Sorcerer Master of Animate Objects and Planar Binding

[RoboEmperor]

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[Anthrowhale]

A few comments:
1) The otherworldly feat provides access to other LA+0 outsiders (deep imaskari, elf, or ??). It's Faerun specific and 1st level only, but it could make your progression more linear.
2) There are also several other ways to avoid the need for a spellbook.
-Eidetic wizard allows you to avoid having a spellbook. This is dragon magazine content, but it may be worth mentioning.
-Getting spontaneous spells (via the spontaneous divination ACF?) allows you to take Versatile Spellcaster which (apparently) applies lifts this to being able to cast all wizard spells known.
-There are certain high level techniques (see Clockwork Wizard) which mean that a wizard may never need to look at their spellbooks after writing spells into them.
-Uncanny Forethought is a level 1 method allowing a wizard to spontaneously cast spells.
3) Maho-Tsukai can potentially upgrade sorcerer spell access as well as the more traditional dragonwrought kobold.

[Troacctid]

Is it really setting-independent if it's relying on being a type of ghost that only exists in the Ghostwalk setting?


A few comments:
1) The otherworldly feat provides access to other LA+0 outsiders (deep imaskari, elf, or ??). It's Faerun specific and 1st level only, but it could make your progression more linear.
Recaster requires you to be a changeling, though.

[Anthrowhale]

I prefer to be an unknown entity though instead of a famous god blessed child that everyone knows about.

I don't believe otherworldly requires you to always be famous if you happen to come from the right region as per PGtF.


Uncanny Forethought has an int based daily limit right?

Yes.


I'll give Maho-Tsukai a reading, but as Troacctid said Recaster needs me to be a changeling so I'm not very flexible on the race front so no dragonwrought kobold.

Mechanically, I think you can unlock from changeling via Archivist/Maho-tsukai although the process of finding the appropriate divine spells to place in your prayerbook so they become on-list and knowable via Maho-Tsukai may not be what you are looking for. The good news w.r.t. Maho-Tsukai is that it provides a method to deal with all material and focus components.

[Troacctid]

My line of thinking is...
1. We're in Ghostwalk. In which case I don't need Persuade to Manifest and Craft Wondrous Item.
2. We're not in Ghostwalk, in which case the spell Persuade to Manifest should allow me to turn into a ghost, because the spell immediately and directly drags my soul to the ethereal plane and lets me manifest as the ghostwalk ghost at a +10 bonus, after all, in Eberron "If it exists in d&d it has a place for it in Eberron". So the Ghost Template has a place in Eberron if acquired via spells like Proper State, Persuade to Manifest, or Raise Ghost. That's my line of thinking anyways, and if it's do-able in Eberron it's do-able in any setting.
3. Or celestial attended birth for otherworldly, but I don't like this fluff >.<, but it could be worse.

I mean every PC is capable of coming back as an Undead ghost from MM, so I don't see why they can't come back as the ghostwalk ghost with the help of spells in every setting. Hell I'd argue you could be a ghostwalk ghost in every setting without spells since it's the same soul gathering the same ectoplasm. Just not as easily as Ghostwalk since not everyone comes back as a MM ghost when they die.
When inserted into a different setting, Ghostwalk-style ghosts are supposed to be a localized phenomenon around the city of Manifest. Everywhere else in the world outside of that zone, death does not work that way. For example, if you're in the Forgotten Realms, it suggests placing Manifest in the remote region of Maztica. That's quite a detour if your campaign's main plot takes place in the Sword Coast. And that assumes that the DM is actually going to work it into the setting in the first place. It is a break from canon, after all.

[Troacctid]

I'm not arguing whether PCs dying and coming back as ghostwalk ghosts is violating the setting lore, because it most definitely is. I'm saying that a PC that learns the ghostwalk spells on their own should be able to use them to acquire the ghostwalk ghost template without surgically implanting the city of Manifest somewhere.

Think of it like spell researching a custom spell that creates a weaker ghost than the MM ghost. That spell should be identical to Raise Ghost, Proper State, or Persuade to Manifest, and the weaker ghost template should be identical to the ghostwalk ghost template. This isn't what I'm saying exactly, but should give you a good idea of how I view the situation.

and unrelated to that argument... my opinion is that if a creature is capable of becoming a MM ghost, there's no reason he can't also comeback as a gw ghost.
The spells are part of the Ghostwalk setting too. From the intro to the spells section: "A number of new domains, spells, and magic items exist in the Ghostwalk campaign setting."

I'm not saying it couldn't work in other settings with adaptation. I'm just saying it's definitely not independent of the setting.

[magicalmagicman]

Fair enough. I mean this is true for all the books right? Even the setting neutral books need to be adapted into the setting.

This is true. Setting Neutral books like Races of Destiny needs to have the races like Illumians adapted into the setting if they are to exist at all.

However I think you and Troacctid are misunderstanding each other. Troacctid is saying your build is dependent of the ghostwalk setting like an artificer is dependent on the eberron campaign setting regardless of where the campaign is actually taking place, and you're saying your sorcerer is functional in all settings because unlike your cleric build which falls apart in forgotten realms setting, none of the settings have anything that kills your sorcerer build.

[magicalmagicman]

If you truly want to be setting independent without any adaptations or setting specific material, simply go Neraphim and Wyrm Wizard.

Neraphims have +2 natural armor which goes well with your early game strategy and has no downside whatsoever.
If you go wyrm wizard you have to give up Snowsong, but that's it.

I know you said you hate Neraphims and Wyrm Wizard, but I'm just showing you that your build is in fact setting independent and the setting dependent stuff you're using is for nonpowergaming roleplay reasons which might help your case if you're trying to persuade a DM to allow Champions of Valor or Ghostwalk into his game.

