Finesse polearm musings...

[Eric Diaz]

Here comes a very specific, strange question...

I like the idea of finesse polearms, visually. Well, at least the halberd and quarterstaff. (Spear too.). I'm thinking of allowing this through homebrew feat or fighting style.

One thing that worries me (as suggested in other thread) is a rogue with PAM getting lots of sneak attack reactions.

Now, one odd thing that occurred to me...

Would that be easy to do with a halberd?

Halberd: reach - This weapon adds 5 feet to your reach when you Attack with it, as well as when determining your reach for Opportunity Attacks with it.

PAM: other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter the reach you have with that weapon...

Sneak attack: You don't need advantage on the Attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it...

Swashbuckler: also needs to be within 5 feet...

So, barring some special circumstances, would it be possible to say that you couldn't sneak-opportunity with a halberd EVEN IF it was a finesse weapon?

(of course, I'd have to find another solution for the quarterstaff... open to suggestions :smallsmile: )

[hymer]

So, barring some special circumstances, would it be possible to say that you couldn't sneak-opportunity with a halberd EVEN IF it was a finesse weapon?
Possible, sure. And you could just create a list of weapons you can't Opportunity Attack-Sneak Attack with like that, and include the quarterstaff. Such a house rule wouldn't stop Sentinel Reaction attacks, though, and once you have PAM, Sentinel starts looking really good.
I'm not sure reach weapons get more Opportunity Attacks than non-reach weapons. The bigger the reach, the farther you have to move to provoke, and the bigger an area you can manoeuvre in safely. On the other hand, there are more potential targets of an OA within your reach on average, so that may count the other way, Which is the bigger factor I don't know.
One interesting thing with a reach sneak attack is how well it pairs with Spell Sniper + Booming Blade. Another is that you can reach across your party barb/fighter/paladin and attack, which can be very useful in cramped quarters and can keep you much safer than if you get within five feet to deliver your sneak attack. But then, you can do this with a ranged weapon too, and from an even greater distance.

[Sicarius Victis]

Alternate solution: Allow DEX-based polearms, but explicitly don't allow "Finesse" polearms. Thus, you get your DEX-based polearm without having to exclusively disallow Sneak Attack with it.


One interesting thing with a reach sneak attack is how well it pairs with Spell Sniper + Booming Blade. Another is that you can reach across your party barb/fighter/paladin and attack, which can be very useful in cramped quarters and can keep you much safer than if you get within five feet to deliver your sneak attack. But then, you can do this with a ranged weapon too, and from an even greater distance.

See also: whip. Do that already, without any houseruling.

[hymer]

See also: whip. Do that already, without any houseruling.
Indeed. Though the extra damage is nice, it's getting a functional PAM (and perhaps Sentinel) that makes it mouthwatering if you have Sneak Attack that works with it. That's a lot of feats, though.

[solidork]

I'm currently playing a Barbarian/Rogue(Scout) PAM using a custom magic item that grants a weapon the finesse property and takes away the heavy property. It's effective but not broken (I would be doing more damage if I was using GWM), and it's not as easy to get sneak attack with PAM reactions as you would think.

[Eric Diaz]

Thank you all, lots of good advice here!


Alternate solution: Allow DEX-based polearms, but explicitly don't allow "Finesse" polearms. Thus, you get your DEX-based polearm without having to exclusively disallow Sneak Attack with it.

Huh... that is ... really good! Sounds obvious, but I hadn't even considered it!

If I write my feat/FS without using the word "finesse" - maybe wording it like the monk's Martial Arts feature - I can avoid the issue completely!

"You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the Attack and Damage Rolls of your weapons".

Thank you!

[Kyrinthic]

See the thing is, pole arms used normally really dont make sense as a dex based finesse weapon, they just aren't normally used that way.

Now, if you look to eastern martial arts media, you see some of it, usually with quarterstaves and spears, which is why they are on the monk weapon list.

It makes a lot more sense to add more pole arms to monk weapons than to make them finesse weapons for everyone. A rogue is not dealing carefully placed damage with a 10 foot pike. This also gets around actually having the finesse property on the weapon, since monk weapons are finesse like, but not actually finesse weapons.

If you just tack finesse on a halberd you may as well put it on literally every weapon, as I am sure you could find 'finesse-like' usage in media somewhere.

[JPicasso]

See also: whip. Do that already, without any houseruling.

This. Re-skin a whip to be a blade attached to a very light or flexible pole. 1d4 reach finesse. Done and done.

Or, houserule and give it 1d6 and require 2-hands.

Really, rogues are more interested in the d6's of sneak than they are the base weapon damage anyway. The whip is great.