good feats for a warrior

[King of Nowhere]

hi there, I just wanted to know a few good sources of warrior-oriented feats. i don't like ToB, so stances and manuevers and such are off the table. thanks

EDIT: since we're here, there was a prestige class in neverwinter nights 2 that increased your crit range and multiplier, albeit it did little else. i couldn't find it anywhere else, anyone can point me to it?

[Chester]

hi there, I just wanted to know a few good sources of warrior-oriented feats. i don't like ToB, so stances and manuevers and such are off the table. thanks

People might crucify me for saying this, but if you're not optimizing for most amazing thing ever, I like weapon focus, weapon specialization, etc.

[King of Nowhere]

People might crucify me for saying this, but if you're not optimizing for most amazing thing ever, I like weapon focus, weapon specialization, etc.
yeah, ok, but after those? A high level figther get plenty of feats, which are only good if you have good feats to spend them on.

[Karl Aegis]

Some combination of Deformity(Tall), Deformity(Tongue), Aberrant Reach, Starspawn and Improved Dragon Wings.

[Goaty14]

EDIT: since we're here, there was a prestige class in neverwinter nights 2 that increased your crit range and multiplier, albeit it did little else. i couldn't find it anywhere else, anyone can point me to it?

NWN is based off of 4e, look elsewhere. On the other hand, there's a BoVD PrC that triples or something your crit range. A must-have for critfishers.

[Remuko]

NWN is based off of 4e, look elsewhere. On the other hand, there's a BoVD PrC that triples or something your crit range. A must-have for critfishers.

youre thinking of the MMO Neverwinter. NWN was a pc game and NWN2 was its sequel. They are based on 3.0 and 3.5 specifically.




since we're here, there was a prestige class in neverwinter nights 2 that increased your crit range and multiplier, albeit it did little else. i couldn't find it anywhere else, anyone can point me to it?

The class was called Weapon Master IIRC it was a 3.0 class. The closest thing to a 3.5 version of it is Kensei. If you can find a copy of the book or pdf from the 3.0 book it was in (Sword and Fist Page 38) you could still find its stats. Its not exactly like it was in the pc game because stuff was changed to suit the gameplay changes of that game over the real tabletop version but its mostly the same.

[darkdragoon]

Neverwinter Nights 2 is not Neverwinter. And most likely they meant Weapon Master.

Edit: Ninjaed.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Disciple of Dispater (BoVD) is *the* crit-fishing PrC, since it doubles (at 4th) and then triples (at 8th) your crit range, and explicitly stacks with Keen. Combine with Lightning Mace (CW) and a pair of Aptitude kukri (ToB) and you get a range of something like 8-20/x2 with an extra attack every time you threaten.

As for feats... there's a guide to that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400603-Best-Feats-of-3-5).

[AnimeTheCat]

Just out of curiosity @King_of_Knowhere, is there a specific idea you're looking at? The problem with the term "Good" is that it's subjective rather than objective.

What I mean by that is that how "good" something is is relative to the overal power level of the game, the party composition, and the primary types of enemies being faced in the game. Take, for example, a game where a party consists of an archetypal Healer, Tank, Rogue, Blaster that are facing primarily medium and small humanoid opponents without DR, SR, or energy resistance and are participating in a straight AC vs BAB grind/dungeon crawl with some more challenging opponents thrown in as "mini-bosses" of a sort. In such a party the I would consider the Weapon Focus line of feats pretty "Good" because they add to your numbers which makes your numbers better than your enemie's numbers. If you took the same party, but they all decided to play Exalted characters bent on the redemption of all evil, feats like Improved Disarm/Sunder become far better than they would normally be considered, as they allow for a more passive style of combat.

So, what are you looking for when you as for "Good" feats for a warrior? Is there an image you have for the character, or is this simply a conversation starter?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, power attack -> leap attack are good. Mounted combat + spirited charge plus a cool mount can be fun (I like a halfling riding an rebuked air elemental via planer touchstone)

[Vizzerdrix]

Travel, and knowledge devotion are good. So is multi weapon fighting in the propper build.