Also, you can adapt the Wyrm Wizard to work with Infernals instead of Dragons. It's in the adaptation notes of Wyrm Wizard. Call yourself the Infernal Wizard and study with a lesser planar bound devil for Surge of Fortune. And this is, again, for roleplay reasons and not powergaming reasons.

[magicalmagicman]

Sorcerers are fun right? Unlike wizards you learn spells that are multipurpose and useful throughout the entire game instead of cherry picking situational spells that only work in that enviornment/encounter/level-range.

I have never seen anyone use Babau slime before and have it synergize with Investiture of the Orthon, which is chosen over Dimensional Anchor for multipurpose reasons.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm not following the babau slime strategy. The retributive effect only works on-hit (i.e. "strike") and only for natural weapon/touch/unarmed attacks. You are highly vulnerable to criticals, creatures which simply can afford the hp loss, and creatures with weapons. This seems like a much more limited strategy than power word pain.

[magicalmagicman]

I'm not following the babau slime strategy. The retributive effect only works on-hit (i.e. "strike") and only for natural weapon/touch/unarmed attacks. You are highly vulnerable to criticals, creatures which simply can afford the hp loss, and creatures with weapons. This seems like a much more limited strategy than power word pain.

He still has power word pain. He just swapped out Swift Expeditious Retreat for Babau Slime, Nerveskitter for Mage Armor, and delayed Benign Transposition from 3 to 5 in favor of earlier mage armor. Note that he says he's only vulnerable to Undead with Manufactured Weapons which means he's still Power Word Paining everything.

I think its a nice strategy because it lets him sort of weaponize his high AC strategy and gives creatures a reason not to attack his robot given that it only has 12 AC.

edit: Assuming "strike" includes attacks that don't successfully deal damage. Seeing how Babau Slime coats the creature and his equipment and armor in the slime, I think that even an attack blocked by a shield would deal 1d8 damage.

[magicalmagicman]

You should try to find a way to add Enlarge Person in there for the increased grapple. But I do see you're out of room, and Shield does seem like a better option than Enlarge Person since you're grappling for damage rather than to actually grapple.

[Troacctid]

You could try for a Permanent Enlarge Person. It's not too expensive with spellcasting services.

...Wait, you're not a humanoid, so you're not a valid target, right?

[magicalmagicman]

I think you should grab magic missile at 3 and Babau Slime at 5 if you're no longer using armor. Magic Missile works on undead and can be used to disrupt spellcasters by readying it

Normally one would go grease or benign transposition, but horses with their atrocious to hit, I don't think grease would increase their damage output more than 2d4+2.

You're grabbing Babau Slime because it's a 1st level spell that works on your gargantuan animated object right? So grab it later. Level 3 is when magic missile starts to be worth their cost in spell slots. The damage a magic missile deals should be equal or greater than Babau Slime could achieve on a horse.

[Endarire]

A downside of summoned creatures is that they normally immediately stop existing at 0HP. (Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning).) Are you severing summoned horse limbs without killing it? If so, that may work.

How are you casting spell-like abilities of your assumed form? Planar Shepherd is the only means of which I know that grants the (Sp) of the assumed form. The answer is planar binding for minions.

PS: Thanks for these build critique threads! Reading them (including replies) has been inspirational as to what is possible and perhaps even enjoyable in D&D 3.5!

PPS: OP, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?557527-What-s-your-experience-with-playing-an-ahead-of-the-curve-casting-Kobold-Sorcerer&p=23031508#post23031508) may apply to you.

[Anthrowhale]

Summon Marked Homunculus seems like an excellent spell. One advantage of Power Word:Pain is that you can't run away from it.

One drawback of this build that I've come to recognize is the Outsider type: you can be bound with Planar Binding by anyone who knows your name. That's a potentially severe vulnerability.

[Troacctid]

Use an alias XD. If we're power gaming, make the name aoigjhewonbva or #%&*@!)$* (can't be pronounced and must be spelled). But yeah, it is a drawback. We all know just how helpless a planar bound creature is...
"Hello, fellow adventurers! It is a pleasure to join your party. My name is II1lIllI1IllI1lIlllIll11l1I! Nice to meet you."

[Anthrowhale]

Yeah, Power Word:Pain is a no-save-just-die spell. But after 4 castings you're done, while Summon Marked homunculus lasts the entire adventuring day! Four +7 crossbow attacks a round at level 1 for every encounter, you gotta admit, PWP doesn't even come close :P. Unless the encounters are spaced more than an hour apart.

That and it's minionmancy. If you haven't noticed, I am a minionmancer! I rather have a automated turret following me around than a instant-kill spell.

The retributive AoE on death is also quite potent since most creatures melee.

The hour duration is probably the biggest drawback at level 1---that may not fly in some campaigns.

[Anthrowhale]

Why wouldn't it fly in some campaigns?

I just meant "campaigns with an 8+ hour adventuring day".

This is challenging for a level 1 sorcerer anyways, but I could imagine a sorcerer with a crossbow and a Wild Cohort saving PWP for particularly challenging opponents working out.

[magicalmagicman]

Why would the outsiders let you mindrape them after a break enchantment? If they were loyal to you as lawful neutral then they'd be disloyal to you as chaotic evil. Memories don't matter. People divorce their wives no matter how many good memories they have. So after a break enchantment they'd have second thoughts and ditch you.

[magicalmagicman]

Have the Arbalesters ride your party members.

[Endarire]

Tenser's floating disc via scroll, wand, or use-activated/continual item for arbalesters?