Critique my Forest Gnome Rogue/Arcane Trickster

[Havlock]

We're starting a 5e campaign and I've got plenty of gaming experience.. Was playing D&D back when it was just Basic D&D but have zero experience with 5e so I'm looking for input and advise on my character build.

I slotted into the rogue/thief position in the party (which I'm happy about) and was immediately intrigued by the AT. Seems the most versatile option with loads of shenanigans fun.

My goal with the build is not to do the most damage in combat but rather be the annoying gnat that distracts and confuses the enemy.

Melee build (rapier mostly). Ranged attacks are OK but not the focus. No shield. Not tanky but fast and difficult to pin down. With plenty of tricks to cause chaos and fun. That's the main goal: chaos and fun.

We're starting as lvl 5. Here's my plan .. Plz let me know if I'm missing the boat or ignoring something of great potential.

Stats (after one ASI for +2 dex):
Str 8
Dex 18
Con 14
Wis 12
Int 15
Chr 10

Cantrips:
Minor Illusion (from race)
Mage hand
Prestidigitation
Booming Blade

Lvl 1 spells:
Tasha's good joke
Disguise self
Silent Image
Find Familiar

Expertise in stealth and perception with a wide range of "rogue" skills and charlatan as a background.

Down the road I'm contemplating dipping a few levels in fighter (battle master) for added combat fun and after maxing dex, eyeing these feats: aware, .lucky, mobile and sentinel.

Would love to hear your thoughts!

[Chugger]

Very close to my AT - good choices. Use the owl as your familiar pet because it's the best - don't let anyone tell you "ew everyone does an owl" - there's a reason for this. Darkvision, stealth, and flyby are what I remember off the top of my head. You can park it hopefully outside area-attack spells that would kill it - it zooms by to give you advantage on your attack but can't be AoO'd cuz of "flyby" - and it's an awesome scout (and messenger - it can drop a note for you).

Tasha's is your best control spell after lvl 3 or so - sleep loses effectiveness very quickly in 5e. (until you get lvl 2 spells, a ways off)

Okay, booming blade vs green flame blade. I don't like bb cuz my dms (I'm in AL) never ever ever let it go off. Or if they do it's because it doesn't matter - fight is ending anyway. Everything meta-knows what bb is and instead of moving pulls out its xbow and shoots or casts spells. Okay maybe they have beasts trigger bb, but that's about it. But if I bb'd a beast and used cunning action to disengage away from it - invariably some other player came up and engaged it in melee after my turn - cuz understanding bb is hard (no really, it is - shouldn't be but is). Monsters are often next to each other, however, so gfb often works. Both are best, really. But bb often will not go off. So yeah you get the 1d8 after lvl 5 and it is good if fighting things that resist fire. Prestig is a fun spell but has almost zero practical use. At some point you get another cantrip - consider gfb.

Unless you go mainly short bow or hand xbow. Look into it. A lot safer that way. Hey you can do both. Actually you kind of need to be ready to missile or melee. Depending on what you face.

But your choices are solid and will serve you well. Unless you want to charm things - but ... it doesn't work very well in 5e. Oh, at times Message cantrip can be darn handy - but prestig is tons of fun and good for role playing. Not a deal breaker tho. The main thing is LAND YOUR SNEAK ATTACK EVERY ROUND. Use the owl to make sure you get advantage - sometimes a rogue has trouble hiding - and it is very hard with many dms to sneak up on someone to melee them. Much easier to hide far away and shoot. But owl fixes this. Xbow Master = second chance to sneak attack if an ally is next to your target. If your owl-advantaged first shot misses, and sometimes it will, you can use this feat to fire a bonus action shot with a hand xbow - and if it lands you get to roll sneak attack dice. Good luck. (edit, consider xbow master after doing dx 20 - you get asi on lvl 8, 10 and 12 - 10 or 12 would be good.)