[King of Nowhere]

Just out of curiosity @King_of_Knowhere, is there a specific idea you're looking at? The problem with the term "Good" is that it's subjective rather than objective.


good question, as i realize I wasn't clearly enough in the first post.
No, I'm not looking at anything very specific. I'm mostly looking for a large variety of feats that can be used, so that maybe i'll find the inspiration there. I'm not looking for anything particularly powerful, as most high-end optimization tricks don't work at my table (everyone agrees; we don't want to escalate the game into an arms race between dm and players), so most "best feats" or "best optimization" guides fail for me.
I am actually considering building one of my antagonists; a warrior fanatically devoted to nerull and adept at fighting with his holy weapon, the schyte. he agreed with the church of nerull to commit suicide so that he won't get old and they would always be able to raise him in time of need - the main vault of nerull always contains his equipment and a scroll of true resurrection.
with that build stacking crits seems a good choice, but he'll be already getting crits 16-20/*6 (both from the prc and from his schyte, a strong artifact weapon) and I feel going farther would be cheesy. So I'll have a lot of feats to pick. I'll certainly go for (greater) weapon focus and specialization, because I want this guy to hit at least as hard as the party barbarian, and probably iron will and greater fortitude, because I'd like this guy to not be disabled by a single spell. But I still have several empty slots, and I'm just open to ideas.

So I'd just like to have a nice feat selection and look for somthing that interests me.

[DeTess]

good question, as i realize I wasn't clearly enough in the first post.
No, I'm not looking at anything very specific. I'm mostly looking for a large variety of feats that can be used, so that maybe i'll find the inspiration there. I'm not looking for anything particularly powerful, as most high-end optimization tricks don't work at my table (everyone agrees; we don't want to escalate the game into an arms race between dm and players), so most "best feats" or "best optimization" guides fail for me.
I am actually considering building one of my antagonists; a warrior fanatically devoted to nerull and adept at fighting with his holy weapon, the schyte. he agreed with the church of nerull to commit suicide so that he won't get old and they would always be able to raise him in time of need - the main vault of nerull always contains his equipment and a scroll of true resurrection.
with that build stacking crits seems a good choice, but he'll be already getting crits 16-20/*6 (both from the prc and from his schyte, a strong artifact weapon) and I feel going farther would be cheesy. So I'll have a lot of feats to pick. I'll certainly go for (greater) weapon focus and specialization, because I want this guy to hit at least as hard as the party barbarian, and probably iron will and greater fortitude, because I'd like this guy to not be disabled by a single spell. But I still have several empty slots, and I'm just open to ideas.

So I'd just like to have a nice feat selection and look for somthing that interests me.

One feat-chain that I'm currently running on a Warblade is the Elusive target chain. You need Dodge and mobility as pre-reqs, which is bad, but it gives lots of nice defensive abilities. You don't take power-attack damage, and any Pc's trying to be smart by flanking you will end up eating some of their team-mates attacks.

[Thurbane]

Outside of ToB, the best sources of feats for melee types are (IMHO) PHB2 and CW.

[Zaq]

There's always the good old-fashioned trip package. Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Knock-Down, EWP: Spiked Chain and/or another source of reach, and so on.

It can get a little repetitive, but almost all non-ToB melee does.

[Seharvepernfan]

power attack, cleave, great cleave, improved bull rush, improved unarmed strike, improved grapple, point blank shot, precise shot, improved precise shot, quick draw, combat reflexes, exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain), blind-fight, combat expertise, improved trip

