mordaedil]

After doing more research I located Dwarf Crusher on page 51 of the Magic Item Compendium, which says the following:



The cost of a Medium sized greatclub (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponDescriptions) is 5 gp, which in the entry was doubled to 10 on account of being large.

So it would seem that, so far as the Magic Item Compendium is concerned, the Adamantine component is treated separately from the base cost of the weapon, just as the masterwork component is.

Accordingly, the cost of a Gargantuan Adamantine Greatsword would be 50 gp for a Medium, doubled in cost for being large (100), then multiplied by 1.5 twice for two size increases, for a base cost of 225, plus 3,000 gp for being adamantine, for a total cost of 3,225 gp.


...That or the designers just didn't think these things through.

This, as far as I am concerned, pretty much settles it. Nice find, Tonymitsu.