[Havlock]

Thx Chugger ... I'll look at xbow master but still prefer to be that annoying thing bouncing in and out of melee that constantly frustrates the baddies. Lots of good feats to consider and I'll probably have a long time before I pick any. We'll see how my playstyle pans out over a few levels.

It was a toss up between BB and GFB.. In the end though the battlefield control of BB made the difference for me. Damage isn't as good as GFB but that's secondary to messing with the baddies.

Owl familiar sounds awesome. Definitely be checking that out.

Thanks!

[Greywander]

Okay, booming blade vs green flame blade. I don't like bb cuz my dms (I'm in AL) never ever ever let it go off. Or if they do it's because it doesn't matter - fight is ending anyway. Everything meta-knows what bb is and instead of moving pulls out its xbow and shoots or casts spells.
This, in my mind, is Booming Blade working as intended. You can either view BB as a damage cantrip or a control cantrip, and I see more value in it as a control cantrip. As such, I actually don't want the target to move and take the extra damage, the whole point is to force them to use less optimal ranged attacks. BB also works well to prevent a target from fleeing. It's all about battlefield control, and convincing a target to stand still has huge value.


But if I bb'd a beast and used cunning action to disengage away from it - invariably some other player came up and engaged it in melee after my turn - cuz understanding bb is hard (no really, it is - shouldn't be but is).
This isn't a fault with the spell, it's a fault with your party members, or your choice of targets. You need to let your party know ahead of time what you can do and incorporate it into your battle plans.


eyeing these feats: aware, .lucky, mobile and sentinel.

Lucky and Alert are always good for almost any build.

I think Mobile would also suit your intended playstyle very well. It increases your speed by 10 feet (giving you an effective speed of 80 feet if you Dash), you aren't slowed by difficult terrain if you Dash (which, as a rogue, you can do as a bonus action), and any creature you make a melee attack against can't take opportunity attacks against you, even if you miss (so you don't need to Disengage, meaning you can Dash instead).

You can stand 40 feet away from a creature (with many creatures having a speed of only 30 feet), and be able to run up, attack, and dash away to stay 40 feet away. They would have to Dash in order to close to melee range, meaning they probably won't be able to attack you on that turn. You can then attack them and move up to 80 feet move away, still without needing to Disengage.

Sentinel can be a way to get in an extra sneak attack off-turn, but it paints a big target on you. As a squishy rogue, you don't really want to encourage enemies to attack you. You also don't want to end your turn within 5 feet of an enemy if you can help it. Sentinel would be great for the fighter, paladin, or barbarian; let the enemy stick to them or get punished if they try to move away, and you can just dart in, attack, and dart out. Or, if you must stay in melee, enemies get punished for attacking you instead of the tank. In short, you're probably better off leaving Sentinel for the tank of the group.

[Havlock]

Well my base speed is only 25 so mobile gets me a 70f dash which makes it trickier to stay out of melee. And the DM is planning to use a game board and pay close attention to positioning in combat...My thinking with sentinel was to use it as a last resort.. For those times when I can't out distance or hide. If I take sentinel it'll be last on the list. I'd prefer something more defensive but nothing jumps out at me... if not sentinel than any recommendations? Could just +2 int but yawn.

Either way thanks for all the feedback. Really helpful tips guys!

[furryblueelf]

If you want annoying bounce in and out of combat, perhaps consider the Swashbuckler as well. It excels at just that.

[Chugger]

Greywander is talking more about how BB "should" work, perhaps in a perfect world.

I'm talking about how I've observed it actually working (at AL) where I can't really shout at players for messing it up (I'll get kicked out) and DMs - some of them - meta away. So I don't really think it's working as intended. The ultimate control is monsters dying - so I tend to use GFB. I'm just trying to point out that a lot of us pick BB and discover it almost never works as we wanted it to.

