Barbarian/Psychic Warrior

[Arkhios]

In order to avoid breaking forum rules by thread necromancy (even one of my own counts, right?) I decided to make a new thread on this.

I've just reached 5th level, and I'm wondering what to do and in which order.

Only SRD is allowed because of reasons.

Before anyone suggests it, War Mind prestige class is off the table. No chance of meeting another to mentor me or finding the special book to learn from it. And frankly, after giving it much thought, Slayer doesn't really interest me, so I guess it's off the table as well.

So, I'm pretty certain that I'll stick to just Barbarian and Psychic Warrior, but what I'm not so sure about, is how many levels of each would be most optimal?

Currently at 4th level the character statistics are:
Half-orc
Barbarian (Boar Totem Variant*) 3/Psychic Warrior 1
Str 19, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 8
Feats: Diehard*, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Power Attack, Psionic Talent**
Special: Extra 2 rounds of rage (boar totem), 2 power points**, Rage 1/day
Power(s): Empty Mind

For my first level in PsyWar I took one rank in Autohypnosis because the DM was quite clear that I won't be able to use K: Psionics for anything in this campaign (Rise of the Runelords; 3.5 version).

Now, at 5th level, I suppose I'll take 2nd level in psychic warrior, and Cleave as my bonus feat. As for that one skill rank, should I take Concentration, or does a psychic warrior really need it?

Beyond 5th level, how would you go on about this character? Great Cleave is obviously my next feat, but for class levels, skills, feats after Great Cleave, and most importantly: powers... I could use some ideas.

Thanks!

[Rebel7284]

Psionic Weapon -> Deep Impact could be nice. Power attack is much nicer when you are targeting touch AC.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd only bother with one level of barbarian, and even then, only for the spirit lion totem barbarian and whirling frenzy ACFs. Everything else should be psychic warrior to get the most out of your manifesting, as barbarian is pretty much barbarren* after first and second levels in an SRD-only game.

PS, I just finished making my first batch of homemade yogurt. It's actually really good, and I'm rather proud of myself. :smallbiggrin:





*See what I did there?

[Nifft]

Have you considered a War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) instead of PsyWar?

Your DM might change the entry requirements if Kn(psionics) is not a thing in this campaign.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Have you considered a War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) instead of PsyWar?

Your DM might change the entry requirements if Kn(psionics) is not a thing in this campaign.Check the OP.

[Arkhios]

I'd only bother with one level of barbarian, and even then, only for the spirit lion totem barbarian and whirling frenzy ACFs. Everything else should be psychic warrior to get the most out of your manifesting, as barbarian is pretty much barbarren* after first and second levels in an SRD-only game.

PS, I just finished making my first batch of homemade yogurt. It's actually really good, and I'm rather proud of myself. :smallbiggrin:





*See what I did there?

I did. And I know why. :smallbiggrin: Grats on your yogurt btw!
However, the character progressed "organically" to PsyWar after 3 levels in barbarian. Sadly, only one variant per class is allowed, and I wanted heavy armor proficiency, Diehard, and that extra 2 rounds of rage from Boar.
I'm also the defacto tank in our group so I need the high AC.

Edit: on hindsight, I suppose I should've put 15 from con instead in Dex, use medium armor and dual wield with the Frenzy (yes, yes, I know there are penalties!), but oh well... too late for that now. On the other hand, DM kind of wanted me to play out a silly concept we spoke of before we started this campaign: A massive(ly) stupid half-orc farmer with a massive scythe, rage, and of course power attack, so I did it with a tongue-in-cheek attitude. But that could've been done with only one level in barbarian, indeed.



Have you considered a War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) instead of PsyWar?

Your DM might change the entry requirements if Kn(psionics) is not a thing in this campaign.Check the OP.
This. And no...

...he won't.

[ComaVision]

Hi again. Glad your angry, psychic farmer is still alive so far.

Now that you've gotten started in PsyWar, I wouldn't switch out at all because it'll delay your psionic progression more (and unfortunately Practiced Manifester isn't in your allowed sources).

I second Psionic Weapon > Deep Impact over Cleave > Great Cleave. There's also a great defensive combo you can do by getting Psicrystal Affinity and then the Share Pain and Vigor powers.

You can probably get away without Concentration on a PsyWar. I'd just keep plugging Autohypnosis for a while, as I assume someone else in your group is doing skill stuff.