[AnimeTheCat]

good question, as i realize I wasn't clearly enough in the first post.
No, I'm not looking at anything very specific. I'm mostly looking for a large variety of feats that can be used, so that maybe i'll find the inspiration there. I'm not looking for anything particularly powerful, as most high-end optimization tricks don't work at my table (everyone agrees; we don't want to escalate the game into an arms race between dm and players), so most "best feats" or "best optimization" guides fail for me.
I am actually considering building one of my antagonists; a warrior fanatically devoted to nerull and adept at fighting with his holy weapon, the schyte. he agreed with the church of nerull to commit suicide so that he won't get old and they would always be able to raise him in time of need - the main vault of nerull always contains his equipment and a scroll of true resurrection.
with that build stacking crits seems a good choice, but he'll be already getting crits 16-20/*6 (both from the prc and from his schyte, a strong artifact weapon) and I feel going farther would be cheesy. So I'll have a lot of feats to pick. I'll certainly go for (greater) weapon focus and specialization, because I want this guy to hit at least as hard as the party barbarian, and probably iron will and greater fortitude, because I'd like this guy to not be disabled by a single spell. But I still have several empty slots, and I'm just open to ideas.

So I'd just like to have a nice feat selection and look for somthing that interests me.

I like Randuir's idea for the Elusive Target feat because it negates Ubercharging against you, so there's that that would certainly throw a monkey wrench in a plan somewhere. To give you a little bit of advantage against Spellcasters (well... advantage in the sense that you're better prepared than other martial characters) you can take a level or two in Occult Slayer. It's not much, but it would grant you +1 to saves vs spells, +1d6 damage vs spellcasters, and a minor spell turning ability. If, as you say, most high end optimization tricks don't work, you could feasibly get away with only those two levels and leaving it there. If you feel like the spell turning ability wouldn't see any effective use, one level is still pretty nice for the increase to saves and bonsu damage against any creature with spellcasting or spell like abilities.

Further, you could be a dwarf and pick up +1 to saves vs spells and spell like abilities from the race netting you a +2 across the board vs spellcasters. Couple that with Elusive target and you'll be fairly resilient against a moderately powerful party.

Something else to think about it outside of just this one character. A single NPC will never truly be able to challenge the party, especially if they don't have any means of giving themselves extra actions. The party will simply have the benefit of action economy against him/her. You can either, take actions away from the party (tripping, disarming, nausiating, etc), Get more actions (haste, celerity, etc), or have allies. The easiest one is having allies who synergize with you. This specific character isn't the tripper/grappler, but your buddy is. They are quick, go fast in the initiative, and lock down your target, then you come in and Coup de Gras them with you x6 crit multiplier. Instead of just one enemy, it's the dynamic tag team duo of Nerull. Their mission is to seek out those who have cheated death and deliver them to the feet of their master. Otherwise, to nausiate or daze the target, you'll likely need different feats or you'll be reduced to using mildly effective alchemical items. Getting more actions on a non-magical character is going to be.... really hard... if not impossible. I'm not currently aware of any methods, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

[King of Nowhere]

A bit of a tangent here, but is power attack all that relevant in fights between high level characters? because in my experience so far, everyone is so packed up with defensive items that there really isn't much room for power attacking. high level melee types tend to have AC equal or slightly lower than their hit bonus; they already have a chance of failure on the first attack as it is.
One of my current "miniarc boss" for example has AC 44 (+13 full plate +5, +7 large animated shield, +5 from amulet of natural armor +5, +5 from ring of protection +5, +3 from dex (thanks to gloves of dexterity), +1 from ioun stone) while having "only" +37 to hit (+19 BAB, +11 STR (starting at 18 and buffed with wish three times), +5 sword, +1 weapon focus, +1 ioun stone). +39 while raging as he dipped into barbarian. So this guy already needs a 5 to hit himself, and deals 2d6+19 damage. A little power attack significantly increases the miss chance without adding much damage, and a lot of power attack makes missing too easy. Leap attack may turn statistical average on your side when you charge in the first round, but not by much anyway. So power attack turns useful when fighting big monsters with low AC and tons of hp, not other adventurers.

Of course the math changes if you fill yourself to burst with buff spells, but you can't always have all the buffs cast before engaging. Statistially, in every ambush half the participants are unprepared.