(I would think most monsters have not had bb cast on them and don't know what it is - or they're not smart and don't recognize when it's cast on them - and they'd move at least once - and THEN after learning what it is maybe not move - but most dms I know meta it and do not properly, imho, role play monsters - each monster is a piece of their ego and makes almost all choices w/ unrealistic knowledge)

Or the monster moves - eats (roll dice)...five pts damage - and goes over and plasters the wiz, anyway.

Anyway, your prob is solved when you lvl up and get a new cantrip - and can take both.

[Diebo]

For starting stats, I would probably switch CON and INT, in case you decide to go with resilient CON down the road. Evasion doesn't help against CON saves, and CON saves are pretty common. I'd probably also swap WIS and CHR, assuming you pick up at least one conversation skill (Deception seems appropriate). You have expertise in Perception already, and as a gnome you have advantage on WIS saves. Rogues don't always make the wisest decisions, particularly pranksters; having a lower WIS is appropriate. For RP reasons, I'd even be inclined to switch the 10 and 8 STR and WIS (gnome cunning gives you extra leeway, you can afford to go low).

With an owl familiar and only one attack (due to using booming blade or GFB), you should almost always have advantage. That gives you a little bit of flexibility in stats, especially starting off with a 16 in DEX. I would actually take mobile at level 4. 16 DEX is just FINE, your damage is coming from sneak attack and booming blade. You'll be able to use Dash or Hide as a bonus action, and will almost never have to use Disengage. With Dash and mobile, you can move 70, and difficult terrain doesn't cost you extra movement, so you can even move through your party member's spaces quickly. If the creature is large, you can even dash through the other party member's space, under the legs of the opponent, stab the opponent with booming blade, and continue running. And at level 8, you can take reduce/enlarge, and reduce yourself so you can run through just about everyone (and be light enough for your owl to easily carry!).

I'd probably stick with AT at least through 7 to get evasion and level 2 spells, then 8 for the ASI (probably +2 DEX) and reduce/enlarge. Level 9 gives another sneak attack die and magical ambush, and level 10 gives another ASI (I'd think about skilled or +2 DEX). 11 Gives reliable talent (can't roll below 10 on any skill check), which would be good incentive to take Skilled at 11 (pick up 3 skills that you are always going to be decent at) or some other feat.

If you are using a combat mat, mobile on a small rogue is a lot of fun. You won't want to wait for it.

[ToastyTobasco]

Hey! I also just started an AT. I do like your choices there, if you swap Presdigitation with Message, we pretty much have the same loadout. Stats are a little different with my High Elf. Had a bit of fun last night for my first game with him but couldnt really pull any shenanigans.

My only issue is my DM is giving me grief over my familiar Helping in combat as "Find Familiar" doesnt allow attacks and he wants us to describe how it will help within its action. (God forbid I ever play a Mastermind with him, might have an aneurysm)

I dont plan on putting the owl in combat often, just occasionally to distract for an ally's ranged attacks as I want to melee more often. One thing I plan to do after 9 is MC into Divination wizard to add to my spells but more importantly have some portent dice to throw monkey wrenches around and then hop back to AT for the rest or at least the ASI.


Anyway, it looks good. Lucky is a hell of a feat, Alert is nice but not totally necesary unless you want to just go first every time =P (sometimes you want to wait for an ally to make a move for SA). Mobile would be a really good choice (not 100% necessary but can really add to hit and run tactics) Sentinel would be perfect for Rogues if you could do the speed to 0 optional. It kind of paints a glowing target on yourself when you keep stopping baddies next to you or getting targeted instead of your allies, denying that opportunity attack. Size differences can make for some really interesting interactions or tactics. You might get into areas that others cant. Booming Blade looks to be a good choice as you can view it as an attack cantrip or a mild CC. I prefer to see it as CC, which for a cantrip, is AWESOME. The only thing I dont like about AT is that your spell DC is gonna be kinda crap unless you boost nothing but INT to 20 on ASI's, or you forgo spells with saves.