For powers, asides from the combo I mentioned above, I really love Vigor on its own anyway. Psionic Lion's Charge will make up for being the wrong kind of Barbarian. Make sure you pick up a couple utility powers like Dimension Slide when you can.

[Arkhios]

Hi again. Glad your angry, psychic farmer is still alive so far.

Now that you've gotten started in PsyWar, I wouldn't switch out at all because it'll delay your psionic progression more (and unfortunately Practiced Manifester isn't in your allowed sources).

I second Psionic Weapon > Deep Impact over Cleave > Great Cleave. There's also a great defensive combo you can do by getting Psicrystal Affinity and then the Share Pain and Vigor powers.

You can probably get away without Concentration on a PsyWar. I'd just keep plugging Autohypnosis for a while, as I assume someone else in your group is doing skill stuff.

For powers, asides from the combo I mentioned above, I really love Vigor on its own anyway. Psionic Lion's Charge will make up for being the wrong kind of Barbarian. Make sure you pick up a couple utility powers like Dimension Slide when you can.

Thanks! Simple farmer who gets so angry that his anger and single-minded focus manifests outward, has been unstoppable so far!

I tend to agree on that notion. Psychic Warrior gets better every level, purely because augmentable powers and of course those bonus feats won't hurt, even if I didn't count as fighter for taking those (arguably lame) fighter-only feats. I'll likely continue as Psychic Warrior from now on. But I still might take one more level in Barbarian at some point, so that I'll have Rage 2/day.

On those feats, I see why they would be great, but considering that I've been literally scything my way through foes, one at a time, I kinda want that Cleave asap. After that, I suppose I can wait a while before I take Great Cleave, and instead take Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact first.

On Autohypnosis vs. Concentration, I've been reading into the psionic rules, and from what I've gathered, gaining Psionic Focus requires Concentration checks? Or did I misunderstand something?

Since my Wisdom is still only 13, I've been leaning towards powers that care little (if at all) of saving throws, and Vigor has been on top of my list. I'll probably take it now at 2nd PsyWar level.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since my Wisdom is still only 13, I've been leaning towards powers that care little (if at all) of saving throws, and Vigor has been on top of my list. I'll probably take it now at 2nd PsyWar level.Spend a feat on Psicrystal Affinity and some gp on a manifestation of psychic chirurgery to gain access to share pain when you can. That will halve the amount of hp damage you take on every hit, and if you share vigor with your psicrystal, it will effectively double the amount of temp hp you gain from it. Don't forget to reduce all incoming damage to your psicrystal by 8 because of its hardness.

[Arkhios]

Spend a feat on Psicrystal Affinity and some gp on a manifestation of psychic chirurgery to gain access to share pain when you can. That will halve the amount of hp damage you take on every hit, and if you share vigor with your psicrystal, it will effectively double the amount of temp hp you gain from it. Don't forget to reduce all incoming damage to your psicrystal by 8 because of its hardness.

While I might take psicrystal affinity (if I do, likely for bonus to will saves), I doubt there are any presence of psionicists worth mentioning other than my character in this part of the world so that I'd be able to purchase Psychic Chirurgery from someone else. The campaign isn't particularly focused around psionic stuff. My character is a bit of an oddity in that regard.

[Zaq]

Power selection, you say? You’re starting behind the curve from your Barb levels, but you knew that already. I would put your primary concerns as mobility and senses. An enemy you can’t reach or can’t see is an enemy who doesn’t have to care about you.

If you’re SRD-only, many of the good powers for mobility are 2nd level rather than 1st (as an off-the-cuff list, there’s Psionic Lion’s Charge, Hustle, Body Equilibrium, and Wall Walker), but at least Synesthete is 1st level, which can be fun. Of course, that also means you can take one or two powers related to raw attacking before you dive into the utility stuff. Expansion is a classic for a reason, and I’m fond of Claws of the Beast, though it’s probably less fun with a low ML (and you can’t double your PA returns with it, which is annoying). If you don’t have a magic weapon, Metaphysical Weapon isn’t the worst possible choice, though it’ll be much better once you can properly augment it.