So, what is it I am missing in power attack? Is it because I run a high magic world and everyone has defensive gear above their wbl? Or is there something I am not considering?

P.S. While I am right now looking for a specific guy, I'll certainly want to build more high level fighters in the futures, so really I am just looking for interesting splatbooks.

[DeTess]

So, what is it I am missing in power attack? Is it because I run a high magic world and everyone has defensive gear above their wbl? Or is there something I am not considering?



You're missing the Shocktrooper feat from Complete warrior. It allows you to take the Power attack penalty on your AC instead of your BaB.

[King of Nowhere]

You're missing the Shocktrooper feat from Complete warrior. It allows you to take the Power attack penalty on your AC instead of your BaB.

Found it, only when charging. then with that and leap attack you can get a +60 to damage at the cost of -20 to AC, so you'll deal some 90 damage in the attack. Not enough to fell your foe. The next round, since your AC is lowered,he will make a full attack with power attack 20 and destroy you.
So I guess you need some kind of pounce ability. You charge, power attack-leap attack and make a full attack, and you generally kill your foe in the first round. you are dead otherwise. I guess that's the basic ubercharger build. Good to know for the future, but I can't unleash that on my players.

[Eldariel]

Found it, only when charging. then with that and leap attack you can get a +60 to damage at the cost of -20 to AC, so you'll deal some 90 damage in the attack. Not enough to fell your foe. The next round, since your AC is lowered,he will make a full attack with power attack 20 and destroy you.
So I guess you need some kind of pounce ability. You charge, power attack-leap attack and make a full attack, and you generally kill your foe in the first round. you are dead otherwise. I guess that's the basic ubercharger build. Good to know for the future, but I can't unleash that on my players.

Well, if your enemy is sword & board, TWF, natural attacker or whatever, their full attack PA isn't that scary. Or if you also have Elusive Target. You can actually just tank a melee type with Elusive Target, Starmantle Cloak [Book of Exalted Deeds], ability to reliably make DC 15 Reflex-save (e.g. Pride-domain granted power and +13 Ref suffices to only fail it 1/400 times; for which you can use reroll items like Luckblades or Mantle of Second Chances) and even just 5 DR (Angelskin Cloak or Barbarian levels or whatever). This suffices against the Tarrasque so you can pretty safely dump AC.

Also, other ways to improve charge work; Pounce is not necessary. Valorous weapon [Unapproachable East], Headlong Rush feat [Races of Faerun], mounted charge (PHB, particularly Spirited Charge with a two-handed Lance), etc. enable you to make rather scary charges. Core only Eldritch Knight with Spirited Charge can PA for 16 and further triple that for 96 bonus damage. With decent bases (you have Shapechange & al.) you can one-shot a Balor. Cleric with Divine Power does even more so.

That said, you can also use other ways to improve your to hit. Trip an enemy, that's +4 to hit. Flank, +2 to hit. High ground, +1 to hit. Buff spells, +lots to hit. Wraithstrike [SC], all attacks as touch attack for a round. Brilliant Energy weapon, ignore armor. Et cetera. Power Attack is good at all points as long as you maximize your to hit or bypass parts of enemy AC.


Now then, good feats; the tactical feats in various books (CW ones particular) add a lot of interesting options but aren't overtly powerful. Same with weapon style feats. Check the thread about tactical/weapon style feats on the frontpage for more details. With all the prereqs, those make up for a good portion of a build and combine nicely with various other options (Dungeoncrasher [Dungeonscape] for Shock Trooper, for instance).

Also AoO builds; see Jack B. Quick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17031211&postcount=30) and Gatling Chain Gun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17031191&postcount=29).

[Hal0Badger]

If you have Wisdom Combat Focus=>Combat Stability=>Combat Vigor chain can be nice for bonuses against maneuvers, will saves and grants you a fast healing 4 for 12 rounds.

Shock Trooper => Improved Trip allows a decent option as well.

Elusive Target is a nice defensive feat.

These are not top-notch options but also not mentioned above. Might give you a new idea-perspective.