Don’t forget that you qualify for psionic feats now. If you want to primarily stay psionically focused, Up The Walls is amusing, as is Speed of Thought. If you want to expend your psionic focus for one big boom, combining Deep Impact with a higher number than you usually choose for Power Attack can be fun once per encounter. Alternatively, if you take Expansion and want to take advantage of the extra reach, good old Combat Reflexes might come up more than you think. Expansion does mess with your DEX, though, so you might look into a DEX-boosting item if you have the funds. Possibly even take EWP for a spiked chain. It’s the gold standard for a reason.

Even if you don’t take any feats that use psionic focus, remember that you can expend your focus to “take 15” on a Concentration check, which might come up. (I do think that you should try to get a decent Concentration score if you can.)

[Psyren]

May I ask why Barbarian? You can't use psionics while raging (due to the need to concentrate) and Psychic Warrior gives you multiple ways to pounce, so Barbarian's main advantages over other martial classes are either unnecessary or outright anti-synergistic. If you weren't opposed to Slayer I would've recommended Ranger instead, but I think a Fighter or Monk dip might be your best bet here.

[Arkhios]

May I ask why Barbarian? You can't use psionics while raging (due to the need to concentrate) and Psychic Warrior gives you multiple ways to pounce, so Barbarian's main advantages over other martial classes are either unnecessary or outright anti-synergistic. If you weren't opposed to Slayer I would've recommended Ranger instead, but I think a Fighter or Monk dip might be your best bet here.

See, this isn't about a new character here. I started as a Barbarian, because it was part of a joke me and my DM had before we even began the campaign. Now, that joke has run dry-ish, and I wanted to see what else I could make of the character. Plain Barbarian seemed boring, plus Rage lasts only ~1 minute and is usable only once per day (for now). There are many more than just one combat in a session, and sometimes the situation simply demands rage, while sometimes it does not. I prefer to have more tools than just "I hit it. Hard!!"

[Zombulian]

Thanks! Simple farmer who gets so angry that his anger and single-minded focus manifests outward, has been unstoppable so far!

I tend to agree on that notion. Psychic Warrior gets better every level, purely because augmentable powers and of course those bonus feats won't hurt, even if I didn't count as fighter for taking those (arguably lame) fighter-only feats. I'll likely continue as Psychic Warrior from now on. But I still might take one more level in Barbarian at some point, so that I'll have Rage 2/day.

On those feats, I see why they would be great, but considering that I've been literally scything my way through foes, one at a time, I kinda want that Cleave asap. After that, I suppose I can wait a while before I take Great Cleave, and instead take Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact first.

On Autohypnosis vs. Concentration, I've been reading into the psionic rules, and from what I've gathered, gaining Psionic Focus requires Concentration checks? Or did I misunderstand something?

Since my Wisdom is still only 13, I've been leaning towards powers that care little (if at all) of saving throws, and Vigor has been on top of my list. I'll probably take it now at 2nd PsyWar level.

Ehh if you really really think Cleave is necessary, go for it, but Great Cleave is a trap feat. Leave it be.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As there's not much difference fluff-wise between a barbarian 19/psywar 1 and a barbarian 1/psywar 19, while the latter is far more fun and effective, why don't you ask your DM if you can rebuild to be the latter, instead? Same character, just with more psionic might than he'd otherwise have.

Also, make sure one of your first powers is expansion. Insanely useful for a martial type, as it's does the same as every single Improved X feat in the PHB except for Improved Trip, but better. And if you have a reach weapon, you gain a 20' reach instead of 5' for a greatsword. That one power is better for your role as a beatstick than anything a non-goliath barbarian gains in its entire pre-epic career.

[Arkhios]

As there's not much difference fluff-wise between a barbarian 19/psywar 1 and a barbarian 1/psywar 19, while the latter is far more fun and effective, why don't you ask your DM if you can rebuild to be the latter, instead? Same character, just with more psionic might than he'd otherwise have.

Also, make sure one of your first powers is expansion. Insanely useful for a martial type, as it's does the same as every single Improved X feat in the PHB except for Improved Trip, but better. And if you have a reach weapon, you gain a 20' reach instead of 5' for a greatsword. That one power is better for your role as a beatstick than anything a non-goliath barbarian gains in its entire pre-epic career.

I know my DM better than well. He's a stickler for RAW (regardless of system or edition; and I'm fine with that), and retraining - while certainly a thing in 3.5 PHB2 (iirc) - would've had a price; since it's from a sourcebook other than those included in SRD, no chance. Rebuilding for free, even less so.
Besides, I really am fine with these levels I already have. As I said, I wanted Diehard and those 2 extra rounds of rage from Boar Totem, which came at 2nd and 3rd levels, respectively. Losing Fast Movement at 1st level was also a conscious choice. Maybe it's not optimal, but here's the thing, I don't do optimal if I think something suboptimal is interesting enough. Same goes with Barbarian + Psychic Warrior. I'm aware that Rage doesn't work with psionics. I'm sorry if I'm beginning to sound pissed; I admit I'm getting a wee bit frustrated here.

Nowhere is it said that every damn resource at my disposal must be used in every single round/encounter/day, is it? I mean, come on. I don't have to use Rage when I use Psionics. Surely I can have wider selection of tricks instead of being a one-trick-pony.

About Expansion, I have to disagree about it being one of my first powers to take, for two reasons. One, it takes a standard action (by default) to manifest. Two, it lasts 1 round/level, making it really stupid to spend PP for, at first few levels. Honestly, I think it can wait until I can augment it to last 10 minutes per level, before I take it. And at my 3rd PsyWar level it can be done. Not too long wait, imho.

My weapon of choice is a Scythe, and likely will be 'til the end of the campaign/as long as the character lives. It's part of that joke I mentioned before. Also, it is a +1 weapon, so it's something.

[Zombulian]

I mean, it's probably worth saying that since rage is a free action, there's nothing stopping you from buffing yourself *before* you rage. Bummer that Extra Rage isn't an SRD feat, so since you've already dropped 3 levels into Barb I don't see an issue with going for 1 more for that extra use. Otherwise I'll echo that Psywar with Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact are probably the best next moves. Picking up Psicrystal Affinity both for the Vigor + Share Pain combo and picking up Psionic Meditation + Psicrystal Containment for Psionic Focus uses is a good idea too.
Now you say that Great Cleave is obviously your next feat. Why? Does your DM really flood you with that many one-hittable mooks that stand within your 5ft reach that it's worth picking up that garbage fire of a feat? Or do you just want it because you have the prereqs?

[Arkhios]

I mean, it's probably worth saying that since rage is a free action, there's nothing stopping you from buffing yourself *before* you rage.
Now, you're slightly underestimating my experience. I know that I could buff myself before raging. But that wasn't exactly my point. My point was, that as a resource, rage is limited. Once I have used rage, it's not available for the rest of the day. If and when there are more encounters during that same day, I'm not able to use rage on all of those encounters. Therefore, I want to be able to do something more than just "hit 'em hard" every once in a while.


Otherwise I'll echo that Psywar with Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact are probably the best next moves. Picking up Psicrystal Affinity both for the Vigor + Share Pain combo and picking up Psionic Meditation + Psicrystal Containment for Psionic Focus uses is a good idea too.
Noted. I'll take a look at them.


Now you say that Great Cleave is obviously your next feat. Why? Does your DM really flood you with that many one-hittable mooks that stand within your 5ft reach that it's worth picking up that garbage fire of a feat? Or do you just want it because you have the prereqs?
Well, maybe not "obviously", since I do understand why Great Cleave might be considered as a trap option.

However, I've played this campaign before*, and I know from this past experience that the combat happens most of the time in cramped circumstances, where the front-liner (me) forms a bottle-neck for mobs. So, yes, they tend to flood around me. It's not that my DM deliberately chooses to assault me with one-hittable mooks. If there are one-hittable mooks, they're pre-written in the adventure, and so far they've fallen easily as I'm dealing ridiculous amounts of damage. Like I said, my DM is stickler for RAW and it's unlikely that he would change what is written in there, just because we might be "too strong" for the challenge.

*I joined for another run because the DM couldn't find a 4th player for this; To be fair, the first time I played Rise of the Runelords, it was with The Anniversary Edition which is an upgraded version for Pathfinder rules, so I was also curious to see how much different it would be.

For the record, our whole group is:
Cleric with a Glaive, so he's at best a second-rank melee.
Ranger with a Longbow, and a wolf companion, which is rather squishy and currently doesn't know more tricks than Defend, so it's a tad useless for the front-line.
Evoker, who (obviously) prefers staying behind.
My character, who is the meat-shield/heavy hitter.

Looking at the party composition, it's quite clear that I'm in the front-line, mostly alone. Cleric is right behind me, but definitely not the first one taking hits.